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Romark
07-11-2013, 12:22
Good day,

I've been looking for an army to go in 40k for some time. I'm having difficulty because my 2 friends i play with are the Imperial Fists and Tyrannids. Now, really i have to go a 'baddie', but found it difficult to chose one (as i am a fan of fluff).

Finally i had an idea of having an army of Fallen Dark Angels. Now, my question. If i made an army of these, counting as Chaos Space Marines, how cannonistic would it be? My plan would be to buy normal CSM and a Dark Angels Chapter Upgrade kit to customize them. They would be touched by Slaanesh, as their jealousy of the Lion getting all the credit was a major factor in the fall, and i think Slaanesh is the God that could use this the most. Though, i don't think i'd use Noise Marines, stick to Plasma weapons.
That being said, i don't know how aware they are of the fall? Cypher seems to be aware of what happened and wants redemption. Would that extend to the rest of the Fallen? Or are they as much Chaos as the Sons of Horus?

Thanks in advance for any help!
Romark

Joewrightgm
07-11-2013, 13:53
The fallen are a mixed bag. Some still hold bitterness in their hearts for what happened, and some are full blown chaos marines.

Other have realized the error of their ways and have tried to reintegrate into society as leaders on backwater worlds. Yet others are mercenaries, chaos marines in all but name.

Your idea sounds cool, and within the scope of what's established, although I would limit your fallen to elites because even a half a dozen is a rare event that warrants an extreme response from any unforgiven chapter that catches wind of them.

Hope that helps!

Romark
07-11-2013, 14:03
Thanks, i had a quick look at similar articles and it seems that is the general consensus.
Maybe go for a undivided army and have an Elite unit, chosen, led by Cypher? I may do each unit as a different Legion... Preferably Loyalist one's that have lost people in the warp.

Any idea's of other loyal Legions that have lost people? I know Space Wolves went looking for Fulgrim. I'll do them as Chaos Marines to annoy my Wolf fan friends :D

Inquisitor Engel
07-11-2013, 14:29
Maybe go for a undivided army and have an Elite unit, chosen, led by Cypher?

That's the ticket!


Any idea's of other loyal Legions that have lost people? I know Space Wolves went looking for Fulgrim. I'll do them as Chaos Marines to annoy my Wolf fan friends :D

First Founding Legions are not known for falling to Chaos too frequently - which is why the Dark Angels are worth mentioning. There's always Red Corsairs.

Romark
07-11-2013, 14:43
First Founding Legions are not known for falling to Chaos too frequently - which is why the Dark Angels are worth mentioning. There's always Red Corsairs.

Haha well no, i was wandering more if there had been battles where some of an army had been lost in the warp, or ships had been lost as opposed to area's reported traitors. My in depth 40k knowledge isn't good enough to know anything like this.
If not, and i'm not expecting there to really be any, i could always just do a pocket of Heresy Legions in their Pre-Heresy paint-jobs. Give it the right feel anyways.

Inquisitor Engel
07-11-2013, 15:07
Haha well no, i was wandering more if there had been battles where some of an army had been lost in the warp, or ships had been lost as opposed to area's reported traitors. My in depth 40k knowledge isn't good enough to know anything like this.
If not, and i'm not expecting there to really be any, i could always just do a pocket of Heresy Legions in their Pre-Heresy paint-jobs. Give it the right feel anyways.

The Iron Hands and their successors have been known to have "schisms." ;)

Likewise you also have several Space Wolf Great Companies implied to have left the Chapter at various points in their history, so it's certainly not impossible. Would they go Chaos though? Ehhh tough to say.

Charistoph
07-11-2013, 15:14
Any idea's of other loyal Legions that have lost people?

There is the Red Corsairs story from the previous CSM book that had a few squads of Wolves were turned to join Huron in the middle of battle. There are Skyrar's Dark Wolves. There are a few other Chaos Warbands which indicate a strong connection to other Loyalist chapters as well. Soul Drinkers and Blood Angels have quite a few stories as well.

Heck, back when I was collecting Chaos Marines, I was planning on setting up some 'Thousand Son' units as captured Marines who were offered the choice of joining their Warband or being turned in to a puppet. They choose death and so were converted to dust puppets in their armor. I was thinking about painting them their squad's colors, but leaving the chapter badge as anyone's whom I managed to do a Sweeping Advance on. It would almost look like a twisted Deathwatch squad after a while....

You could even set up your squad's colors to be twisted versions of Fallen Marines in your local club, and your Fallen Dark Angel has collected in his journeys. Do Havoks and Obliterators as fallen Imperial Fists, Raptors and Talons as Raven Guard or Blood Angels, and the regular "Tactical" Marines could be Ultramarines and Dark Angel successors or Space Wolves. Your imagination is the only limit in this set up.



