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Yamabushi
12-11-2013, 06:21
Hi guys,

Our gaming group is a bit confused about the Slaan in the new LM book.

If its in a unit of Temple Guard, it "must be placed in the second rank" as per the "Guardians" rule.

The issue arose when a Challenge is issued and the Slaan accepts. Does it:

a) Move forward to the front rank to accept the challenge, as some of us see the Guardians rule as a modifier only for placement of the Slaan in the unit, and does not contradict the challenge rules about moving models into base to base contact.

OR

b) As some of us see it, stay in the second rank, and fight the challenge "as though both models are in base contact", as the Guardians rule states that the Slaan MUST be placed in the second rank.

Could some rules guru help us out here?

Thanks in advance!

Spiney Norman
12-11-2013, 07:13
Hi guys,

Our gaming group is a bit confused about the Slaan in the new LM book.

If its in a unit of Temple Guard, it "must be placed in the second rank" as per the "Guardians" rule.

The issue arose when a Challenge is issued and the Slaan accepts. Does it:

a) Move forward to the front rank to accept the challenge, as some of us see the Guardians rule as a modifier only for placement of the Slaan in the unit, and does not contradict the challenge rules about moving models into base to base contact.

OR

b) As some of us see it, stay in the second rank, and fight the challenge "as though both models are in base contact", as the Guardians rule states that the Slaan MUST be placed in the second rank.

Could some rules guru help us out here?

Thanks in advance!

Well I would say that in this case army book rule overrides core rules so the Slann is not permitted to enter the front rank unless there are less than 5 models with the guardians rule. Which means the "if this is not possible..." clause in the BRB would be activated and you would just fight as though the Slann were in B2B even though he physically isn't. So option b.) for me.

But more than that it sounds like your opponent is trying to use the challenge mechanic to reduce the number of TG that get to fight, which is really not what it is for, so solution a.) would strike me as being against RAW and RAI.

hamsterwheel
12-11-2013, 12:49
Does the guardian rule state that a Slaan must be placed in the second rank or must remain in the second rank? The distinction is necessary as command models must be placed in the front rank of a unit but can then be displaced during a make way or challenge. I see no difference in the game play if the wording is the same.

Yamabushi
12-11-2013, 13:08
Does the guardian rule state that a Slaan must be placed in the second rank or must remain in the second rank? The distinction is necessary as command models must be placed in the front rank of a unit but can then be displaced during a make way or challenge. I see no difference in the game play if the wording is the same.

The exact wording is: when a model with the mage priest special rule joins a unit whose front rank contains five or more models with the guardian rules, he must be placed in the second rank rather than the first.

That's why I am leaning towards (a) as it states PLACED and not REMAINS.

3eland
12-11-2013, 13:11
As a Lizardmen player myself, I would say A, but then I would question why the unit doesn't have a champion with some sort of magical weapon to take the challenge himself lol.

Ramius4
12-11-2013, 13:51
Since a character must be in a 'fighting rank' to issue or accept a challenge, that's what I would be reading up on in the main rulebook. I don't think the Slann is considered to be in a 'fighting rank' when he's in the second rank, so I doubt he could accept a challenge regardless of the guardians special rule.

I could be wrong, but since I don't have the rulebook in front of me I have no way to verify what I'm saying.

Spiney Norman
12-11-2013, 14:03
Since a character must be in a 'fighting rank' to issue or accept a challenge, that's what I would be reading up on in the main rulebook. I don't think the Slann is considered to be in a 'fighting rank' when he's in the second rank, so I doubt he could accept a challenge regardless of the guardians special rule.

I could be wrong, but since I don't have the rulebook in front of me I have no way to verify what I'm saying.

I don't think the "fighting rank" clause exists in the present edition, at least I couldn't find it the other day when the question arose on Lustria online. Just because a character is not in the front rank does not stop them from being called out, answering or issuing a challenge. In any case it could well be argued that the 2nd rank is a 'fighting rank', since 2nd rank models are able to fight (as are 3rd rank models in horde formations).


As a Lizardmen player myself, I would say A, but then I would question why the unit doesn't have a champion with some sort of magical weapon to take the challenge himself lol.
Most commonly because your champion was killed in a challenge in the previous round of close combat. Temple Guard are a brick, they very rarely run and unless they are fighting a really useless unit they very rarely do enough damage to win CC by enough to break the enemy unless you put a big hitter saurus character in there.

Again I don't have my lizardmen book to hand but I seem to remember there is a line in the Guardians rule is that a Slann may only move into the first rank if it contains four or less models with the Guardians rule (so be careful of putting a scar vet in the front rank of a frontage 5 TG unit).

Ramius4
12-11-2013, 14:32
I don't think the "fighting rank" clause exists in the present edition, at least I couldn't find it the other day when the question arose on Lustria online. Just because a character is not in the front rank does not stop them from being called out, answering or issuing a challenge. In any case it could well be argued that the 2nd rank is a 'fighting rank', since 2nd rank models are able to fight (as are 3rd rank models in horde formations).

Hmmm. I had thought 'fighting rank' was still referenced in the 'make way!' rules section, as well as the challenge rules.

Blkc57
13-11-2013, 02:31
The only requirement to be in a challenge now adays is that your unit just has to be in base contact with the unit of the character issuing the challenge. A Slann can still be challenged no matter wear he sits, all that matters is whether you make the Slann move into base contact with his challenger (thereby strategically blocking some people from fighting) or just leave him where he is and fight it out as per the challenge rules. The book dictates if the two opponents can't move into base contact for some reason they just duel it out where they are and everyone pretends they are in base contact.

Moving into a fighting rank is for the "make way" rule.