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corps
17-11-2013, 12:21
I read that it' s out but after the meh feelings about some supplements like the one of the black legion and good like Farsight enclave, i wonder what does it offer.

Does someone can give a good review of it. Fluff, list and other?

A.T.
17-11-2013, 12:45
Does someone can give a good review of it. Fluff, list and other?Fluff i'd have to take another look, but in terms of the list :

HQ:
Corteaz - as codex GK
Karamazov - as codex GK, but with a nerfed orbital strike (one shot only)
Hereticus/Malleus/Xenos inquisitors - as codex GK

ELITE:
Henchmen - as codex GK, but with a sororitas priest replacing the banisher

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS (for henchmen only, inquisitors can't take them):
Rhino - as 5th edition marines
Razorback - as 5th edition marines, but with a cheaper assault cannon
Chimera - as 5th edition guard
Valkyrie - as 5th edition guard
Landraider / Redeemer / Crusader - as 5th edition marines

TROOPS / FAST ATTACK / HEAVY SUPPORT
Nothing.

The inquisition FoC is 2 HQ and 3 elite. The elites are scoring if this is your primary detatchment, or always if you take corteaz.

There are three relics. Two give you a few basic USRs (i.e. the xenos relic gives you furious charge if you are facing tau), and the third reduces the combat stats of daemons in challenges with your character.

And that's it, nothing new for the inquisitors - still maximum psychic rank 1 (without the daemonblade), no invulnerable saves for them other than the malleus terminator armour, and nothing from newer books like the porta-rack or auspex.

Killgore
17-11-2013, 12:46
It does exactly what it says on the tin. It allows you to bring an Inquisitor and his war band to other armies.

The Inquisitor has a wide range of wargear options and some exclusive codex only items and warlord traits.

The War band entry includes options for a wide range of customisable henchmen, from priests to warriors and death cultists as well as transport options which include Land Raiders, Chimeras, Rhinos and Valkyries.


Some people got their hopes up and expected more, but those of us who were more realistic got a fun addition to our existing imperial armies.
Only head scratcher I have is no option for Assassins.

corps
17-11-2013, 13:50
Hum for the SOB it has some interesting stuff but also double like death cultist. If someone as both is it possible to know i stats and price are the same in the case of double? It s otherwise pretty limited.

A.T.
17-11-2013, 14:00
If someone as both is it possible to know i stats and price are the same in the case of double?No - the inquisition arcos are the old 5th edition costs while the sisters haven't had their cultists and crusaders updated to 6th.

The units and costs in the book are a confused jumble of different editions, FAQs, and pricing policies.

FraustyTheSnowman
17-11-2013, 15:48
I don't have the book but I've heard the chimera has access to psybolt ammo which is nice. Also, Matt has an article on 3plusplus.net that explains why this supplement drastically changes the game.

Aluinn
17-11-2013, 16:22
Fluff i'd have to take another look, but in terms of the list :

HQ:
Corteaz - as codex GK
Karamazov - as codex GK, but with a nerfed orbital strike (one shot only)
Hereticus/Malleus/Xenos inquisitors - as codex GK

This is really disappointing. It's always been mind-bogglingly odd that regular Inquisitors can't get invulnerable saves when they're available to every Guard captain, commissar, and the lowest-level backwoods parish priests. These people are supposed to be able to requisition any gear they need and they can't get a refractor field? That isn't even too much a challenge for my flipping Rogue Trader character. Too much copypasta of some of Ward's most ill-conceived rules. (Yes, I blame him as much or more for random underpoweredness as random overpoweredness.)


ELITE:
Henchmen - as codex GK, but with a sororitas priest replacing the banisher

Though ostensibly a minor change this is actually huge. The Priests are probably the most powerful thing about the digital AS codex and Banishers were utterly useless, so this is in fact an enormous buff. Going from having nothing but base Ld 8 with no bonuses to being Fearless alone is enormous, never mind everything else those guys can do.

