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cswang
16-11-2013, 10:43
So with the release of Codex: Inquisition, what new material do we have?

I don't have the codex myself, but I've seen mention that it lists somewhere around 20 different Ordos in existence, like the Ordo Sicarius and Ordo Chronos.

Both of these have gotten mention in other sources before.

If you've the codex, kindly rattle off anything that caught your eye here.

Sandlemad
16-11-2013, 14:29
So with the release of Codex: Inquisition, what new material do we have?

I don't have the codex myself, but I've seen mention that it lists somewhere around 20 different Ordos in existence, like the Ordo Sicarius and Ordo Chronos.

Both of these have gotten mention in other sources before.

If you've the codex, kindly rattle off anything that caught your eye here.

Got to have a look and it seems mostly to be drawn from the Inquisitor game and the FFG rpgs.
That list of obscure Ordos is interesting though. They're all pretty small considering what the FFG books tell us about conclave sizes so it's likely a snapshot or fiddling with the numbers.

- Ordo Aegis - watches the Cadian Gate (clicks with the Inquisitor Generals on Cadia from Eisenhorn)
- Ordo Astartes - founded in M32, fits with some of the hidden guys in the Ragnar Blackmane book, Wolfblade
- Ordo Astra - stellar cartography
- Ordo Barbarus - pre-industrial worlds
- Ordo Custodum - Terra itself
- Ordo Desolatus - "unknown" but marked as only having a single inquisitor
- Ordo Excorium - monitoring Exterminatus
- Ordo Militarum - the IG
- Ordo Necros - "unknown", possible necrons?
- Ordo Sanctorum - the Ecclesiarchy, founded after the Age of Apostasy. It also notes that the Ordo Hereticus existed before Vandire's reign and all as rumour and secret that but only became (relatively) public afterwards. Is that a new change?
- Ordo Thanatos - "unknown"
- Ordo Vigilus - watches the Ordo Necros.:D

It also mentions the Ordo Chronos (time travel), the Ordo Scriptorum (records and such in the Imperial bureaucracy), Ordo Machinum (duh) and the Ordo Sicarius (the Officio Assassinorum). Only one they seem to have missed is the Ordo Sepultrum (plague zombies around the 13th Black Crusade).

jareddm3
16-11-2013, 14:33
Copy-pasting my post from another thread:

There is some detail on a few of the minor ordos and there are a whole bunch of other minor ordos mentioned by name with their founding Millennium, estimated strength, and a one or two word description of who or what they watch over. *The ones that get full-page write-ups are the Ordo Chronos (Time), the Ordo Scriptorum(Imperial Communication), the Ordo Machinum(Integration of new technology), and the Ordo Sicarius(Imperial Assassins). The Ordo Originatus and the Ordo Redactus are an interesting pair in that the former is attempting to reveal the truth of the imperium's history through 10,000 years of lies, false-hoods, and propaganda, while the latter tries to obscure the imperium's history to keep enemies from learning a weakness from humanity's past. *The rest have only a name, founding Millenium, estimated strength, and what they watch over. *I'll keep it brief and just give name and what they watch over.
*
It should be noted that it does not say how many of these ordos still exist in M41.
*
*
Ordo Aegis: The Cadian Gate
Ordo Astartes: Adeptus Astartes Chapters
Ordo Astra: Stellar Cartography
Ordo Barbarus: Pre-industrial worlds
Ordo Custodum: Terra
Ordo Desolutus: <Unknown> (Note: contains only 1 Inquisitor)
Ordo Excorium: Exterminatus Use
Ordo Militarum: Imperial Guard
Ordo Necros: <Unknown> (Note: contains only 5 Inquisitors)
Ordo Sanctorum: Ecclesiarchy
Ordo Scriptus: Officio Historica on Terra
Ordo Senatorum: <Unknown>
Ordo Thanatos: <Unknown>
Ordo Vigilus: Ordo Necros
*
Personally, I am super excited by most of these. *Obviously there's overlap with the three major Ordos, but I feel most of these are a lot more regional or managerial in scope.

On furhter reading, it seems the issue with needing the whole of the high lords of terra to assign an imperial assassin has been resolved. Commonly it's an inquisitor of the Ordo Sicarius or two that makes the decision on a High Lord's behalf when one can not be present.

Idaan
16-11-2013, 20:47
They're all pretty small considering what the FFG books tell us about conclave sizes so it's likely a snapshot or fiddling with the numbers.
.
A lot of those use < and > - there are more than 500 Inquisitors in the Ordo Militarum for instance. And as far as the FFG books go, it's explicitly stated that Calixis draws Inquisitors like moths because of the Tyrants Star. In the neighbouring Scarus the impression is that there are at most several dozens of them. In the new sector introduced in Dark Heresy 2e, there is explicitly no info, so the players' warband might be the only one in the entire sector.

