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Minigiant
20-11-2013, 16:07
A big thank you to everyone who has contributed to my other army list thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?384332-2-Competitve-2000pt-Woc-Armies) as i narrow down further and further onto my competitive WoC army list. Having written numerous WoC lists these past few weeks i finally feel like im close to being as refined as possible and I have finally reached a list that

1. I feel Comfortable with
2. Is Refined and Competitive

The Current list has come a long way off my original inspiration. It is now a 2000 army list coming in on the dot and is intended for top tier competitive play upon my return to the UK after my current year abroad in Canada.

Considering the meta i will be going into is one of a top tier competitive environment of winning comes first. The lists seen a generally ones that if piloted correctly and a few good dice rolls can win most tournaments. I cant tell you what races i will be facing because a) Ive been in Canada for a while now b)Haven't played fantasy for longer than that.

The game plan is by far not the most elegant ever devised but that is how i feel WoC play best. The list has two distinct elements that work together and among themselves. Part 1 consists of the dual Hellcannons, Chimera and Nurgle daemon prince and Part 2 concentrates around a block of Warriors of Chaos led by a Rock solid BSB. Hammer and Anvil in its simplest terms. The Chariots are used to break units held up by the warriors and hopefully at the same time break the back of the opponents army and the hounds are there to protect the elements of part 2 at all costs

UPDATED
3 Previous army lists
Mark I
Army List 1 -
LORD - Demon Prince: 500pts
Lvl 4 Death, Wings, Chaos Armour, Scaled skin, Sword of Striking, Charmed shield, Dragonbane Gem, Soul Feeder, Mark of Nurgle

HERO - The Troll King Throgg: 195 pts

CORE - 5 Hounds: 30 pts
CORE - 5 Hounds: 30 pts
CORE - 5 Hounds: 30 pts

CORE - 6 Chaos Trolls: 228 pts
- Additional Hand Weapon
CORE - 6 Chaos Trolls: 228pts
- Additional Hand Weapon

CORE - Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle

SPECIAL - Gorebeast Chariot: 140 pts
Mark of Nurgle

SPECIAL - Chimera: 275 pts
Regenerating Flesh, Fiery Breath

RARE - Dragon Ogre Shaggoth: 220 pts
- Additional Hand Weapon

Army List 2 -
LORD - Demon Prince: 500pts
Lvl 4 Death, Wings, Chaos Armour, Scaled skin, Sword of Striking, Charmed shield, Dragonbane Gem, Soul Feeder, Mark of Nurgle

HERO - The Troll King Throgg: 195 pts

CORE - 5 Hounds: 30 pts
CORE - 5 Hounds: 30 pts
CORE - 5 Hounds: 30 pts

CORE - 6 Chaos Trolls: 228 pts
- Additional Hand Weapon
CORE - 5 Chaos Trolls: 190pts
- Additional Hand Weapon

SPECIAL - Gorebeast Chariot: 140 pts
Mark of Nurgle

SPECIAL - Gorebeast Chariot: 140 pts
Mark of Nurgle

SPECIAL - Chimera: 275 pts
Regenerating Flesh, Fiery Breath

RARE – 3 Skullcrushers: 234 pts
- Enscrolled weapons

Mark II
Army List 3 -
LORD – Demon Prince: 465pts
Lvl 3 Death , Wings, Chaos Armour, Scaled skin, Sword of Striking, Charmed shield, Dragonbane Gem, Soul Feeder, Mark of Nurgle

HERO – Exalted Hero: 190pts
Battle Standard bearer, Mark of Nurgle, Talisman of Endurance, Enchanted shield, Chalice of Chaos

CORE – 5 Hounds: 40 pts
Vanguard
CORE – 5 Hounds: 40 pts
Vanguard

CORE – 17 Chaos Warriors: 319 pts
Full command, Mark of Nurgle, Shields

CORE – Chaos Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle
CORE – Chaos Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle

SPECIAL – Chimera: 275 pts
Regenerating flesh, Flaming Breathe

RARE – Hellcannon 210pts
RARE – Hellcannon 210pts



So what i took from the feedback from these two army lists was that i needed greater fortitude, difficulty in winning banner scenarios and needing a BSB so to address these I dropped Throgg and his trolls for a BSB and a block of Warriors. I had to tweak points around so gorebeasts were downgraded to standard chariots and i also decided i wanted to participate in every phase so i added two hellcannons

anyway here is the Mark III list:

LORD – Demon Prince: 500pts
Lvl 4 Death, Wings, Chaos Armour, Scaled skin, Sword of Striking, Charmed shield, Dragonbane Gem, Soul Feeder, Mark of Nurgle

