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View Full Version : Cannon Balls, Monsters and Charmed Shield.



Brotheroracle
07-11-2013, 03:22
So you have a hero/lord on a monster with charmed shield getting hit with a cannon ball... if you discount the hit on your hero/lord first using a charmed shield does the monster still get hit?

Hero/Lord models on monsters follow all the rules for monsters and characters.

A Bouncing cannon ball hits both parts of the model.

If a monster is hit but not killed by a cannon ball it "stops".

Does not specify the order in which you resolve the hits and cannon balls have a "path".

Hero/Lord discounts the hit by rolling a 2+ with a charmed shield.

Hero/lord was hit by cannonball, follows the rules for monsters and was not slain, therefor the mount does not suffer a hit.

Does it work like this?

chaospantz
07-11-2013, 04:49
I dont think so. I dont have my rule book handy but I think when a cannon ball or other template hits a character riding a monster then it counts as 2 seperate hits occuring at the same time, one on the monster and one on the character. Charmed shield is going to cancle the one on the character but the one on the monster is going to stand. As far as I'm awaire their is no character hit then monster hit, they both count as being hit at the same time. Same as if someone shot a bunch of arrows at them. After you randomise the hits against them both they count as being hit at the same time by the same shooting attack.

Blkc57
07-11-2013, 05:44
The way it works is when a model composed of character on a monstrous mount is hit, they both suffer a hit as individual parts. This occurs at the same time. Thus while the bulk of a dragon may stop a cannon ball from hitting models behind him, the character as part of the combined model is still hit, and vice versa. So if a hero stops a cannon ball with his charmed shield he can't save the dragon he is riding, it still gets hit since it is still part of the original combined model hit. Its all about those damn magical ricochets from cannon balls, brother. They put Kennedy's magic bullet to shame.

forseer of fates
07-11-2013, 07:36
I do believe the charm shield has no effect on attacks that do not roll to hit such as cannon balls:(

Evil Hypnotist
07-11-2013, 08:12
I do believe the charm shield has no effect on attacks that do not roll to hit such as cannon balls:(

I'm afraid you are wrong here. While cannons do not roll on their operator's ballistic skill the cannonball still constitutes a 'hit' if, during the course of the cannonball's bounce, you touch a model. If that model carries the Charmed Shield then they get the save versus that 'hit' and, if that save is successful, the cannonball stops in it's tracks.

Spiney Norman
07-11-2013, 08:12
I do believe the charm shield has no effect on attacks that do not roll to hit such as cannon balls:(

Based on what? There's nothing to suggest that it only works against a roll to hit and not against automatic hits such as cannon balls, magic missiles or templates.

bigbiggles
07-11-2013, 09:29
It would be a pretty terrible shield if it did not work on cannons/war machines

Roshan
07-11-2013, 09:58
It would be a pretty terrible shield if it did not work on cannons/war machines

Yeah, i mean......you'll never get that 5 points back anywhere :P

Roshan
07-11-2013, 10:08
Based on what? There's nothing to suggest that it only works against a roll to hit and not against automatic hits such as cannon balls, magic missiles or templates.

I think people look at the FAQ and perhaps Misunderstand

Q: If a character equipped with the Charmed Shield sufers a
Wound from an attack that doesn’t specifically cause hits (such as
from the Lore of Death’s Spirit Leech, or a Tomb Banshee’s
Ghostly Howl), can he still attempt to discount the first Wound
from such an attack on a 2+? (Reference)
A: No. The Charmed Shield only works against attacks
that cause hits.

This was intended to cover certain rules that didnt mention hits at all - they draw the conclusion that a cannon doesnt specifically roll to it therefore is exempt.
We all know how this works, how its intended. but fact remains that whilst it may be slightly vague people will argue against it ( Im looking at you Dark elf players and the cauldron rules ) Thats human nature.

My own point of reference is that in an Official GW torunament in the UK was that the charmed shield did NOT work against cannons, however that is by no means any kind of definative answer. Just a ruling at that time.

thesoundofmusica
07-11-2013, 12:51
Well cannonballs do cause hits. The rules for cannonballs mention "hit" 8 times one of which is a paragraph header in bold saying "WHO IS HIT?". Reading the rules for cannonballs, charmed shield and the FAQ I dont see how anyone could claim otherwise apart from a strange desire to be "that guy". Sometimes "that guy" is a TO.

mypantsarefree3
10-11-2013, 18:52
The cannon ball hits both models simultaneously. The charmed shield can protect the rider but never the beast. Pretty simple. Anyone arguing against using the shield against cannons obviously has deep resentment toward WoC daemon princes that has seepened into their psyche and affecting any rules discussion whose results could possibly lower the high defense of a prince ;)

bigbiggles
11-11-2013, 03:17
Being a daemons player, I am quite envious of that daemon prince as well. And he's cheaper too, just to rub it in