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Ratbeast
12-11-2013, 10:30
Tomb Kings, decent builds and other

Hello all, recently been building a tomb kings army, and need some help with getting the best out of them, what have people that play tomb kings found that work for them? with tomb guard would you use halberds or not, ive got 40 and cant decide whether to go, more offense or defense.....

Any general advice be great

Sexiest_hero
12-11-2013, 11:33
I don't like TG, they don't match up well with other specials AND get pasted by wm fir and spells. I always build to last with tk.

gero_nz
12-11-2013, 18:23
Hey,

A few points that have worked for me


Fill core (min points) w Chariots and archers, particularly the latter in units of 30+ to protect heiro. A unit of six chariots is nice.
Spend the bulk of character points on magic, and 2 princes is better than 1 TK in most situations
I run my TG 40 strong w Halberds - with proper magic support they have good staying power.
Take a casket
Grab some of the newer kits (They will generally outperform the older constructs, I like Khemrian sphinx myself)
If you take SSC, take 2 - no point taking one.


Hope that helps :)

IcedCrow
12-11-2013, 18:52
Im the opposite. Dont max on magic. Its often a waste. I run a TK, a prince and usually a pair of level 2s.

SteveW
12-11-2013, 19:45
Go with halberds for your TG, the parry save isn't going to get as many wounds off you as you'll get extra with the bonus strength. Put the banner of restless dead on them as well to keep their numbers up.

Oh, and don't listen to Icedcoffee, max out on magic.

IcedCrow
12-11-2013, 20:02
This is the build I used in the last league I played in iwth them and they made it to the semi-finals before losing to an empire army:

Tomb King with 40 skeletons
Tomb Prince with 30 tomb guard
Heirophant level 2 with 20 archers
Liche Priest level 2 that I'd move wherever
6 chariots with command
1 necro sphinx
1 casket
Scorpion buried
Scorpion buried

I'd sometimes swap out the casket for the catapults. When we went up to 2500 I was able to put in the casket with the catapult

I may have had some additional chaffe I can't remember off top of my head. I think I had tomb swarms as well. Came out 3rd place out of 16 people. Played 11 games total, 9 regular scheduled, then two playoff games (won the first, lost in the semi final). Went 7-2 in the regular season and 8-3 overall.

Wins were wins, we didn't have degrees of wins that scored more points. If you won the game by the minimum (101 points typically) you got a "W". All of my games that I won were close and won by roughly 150 - 300 points. Two of my losses were also close, and I was blown out in the regular season against an all shooty army.

SteveW
12-11-2013, 20:16
90 archers with 4 sets of command. 30/20/20/20
8 necro knights
4 sep stalkers
Heirophant level 4
necrosphinx
heirotitan
casket

And you still have some points to play with.

Jind_Singh
12-11-2013, 20:36
Issues with current book..

1) Lore of Nekhra - pretty pants! While the actual spells are good the casting values assoicated with them are NOT! So you're paying quite a tax to get off a semi-decent spell. In addition your highest caster has to the hiro, and he has to take lore of Nekra :S

2) Punch value of a wet sack of tissues - for the MOST part we don't have the hitting power in close combat of other armies. While a T-King/prince have a decent stat line there is no way to create the close combat MONSTERS we see in our Undead Cousins, the Vamps, and we lack a lot of CC ability.


Taking this into account my recent thoughts have steered me to...