MarcoSkoll
16-11-2013, 22:44
I sort of agree with what Andy Hoare said on his (now inaccessible) blog when he posted about the creation of the Ordo Chronos.

A lot of these seem more like they should be "Sub Ordos" than Ordos of their own - because, ultimately, subjects like the Imperial Guard, Assassins, the Astartes... these are all "Enemy Within" territory.
The Cadian Gate? That's a cross between heretics, traitors and daemons, but it's not like those subjects don't often overlap a lot anyway.
Sepultrum? Warp weirdness - Malleus.

(Still, I would say his creation of the Ordo Chronos almost certainly fits into Warp shenanigans and could probably be a sub portion of the Malleus).

The power of an Ordo is that it's a pool of resources set up by numerous Inquisitors (given that, while an Inquisitor theoretically has whatever authority he likes, that doesn't so much apply in practice). An Ordo of ten Inquisitors is less powerful than one of a hundred. Having flobbity-jillion Ordos is less effective than just a few.

And what's the point of an Ordo of an Inquisitor on his lonesome? "Hah, watch as I call down the entire might of my Ordo upon your heresy!"

Son of Morkai
17-11-2013, 01:06
And what's the point of an Ordo of an Inquisitor on his lonesome? "Hah, watch as I call down the entire might of my Ordo upon your heresy!"

Trendsetter. Last survivor of what used to be a much larger Ordo. An Ordo with an extremely specific focus that either a single Inquisitor is capable of handling or that no one else cares about. Figurehead Inquisitor (who probably does not exist) that the other 300 secret Inquisitors of the Ordo Desolutus hide behind. The one man who sees the truth and does not trust the existing Ordos. A strong loner personality that does not like following instructions. Some jackass even the Ordo Malleus doesn't want.

The Inquisition certainly like to fragment themselves, what with their various Ordos and ideologies. It's almost as if the Inquisition is not united in its cause to rid the galaxy of any threat, from without or within.

jareddm3
17-11-2013, 02:45
A lot of these seem more like they should be "Sub Ordos" than Ordos of their own - because, ultimately, subjects like the Imperial Guard, Assassins, the Astartes... these are all "Enemy Within" territory.
The Cadian Gate? That's a cross between heretics, traitors and daemons, but it's not like those subjects don't often overlap a lot anyway.
Sepultrum? Warp weirdness - Malleus.

More than likely many of the minor Ordos are technically part of a larger Ordos but exists as an entity within itself to focus on one particular aspect. For instance, I have no doubt the Ordo Sanctorum and Ordo Militarum exist almost entirely within the confines of the Ordo Hereticus, it is merely a way of officially grouping together Inquisitors who have a particular focus in their work.

As for the smallest of Ordos, I like to imagine the Ordo Necros is responsible for deciding whether or not to pull the plug on the Emperor. It would certainly require a whole second Ordo to watch over them.

MarcoSkoll
17-11-2013, 03:08
I'll grant that the Inquisition are divided, as Son of Morkai said. But the problem is what an Ordo actually is.

Obviously, a lone Inquisitor or just five Inquisitors in an Ordo is meant to be all mysterious... ooh, what could they be up to?

But an Ordo is a form of recognised political structure within the Inquisition (just like an Inquisitor Lord is an Inquisitor who has enough political support from his peers that he's recognised as one of the first amongst equals); a branch specialising in a given threat.
One Inquisitor? Five Inquisitors? These are not likely to be recognised as political structures, particularly if no-one else has any idea what their area of expertise is.

Naming every last splinter of the Inquisition as an Ordo ignores the existence of Cells and Cabals - or the idea that Inquisitors do not have to belong to an Ordo.

Several Inquisitors who agree enough to break off from the Hereticus to further specialise in watching the Ecclesiarchy, because they think many of those around are too pious and may interfere? Sure.
But how does that grow into something worthy of being called an Ordo? Clearly, not everyone agrees with them (else they wouldn't have split off!) and they're not exactly possessed of grand resources. Most Inquisitors who have their eyes on the Ecclesiarchy are going to join hands with the far more powerful ally of the main Ordo Hereticus.

Something like the Ordo Astartes might have a better argument. You DO need more specialised gear if you have to deal with the Astartes - there's good argument for researching anti-Astartes toxins and the like.
Still, as the Space Marines fancy themselves semi-separate from the Imperium (and generally answer to the Inquisition only at their discretion), I think having an Ordo Astartes might be a little bit bad for the diplomacy. No, the Inquisition doesn't take chances, so it's not like they're just going to ignore the Astartes, but it doesn't sound like something that's a good idea to formally recognise as faction.

A list like this reads more like it should be a list of cells and cabals - some inside Ordos, others outside Ordos.