Temple Assassins not being in it is a major fluff wtf, though I assume they were excluded for balance reasons--it is true enough that in the days of Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters it seemed that the majority of Imperial players had a hiding Inquisitor and a Vindicare, and Vindicares were much worse then.

But thanks for the information. In spite of the disappointing amount of copypasta involved, I would actually rather build an army around this as a primary detachment with maybe Guard or Sisters allies than use Codex: GK with Coteaz, by far. It at least allows thematic Ordo Xenos (this supplement plus Marines representing Deathwatch) and Ordo Hereticus (this with IG or Sisters) armies, finally. Being forced to take special characters sucks, especially when they're designated to the GK (Daemon-hunting) theme and you don't want to play GK.

Chem-Dog
17-11-2013, 16:45
Temple Assassins not being in it is a major fluff wtf, though

Really isn't. DH/WH might have suggested it was the case but the Officio Assassinorum isn't the Inquisitions' private ninja resource.

On to the Digidex....
I'm not surprised at it though I'm a little disappointed that they didn't take the opportunity to expand/develop the forces of the Inquisition but, like Killgroe says, it does what it says on the tin. Performs as advertised.

For all it does I'll probably stick to Allied Counts-as Coteaz with a couple of squads of Henchmen as Troops. If I'm desperate I can make the Inquisitor my primary and max out on henchmen.

I've got a bit of a thing for Arco-Flagellants, 6 units of them Coteaz and a buddy Inquisitor watching my Guard advance with those bad boys in the van....Sweet.

A.T.
17-11-2013, 17:00
Though ostensibly a minor change this is actually huge.They make the sororitas conclave entirely redundant.


I assume they were excluded for balance reasonsI assume they were excluded so that they can be copy-pasted into codex:assassins a few months down the line. There is no balance on show here.


I've got a bit of a thing for Arco-Flagellants, 6 units of them Coteaz and a buddy Inquisitor watching my Guard advance with those bad boys in the van....Sweet.You'll have to take him from codex:GK then. Coteaz doesn't make inquisition units troops, just scoring (max 3 units). And the arcos haven't been reduced in price as with codex:AS

corps
17-11-2013, 18:28
Hum i m not sure to get it? Coteaz is in it and is the only one to transform henchmen as scoring unit? No inquisitor can do it? Really no ++? A guy that can give the exteminatus to a world can 't get a correct items? Woha It just reinforce the feelings of lazyness of Ward after the Confirmation for Cruddace with the SOB. They can't even copy paste correctly.

Aluinn
17-11-2013, 18:30
They make the sororitas conclave entirely redundant.

I'd be careful about saying "entirely". Yeah, you can make the same unit (with more expensive Arcos if you really want them), but Priests from the Sororitas 'dex are ICs that can join any unit in the Sisters army and any Battle-Brother allied unit, whereas these are, I would assume, tied to the Henchmen unit, being a type of Henchman and all. That's a fairly big difference between what the two offer as allies.

In other words Sisters can have Priest + DCA/Crusaders, and so can Inquisition, but Inquisition doesn't allow spamming Priests as attachments to make an army of Fearless haters.

And if we exclude Priests, the Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave was already redundant with what could be taken from Codex: GK (again with the exception of a minor points adjustment in the most recent iteration of the Sisters 'dex for Arco-Flagellants which, let's face it, will still probably be eschewed unless taken for fluff reasons).

Most importantly the Sororitas unit is no worse, so I can't see any harm done there. (Unless the Inquisition version can still have power maul/power sword DCA, which is a big-ish deal.)

Also, from both sources the unit is limited in number, but far more so for the unit from Codex: Inquisition being hard-capped at 3 whilst IIRC Sisters can have up to 5. (I'm not sure why anyone would want that many, but if you're using Codex: Inquisition as a primary detachment you probably don't want more than one of your Henchy units to be DCA/Crusaders, because the shooting potential there is excellent and even 36 models with some 3++ save dudes cannot waltz across the table or pop out of a transport to glare at their foes menacingly for a turn without problems.)