1) CORE: Archers/Horse Archers/3-4 Chariots - why? Archers deploy, behind them are the horse archers with the army Hiro in the horse archers - and they shoot, shoot, and shoot! The Chariots shoot - if enemy chaff get close I counter charge. I take standards for everyone so I don't lose blood and glory. If I get off the smiting spell I double tap all my shooters!
2) MAGIC SUPPORT: I take a Tomb KING for armywide ld 10 OR a prince with a +1 LD banner to make HIM ld 10. I take a bare bones level 2, lore of Nekra to be the hiro. I then spam level 2 death to spam the siggy spell to snipe models with my Ld 10 level 2 caster! I'll take at least one level 2 and the big giant that also has the spell as a bound item. They sit with the archers.
I also take 1-2 Caskets to bombard enemy hard hitters like monsterous cav/knights
3) Army support - 25-30 Tomb Guard to have my King/Prince *who have fencers blades for awesome WS10) so i can at least pretend to myself I have some CC ability. I add 2 screaming skull catapults if I can squeeze them in (incase I don't take the giant with bound spells), so they can bombard enemy monsters (or sometimes infantry to try to panic them).
I take 3-4 Carrion who sit at the back and when the enemy advances I fly forwards to act as a 1-turn meat shield to slow the inevitable charges.

Basically my archers shoot enemy chaff and units they can kill in 1-2 rounds of shooting - the spells go at enemy characters, the caskets hit the MC/MI - catapluts hit the monsters - sometimes I also take my own monster to help defend - it's a very static line, not much movement, and it's frankly going to get pretty dull pretty fast! But I can't think of an effective AND fun build that is:

1) fun for me to use
2) fun for my opponent to play

As we just don't cut the mustard! We crumble faster than we raise the dead back - which is no good -and to buff the magic we're now needing Caskets and the giant - but now our lists are dictated as once we take those items it's like - oh, now I need to defend them - ah shoot, archers it is!

Don't let this get you down - I still play a randomly select TK army and have fun - but that's only if it's at the local GW where sometimes the skill level of opponents is not as high as at say a tournament - and we have fun/ close games. but if you want to take them to a tournament and be fluffy and win...much harder boat!

Methios
12-11-2013, 20:42
@jind i hope you are aware that fencer blades does not confer the WS10 to the unit with "my will be done"? Because of this...i find a normal GW alot better...

IcedCrow
12-11-2013, 20:58
Don't let this get you down - I still play a randomly select TK army and have fun - but that's only if it's at the local GW where sometimes the skill level of opponents is not as high as at say a tournament - and we have fun/ close games. but if you want to take them to a tournament and be fluffy and win...much harder boat!

Absolutely. If you are wanting to scorch people at tournaments and competitively, I would say TK is definitely not the book you want to use. If you want a fun army and you don't mind a challenge and you like how TK look, I would recommend it.

Spiney Norman
12-11-2013, 22:40
Tomb Kings, decent builds and other

Hello all, recently been building a tomb kings army, and need some help with getting the best out of them, what have people that play tomb kings found that work for them? with tomb guard would you use halberds or not, ive got 40 and cant decide whether to go, more offense or defense.....

Any general advice be great

Always take halberd with your tomb guard, and always take tomb guard, well maybe not below 1500, but above that every time. They are good, but only if you boost their WS with a king or prince. They are really our only capable combat unit, with skeletons providing little more than a roadblock which has to be smashed through before your opponent can continue on his merry way.

I'm another fan of magic-lite. I don't see the point in investing so many points in a L4 when he has to take the Lore of Nehekhara, if you want to take a high level Mage take Arkhan, otherwise stick with a pair of L2s and a casket, the light of death is one of the best spells we have access to anyway.

The other unit to seriously consider are necropolis knights, the slightly less-ridiculous looking cousins of the sepulchral stalkers. They have a fair armour save for our unit and can really wreck face in combat, bringing a potent hammer to the skeleton warrior anvil.

Minigiant
12-11-2013, 22:44
When in doubt i generally start by looking at how armies are comped and then use it in reverse:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mt5xj9c7xv8wmjz/Swedish%20Comp%20System%20v1.10.0.pdf

WoC for example = Skullcrushers and Gore chariots heavily comped therefore i take them

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
12-11-2013, 23:55
Tomb guard with halberds and the razor standard are a great unit. They're probably the best can openers we have, short of Ushabti (which I find are simply too fragile to be effective).

Here's a list I run at 2,500 points, which I've been quite successful with.

