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Orion_76
08-11-2013, 13:40
I was under the impression that after the April FAQ about spirit leech, all modifiers could now be used on it since the faq states to use Inspiring Presence and does not say anything about not using modifiers. After all, when I use IP on a unit for a LD test I use it with all modifiers in play... and the faq says to use IP. This is the latest FAQ on it:

Q: Do units benefit from their Generalís Inspiring Presence for the
purposes of spells that use Leadership, such as Spirit Leech or
Okkamís Mindrazor? (p107)
A: Yes


Now I know there was a previous faq (still current) concerning what unmodified ld is all about, and people rightly referred to it when working out how to use Spirit Leech since the actual spell says to use unmodified ld. BUT... this faq is generic, not spell-specific such as the other one. It's also older, and more importantly it says the unmodified ld doesn't use IP. Now if a new faq concerning this spell says to use IP I'm guessing the other faq is no longer valid for spirit leech purposes, since it overrides it. It also overrides whatever the spell says about unmodified ld: if the latest faq says to use IP then that's whta must be used... right??

I write all this because although a lot of people now use IP for this spell, for some reason they use it without modifiers... and I can't seem to understand why. I mean once the new faq comes out then all references to unmodified leadership for this spell should no longer be taken into account... correct??

I would just like to know how people are playing this and what the correct official way to play it actually is. Thanks in advance.

Blkc57
08-11-2013, 15:19
The FAQs for Spirit Leech are all over the place, so you can do several things: The first is to just use everything since Inspiring Presence pretty much opens the door. The second and a little more common is to use the rules for Unmodified leadership but add in Inspiring Presence for those spells as per the FAQ. The third is to just ignore the April FAQ as complete hogwash and just use the strict definition of unmodified leadership. I've frankly seen all three done. The reason I tend to think people choose the second option is that it is a compromise between the other two points, though each ruling does seem to truly run counter to each other.

thesoundofmusica
08-11-2013, 16:27
How can you come to the conclusion that all modifiers are go from that very specific FAQ?
"Opens the door?" I dont see it.

Blkc57
08-11-2013, 17:44
Because it runs completely counter, thesoundofmusica, to the FAQ that defines what unmodified leadership is, it has a tendency to say "well if Inspiring Presence applies then why shouldn't everything else". What happens for instance if I put Doom and Darkness on your character with the Inspiring Presence, normally that would effect his leadership transmitted, but will it effect the leadership granted to Spirit Leech or even Ohkam's? You would apply one rule but not the other? Frankly it was a bad ruling on GW's part as it is inconsistent with past rulings.

Like I said in the end, you are left with three options on how to play it (some more commonly used than others), choose which ever you think is best for your group. If you want to know how TO's rule on it, I've seen them do all three at GTs but the second option is more commonly used.

bigbiggles
08-11-2013, 18:42
Everyone in my gaming group just uses the leadership written in their profile

Blkc57
08-11-2013, 22:21
Ya its how our group does it as well, just had to give full breakdown of choices though to Orion_76.

Orion_76
09-11-2013, 13:14
Everyone in my gaming group just uses the leadership written in their profile

Yep, I actually think ideally this is exactly how it should be done. Unfortunately with the last FAQ it's not the go. GW faqs tend to worsen complicated ruling issues rather than fix them.

Jachdunlim
11-11-2013, 11:16
Yep, I actually think ideally this is exactly how it should be done. Unfortunately with the last FAQ it's not the go. GW faqs tend to worsen complicated ruling issues rather than fix them.

I agree. Actually, spirit leech is not a "ld test", but roll off. That is why I think people should not use "ld modifiers" (skaven strenght in numbers, banner +1 ld etc.).

Moss
11-11-2013, 16:34
So let me get this straight...

1) The wizard casts Leech on a character in a unit with the Ld banner. The banner doesn't affect the spell?
2) The wizard casts Leech on a character in a unit. Their general is nearby with with the banner. The banner affects the spell because it is being used through the general's IP?
3) The wizard is in a unit with the Ld banner. The banner doesn't affect the spell.
4) The wizard is near the general, who has the banner in his unit. The banner affects the spell.

