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Minigiant
09-11-2013, 23:00
Hello everyone

Im planning on returning to WFB upon my return to the UK in a few months and having been a long time 40k player dabbkling in WFB once when i was much younger i think it will be a good change of pace and a rather enjoyable experience. For my return i decided on Warriors of Chaos because i am able to convert a theme into the army without affecting army composition; Win Win in my opinion.
Having done my research (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?383875-Returning-with-WoC) i discovered they are a high tier army; even better then.

Considering the meta i will be going into is one of a top tier competitive environment of winning comes first. The lists seen a generally ones that if piloted correctly and a few good dice rolls can win most tournaments. I cant tell you what races i will be facing because a) Ive been in Canada for a while now b)Haven't played fantasy for longer than that.

So i have come up with two army lists with only slight difference but still would appreciate as much constructive criticism as i can receive

Army List 1 -
LORD - Demon Prince: 500pts
Lvl 4 Death, Wings, Chaos Armour, Scaled skin, Sword of Striking, Charmed shield, Dragonbane Gem, Soul Feeder, Mark of Nurgle

HERO - The Troll King Throgg: 195 pts

CORE - 5 Hounds: 30 pts
CORE - 5 Hounds: 30 pts
CORE - 5 Hounds: 30 pts

CORE - 6 Chaos Trolls: 228 pts
- Additional Hand Weapon
CORE - 6 Chaos Trolls: 228pts
- Additional Hand Weapon

CORE - Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle

SPECIAL - Gorebeast Chariot: 140 pts
Mark of Nurgle

SPECIAL - Chimera: 275 pts
Regenerating Flesh, Fiery Breath

RARE - Dragon Ogre Shaggoth: 220 pts
- Additional Hand Weapon



Army List 2 -
LORD - Demon Prince: 500pts
Lvl 4 Death, Wings, Chaos Armour, Scaled skin, Sword of Striking, Charmed shield, Dragonbane Gem, Soul Feeder, Mark of Nurgle

HERO - The Troll King Throgg: 195 pts

CORE - 5 Hounds: 30 pts
CORE - 5 Hounds: 30 pts
CORE - 5 Hounds: 30 pts

CORE - 6 Chaos Trolls: 228 pts
- Additional Hand Weapon
CORE - 5 Chaos Trolls: 190pts
- Additional Hand Weapon

SPECIAL - Gorebeast Chariot: 140 pts
Mark of Nurgle

SPECIAL - Gorebeast Chariot: 140 pts
Mark of Nurgle

SPECIAL - Chimera: 275 pts
Regenerating Flesh, Fiery Breath

RARE – 3 Skullcrushers: 234 pts
- Enscrolled weapons


So what do you think, any good? number 1 or 2?

mypantsarefree3
10-11-2013, 17:20
#2 is more powerful. Switching out the standard chariot and shaggoth for a gorebeast chariot and skullcrushers is a stronger move. The shaggoth is a fine choice but suffers by not having much armor, which the 'Crushers remedies. I've never found the extra 2 inches to matter much in movement between the two chariot types, so if you dont need those points in Core, bump it up to a gorebeast for sure.

Keep in mind these comments are only to up the competitiveness, not necessarily upping the fun for both players involved.

Minigiant
13-11-2013, 22:22
Could really use some constructive advice. Considering these are the first two lists i have written for fantasy in 7/8 years

Bump

Kain187
13-11-2013, 22:44
If you plan on running either list to a tournament you have a lot of issues with banner scenarios. This will prevent you from winning some games and other scenarios involve you doing something usually with a unit with command which you do not have. Also you do not have a bsb. When testing for stupidity and panic tests this can help. The other problem your going to run into being the flavor of the month is experienced players will beat you because they have played your list several times and have had to place tools in heir list to deal with your list and inexperienced players will hate playing you. If you are trying to break into your local hobby this isn't the list that will have people breaking down your door to get games with you.

JDV311
14-11-2013, 00:05
Nurgle prince? Check! Gorebeast chariots? Check! Chimera? Check! Skullcrushers? Check! You have researched just fine. Its a build that takes little skill to win with. You won't win them all, especially games where you need fortitude. Unless its a a tournament where breaking fortitude only gives bonus vp's.

Minigiant
14-11-2013, 01:35
So do you think i should run a BSB and Blocks of Warriors over Throgg and Trolls for a bit more flexibility when it comes to missions?

Kain187
14-11-2013, 18:46
It will depend on the tourney your going to. If you want to be successful you will need more than just a tough list. Take a look at the scenarios and see what is needed. Either way you definitely need a bsb for every list. I think a solid way for woc to get banners is run a pack or two of marauder horsemen slaanesh. They wont panic they can be used to chaff and in a scenario to capture the objective or table quarters you can sit them in the back and then move them in t4-t6.

Minigiant
14-11-2013, 23:35
Keep in mind these comments are only to up the competitiveness, not necessarily upping the fun for both players involved.

If you are trying to break into your local hobby this isn't the list that will have people breaking down your door to get games with you.

Ill answer these two together and in two parts
1. I do already belong to this club where we all play is uncomp tier 1 tournament type games. See im currently in Canada for a year and when i return i want to pick up fantasy again. Where before i left i was playing Blood bowl and 40k predominantly

2. This army is having a theme which can be seen Here -
A Maritime Lovecraftian style Warriors of Chaos army with Nautical features some examples of conversion ideas:

Throgg –
Using Orcs and Goblins River Trolls, but instead of a giant club, he’s holding a huge anchor with a tentacle arm plus some extra tentacles coming out of his back, some fish webbing inbetween is arms and chest and This head (https://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/deepwars/dagathonan-salvager.html)

Trolls – Orcs and Goblins River Trolls

Warriors of Chaos + Heroes – Warriors of Chaos + Maxmini Biohazard diver helmet (http://maxmini.eu/conversion-bits/head-swaps/biohazard-heads-bits) (2nd from the left)

Forsaken – Forsaken + Victoria miniatures cthood-alien-heads (http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/cthood-alien-heads) + only fishy mutations

Marauders – Empire Flagellant + Victoria miniatures cthood-alien-heads (http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/cthood-alien-heads)

Warhounds – Evil squid or crabs

Gorebeast Chariot – Squid Howdah
For the chariots I would think a chariot base being pulled by agiant squid (http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStor...sku-down/88485).Kinda like a Howdah on a squid head.

