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Arathi
10-11-2013, 23:52
I didn't quite fully comprehend the ways Exarchs work when a a new Eldar puts on the armour. I read Path of the warrior (spoilers incoming), and questions arose when Korlandril became an Exarch.

When he puts it on the assimilation isn't fully done, so he hears the other Exarch voices in his head. Is he still Korlandril and the others?

The question in the front of my mind is what happens once the assmilation process is complete? Is Korlandril merely influenced by all past Exarch thinking/behaviour? Or is it the first Exarch of the suit in control?

I get the feeling you'll tell me they are all rolled into one. :wtf:

Saunders
11-11-2013, 00:02
When he puts on the suit, the dominant personality (usually the first exarch) comes to the forefront. Korlandril resisted assimilation in part due to the fact that it was his body, until he convinced the dominant personality to aid his friend.

None the less, the dominant personality is always influenced by other past wearers of the armor. The only case where this is not true is with Phoenix Lords, where the soul of the wearer is completely assimilated in to that of the original wearer, becoming little more than an index of life experiences amongst countless others who have donned the armor over the millenia.

Perrin
11-11-2013, 01:09
Really wasn't a fan of that. The protagonist that has been developed throughout most of the story is suddenly assimilated by the suit just to allow the first exarch to be reborn? It felt like a death. I realise that Korlandril was still there within the suit, but it still sucked. Even worse when the Phoenix Lord completely absorbed all of them just to heal itself, what a dick move. It made me agree with the rest of the Eldar society that look down on the Aspect Warriors.
The back and forth between the different spirits within the suit was good, but I think it would have been better if Korlandril merged with the suit/spirits but remained as the dominant personality.

Saunders
11-11-2013, 05:02
It was meant to be somewhat tragic.

chromedog
11-11-2013, 05:40
It ended up reading as somewhat of an anticlimax (although I feel these books are probably meant for those who hadn't read the RT/2nd ed fluff on them - which laid the first stones on that path, so to speak) - although not a minute too soon for me. Korlandril came across as a whiny entitled teenager.

Longstrider
11-11-2013, 10:56
Really wasn't a fan of that. The protagonist that has been developed throughout most of the story is suddenly assimilated by the suit just to allow the first exarch to be reborn? It felt like a death. I realise that Korlandril was still there within the suit, but it still sucked. Even worse when the Phoenix Lord completely absorbed all of them just to heal itself, what a dick move. It made me agree with the rest of the Eldar society that look down on the Aspect Warriors.
The back and forth between the different spirits within the suit was good, but I think it would have been better if Korlandril merged with the suit/spirits but remained as the dominant personality.

Well, yeah. I think that's sort of the point though - the life an aspect warrior sucks if you get trapped on that path. That's what makes the Eldar compelling though - this is what they've had to do, to survive and/or maintain some principles. Suitably grimdark in the 40k vein, while being rather different than the fate of humanity.

Shamana
11-11-2013, 16:36
There is something I have been curious about, having not read the book - doesn´t an eldar become an exarch before getting the armor? I though an exarch is an eldar lost on the warrior path and unable to dissociate themselves from their aspect persona. When the other eldar note this, then the new exarch gets recognized and gets the armor. Is that how it works here?

Homeworld
11-11-2013, 19:41
There is something I have been curious about, having not read the book - doesn´t an eldar become an exarch before getting the armor? I though an exarch is an eldar lost on the warrior path and unable to dissociate themselves from their aspect persona. When the other eldar note this, then the new exarch gets recognized and gets the armor. Is that how it works here?

Precisely.

Korlandril is not immediately aware about that, but his mates at the Scorpion Shrine recognize the change and shun him, if I remember. At first he denies the situation and flees to his Exarch master to ask help and advise but the exarch doesn't let him in cause he's an exarch too now, and they will just meet on the battlefield as equals. Khorlandril runs away, aimlessly. Then he feels an inner call to a lost and deserted shrine: he's driven to an ancient exarch suit...And the cycle starts once again.

