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View Full Version : Who's got the Black Legion Supplement?



thrawn
13-11-2013, 14:31
Is it worth it? should i buy it? i like the black legion and may want to start an army (i got a noise marine army now) just because i like the chosen from the boxed set, but can i make a competitive army using chosen? like 4 units of 5 chosen, 3 baledrakes and 3 maulerfiends?

13713
13-11-2013, 15:10
I do not run Chaos Space Marines but my friend does... His take on the Black Legion supplement is that if you love fluff it is a great book, if you are in it for the rules it is a waste of money.

csm
13-11-2013, 15:25
I have it.

In terms of rules, the best part about it is definitely the wargeer.

I used the eye of night for the first time a few days ago. On turn 1 I took out 1 wave serpent and stripped a hull point off another (he had them adjacent to each other). That was pretty cool.

The spineshiver sword works great on a lord, and even better on a sorcerer. The reason why it's better on a sorcerer is they are I4 by default, where a lord is I5. Giving a sorcerer I5 makes him very reasonable to use in combat against marines without forcing mark of slaanesh on him (combined with the fact that it is a daemon weapon).

Those are my faviorate 2 artifacts, but there are a few others that you might find a utility for (such as The Skull of Ker'ngar on a daemon prince for eternal warrior, or the Last Memory of the Yuranthos to wipe out a large amount of hoard models in 1 turn).

Unfortunately, the rest of the rules are weak. Chosen as troops is not so great to me (too expensive for what they do), and the super special Abaddon terminators are just a bit too expensive. The +1 WS/BS is a nice rule, but I think it would have been better to make it cost half the points but you choose one or the other between WS or BS.

thrawn
13-11-2013, 15:37
thanks guys.

with respect to the fluff, is there anything new in it? or is it full of stuff we already know (abaddon, 13th crusade, eye of terror, blah blah blah).

13713
13-11-2013, 15:50
Honestly I think the fuff is probably just a consolidated fleshed out version of what is commonly known. I do not know for sure as I have not read the book so I would not be able to reliably tell you one way or the other.

Theocracity
13-11-2013, 16:04
thanks guys.

with respect to the fluff, is there anything new in it? or is it full of stuff we already know (abaddon, 13th crusade, eye of terror, blah blah blah).

From what I've read, the fluff goes into more detail about how Abbadon consolidated his power among the various warbands in the Eye, which includes some pretty cool details. It also goes into detail about what he accomplished with each of his Crusades, and how he grows his power and influence.

thrawn
13-11-2013, 16:50
From what I've read, the fluff goes into more detail about how Abbadon consolidated his power among the various warbands in the Eye, which includes some pretty cool details. It also goes into detail about what he accomplished with each of his Crusades, and how he grows his power and influence.

i see. but is that worth the $35? for less then $10 i can buy a horus heresy book and enjoy reading it a lot more.

so i'm still not sure if i want to buy it now or not. i think i need to see a copy before i decide, the problem is that it's only digital and i don't know anyone who has a copy that i can at least glance over.

Belakor
13-11-2013, 17:06
Get if you are a Black Legion fan, it sorta removes the stamp of wall banging Abaddon, and have some serious nice fluff.

Rule wise, it is OK I guess, the Skull of Kern'gar is sorely needed - giving your precious warlord EW.

Mozzamanx
13-11-2013, 17:17
Fluffwise it's a decent read. Lots of shenanigans based on time-travel and the potential scenarios resulting from Warp-time. Also follows a pretty in-depth overview of Abaddon and the Black Crusades. Ruleswise however it is very much a disappointment.

- Chosen as Troops can be replicated with the main book. You can repeat it here without paying for Abaddon but the point is that Chosen make for an awful Scoring unit to begin with. The whole point of Chosen is the special-weapons spam and T4/3+ bodies that cost 30-35pts each are a really, really awful idea. It also removes any incentive for target priority on your opponents behalf because the expensive, damage-dealing monsters are *also* the units that will win the game on objectives, and come on a package that is far too fragile to survive the response to such a threat.
- VotLW is mandatory on everyone. This varies from a very reasonable entry price (CSM) to an annoying tax (The Chosen that probably justify the Legion as your desired army) to a significant downside (Terminators and HQ). It has the added benefit of directly contradicting the fluff introduced with the book, where the Legion is largely made up of new recruits and post-Heresy renegades.
- The Terminator formation is simply awful. Abaddon is too expensive as an entry point. The buffs are nice, but not nice enough to justify the price. Especially when VotLW is also forced on you. Terminators work as disposable special weapons and not only is the extra WS/BS fairly redundant in that role, it also magnifies the price without fixing the glaring problem regarding reliability.
- The Artefacts are decent. The Last Memory is glorious and probably my favourite part of the book. Spineshiver and the Skull are situationally very useful, particularly if you fancy a Daemon Prince and want survivability over raw punch. However while they are good, they are not necessarily Brand/Axe/Mace good. They are alternatives which come with an added dose of taxes to unlock.