What I will admit to is having been writing about an Ordo of Information/Misinformation (a la some of those mentioned) for a good few years now, because it did make sense to me as a significantly different remit. (The idea was inspired by Serenity, specifically The Operative's quote: "Secrets are not my concern. Keeping them is").
Even with this appearing in the canon though, I have no intention to change the name I've been using (Ordo Perditus, one form of the Latin for "lost". The Ordo Celatum was also an option, but just using a translation for "secret" seemed a bit too direct); I've been using it for years, so it's intractably embedded in my fluff writing. For the other, I'm happy to accept that the name for quite such a deceptive organisation might not be the same everywhere.


As for the smallest of Ordos, I like to imagine the Ordo Necros is responsible for deciding whether or not to pull the plug on the Emperor. It would certainly require a whole second Ordo to watch over them.
An interesting idea, and one that could potentially justify their importance.

I'm not necessarily sure how that'd be a task with five Inquisitors on constant duty (with minders) though:

#1: "Today's agenda: Should we kill the Emperor and plunge the Imperium into civil war?"
*The gaze of the scary men in the corner intensifies*
#2: "Nah, not yet."
#3: "Nope. He's doing a good job".
#4: "Doesn't seem necessary."
#5: "It's a no from me too."
#1: "No disagreement here. Okay, that's the agenda for today. We'll reconvene tomorrow."
#4: "Cool. Anyone fancy a game of cards?"
#2: "Sounds good to me."

jareddm3
17-11-2013, 03:31
But an Ordo is a form of recognised political structure within the Inquisition (just like an Inquisitor Lord is an Inquisitor who has enough political support from his peers that he's recognised as one of the first amongst equals); a branch specialising in a given threat.
Actually, according to the codex on page 13, it's not a recognized political structure at all. It's entirely just a declaration of interest. An Inquisitor's power comes from the support of all Inquisitors, not just those in his Ordo. Calling yourself Ordo Xenos doesn't immedietely give you power to call on the Deathwatch. It puts you on a path to interacting with the people and threats that would require the Deathwatch. If you changed your focus to Ordo Malleus, that doesn't cut your Deathwatch connection and give you the ability to call in Grey Knights. Nothing changes except for your motivation. Specializing further simply makes it easier to bring together others with information and skills that are prudent to your interests.



Naming every last splinter of the Inquisition as an Ordo ignores the existence of Cells and Cabals - or the idea that Inquisitors do not have to belong to an Ordo.
The codex speaks of conclaves, which sounds like what you're describing. These gatherings are for very specific focuses down to an individual event, such as the Tyrantian Conclave. They're not for a general specialization.

MvS
17-11-2013, 04:05
Ordo Senatorum - almost certainly looks at the central Imperial government.

Ordo Thanatos - 'thanatos' means 'death', so perhaps they look at the possible outcome and ramifications of the Emperor's death, if it happened. Or maybe they are interested in how to overcome death, although if so I would have thought their name would suggest something a bit more than just death itself.

MarcoSkoll
17-11-2013, 15:50
Actually, according to the codex on page 13, it's not a recognized political structure at all. It's entirely just a declaration of interest.
Even were I to agree with that, in conflict with a lot of previous fluff, there's not much of a declaration of interest if nobody knows what you're doing.


An Inquisitor's power comes from the support of all Inquisitors, not just those in his Ordo.
No, an Inquisitor's power comes from those Inquisitors (and, indeed, other powerful Imperial figures) with which he has an alliance. He cannot intrinsically get any other Inquisitor to come and help him out. As said - the Inquisition is divided in many ways and there are many disagreements.

Membership of an Ordo is part of those alliances - it can put you in contact with the many resources the Ordo can control. Certainly, he/she can have allies outside his Ordo, but an Ordo (assuming it's actually of decent size) is one of the biggest possible allies.

Much as Inquisitors theoretically have limitless power and can call on any resource they like, it's much less true in practice.


The codex speaks of conclaves, which sounds like what you're describing. These gatherings are for very specific focuses down to an individual event, such as the Tyrantian Conclave.
Then they're most definitely screwing with things. This has been renamed from the Dark Heresy rulebook, where it was the "Tyrantine Cabal"

Conclaves are something different. They're either fairly permanent organisations on a sector (or sub-sector) level that act as something of a central hub for the Inquisition (read: Local Inquisition headquarters) or they're gatherings called by an Inquisitor to address a specific subject (read: Inquisition conference).

Cabals are groups of Inquisitors set up by a Conclave (either form) to deal with a specific task. Cells are groups (often still focusing on a specific task) more ad-hoc in formation and functioning - set up without the same "official" backing.

Tastyfish
18-11-2013, 16:33
- Ordo Sanctorum - the Ecclesiarchy, founded after the Age of Apostasy. It also notes that the Ordo Hereticus existed before Vandire's reign and all as rumour and secret that but only became (relatively) public afterwards. Is that a new change?