5) What if the wizard is a Slann with the banner (and is the general)? He can't use the bonus from the banner, but another Slann in his army can?

bigbiggles
11-11-2013, 22:12
Spirit leach/mind razor has taught me that unmodified means something else in the UK. Since these spells are modified by everything they should not be modified by. And not modified by d&d, which would be useful

Jachdunlim
12-11-2013, 05:53
The term "unmodified Ld" was clear until GW published FAQ:-) Now we have the illogical concept of "modified unmodified LD" created by GW's FAQ. That's the problem.

bigbiggles
12-11-2013, 07:31
Or replaced unmodified

teafloy_the_damned
13-11-2013, 05:54
BRB FAQ
Q: When taking a Leadership test, sometimes you have to take it on
your unmodified Leadership. What is your unmodified Leadership?
(p10)
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership
characteristic in the unit. So the Leadership from any
characters in the unit itself (but not from outside the unit, from
Inspiring Presence for example) with a higher Leadership can
be used unless specifically stated otherwise.

I thought that's quite a defined "What is your unmodified Leadership"

But the last statement is key "Unless stated otherwise"

The FAQ states otherwise, so job done

Jachdunlim
13-11-2013, 09:02
BRB FAQ
Q: Do units benefit from their General’s Inspiring Presence for the
purposes of spells that use Leadership, such as Spirit Leech or
Okkam’s Mindrazor? (p107)
A: Yes.

So: according to BRB, you use unmodified LD for the purpose of spirit leech.
According to FAQ: 1) you can use IP for spirit leech. 2) you cannot use IP when calculating unmodified LD
- There is a clear contradiction in these statements

"Unless stated otherwise" - I think the problem is: when you can modify "unmodified ld" (with IP for example), you must face other problems (like Moss pointed out for example).

furrie
13-11-2013, 10:38
BRB FAQ
Q: Do units benefit from their General’s Inspiring Presence for the
purposes of spells that use Leadership, such as Spirit Leech or
Okkam’s Mindrazor? (p107)
A: Yes.

So: according to BRB, you use unmodified LD for the purpose of spirit leech.
According to FAQ: 1) you can use IP for spirit leech. 2) you cannot use IP when calculating unmodified LD
- There is a clear contradiction in these statements

"Unless stated otherwise" - I think the problem is: when you can modify "unmodified ld" (with IP for example), you must face other problems (like Moss pointed out for example).

I would user FAQ 1 in this case, because goes into more details then #2.

Imperator64
22-11-2013, 10:00
BRB FAQ
Q: When taking a Leadership test, sometimes you have to take it on
your unmodified Leadership. What is your unmodified Leadership?
(p10)
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership
characteristic in the unit. So the Leadership from any
characters in the unit itself (but not from outside the unit, from
Inspiring Presence for example) with a higher Leadership can
be used unless specifically stated otherwise.

I thought that's quite a defined "What is your unmodified Leadership"

But the last statement is key "Unless stated otherwise"

The FAQ states otherwise, so job done
I think you've misunderstood something. Its saying that you can use the highest leadership in the unit except when that leadership is held by a character with a rule that specifically disallows the use of his Ld. For example, no model may ever use the Ld of a skaven assassin.

bigbiggles
25-11-2013, 06:11
Oh unmodified leadership, how confusing you are.

What it should be: the leadership written in your profile

What it is : anything but the leadership written in your profile

Poseidal
25-11-2013, 15:06
Doesn't Spirit Leech target an individual model rather than 'unit'?

dooms33ker
28-11-2013, 04:53
The fact that this issue still has not been officially resolved is testament to the mind-boggling skullduggery at GW.

Blkc57
30-11-2013, 03:56
Well the problem is they just keep changing their damn minds on how to rule in situations like this. It can make it really confusing to players who are trying to keep things reasonable and consistent from game to game. It necessitates a house rule practically to keep things clear.