PDA

View Full Version : Standard of Discipline



InstantKarma
20-11-2013, 14:09
Just a quick question. I keep seeing people posting potential lists and talking about the Standard of Discipline doing things like 'making my general ld 10' or something to that effect.

I'm having trouble seeing how this would work, as the item description in the BRB seems to clearly state that a unit that contains the Standard of Discipline CANNOT use the General's Inspiring Presence special rule.

So my question is, how are people either missing this or making it work? Was there an FAQ that changed this, or is this some funny reading of the rules that I'm just missing?

Edited for typo.

Makaber
20-11-2013, 14:24
The thing is, the unit with the Standard of Discipline can't use the generals Inspiring Presence, but once you put the general inside the unit, they don't have to (because he's in the unit anyway). But the general still benefits from the banner raising his/her Leadership, which in turn is transferred to other units (than the one carrying the banner) via Inspiring Presence. See?

It's a bit silly and I doubt that's how the banner was intended to work, but as it is, it's a steal for 15 points.

Ed.: Oh, and it's perfectly fine by the rules and a FAQ backs it up, so no problems there.

InstantKarma
20-11-2013, 14:29
The thing is, the unit with the Standard of Discipline can't use the generals Inspiring Presence, but once you put the general inside the unit, they don't have to (because he's in the unit anyway). But the general still benefits from the banner raising his/her Leadership, which in turn is transferred to other units (than the one carrying the banner) via Inspiring Presence. See?

It's a bit silly and I doubt that's how the banner was intended to work, but as it is, it's a steal for 15 points.

Ed.: Oh, and it's perfectly fine by the rules and a FAQ backs it up, so no problems there.

That is rather silly, but it makes sense. I was seeing an OnG player talking about making his Warboss Ld 10 with Banner and I was getting all kinds of confused.

Makaber
20-11-2013, 14:36
I understand your confusion. I think the Standard of Discipline loophope and the bargain cost of Crown of Command is detrimental to the game. Combined with Steadfast it's just too hard to break units, meaning cavalry loses a lot of its appeal, leading to the horde-regiment slugfests we see today. Fixing those two would alone lead to a much more dynamic game, I think.

Djekar
20-11-2013, 15:12
You see horde regiment slugfests? I need to play where you are playing! But yeah, Makaber has hit the nail on the head in reference to your question, IK.

Makaber
20-11-2013, 15:36
You see horde regiment slugfests? I need to play where you are playing! But yeah, Makaber has hit the nail on the head in reference to your question, IK.

Well I guess it's changed now. I've barely played Warhammer for two years actually.

Skullcrusher
21-11-2013, 08:44
You see horde regiment slugfests? I need to play where you are playing! But yeah, Makaber has hit the nail on the head in reference to your question, IK.
Well I guess it's changed now. I've barely played Warhammer for two years actually.
Yeah, hordes aren't that popular anymore, thanks to new armybooks. Typical WoC army for example has 30-40 models. :D

Makaber
21-11-2013, 09:58
While I'm a bit out of the loop, I severely doubt the current Warriors of Chaos status as top dawgs suddenly means people start bringing 24 Orc Boyz to the table, though. I still use 40 Savage Orc Big 'Unz with additional choppa as a yardstick for my mathhammer when I try to figure my chances against a "tough unit".

Rake
21-11-2013, 10:10
Weird. Our meta is hyper horde heavy.

Skullcrusher
21-11-2013, 10:19
While I'm a bit out of the loop, I severely doubt the current Warriors of Chaos status as top dawgs suddenly means people start bringing 24 Orc Boyz to the table, though. I still use 40 Savage Orc Big 'Unz with additional choppa as a yardstick for my mathhammer when I try to figure my chances against a "tough unit".
Of course people still use Savage orc big 'un hordes and beastmen gor/bestigor hordes, but that's pretty much it. No more bloodletter hordes, no more marauder hordes, etc. Before the new WoC and DoC armybooks these armies were really popular, and they used hordes very often. Now they are still very popular but never use any hordes => amount of hordes in meta has decreased drastically.

jirgaS
21-11-2013, 10:25
Hordes all the way. 50 strong chaos warrior unit is a nice thing to have on the table. On 4000+ size battles that is. crown of command and standard of discipline combo is still a bit silly though.