I guess you could put them all in Land Raiders but then we're getting into crazy-niche-build-with-easy-counters territory.


I assume they were excluded so that they can be copy-pasted into codex:assassins a few months down the line. There is no balance on show here.

I assure you that attaching a Liber Heresius Inquisitor who hid behind LoS-blocking terrain and a Vindicare did at some point become standard for any SM or IG army in a tournament. If you're forced to choose between Inquisition and Assassins (which remains to be seen, all assuming that an Assassins codex becomes a thing as you predict), that is a balancing factor. It was a lame abuse of what was meant to be a fluffy rule before and would be lame now, anyway, regardless of balance.

@ Chem-Dog: I realize that the Officio Assassinorum is a High Lords of Terra thing (and that its master at times has been a High Lord), but Inquisitors calling on them is by far the most likely scenario to explain them appearing in a game. I would assume this happens more often than their abuse for political power game purposes given that the Imperial government is remarkably stable all things considered, and High Lords are so aloof that they're unlikely to be able to choose "minor" targets for Assassins the way Inquisitors do, and like the characters we see in games, with a few exceptions.

For mankind
17-11-2013, 18:35
Hum i m not sure to get it? Coteaz is in it and is the only one to transform henchmen as scoring unit? No inquisitor can do it? Really no ++? A guy that can give the exteminatus to a world can 't get a correct items? Woha It just reinforce the feelings of lazyness of Ward after the Confirmation for Cruddace with the SOB. They can't even copy paste correctly.

Not when you play the inquisiton as your primary detachment, then henchmen are scoring, besides being elite.

But if you use Inquisiton as allies, what is the intention of this mini dex, you need coteaz to make henchmen scoring.

Spiney Norman
17-11-2013, 20:32
They make the sororitas conclave entirely redundant.


I'm not sure that's really true, the best way to build a Sororitas conclave is a meat shield of crusaders and fill up on cheap Arcos (which the Inq warbands pay 50% more for) so I think there is still a place for the Ecclesiarchy warband. The Inq version is just more flexible, I'm toying with the idea of 3 plasma cannon servitors with a psyocculum inquisitor to give them BS10 templates vs anything psychic, perhaps chuck in a few crusaders as mobile "cover". The CC build for the Inq warband isn't any more potent than the Ecclesiarchy one, its just more expensive (unless you just take Crusaders and DCAs), the only advantage that the Inq warband has is in its transport options, but not everyone wants to bring a land raider.

I think the biggest wtf moment for me was realising that Hereticus/Xenos inquisitors cannot get an inv save by any means, which is monumentally retarded, and Malleus Inqs can only get one by wearing termi armour. I mean we're basically talking about the Imperium's secret police force, with access to stacks of super-advanced alien tech, and yet they don't even have the same level of defensive technology as the lowliest imperial preacher. I really don't think a 4++ item of some description would have been totally broken.

Menthak
17-11-2013, 20:47
Wow. No troops, no nothing really.

It's basically a Grey Knights codex with 90% stripped away? Nothing unique, nothing worthwhile, shame.

As I posted a while back in the "What are we to expect from the Codex: Inquisition"


Disappointment.

Seems I was more or less right on the money.

MagicHat
17-11-2013, 21:16
I'm not sure that's really true, the best way to build a Sororitas conclave is a meat shield of crusaders and fill up on cheap Arcos (which the Inq warbands pay 50% more for) so I think there is still a place for the Ecclesiarchy warband. The Inq version is just more flexible, I'm toying with the idea of 3 plasma cannon servitors with a psyocculum inquisitor to give them BS10 templates vs anything psychic, perhaps chuck in a few crusaders as mobile "cover". The CC build for the Inq warband isn't any more potent than the Ecclesiarchy one, its just more expensive (unless you just take Crusaders and DCAs), the only advantage that the Inq warband has is in its transport options, but not everyone wants to bring a land raider.