If you love Chaos FA and HS slots, the army is worth playing as an Allied Detachment. If you want a safe option for EW on your Prince or a nice Psychic option, the Artefacts are pretty good. In any other situation I'd say to avoid it and stick with the stock book. Fluff is decent, but expensive.

Fagerlund
13-11-2013, 18:21
I quite like it. The fluff is broadly Abaddons story which is nice.
Ruleswise it's not something spectacular, but if you're a fan of elite armies that hit really hard in close combat it's cool. Contrary to what the Internet in general thinks I think that if you're going for Chosen as Troops you want them for CC-duty. They have three attacks base (2 on profile + 1 for two weapons) which makes them really dangerous, especially against Marines due to Hatred. So if you prefer an aggressive playstyle where you're mostly in the opponents deployment zone this book offers a way to do that. But that playstyle is doomed to fail according to the Internet. And the Internet is always right.
Another nice thing with the book are the special scenarios. If you like some varity in missions this book offers some nice ones that plays quite differently from the standard ones.

thrawn
13-11-2013, 18:58
thanks guys. i guess i will inevitably buy it, i just wish it was a bit cheaper. whereas i've purchased other codex' and when i bore of them i can sell them on ebay and get most of my money back, this is a one time purchase. i wish GW would reduce the price.

Ironbone
13-11-2013, 20:56
i wish GW would reduce the price.
Not only you ;). Sadly, it's greedy workshop, all we can expect is pricies going up, up, up, no matter if that make any economical sense or not :p.

Marshal_Loss
14-11-2013, 16:58
If you're a fan of the Black Legion/Sons of Horus, it's a good purchase. Ruleswise, it offers relatively little aside from a few artifacts (unless you really, really want to run all chosen) but if you like the Legion then buy it, love the fluff and build the army however the hell you want.

Nazguire
15-11-2013, 13:07
The new war gear is much more useful in many ways than the current CSM Codex war gear. The Eternal Warrior/Adamantium Will item is quite good, and the Spineshriver Blade is also quite cool. If you wish to play a background accurate Black Legion army then yes, it is quite a cool little set of rules. Just understand you probably won't win too many games with a bunch of different Chosen units running around and that a lot of points will be sucked up in the compulsory Veterans of the Long War upgrade, preventing you from that extra unit or so. If you don't mind that and just wish to have a Chosen heavy army saturated with plasma/melta weaponry, power weapons and other fun stuff, then it definitely is the CSM faction for you.

Some of the missions are quite fun too :)

skorczeny
15-11-2013, 15:42
Definitely going to use this supplement, although I don't have any chosen...

I will, however, benefit from the new warlord traits, and what I'm really after - Spineshriver sword - I've been dying to get my hands on a demon sword since the 6th edition codex hit the shelves.

Any idea when the hard copy will be available for purchase?

Soupcat
16-11-2013, 00:17
I've been fiddling around with it, I usually don't end up using any of the artifacts out of the core book so I gave it a try. I really like running a deamon prince with the ew and daemon sword. I havn't really been able to run a deamon prince in the past because my meta is very MC and GK heavy so the BL book has been fantastic for me even if I don't take advantage of the chosen.

Inquisitor Shego
16-11-2013, 00:44
One of my main hates of the chaos space marine book was the lackluster artifacts, which this book goes a long way to remedying. Ultimately though, consider this a nice bit of fluff, with some side rules tacked on that giveth as much as they take awayeth.

Dr. Who
16-11-2013, 20:15
Wasn't the hardback version supposed to be released on the 16th of november? I couldn't find it in the GW webshop. Hmm... another delay, Ugh!