Khatep
Level 4 light/death - scroll
20 archers

6 chariots, flaming banner

2x5 horse archers

2x catapults

1x casket

Ramhotep
33 halberdguard with FC, razor standard

5 snakes, banner/mus


The rerollable armour on the snakes makes them HARD. I've had a horde of witch elves break against them without causing a single wound. The halberdguard are fragile, so become the target for most of your buffs. The chariots either perform very well or might as well not show up. Same with the catapults. Casket, as always, is an auto-include.

I've also considered running this army with Arkhan and a level 4 light/nehek. Up to you, really. Both options are excellent, but I find that I like the buffs better than the death. The thing i miss with this list is not having my hierotitan (who's a total boss). HOWEVER, I find that with hierotitan+casket+level 4 people get really frustrated at how much I roll them in magic. Makes for a less fun game all around.

Maoriboy007
13-11-2013, 01:18
2500 pnt List I've had the most fun with so far

Settra in 5 chariots

GW Prince (Armour of Fortune) on chariot + 3 Chariots

L2 Liche Priest (Nehekara) and L2 Priest (Light) with 5 Light Cav

Warsphinx (Flaming Breath)

2 Tomb Scorpions

Necrosphinx

Casket

Catapault (no upgrades)

tw1386
13-11-2013, 01:26
I play Tomb Kings quite regularly at uncomped events, since they are all pretty much uncomped down here in the South US / Texas area. One thing we are good at, and I mean pretty damn good at it, is spamming the heck out of magic. If you want to go competitive, this is the "easiest" route. But be prepared to play a gunline, because that's essentially what you are. You're easily spending close to 800 points on magic to do it.

If you want to make opponents whine, take Arkhan - Lvl 4 Light (power stone) . 2 x 1 lvl 1's of light (channeling staff (or enkhils canopy) / scroll). Casket, Heirotitan. Don't try the six dicing shenanigans here. Spam the heck out of throwing 1-3 dice MAX. You will overwhelm your opponent with magic, and all he can do is pick his poison. Try to save one dice and pop your power stone and throw that Timewarp on your unit of knights / tomb guard during that critical combat and watch them remove loads of models. The key to playing this kind of list is knowing how to "trick" your opponent into dispelling spells you don't really need because this game is won in Close Combat. First half of the game you want to just try to do as much damage as possible to him before he gets to you. Snipe his characters, net his casters, banish his armored stuff. Only time I throw 6 dice is at the casket, and I'm playing a heavy armor / msu WoC / Empire army. If you can net his Caster bunker and you have arkhan, youll be getting +3 power dive every turn. A buffed up combat unit will just be a wrecking ball.

But if you lose your casters to miscasts, you're in deep doo doo really.

Our movement is so slow, and horrid you just pretty much have to skip this phase, except trying to block up of much as his army as long as possible with chaff like carrion / Horse Archers / 10 man archer units / and scorps.

dooms33ker
13-11-2013, 01:31
Tomb guard with halberds and the razor standard are a great unit. They're probably the best can openers we have, short of Ushabti (which I find are simply too fragile to be effective).

Why take the standard when they already have killing blow, which already ignores armor saves, and can be boosted to 5+ with a spell? Sure, it will cause a few more failed saves, but isn't it pricey at 45 points for the unit? Likewise, the two point upgrade for halberds on an I3 unit is a bit expensive, especially once the tomb price bites/turns to dust and they're stuck with ws3. And with the parry save, you may be able to stall some of the nastier things, such as Chaos Warriors, which you wouldn't be able to beat even with the banner and halberds.

I say, use the 125 points you saved to take a l2 priest, so that with at least three of them, you should be able to get Cursed Blades, and place them in skeleton archer bunkers.

Now one might say that Righteous Smiting would be more efficacious with halberds, and to them I would say: take three units of Tomb Guard with hand weapons and shields, and instead cast the boosted version of Cursed Blades, which only needs a 10 to go off, compared to 15 for the boosted Righteous Smiting. Against monsters and monstrous infantry, take two screaming skulls and a Necrosphinx.