HERO – Exalted Hero: 239pt
Battle Standard bearer, Mark of Tzeentch, Talisman of preservation, Third eye of Tzeentch , Disc of Tzeentch, Great weapon, Shield

CORE – 5 Hounds: 30 pts
CORE – 5 Hounds: 30 pts
CORE – 5 Hounds: 30 pts

CORE – Chaos Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle
CORE – Chaos Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle
CORE – Chaos Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle

CORE – Marauder Horsemen: 100pts
Musician, Standard bearer, Mark of Slaanesh, Shields

SPECIAL – Chimera: 275 pts
Regenerating flesh, Flaming Breathe

RARE – Hellcannon 210pts
RARE – Hellcannon 210pts

1999pts


So what do you think? Improvement? Will it do well?

For anyone who is interested the army is having a Maritime Lovecraftian theme which can be explained further below


Conversions
A Maritime Lovecraftian style Warriors of Chaos army with Nautical features some examples of conversion ideas:

Throgg –
Using Orcs and Goblins River Trolls, but instead of a giant club, he’s holding a huge anchor with a tentacle arm plus some extra tentacles coming out of his back, some fish webbing inbetween is arms and chest and This head (https://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/deepwars/dagathonan-salvager.html)

Trolls – Orcs and Goblins River Trolls

Warriors of Chaos + Heroes – Warriors of Chaos + Maxmini Biohazard diver helmet (http://maxmini.eu/conversion-bits/head-swaps/biohazard-heads-bits) (2nd from the left)

Forsaken – Forsaken + Victoria miniatures cthood-alien-heads (http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/cthood-alien-heads) + only fishy mutations

Marauders – Empire Flagellant + Victoria miniatures cthood-alien-heads (http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/cthood-alien-heads)

Warhounds – Evil squid or crabs

Gorebeast Chariot – Squid Howdah
For the chariots I would think a chariot base being pulled by agiant squid (http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStor...sku-down/88485).Kinda like a Howdah on a squid head.

Chimera – Toad Dragon + Vampire Counts Zombie Dragon Wings

Dragon Ogre Shaggoth – (Kraken Ogre Shaggoth)

Skullcrushers - Chaos Warriors "Knights" (See above) riding Forgeworld Plague toads (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/NURGLE-PLAGUE-TOADS.html)

Fluff -
The gaze of the Plague Lord over Innsmouth

The narrator is a student on a sightseeing tour of Ferlangen who learns of the existence of a coastal town a day’s rides North West of Ferlangen called Innsmouth. Following a strange epidemic and rioting in the last century fell into such decay and depopulation that it is not shown on maps. Although he is cautioned that Innsmouth is avoided because of "race prejudice" against the townspeople and those visitors sometimes disappear or go insane, he decides to go there anyways. He finds the inhabitants have a repulsive appearance and the whole town reeks of corruption, most houses are boarded up and apparently derelict.

Interested in folklore, the narrator locates an elderly local drunk known for his tall tales, and is told of how seafaring inhabitants of Innsmouth generations before voyaged across the Sea of Claws where they found a cult that practiced human sacrifice to placate immortal undersea creatures. A pact with the creatures was made and they were brought to Innsmouth to dwell on an offshore reef and be worshiped, in exchange the undersea creatures provided gold. The townsfolk revolted against the human sacrifices, but they were defeated by a nocturnal invasion by the creatures, those of the inhabitants not killed agreed to join the cult and keep its secrets. They were also forced to intermarry with the creatures; the children resulting from these marriages appear human, but become undersea creatures in later life.

The young man takes the old drunk's story as totally fantastic, but finds he must stay overnight, which he earlier had been warned against. He flees from the hotel during an attempt on his life, and finds himself pursued by strangely inhuman looking shapes, with reinforcements swarming ashore to aid in hunting him down. Leaving the town he finally sees them clearly in the moonlight, and confronted with the reality that they are a hybrid race, half-human and half an unknown creature that resembles a cross between a fish and a frog, the narrator blacks out.

Daemon Prince Fluff -
Around the cold southern coasts of the Sea of claws lurks K'thul-hu, one of the eldest of the Plague Lords creatures: a mighty scaled and slimed monster arrayed with unearthly limbs and snapping jaws, encrusted with parasites and hardened skin and possessing an implacable, malign intelligence that even the town of Innsmouth fears. K'thul-hu 's dark renown ensures many wild tales are told of it, tales of ships and their crews pulled beneath the waves by a tentacled, evil-smelling leviathan and shieldwalls shattered by a lumbering monstrosity from the deeps that has no right to walk, let alone fly over the land. Yet most such tales are no myth, for like all stories the truth is there for those that are willing to see, and when K'thul-hu rises against the enemies of the Plague Lord and devours them bodily those tales are remembered and finally understood for the dire warnings they are.