First Founding Legions are not known for falling to Chaos too frequently - which is why the Dark Angels are worth mentioning.

Not true, it happens enough. Not on the scale of an entire chapter, or even company scale, but squads and individuals, assuredly. Not saying this happened during the Heresy, though, they've had 10,000 years to lose people to Chaos since then.

Romark
07-11-2013, 21:18
There is the Red Corsairs story from the previous CSM book that had a few squads of Wolves were turned to join Huron in the middle of battle. There are Skyrar's Dark Wolves. There are a few other Chaos Warbands which indicate a strong connection to other Loyalist chapters as well. Soul Drinkers and Blood Angels have quite a few stories as well.

Heck, back when I was collecting Chaos Marines, I was planning on setting up some 'Thousand Son' units as captured Marines who were offered the choice of joining their Warband or being turned in to a puppet. They choose death and so were converted to dust puppets in their armor. I was thinking about painting them their squad's colors, but leaving the chapter badge as anyone's whom I managed to do a Sweeping Advance on. It would almost look like a twisted Deathwatch squad after a while....

You could even set up your squad's colors to be twisted versions of Fallen Marines in your local club, and your Fallen Dark Angel has collected in his journeys. Do Havoks and Obliterators as fallen Imperial Fists, Raptors and Talons as Raven Guard or Blood Angels, and the regular "Tactical" Marines could be Ultramarines and Dark Angel successors or Space Wolves. Your imagination is the only limit in this set up.


Good idea, I think this is the route I'll go down.

Thanks for your help people!

Silversage
08-11-2013, 07:15
Although I do like the idea of an army of the Fallen, I do have to agree with the others that there simply isn't enough of them at one time at one place to make up an army. Even Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade is mentioned to have "several" Fallen in their ranks, and that is no doubt one of the largest Chaos incursions there is/was. During the destruction of Caliban they were scattered through space and time so I doubt there would be a significant number of them bunched up anywhere, chaosy or not. An elite unit is a great idea though!

I seriously doubt that almost ANY chapter has remained entirely loyal during the last 10000 years. That's what they of course want us to think, but the path the Chaos is deceptive and individuals may easily end up on it without realizing it. Even Space Marines. Although there's the same problem as with the Fallen, people are going to get their panties in a twist if you paint for example a whole Chaos Ultramarines or a Chaos Salamanders army. There just isn't enough of them that have gone down that path. Individuals yes, maybe even a squad, but more than that and you better have canonical proof that is is possible. Good example of this is the aforementioned Space Wolves. Go type "Svane Vulfbad" into the Lexicanum.

Romark
08-11-2013, 07:23
Although I do like the idea of an army of the Fallen, I do have to agree with the others that there simply isn't enough of them at one time at one place to make up an army. Even Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade is mentioned to have "several" Fallen in their ranks, and that is no doubt one of the largest Chaos incursions there is/was. During the destruction of Caliban they were scattered through space and time so I doubt there would be a significant number of them bunched up anywhere, chaosy or not. An elite unit is a great idea though!

I seriously doubt that almost ANY chapter has remained entirely loyal during the last 10000 years. That's what they of course want us to think, but the path the Chaos is deceptive and individuals may easily end up on it without realizing it. Even Space Marines. Although there's the same problem as with the Fallen, people are going to get their panties in a twist if you paint for example a whole Chaos Ultramarines or a Chaos Salamanders army. There just isn't enough of them that have gone down that path. Individuals yes, maybe even a squad, but more than that and you better have canonical proof that is is possible.

Yeah, that';s the idea i get. I'm starting to get an idea on what units i will have. For Elites I'll definitely have some Fallen led by Cypher. I think my Tactical Squad may be made up of a few units from the bigger Legions (Ultra's, Blood Angels etc), to signify the relative lack of traitors. But i havent looked into it too much to find another army that could have a whole Unit, aside from Space Wolves.


Good example of this is the aforementioned Space Wolves. Go type "Svane Vulfbad" into the Lexicanum.

I think I've just found my Skullcrushers!

Camman1984
08-11-2013, 11:47
The imepriums records, especially public records and definately any that relate to chaos are so incomplete/destroyed/hidden etc you have quite a free reign on what has fallen to chaos. If you go with established fluff like fallen its best to stick with the fluffy numbers as people have said. But who's to say there didnt used to be a chapter that venerated fire breathing lizards on their homeworld, similar to salamanders, adopting similar iconography, tactics etc. Only these lizards were actually daemons and now the chapter has been excommunicated. Space is a massive place so it would be easy to hide even a chapter sized fleet of ships.