So the list would look something like this:

3 tomb prices
3-4 Priests

1 Unit of Chariots
3 blocks of archers
3 blocks of tomb guard w/ hand weapons

Warsphinx
Necrosphinx

2 screaming skull catapults

Spiney Norman
13-11-2013, 06:29
Why take the standard when they already have killing blow, which already ignores armor saves, and can be boosted to 5+ with a spell? Sure, it will cause a few more failed saves, but isn't it pricey at 45 points for the unit? Likewise, the two point upgrade for halberds on an I3 unit is a bit expensive, especially once the tomb price bites/turns to dust and they're stuck with ws3. And with the parry save, you may be able to stall some of the nastier things, such as Chaos Warriors, which you wouldn't be able to beat even with the banner and halberds.

Halberds a expensive, but justifiably so, S5 is much better than S4. For me, if you are taking Tomb Guard (which in my opinion you always should) they should always have Halberds. I don't think 2pts is bad for the halberd, 1 would have been better since it effectively means you can't use your shield in combat, but if a halberd is worth 1 pt on a S3 unit then it probably is worth 2 on a S4 unit.



I say, use the 125 points you saved to take a l2 priest, so that with at least three of them, you should be able to get Cursed Blades, and place them in skeleton archer bunkers.

Rule no.1 never rely on magic to make a viable game plan, simply too much can go wrong with it, you can lose your wizard to a freak miscast, or roll snake eyes for winds. In addition you want to check the rules for killing blow, it only affects close combat attacks unless specifically stated, so archers pouring killing blow arrows on the enemy simply doesn't work.


Now one might say that Righteous Smiting would be more efficacious with halberds, and to them I would say: take three units of Tomb Guard with hand weapons and shields, and instead cast the boosted version of Cursed Blades, which only needs a 10 to go off, compared to 15 for the boosted Righteous Smiting. Against monsters and monstrous infantry, take two screaming skulls and a Necrosphinx.

Are you one of those people who thinks the necrosphinx is the premier monster killer GW marketed it as? I'm sad to say it really isn't, after something like 20 games of using it I have never converted a Heroic killing blow on a monster, the odds of it coming off are just too extreme to plan for.

I would far rather take halberd guard. Yes cursed blades can make them good without the berds, against certain enemy units (mainly low toughness, high AS opponents), but the Halberds make them better against everything and don't require the successful casting of a spell to be able to kill stuff.



3 tomb prices
3-4 Priests

1 Unit of Chariots
3 blocks of archers
3 blocks of tomb guard w/ hand weapons

Warsphinx
Necrosphinx

2 screaming skull catapults

What size game is that? For a decent size TG unit you need at least 30 of them, to me it looks like you're pushing up towards 3000 with that little lot.

ewar
13-11-2013, 12:32
Rule no.1 never rely on magic to make a viable game plan, simply too much can go wrong with it, you can lose your wizard to a freak miscast, or roll snake eyes for winds. In addition you want to check the rules for killing blow, it only affects close combat attacks unless specifically stated, so archers pouring killing blow arrows on the enemy simply doesn't work.

Are you one of those people who thinks the necrosphinx is the premier monster killer GW marketed it as? I'm sad to say it really isn't, after something like 20 games of using it I have never converted a Heroic killing blow on a monster, the odds of it coming off are just too extreme to plan for.

I would far rather take halberd guard. Yes cursed blades can make them good without the berds, against certain enemy units (mainly low toughness, high AS opponents), but the Halberds make them better against everything and don't require the successful casting of a spell to be able to kill stuff.

I think you can definitely base a strategy around magic - yes you have to accept that sometimes you'll roll snake eyes for the winds, but that's not much different to other phases, like failing a re-rollable 10 terror test to have your main combat unit run down. S++t happens. The good thing about tomb kings and the magic heavy approach is that actually rolling a low double for winds will often get you a much stronger phase than an average 7 will. 5 channels, rod and casket go a long way to evening things out in the magic phase.