I would contest that, since Inquisition henchmen have power weapon rather then power sword.
3 arco with 12 A, versus 2 DCA with 9 A using power sword/mace versus:
Orks, 6+ save:
Arco 4.3 kills.
DCA 4.9 kills.
Orks, 4+ save:
Arco 2.6 kills.
DCA still 4.9.
GEQ, 5+:
Arco 4.3 kills.
DCA 4.9 kills.
GEQ 4+ save:
Arco 3.2 kills.
DCA 4.9 kills (mauls FTW).
MEQ:
Arco 1.7 kills.
DCA 2.97 kills.
TEQ:
Arco 0.8 kills.
DCA 0.78 kills.

Arco do have one more body, but DCA striking I6 versus Arcos 3 means that the enemy have less to punch back with. Add in LR transport and I would say that the Inquisitor warband is superior in CC.


I think the biggest wtf moment for me was realising that Hereticus/Xenos inquisitors cannot get an inv save by any means, which is monumentally retarded, and Malleus Inqs can only get one by wearing termi armour. I mean we're basically talking about the Imperium's secret police force, with access to stacks of super-advanced alien tech, and yet they don't even have the same level of defensive technology as the lowliest imperial preacher. I really don't think a 4++ item of some description would have been totally broken.

Yeah, that one is really odd.

A.T.
17-11-2013, 23:22
I'd be careful about saying "entirely".ok - entirely from the point of view of a sisters player, unless arcos are wanted.


(Unless the Inquisition version can still have power maul/power sword DCA, which is a big-ish deal.)They can.


I assure you that attaching a Liber Heresius Inquisitor who hid behind LoS-blocking terrain and a Vindicare did at some point become standard for any SM or IG army in a tournament.The old vindicare? Wasn't that good. Picking your table edge was a good trick for 40pts, if only on an Ld8 test. The malleus tarot/mystic inquisitor seemed more favoured, and the callidus.

Aluinn
18-11-2013, 00:58
ok - entirely from the point of view of a sisters player, unless arcos are wanted.

They can.

The old vindicare? Wasn't that good. Picking your table edge was a good trick for 40pts, if only on an Ld8 test. The malleus tarot/mystic inquisitor seemed more favoured, and the callidus.

Okay the ability to choose power weapon types certainly makes Inq. DCA better, I'll admit. I guess there is still a little tradeoff in the cheaper Arcos, but yeah, the Inquisition unit is probably superior in abstract.

And well, the Vindicare was more popular hereabouts but suffice it to say that some kind of cheapo Inquisitor and some Assassin became fairly standard and I would say abused, even if it wasn't game-breaking, so I'd stand by the assertion that separating them might be a balance thing rather than a cynical attempt to cash in on a hypothetical Codex: Assassins (which would be even more thin than Codex: Inquisition--granted it has existed before, but as a freebie bundled with WD). But I can't read the minds of GW devs or marketing, so I could certainly be wrong.

Dryaktylus
18-11-2013, 12:20
I would contest that, since Inquisition henchmen have power weapon rather then power sword.

We'll see if this stays. Digital books are easy to update - like giving Coteaz' psyber-eagle its stats.

duffybear1988
18-11-2013, 12:30
I don't have the book but I've heard the chimera has access to psybolt ammo which is nice. Also, Matt has an article on 3plusplus.net that explains why this supplement drastically changes the game.

Game changing?! Pull the other one. The only way this would be game changing is if nobody bought it in the first place and made GW look like the idiots they are.

All this codex does is make gunlines even more prevalent as everyone takes a divination inquisitor, stocks up on grenades and servo skulls. I'm not seeing any real change at all (unless you count people quitting through boredom).

zero88
18-11-2013, 18:34
So general consensus is this isn't worth the money?

Spiney Norman
18-11-2013, 18:47
So general consensus is this isn't worth the money?

Well it depends what you already own.

If you have the GK codex then you already have 98% of the profiles anyway (everything except the priest which is in Adepta Sororitas and the Valkyrie in IG), if you already have the rule book for the Inquisitor game then you pretty much have all the fluff and background on inquisitors of legend and the different Inquisitorial Philosophies (which I actually found really interesting).