Chimera – Toad Dragon + Vampire Counts Zombie Dragon Wings

Dragon Ogre Shaggoth – (Kraken Ogre Shaggoth)

Skullcrushers - Chaos Warriors "Knights" (See above) riding Forgeworld Plague toads (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/NURGLE-PLAGUE-TOADS.html)

And here -
The gaze of the Plague Lord over Innsmouth

The narrator is a student on a sightseeing tour of Ferlangen who learns of the existence of a coastal town a day’s rides North West of Ferlangen called Innsmouth. Following a strange epidemic and rioting in the last century fell into such decay and depopulation that it is not shown on maps. Although he is cautioned that Innsmouth is avoided because of "race prejudice" against the townspeople and those visitors sometimes disappear or go insane, he decides to go there anyways. He finds the inhabitants have a repulsive appearance and the whole town reeks of corruption, most houses are boarded up and apparently derelict.

Interested in folklore, the narrator locates an elderly local drunk known for his tall tales, and is told of how seafaring inhabitants of Innsmouth generations before voyaged across the Sea of Claws where they found a cult that practiced human sacrifice to placate immortal undersea creatures. A pact with the creatures was made and they were brought to Innsmouth to dwell on an offshore reef and be worshiped, in exchange the undersea creatures provided gold. The townsfolk revolted against the human sacrifices, but they were defeated by a nocturnal invasion by the creatures, those of the inhabitants not killed agreed to join the cult and keep its secrets. They were also forced to intermarry with the creatures; the children resulting from these marriages appear human, but become undersea creatures in later life.

The young man takes the old drunk's story as totally fantastic, but finds he must stay overnight, which he earlier had been warned against. He flees from the hotel during an attempt on his life, and finds himself pursued by strangely inhuman looking shapes, with reinforcements swarming ashore to aid in hunting him down. Leaving the town he finally sees them clearly in the moonlight, and confronted with the reality that they are a hybrid race, half-human and half an unknown creature that resembles a cross between a fish and a frog, the narrator blacks out.




If you plan on running either list to a tournament you have a lot of issues with banner scenarios. This will prevent you from winning some games and other scenarios involve you doing something usually with a unit with command which you do not have. Also you do not have a bsb. When testing for stupidity and panic tests this can help. The other problem your going to run into being the flavor of the month is experienced players will beat you because they have played your list several times and have had to place tools in heir list to deal with your list and inexperienced players will hate playing you.


Nurgle prince? Check! Gorebeast chariots? Check! Chimera? Check! Skullcrushers? Check! You have researched just fine. Its a build that takes little skill to win with. You won't win them all, especially games where you need fortitude. Unless its a a tournament where breaking fortitude only gives bonus vp's.

So im assuming fortitude means having banners (remember i am new to this). I am currently looking at trying to fine tune my daemon prince to save points but more prominently I am thinking of dropping Throgg and Trolls for a BSB and Warriors this would hopefully give me fortitude make my core troops be more reliable so basically im looking at keeping: (Cheaper) Daemon prince, Gorebeast chariots, Chimera. Thinking a hellcannon would be good to allow me to participate in each phase


It will depend on the tourney your going to. If you want to be successful you will need more than just a tough list. Take a look at the scenarios and see what is needed. Either way you definitely need a bsb for every list. I think a solid way for woc to get banners is run a pack or two of marauder horsemen slaanesh. They wont panic they can be used to chaff and in a scenario to capture the objective or table quarters you can sit them in the back and then move them in t4-t6.

Considering these are my first lists i will take the first sentence as a compliment but i now know i must diversify the list to make it more adaptable and flexible but maintain this toughness as you call it. As i cant fit the Slaanesh mark into the theme easily i would rather note would Nurgle or No mark horsemen perform just as reasonably. Is there any other good options?

Thank you all for your comments, i am taking them all on board and hopefully with you i can build a really good list and great army that isn't just the 'flavour of the day'

Kain187
15-11-2013, 06:53
Fort is General =2 Bsb=1 and each banner = 1

You could add a bsb and add a unit of 18(6 wide 3 deep) nurgle warriors. You can give your bsb the halberd and the flaming attacks which will let your unit deal with regen. I might be off on number of warriors i do not play 2k games my local area is 2500.

Minigiant
15-11-2013, 11:47
Fort is General =2 Bsb=1 and each banner = 1

So what would you consider a good fortitude for WoC on Average?

Kingly
15-11-2013, 11:56
I'd go number two, as a High Elf player dealing with a Gorebeast chariot is a pain in the ass!

The_Wisest_Wizard
15-11-2013, 15:09
Fortitude is for one of the scenarios in the book. If your army is 2k points, your breaking point is 2 (so if you are ever equal or below fortitude 2 you loose the game... i.e. both your lists would loose that scenario instantly). WOC is always going to have a low fortitude count, and you shouldn't give banners to units that are too small... most (hard) lists will have fortitude 3 or 4 (general-2, BSB-1, 1 Banner in a block of warriors-1, maybe 1 more standard somewhere else).