Regarding the Necrosphinx, I know you don't really rate it, but I've had a lot of success with mine. Cursed blades definitely improves the odds when it comes to the HKB (mine has so far HKB'd two steam tanks and an arachnorok). Plus I find the ability to Fly invaluable, for either charging over intervening units or just easy manoeuvring when things get tight.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
13-11-2013, 17:46
Why take the standard when they already have killing blow, which already ignores armor saves, and can be boosted to 5+ with a spell? Sure, it will cause a few more failed saves, but isn't it pricey at 45 points for the unit? Likewise, the two point upgrade for halberds on an I3 unit is a bit expensive, especially once the tomb price bites/turns to dust and they're stuck with ws3. And with the parry save, you may be able to stall some of the nastier things, such as Chaos Warriors, which you wouldn't be able to beat even with the banner and halberds.

KB only works against infantry and cavalry. Against things like Juggerknights, Demon Princes, or any other 1+ save that can't be killing blow'ed we have very little in the way of answers. Stalkers are your best bet, but against anything I3 or higher they’re more likely to wound themselves than their target.

That’s what the standard is for. -3 to armour is huge, and well worth 45 points. Against cavalry it extends your threat beyond the killing blow, meaning you aren’t neutered by Heavens anymore and have far more “must dispel” spells than just Cursed Blades.

As for the survivability of the TG, yes they’re hella fragile now. But Rammy snakes don’t need much attention, and my chariots rarely ever need more than a Cursed Blades and a Soulblight/Desiccation or so to do their business. That means most of the buffs are making it onto my Tomb Guard. Not to mention that Ramhotep makes them frenzy, so they lose their parry saves anyways.

I’m also thinking about switching to light just to make them more survivable. Speed of Light and Timewarp would both let them hit first against nearly everything (while getting rid of rerolls on elves). WS10 would help them hit and avoid being hit, and protection also does the latter. I’m not convinced that S6 banishment is worth an extra 140 points, but we’ll see.

Sexiest_hero
16-11-2013, 13:14
I go magic light and construct heavy, you have have a army fast as a marching force with lords and heroes on mounts, chariot and horsemen core, snakes and kitties special and flying kitties rare. I've dropped all war machines and we are just to slow to stop fast cav anyways and just take more stompy goodness. If speed isn't the issue with you. then take a core of 150 skeleton warriors and run them like skaven slaves.

Kalandros
18-11-2013, 06:45
I'm thinking of giving this a try:

[235] Liche High Priest - Level 4 Wizard, Dispel Scroll
235

[080] 10 Skeleton Archers - Musician, Standard Bearer
[070] 5 Skeleton Horse Archers
[070] 5 Skeleton Horse Archers
[240] 4 Skeleton Chariots - Standard Bearer: Banner of Eternal Flame
[165] 3 Skeleton Chariots
625

[410] 8 Ushabti - Musician
[345] 5 Necropolis Knights - Musician, Standard Bearer
[270] 4 Necropolis Knights - Musician
[165] 3 Sepulchural Stalkers
1190

[225] Necrosphinx
[225] Necrosphinx
450

Maoriboy007
18-11-2013, 07:23
I'm thinking of giving this a try:

[235] Liche High Priest - Level 4 Wizard, Dispel Scroll
235

[080] 10 Skeleton Archers - Musician, Standard Bearer
[070] 5 Skeleton Horse Archers
[070] 5 Skeleton Horse Archers
[240] 4 Skeleton Chariots - Standard Bearer: Banner of Eternal Flame
[165] 3 Skeleton Chariots
625

[410] 8 Ushabti - Musician
[345] 5 Necropolis Knights - Musician, Standard Bearer
[270] 4 Necropolis Knights - Musician
[165] 3 Sepulchural Stalkers
1190