Used to be Ordo Malleus that was the secret one, with the rest just being 'Inquisitors' I thought.

MarcoSkoll
18-11-2013, 17:34
To answer that question...

... yes, I believe it's a change. The version as I recall it was that it was the Hereticus formed after the Apostasy in order to keep control of the Ecclesiarchy.

However, that's a reasonably sane change - the Enemy Within is such a large and important threat that I cannot believe that there was nothing to oversee it for until M36.
I would still prefer the idea that it was a looser structure that was formalised into the Hereticus than it having been a "secret Ordo" - as I said earlier, Ordos nobody knows about aren't really Ordos.

AndrewGPaul
18-11-2013, 18:19
Used to be Ordo Malleus that was the secret one, with the rest just being 'Inquisitors' I thought.

Originally, the existence of the Ordo Malleus wasn't secret (among Inquisitors, anyway), but its true puepose was. Openly, they were the Inquisition's "internal affairs" branch. Quis custodiet Custodes? The Ordo Malleus does. The daemonhunting and combating Chaos was a closely-guarded secret.

They way I'm looking at it is that an Ordo is basically when a more informal grouping simply gains a "critical mass", and carries on with new members, to the point of outliving the original members. If they can find a spare office under Mount Erebus and put a sign on the door, they're "established". Nothing formal; an Ordo is an Ordo when enough people call it an Ordo. The Three Ordos Major are simply the most popular groupings. To me, the only one with any "official" status is the Malleus, and that only because of their outward guise as watchdogs (I like to keep bits of Rogue Trader background in my setting where possible :) ).

Any discrepancies can be handily chalked up to the work of Ordos Originatus and Redactus.

Poncho160
18-11-2013, 18:49
Is there any more information on the Ordo Chronos?

I imagine they investigate all circumstances of time travel and the technology behind time travel. They may also attempt to stop the bad guys using time travel technology to the determent of the Imperium and research the best way (if any) of using time travel to the benefit of mankind.

Idaan
18-11-2013, 19:34
Is there any more information on the Ordo Chronos?

I imagine they investigate all circumstances of time travel and the technology behind time travel. They may also attempt to stop the bad guys using time travel technology to the determent of the Imperium and research the best way (if any) of using time travel to the benefit of mankind.
There is, in Dark Heresy (especially Haarlock's Legacy and Ascension) and Deathwatch, where it first appeared. As usual with FFG, they provide no easy answers and you have to piece it together on your own, but it's pretty fun. For instance, there's two appearances of two unrelated characters across different splatbooks, but with some knowledge of Robert W. Chambers "King in Yellow" (a horror anthology from 1890s that had a large influence on Lovecraft) and basic understanding of Greek and Latin you can discover that they're the same person. Cool stuff.

Jameseoakes
18-11-2013, 19:46
Idaan, which character is that?

El_Machinae
19-11-2013, 00:29
One thing I liked was the mention that there were 'thousands' of Inquisitors. Gives us an idea of the load on them, in a Million World Imperium.

Mellow
20-11-2013, 17:02
Is there any more information on the Ordo Chronos?

I imagine they investigate all circumstances of time travel and the technology behind time travel. They may also attempt to stop the bad guys using time travel technology to the determent of the Imperium and research the best way (if any) of using time travel to the benefit of mankind.

The best way to benefit them would be to go back and steal a few STC's and DAoT star ships. Get teaching the current tech priests how to construct them and see if that helps stem the tide of death that occurs daily for the IoM

spacemonkeymojo
21-11-2013, 01:22
Is there any more information on the Ordo Chronos?

I imagine they investigate all circumstances of time travel and the technology behind time travel. They may also attempt to stop the bad guys using time travel technology to the determent of the Imperium and research the best way (if any) of using time travel to the benefit of mankind.

I am curious if this is perhaps an order that doesn't deal with time travel as in Hg Wells style but instead with the variation of time between warp and reality. They may also just check the chronological info of documents to see if anyone is fabricating or doing something malicious such as why Sam's documents from the ministry of information are all missing from a certain month.

Lord Squidar
21-11-2013, 03:05
Maybe the lone inquisitor has the task of watching the Emperor for heresy... anyone can be a heretic!

Idaan
21-11-2013, 16:45
Idaan, which character is that?

Cassilda Cognos and Camilla Noesis.

Romanov77
21-11-2013, 19:48
Maybe the lone inquisitor has the task of watching the Emperor for heresy... anyone can be a heretic!

LOL


What if this guy is actually Draco?

By the way, no mention of the Ordo Hydra?


I know it's officially retconned but Squats were also and they got mentioned in the last IG codex?

Jameseoakes
21-11-2013, 22:37
Cassilda Cognos and Camilla Noesis.

Thank you for that Idaan, I'd missed that connection. Clearly I'm going to have to reread the bits with Camilla....