There we have it, tell me what you think

Kingly
20-11-2013, 16:28
Good god that's horrible.

(In a good way)

I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with Hell Cannons, they're amazing. High Toughness, loads of wounds and they can attack in CC. Can't really afford to just ignore them as a High Elf player as that generally means your tasty unit dies in droves...Are the blasts classed as magical?

I would say your weakness is lack of models but that's obvious, you can also be quite easily out manoeuvred as dogs don't really last long do they. But then anything trying to "Go around the sides" can be shot at or charged by Deamon Prince of doom and nastiness.

Good list mate, MoN on a chariot...You mean mean man! ;D

Minigiant
20-11-2013, 19:26
Good god that's horrible.

(In a good way)

I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with Hell Cannons, they're amazing. High Toughness, loads of wounds and they can attack in CC. Can't really afford to just ignore them as a High Elf player as that generally means your tasty unit dies in droves...Are the blasts classed as magical?

Thank you

Yes the attacks are magical so your special banner can save you.

rydhus
21-11-2013, 09:33
i would recomment halberds on warriors. Str 5 ignores heavy armor / light armor & shield saves.
Just a question, is it legal to give Scaled skin to two characters? I thought you can have only 1 time in a list.
No flaming breath on chimera? It's almost a must imo.

Kingly
21-11-2013, 10:34
Seconded for the flaming breath, lost 18 Swordmasters in one gout in a tourni last week, almost cost us the game.

Minigiant
21-11-2013, 12:21
Thank you everyone for your replies, everything helps


i would recomment halberds on warriors. Str 5 ignores heavy armor / light armor & shield saves.
Just a question, is it legal to give Scaled skin to two characters? I thought you can have only 1 time in a list.
No flaming breath on chimera? It's almost a must imo.

Halberds are indeed great but in a list this points tight i can not find the 50+ points to take them :-(. Also as this unit is intended purely as a defensive anchor i can see no issue with hand weapon and shield.

Yes you are correct i cant take scaly skin twice in my army list, just been pointed this out on another site too, know idea on how to fix this currently, any ideas?

No flaming breathe but not because i dont want too, but because points are tight, any ideas on how to get the points for it? A cheaper BSB is my only thought but again no idea how

All further opinions and constructive criticisms are welcome

Edit:

What about this set up?:

HERO – Exalted Hero: 190pts
Battle Standard bearer, Mark of Nurgle, Talisman of Endurance, Enchanted shield, Chalice of Chaos

Minigiant
21-11-2013, 23:26
Bump, Army list updated to fix BSB bearer mistake

Dirty Mac
22-11-2013, 06:53
Well, you are going to have to find points for a 2nd wizard with a dispel scroll, if you want to remain competitive i think. Also you could put your Bsb on a Demonic mount to give him extra toughness, and you can still put him in the warriors I think.

rydhus
22-11-2013, 08:13
If you put the BSB on a mount you can still put him in the warriors. As long as they have the same mark. BSB with enchanted shield and mount is 1+ armor save.
I still have a trouble with this list, because half the list wants to go foreward while the other half wants to lure the enemy out. Unless you go and charge with your hellcannons, you will end up with you DP and chimera on the oposite side of the board while the rest defends the cannons.

I think vanguard is a waste of points on the dogs. You want to run them as cheap as possible. And i dont see how vanguard has any good use in a WoC army.

Skullcrusher
22-11-2013, 10:50
Looks pretty solid list, but upgrade your DP to level 4. No level 4 wizard and no dispel scroll = you're gonna have a bad time.

Also, walking BSB is just waste of points. Exalted hero on barded daemonic mount, mark of tzeentch, great weapon, shield, talisman of preservation, third eye of teentch for example would be a lot better build. It's has high movement and is unkillable, which is nice.

Those warriors are way too slow to be effective. I'd drop them and take third chariot, more dogs and some marauder horsemen.


I think vanguard is a waste of points on the dogs. You want to run them as cheap as possible. And i dont see how vanguard has any good use in a WoC army.
Extra mobility is always handy. With vanguard it's easier to get them into right places and redirect right things. Plus it's nice to be able to block opponent's vanguards.

Minigiant
22-11-2013, 14:22
Well, you are going to have to find points for a 2nd wizard with a dispel scroll, if you want to remain competitive i think.

Looks pretty solid list, but upgrade your DP to level 4. No level 4 wizard and no dispel scroll = you're gonna have a bad time.
You are most definitely correct here and at the time i knew no other way to find the points for it but based on the comment by skullcrusher to swapping warriors to chariots, I may now have the points for the Level 4.

