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BasseE
07-11-2013, 15:02
Im thinking about a monster themed dark elves army ;D yheay
So my main concern right now is if i have one hydra (old model) should i get another hydra or get a kharibdyss they are verry different from eachother but which one is the best choice?

Blkc57
07-11-2013, 19:19
If you already have a hydra, you might as well try the Kharibdyss, the thing with the Hydra is that with only strength five and maybe 6-8 attacks and no hatred anymore it has a tendency to fail to do much in combat now adays. Really it could have used at least poison attacks or something to give it a little more oompf. The Kharibdyss has a nice high strength at 7 a good WS of 5 and poison attacks. If it attacks another big monster, it tends to put its lights out quick.

BasseE
07-11-2013, 19:47
Thanks, the kharibdyss sounds better. And i have a tendense to roll insanly high sometimes and if i make all hits the kharibdyss is going to just wreck the poor bastards whos up against it :D

Kayosiv
07-11-2013, 20:07
They serve different roles. The Khari is a can opener that should be used to fight high armor targets like knights and high toughness targets like characters.

Hydras don't excel at either of those things but with their massive amount of attacks plus possible breath weapon, they excel at taking out low armored infantry and since they heal the odd wound done to them, are nearly impervious to all chaff.

Emissary
07-11-2013, 20:20
Problem with the hydra is that it is only I2. Hence, it usually gets hit in combat before it gets to strike which reduces it's attacks that round. Personally, I'm more a fan of the Kharibdyss. One thing to remember in a beast-themed army is that if you give it the high beastmaster buff, it lowers it's chance of getting the extra attacks for not missing.

Gooner
07-11-2013, 20:27
The hydra needs to be played as a support monster. Charge him in with another unit to reduce the attacks he takes and he can do some good damage. The khrib on the other hand can handle itself against other monsters and such. Both will die solo against many of the hard units out there. I feel the kharib can be run by itself but the hydra needs another hydra or an khrib to work well. A solo hydra won't do it most of the time.

theunwantedbeing
07-11-2013, 20:44
The Kharibdyss is the new Hydra.

For the same cost as the hydra you're getting
+1 weaponskill
+2 strength
+2 initiative
Poisoned attacks
Abyssal Howl (which means enemies re-roll break tests in base contact, among other things but that's the big one)
And the ability to deal an extra D6 St7 hits on a single opponent all your attacks just hit

The advantages the hydra has are minimal.
It can regain lost wounds easily if it survives until the end of the dark elf turn.
It's got more attacks so is better at shredding chaff
It can shoot too, which it can do reasonably well for a small extra cost but due to when it regains wounds it might not see much effect.

One non-stat advantage for the Kharibdyss is that it's a rare choice, so isn't vying for space in the army like the hydra is (now virtually all the good options are a special choice).

You can of course take both, but given the choice it's the Kharibdyss by a mile.
It won't shred chaff as well but it'll make them re-roll that break test they'll be taking so they'll break sooner as well as being better in all other situations.


One of each works well though, definitely worth running them together as it'll be a huge pain for your opponent.

BasseE
07-11-2013, 21:40
Thanks everyone for great answers, it really did help! :)

decker_cky
07-11-2013, 23:33
Special choice is not a restriction. You always have 25% core, so to be restricted on special choices, you need to have less than 25% in rare, characters and core beyond 25%.

BasseE
08-11-2013, 06:29
Special choice is not a restriction. You always have 25% core, so to be restricted on special choices, you need to have less than 25% in rare, characters and core beyond 25%.

Actually special has a < 50% restriction

Rakariel
08-11-2013, 07:22
If you only want to run one monster it should be the Kharibdyss as its just plain better. In all honesty if you are going for more monsters however I would take two hydras and a Kharibdyss or three Hydras and two Ks. and a life sorceress for a monster mash list. I have used this sort of setup a few times already and its really good.

As has been mentioned the two monsters serve a different purpose. The Kharibdyss is a very good enemy monster/high armor/charachter killer, the Hydra is better against S3 T3 hordes (breath weapon, regen) and actually a good screen against cannon balls for your more valuable units (they need to oneshot it else it will regrow its wounds). While the Hydra isn`t as good as she was shes definitly worth it if used together with other units (flank charge) and with the right setup. I would always include multiples however.