I would say if you don't own either of those publications (as I don't) then you could maybe feel satisfied that you got something worthwhile for your money, the artwork is pretty patchy if I'm honest, some of it is really good, some of it is terrible, most of it is recycled from somewhere else.

I was slightly disappointed that the 3rd Ed Witch Hunters cover art didn't feature anywhere, because that is one of my most favourite 40k art works of all time, on the other hand the picture on p.27 of the Xenos Inquisitor attacking a mutated Eldar guardian on a daemon world with a harlequins kiss is pretty sweet too.

The Lion's Shade
18-11-2013, 21:48
Yeah wish they'd stuck with Demon Hunters so much more badass than singling out Grey Knights.

Spiney Norman
18-11-2013, 22:42
Yeah wish they'd stuck with Demon Hunters so much more badass than singling out Grey Knights.

For what its worth I wish they'd stuck with Witch Hunters instead of gutting the Sisters of Battle List and producing this separately. This codex plus assassins would have been brilliant as part of the Adepta Sororitas Codex. But you can't have everything I guess.

Beppo1234
21-11-2013, 01:28
looks like all they did is make a 2 HQ + 3 Elites optional allied detachment for inquisitors and henchmen squads... plus some extra rules.

Dryaktylus
21-11-2013, 13:45
Got an answer from GW Digital:


There is an update for Codex: Inquisition. If you have an iBooks copy, it will update soon, if you have the eBook from Black Library you can re-download it now.
Basically, yes, Death Cult Assassins all have 'Power Swords', as do Crusaders.

I dont believe arch flagellants have changed.

- Eddie

Edit: Another statement on the FB page:


You can ally two Inquisitorial forces together as long as one is your primary detachment.
There's an update on the way that clears up that confusion.
If you bought the eBook from Black Library, you can download an up to date copy from the 'My Downloads' section of your account now.
If you have an iBook one, it will update automatically soon.

- Eddie

Spiney Norman
21-11-2013, 13:52
Yep, looks like we got the worst of all worlds, downgraded to power swords and inexplicably 50% more expensive Arco-flags. That's a shame, at least I did manage to get a game in with my axe-wielding crusaders where they didn't have to pretend they were using swords.

Sgt John Keel
21-11-2013, 19:20
Bah, the Crusader artwork in C:WH even has a power axe!

Amendera
21-11-2013, 20:52
Is it worth getting this "book" or just use GK's inquisition section?

It doesn't seem like you are gaining anything except a look into how GK will be updated, i.e. sans Inq inside.

Seath_Tt
21-11-2013, 22:12
Only head scratcher I have is no option for Assassins.

Well, they had a codex: assassins in the past, I would not doubt that they will come out with another digital-only dex for assassins. They'll make more money that way :)

Spider-pope
21-11-2013, 22:38
Is it worth getting this "book" or just use GK's inquisition section?

It doesn't seem like you are gaining anything except a look into how GK will be updated, i.e. sans Inq inside.

If you don't mind having to take a special character to make henchmen troops, or like using Grey Knights, then i'd say stick with the Grey Knight codex and save your money. While it's nice to have the option of more Warlord traits and relics, there's nothing in the digi-dex that i'd consider massively better than the GK book.

Retrospectus
21-11-2013, 23:21
good for themed armies. I plan on taking a xeno inquisitor for my guardsmen and using my still open ally slot for space marines representing deathwatch.

A.T.
21-11-2013, 23:38
there's nothing in the digi-dex that i'd consider massively better than the GK book.The priest.
In the AS book it's the old sacred rites army-wide rule crammed onto one model for the sake of expediency and due to the combat-inept nature of the sisters and lack of assault vehicles it doesn't really break anything.
In the inquisition book it's a couple of points for rerollable 3++ invulnerable saves in combat and rerolling to hit and to wound with roaming bands of scoring hammerhand/rad grenade enhanced crusaders and death cultists.