- Dr.

Belakor
16-11-2013, 20:37
It is available but only in the chaos bundle it seems.

Nazguire
16-11-2013, 23:06
Wasn't the hardback version supposed to be released on the 16th of november? I couldn't find it in the GW webshop. Hmm... another delay, Ugh!

- Dr.


You can only buy it, at this stage, in conjunction with the Chaos Marines and Chaos Daemons Codex gift bundle thing. It looks nice and pretty, but way over priced.

Dr. Who
17-11-2013, 23:08
You can only buy it, at this stage, in conjunction with the Chaos Marines and Chaos Daemons Codex gift bundle thing. It looks nice and pretty, but way over priced.

Yes, I know that (it's on the website), but in the current WD the normal hardback direct only version was slated for release on november 16th. Hmm, the plot thickens...

- Dr.

Worldeaters
18-11-2013, 12:38
It's out this Saturday, direct only.

The Underdog
21-11-2013, 15:48
So just a straight release this weekend? Or will it be a preorder? I'm assuming that they have forgotten the pre order window since WD listed its release as the 16th and there is no sign of it.

malisteen
22-11-2013, 00:03
I use the BL supplement, myself, as a matter of style and pride, but rules-wise, it is easily the most disappointing, lackluster supplement so far. The vets requirement is in direct opposition to the presented fluff, and specifically punishes the use of exacly the units the supplement purports to encourage - vets is ok on units that get it for 1ppm, but downright bad on units like chosen and terminators that have to pay more, aggravating the exact problems that make these unpopular units in the parent book while offering largely inconsequential benefits in exchange.

The artifacts are ok, but its hard to call them superior to the brand, axe, and mace in the parent book.

The fluff is ok, but only ok. It does a good job retconning the fluff for Abaddon and his crusades to make him feel much more competant, and it goes into some detail on example black legion warbands and non-black legion Sons of Horus warbands, which is nice. If you're an Abaddon fan, then yeah, you miht think it was worth it, as its definitely the all abaddon all the time show starring abaddon and guest starring everyone's favorite warlord, abaddon.

What the book fails to do, however, is offer more than a name drop for any other key figures in the legion. Where the Farsight book intoduced and gave rules for the 8, the BL book barely does more than mention figures like Zaraphiston, you get very little idea of who they are or why they follow the Despoiler.

And then, instead of rules for new black legion characters, the supplement has the gall to say 'everyone works with the black legion some times, so go ahead and use non-BL special characters. Of coure, when non black legion warlords like typhus or huron do work with the black, they dont leave their personal forces behind to lead black legion forces personally, they lead their own forces while allied black legion led by black legion commanders work with them - ie, ally rules, which the supplement already represents via allying with the parent book.

Much is made in the book of abaddon's reliance on divination, binding daemons with knowledge of the future, subverting prophesies that might work against him or crafting new prophesies that will strengthen him in the future, and specifically collecting chaos sorcerers withpowers of divination. Which is why, like the parent book, the blavk legion supplement has no access to divination... wait...

So yeah, its a lot of stuff like that. Halfway decent fluff, annoyingly contradicted or subverted by the book's own rules. The same kinds of problems that the 6e CSM codex already has, only magnefied. Many of the problems are actually a direct consequence of problems in the main book, actually, so its not all the supplement's fault. Its not the supplements fault that vets is a bad upgrade on chosen and terminators due to stupid pricing. Its not the supplements fault that chosen are painfully overpriced for their durability, and as such make lousy scoring troops, especially when they buy the overpriced vets upgrade on top.

But it is the supplements fault that its fluff emphasizes new recruits then contradicts itself by requiring all the marines to be veterans, or emphasizes the black legions use of divination while failing to provide access to the divination discipline, or emphasizes deep striking terminator 'speartips' while failing to provide the scatter mitigation required for such a strategy to be functional, let alone viable, outside of specific scenario or game supplement (cityfight, planetfall or w/e) rules.

This rant is coming out more negative than intended. I don't exactly recommend this supplement, but neither do I exactly regret buying it (though I probably wont get the hardcover as well when it is released as I originally intended). To end on a more positive note, the scenarios and game supplement rules look pretty cool, and I look forward to playing them... when and if I can ever find an opponent willing to give them a go.