BasseE
08-11-2013, 07:40
Thanks! the thing is just that i only have the possibility (economicly) to run 2 hydra/kharibdyss (including the one i have). But i am often up against both WoC and Skavens, so i gues i should go with one of each. But i also have friends who plays orcs, dwarfs and lizardmen. if i get one of each i get the best of two worlds and they get to serve their own individual purpose. (plz excuse my lack of grammer and my bad vocabulare, im a swede and plz do tell me if anything is incomprehensible)

thesoundofmusica
08-11-2013, 08:36
Actually special has a < 50% restriction

Correct. But in practice it pretty much never comes into play. I'm sure that is what decker meant.

BasseE
08-11-2013, 08:41
Correct. But in practice it pretty much never comes into play. I'm sure that is what decker meant.
Yhea well that's true, however, it usually does when i play ;D gotta love em specials!

BasseE
08-11-2013, 09:11
Thesoundofmusica you're a swede too :D

Smurf
08-11-2013, 13:51
I know this is a tactica thread and the arguments for both the hydra and the Kharibdyss have been layed out clearly, I think it's worth mentioning that the Kharibdyss is a far better looking model and thus worth taking :p

Spiney Norman
08-11-2013, 14:25
Correct. But in practice it pretty much never comes into play. I'm sure that is what decker meant.

It usually depends which army you play. If you're running an army which has most of its good stuff in special then you can come pretty close. I've certainly written Empire lists where I've been pushing upwards of 45% in special because thats where your IC Knights, DGKs and Cannons are. Dark Elves strike me as possibly being one of those lists.

Assuming you're taking not much above 25% core (I usually try and nail it as close to the number as I can unless there is clearly an A-list choice in core) if your character total is in the region of 25% or less (which is often the case with many army lists I write) and there isn't much you want in rare then you can end up spending most of those points in special.

BasseE
08-11-2013, 14:40
It usually depends which army you play. If you're running an army which has most of its good stuff in special then you can come pretty close. I've certainly written Empire lists where I've been pushing upwards of 45% in special because thats where your IC Knights, DGKs and Cannons are. Dark Elves strike me as possibly being one of those lists.

Assuming you're taking not much above 25% core (I usually try and nail it as close to the number as I can unless there is clearly an A-list choice in core) if your character total is in the region of 25% or less (which is often the case with many army lists I write) and there isn't much you want in rare then you can end up spending most of those points in special.

I agree, i have played for a long time and i play a few races, i would like to say that almost every race is possible to play in a similar style. For example, Vampire counts! you usually play them with hordes and hordes and hordes of zombies skelletons and crypt ghouls. I like to play them a bit different i use alot of special Black knight 5x2 Grave guards 5x4 banner of the barrows, 3x2 crypt horrors! it works and it gets close to 50%

Deamons i play a bit different, i love em pleague drone 3X2 poisoned attacks upgrade and somtimes the heads! oh man are they good anvils!

And im rambling to much!

popisdead
08-11-2013, 15:17
Kharibdriss. S7 Thunderstomp and getting lucky means tearing apart an enemy model.

GrandmasterWang
12-11-2013, 06:23
Kharibdyss given you already have a hydra. Then you get all the nice hydra head bits :)

I have just finished painting my Kharibdyss (without that weird chest claw) and it is a beauty! Im just waiting for it to land all its attacks.

bigbiggles
12-11-2013, 07:45
This book is the only one where I have maxed out all 50% in special almost every time. Maybe its because all the new stuff is in rare, and I don't have the new stuff...

Sexiest_hero
12-11-2013, 11:06
I like the hydra's fireball spitting ability. It works for me, idk how or why but it does.

Djekar
13-11-2013, 00:25
I can't get past the only hitting on 6s (most of the time) with that fancy new spitting attack long enough to try it.

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Lord Solar Plexus
14-11-2013, 21:48
I've certainly written Empire lists where I've been pushing upwards of 45% in special because thats where your IC Knights, DGKs and Cannons are.


Nope. Only DGK and cannon are in special. ICK are core. Lumis, Hurris, Hellis and Steamies are rare. Archers are core, and characters are characters. DGK and the single cannon one might want are so cheap to never come into sight of the limit.