What I don't fully understand in that book is the link between the exarch armour and its wearer. It is written that an Exarch dons the armour and becomes a part of a gestalt consciousness made of all the past Exarch. Fine. But the Exarch may take off the armour if he wishes and don it again later, and that seems to me weird. It's also suggested that the wearer of the Exarch armour may age and die, leaving the suit waiting for other "chosen" ones. :shifty:
I don't know: If I correctly remember, in the older fluff exarchs were like lesser Phoenix Lords. They dons their armour forever cause it meshed with their very living body tissues.
I think that fits better the multiple consciousnesses issue. How is it possible to live that state of mind if you are detached from the armour? Wi-fi psychic link?;)

Karhedron
11-11-2013, 22:11
I don't know: If I correctly remember, in the older fluff exarchs were like lesser Phoenix Lords. They dons their armour forever cause it meshed with their very living body tissues.
I think that fits better the multiple consciousnesses issue. How is it possible to live that state of mind if you are detached from the armour? Wi-fi psychic link?;)

You do indeed remember correctly, that was how it was described way back in WD127 (possibly the best issue ever written ;)). When the 2nd ed codex came out, the whole merging with the suit was defined as being how the (then new) Phoenix Lords. What happens to the mind of an Exarch who takes off his/her armour was never mentioned.

Idaan
12-11-2013, 15:43
What I don't fully understand in that book is the link between the exarch armour and its wearer. It is written that an Exarch dons the armour and becomes a part of a gestalt consciousness made of all the past Exarch. Fine. But the Exarch may take off the armour if he wishes and don it again later, and that seems to me weird. It's also suggested that the wearer of the Exarch armour may age and die, leaving the suit waiting for other "chosen" ones. :shifty:
I don't know: If I correctly remember, in the older fluff exarchs were like lesser Phoenix Lords. They dons their armour forever cause it meshed with their very living body tissues.
I think that fits better the multiple consciousnesses issue. How is it possible to live that state of mind if you are detached from the armour? Wi-fi psychic link?;)

The Eldar can form telepathic links between closely related individuals. While most Eldar suppress their psychic powers, the Exarchs manifest latent powers from the suit potential (cf. the Exarch powers which are supernatural in nature). Also, an Exarch almost never leaves his Shrine (except for the war council), so it's perfectly possible that even without the suit he remains close enough to communicate with it. Maybe the shrine itself is attuned to the suit and transfers its thoughts.

Offhand, the only appearance of an Exarch without the suit in "PotW" is when Korlandril's master appears to him in the swamps and they train sneaking around*. They're still within the shrine limit.


*I'd have to check again, but doesn't the Exarch wear an something that's basically Scorpion's (of Mortal Kombat fame) outfit? If true, it's certainly fitting.

Arathi
14-11-2013, 21:51
When he puts on the suit, the dominant personality (usually the first exarch) comes to the forefront. Korlandril resisted assimilation in part due to the fact that it was his body, until he convinced the dominant personality to aid his friend.

That really bites. It wouldn't be so bad (and actually fair) if the newest Eldar to don the suit simply became another person rather than the 1st one to take over. WHen you say "usually" I would be safe to assume that its VERY rare.

Forgive me for going deep with this, but what exacly happens to Korlandril (zomg spoiler!) once he becomes fully assimilated? Is he like, asleep? Concious but not aware?

It was a shame Korlandril (spoiler incoming) became lost on the path so fast. He just couldn't control his anger in the end (like a little brat basically haha).

Hellebore
14-11-2013, 22:12
This is the point of exarchs (which is what phoenix lords are). They are trapped - it is a curse. But in that curse lies great power. It's basically the equivalent of someone becoming a chaos champion - great temporal power at the cost of a damned soul.

The aspect warriors are like marked chaos warriors. Exarchs are more like daemon princes. They are all pledged to Khaine.

Hellebore

Perrin
15-11-2013, 01:24
That really bites. It wouldn't be so bad (and actually fair) if the newest Eldar to don the suit simply became another person rather than the 1st one to take over. WHen you say "usually" I would be safe to assume that its VERY rare.

Forgive me for going deep with this, but what exacly happens to Korlandril (zomg spoiler!) once he becomes fully assimilated? Is he like, asleep? Concious but not aware?

It was a shame Korlandril (spoiler incoming) became lost on the path so fast. He just couldn't control his anger in the end (like a little brat basically haha).

He seems to be conscious and aware, but more like a floating head kind of thing. It is kind of like a collective consciousness, with the original exarch being the dominant personality and all of the others advising him and sharing thoughts, memories, opinions etc.

Don't know if anyone has read it but it's like the Eldunari in the Inheritance Cycle.