[225] Necrosphinx
[225] Necrosphinx
450Put your wizard on a horse, most of the army moves faster than he does on foot and you'll need to at least try to keep him in range to support them with magic, it'll help keep him out of trouble too. A little character light, at least a prince on a chariot might be handy. Is it still mandatory to have a prince or king as a general? Have to dig out my armybook to check.

dooms33ker
18-11-2013, 07:23
I'm thinking of giving this a try:

[235] Liche High Priest - Level 4 Wizard, Dispel Scroll
235

[080] 10 Skeleton Archers - Musician, Standard Bearer
[070] 5 Skeleton Horse Archers
[070] 5 Skeleton Horse Archers
[240] 4 Skeleton Chariots - Standard Bearer: Banner of Eternal Flame
[165] 3 Skeleton Chariots
625

[410] 8 Ushabti - Musician
[345] 5 Necropolis Knights - Musician, Standard Bearer
[270] 4 Necropolis Knights - Musician
[165] 3 Sepulchural Stalkers
1190

[225] Necrosphinx
[225] Necrosphinx
450

I feel you will be lacking two important things with this list: magic and ranks. Because TKs rely so much on their magic for movement, one failed casting with your LV4 and your army is crawling like molasses. Secondly, you've got no way of breaking larger units. If you want to avoid shambling infantry then I'd suggest taking a unit of 9 chariots with a tomb prince at the front. Drop the 10 skelies, which will die in a single round of shooting, leaving your LV4 **** out of luck and alone, and instead take your lv4, along with a lv2 in a unit of 15 horse archers. You might also need to drop four of the Knights to find points for these changes.

-Totenkopf-
19-11-2013, 00:16
I just picked up another 6 ushabti from an amazing online deal and with the way everything is set up on my shelf, it got me thinking about a new list.. I want to squeeze a a horde of ushabti, horde of TG and 60ish skellies into a list.. This is what I came up with.. I want to give it a go because it looks really cool..

Prince w/AoD, shield.
Necrotect w/Potion of T
Lvl2 Nehek w/scroll
Lvl2 Death w/Sceptre of Stability on steed

60 skellies full command
3 Chariots
3 Chariots
10 archers
5 horse archers
5 horse archers

16 Ushabti Champ, standard (not sure how to kit them out)
28 TG HW/S Full command - BoUL

Thoughts? I'd like to squeeze in a casket and a catapult and even halberds on the TG but As is I think it could do some damage.. and if not, it will look good doing it.. :)

Folomo
19-11-2013, 11:20
This army will definitely struggle against anyone who doesn't want to engage. With a low level caster, and no ranged threat, and no way to deal with enemy chaff before they bog your big units down, the enemy will simply stand back, chaff you, shoot your hierophant bunket/chaff and win.

Considering your prince already has a 4+ ward save, I don't see the point in using a shield. The +1 armor wont make a difference, but a +2 to strength would, so I recommend you take a GW with him.

Since horse archers are scouts, your lvl2 wont be able to start with them, so he is really vulnerable to shooting. I would recommend a horsemen unit in case you want to use the mounted wizard. But in general, a smart enemy will roll over you on the magic phase with just 2 lvl 2.

Not a fan of sacrificial chariot units. Too expensive IMO, but some people do like them.

The hierophant bunker is too small. 10 T3 wounds can be easily killed by a spell, and then your hierophant is dead and your army will start crumbling.

I would recommend increasing the size of the TG horde. 28 are too few IMO since you will start losing attacks really fast. The banner is worse than +1 to speed and 3 more TG IMO. Without halberds they aren't really much better than skellies and don't add anything special to the list. They will work best as a anvil, but for almost 400 points they are rather fragile.

And if you want to have a ushabti horde, I would recommend to have the necrotect with them and arm them with GW. 50 S6 attacks that hit on rerollable 4+ is good enough, just a bit expensive.

Folomo
19-11-2013, 11:21
[double post]