Roshan
21-11-2013, 10:32
actually I would agree outside of the cheaper races Hordes are becoming less and less. Monster mash seems to be on the rise again.

Rake
21-11-2013, 10:50
Guess its the armies we use. Empire: Halberd Hordes.
Orcs: Everything hordes
Undead: Ghoul/GG/Crypt Horror Hordes
Elves: White Lion Horde/PG Horde
And eventually there will be a beastman army which will horde... if I ever get around to it...
But yeah. Crown of Command should not exist and steadfast should be breakable... But then again it all comes down to magic in this edition :P

Yowzo
21-11-2013, 12:12
Guess its the armies we use. Empire: Halberd Hordes.
Orcs: Everything hordes
Undead: Ghoul/GG/Crypt Horror Hordes
Elves: White Lion Horde/PG Horde
And eventually there will be a beastman army which will horde... if I ever get around to it...
But yeah. Crown of Command should not exist and steadfast should be breakable... But then again it all comes down to magic in this edition :P

Don't agree at all with elves. Typical unit sizes for PG or lions on a 2500 game are in the low 20s ballpark. 21 or 24 most of the time.

Henry_37
21-11-2013, 12:44
Don't agree at all with elves. Typical unit sizes for PG or lions on a 2500 game are in the low 20s ballpark. 21 or 24 most of the time.

The elf player I play against always has a horde of either Lions (they're the dudes with axes right?) or swordmasters and that is at 1500pts.

But i didn't check his maths...:shifty:

InstantKarma
21-11-2013, 13:04
The elf player I play against always has a horde of either Lions (they're the dudes with axes right?) or swordmasters and that is at 1500pts.

But i didn't check his maths...:shifty:

If that one unit is pushing 1500 thats no horde...thats a deathstar ;)

I mean, hording even 50 WLs with FC isn't going to run 1500, so it's gotta be loaded up with Lord, BSB etc.

Rake
21-11-2013, 13:34
I agree with the 20-24 model per unit with one caveat: thats the number of models that need to make it to CC. So 30ish for a unit you want to be able to go toe to toe with your opponents horde/deathstar is not unreasonable... Maybe not nice, but certainly not unreasonable. I would rather have 1 unit guaranteed to knock the stuffing out of my opponents main battle line than 2 units that almost make it and bounce off. 20-24 looks good on paper. 30 performs.

Yowzo
21-11-2013, 13:37
The elf player I play against always has a horde of either Lions (they're the dudes with axes right?) or swordmasters and that is at 1500pts.

But i didn't check his maths...:shifty:

40 WL with FC and BotWD run about 600 points, so that should be legal at 1500. There are some good tactical reasons people are mov ing away from deathstars (other than maybe gutstars).

Imperator64
22-11-2013, 10:09
Read that post again. Slowly. He's saying a 1500pt game not a 1500pt unit.

boli
09-12-2013, 12:56
The elf player I play against always has a horde of either Lions (they're the dudes with axes right?) or swordmasters and that is at 1500pts.

But i didn't check his maths...:shifty:

(from the aforementioned elf player)

40 White Lions (10x4) is 550 points ;) (Sword Masters same cost; Phoenix guard 630). Now... a horde of 38 Silverhelms with full command (Heavy Cavalry) is 904 points and that's in core ;)

Personally I prefer the 7-wide units (21 & 28) at the 1.5k range but in both cases most elf lists are designed to deal as much "upfront damage" as possible maximising on their high initiative and always strike first as they really suffer when they start to receive attacks back.

Also: Its much easier to deal with leadership tests and the standard of discipline if you win combat; so I see this more of an Orc / Empire gimic more than an Elf or Chaos one.