Also you could put your Bsb on a Demonic mount to give him extra toughness, and you can still put him in the warriors I think.

If you put the BSB on a mount you can still put him in the warriors. As long as they have the same mark. BSB with enchanted shield and mount is 1+ armor save.

Also, walking BSB is just waste of points. Exalted hero on barded daemonic mount, mark of tzeentch, great weapon, shield, talisman of preservation, third eye of teentch for example would be a lot better build. It's has high movement and is unkillable, which is nice.
So what im getting here is, rework BSB. I plan to drop the warriors (as explained below) for a chariot core. If so, still go with a demonic mount or (If Mark of Tzeentch) a Disc of Tzeentch?


I think vanguard is a waste of points on the dogs. You want to run them as cheap as possible. And i dont see how vanguard has any good use in a WoC army.

Extra mobility is always handy. With vanguard it's easier to get them into right places and redirect right things. Plus it's nice to be able to block opponent's vanguards.
In all honesty, Vanguard was here merely because I had 20 points to spare and very few places to spend it productively


Those warriors are way too slow to be effective. I'd drop them and take third chariot, more dogs and some marauder horsemen.

I still have a trouble with this list, because half the list wants to go foreward while the other half wants to lure the enemy out. Unless you go and charge with your hellcannons, you will end up with you DP and chimera on the oposite side of the board while the rest defends the cannons.
I have no concern with the Hellcannons being left behind because they are able to look after themselves in most situations and by the Daemon prince flying in front it means im less likely to kill him off thanks to a Hellcannon misfire. So apart from those I can see the issue of warriros being too slow so Im going to do a rewrite with a Chariot based core

Edit:
A provisional Mark III Army list


LORD – Demon Prince: 500pts
Lvl 4 Death, Wings, Chaos Armour, Scaled skin, Sword of Striking, Charmed shield, Dragonbane Gem, Soul Feeder, Mark of Nurgle

HERO – Exalted Hero: 239pt
Battle Standard bearer, Mark of Tzeentch, Talisman of preservation, Third eye of Tzeentch , Disc of Tzeentch, Great weapon, Shield

CORE – 5 Hounds: 30 pts
CORE – 5 Hounds: 30 pts

CORE – Chaos Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle
CORE – Chaos Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle
CORE – Chaos Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle
CORE – Chaos Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle

SPECIAL – Chimera: 275 pts
Regenerating flesh, Flaming Breathe

RARE – Hellcannon 210pts
RARE – Hellcannon 210pts

1994pts

Dirty Mac
23-11-2013, 07:23
I wouldn't worry about warriors being too slow really, You could always give them the banner of swiftness if you must,
Chariots are great but I think you need an infantry block that has Static combat res, I might be wrong but.

You still have no dispel scroll, I would put your BSB on a demonic mount for the extra Toughness and an extra wound., Sure the disk can fly, But you need your BSB near you other troops to be of any use.

Have a look at this list maybe?

Same Demon Prince,

LORD – Demon Prince: 500pts
Lvl 4 Death, Wings, Chaos Armour, Scaled skin, Sword of Striking, Charmed shield, Dragonbane Gem, Soul Feeder, Mark of Nurgle

HERO – Exalted Hero: 244pts
Battle Standard bearer, Mark of Tzeentch, Talisman of preservation, Third eye of Tzeentch , Demonic Mount, Great weapon, Shield.

23 Warriors Mark of Nurgle Halberds , Shields ,FC, Banner of Swiftness 505pts

Sorc lvl 1 , Dispel scroll 135

Hell Cannon 210 pts

Nurgle Chariot 125

1994 points.

Minigiant
23-11-2013, 16:48
I wouldn't worry about warriors being too slow really, You could always give them the banner of swiftness if you must,
Chariots are great but I think you need an infantry block that has Static combat res, I might be wrong but.

You still have no dispel scroll, I would put your BSB on a demonic mount for the extra Toughness and an extra wound., Sure the disk can fly, But you need your BSB near you other troops to be of any use.


The issue i am having with your constructive criticisms is i dont know where to get the points from especially as for Mark III i sacrificed the footsloggers in order to get a BSB that is of an acceptable standard. This is of course down to the fact im unwilling to drop the daemon prince, Chimera and dual hellcannons.

Of course i am new to WFB so unsure on whether i need an Infantry block for static combat res but there are armies that don't; all cavalry armies spring to mind. So i will ask the general consensus

ATTENTION EVERYONE:

DO WoC NEED STATIC COMBAT RES? e.g Infantry blocks

@DirtyMac. I have 5 points spare so a demonic mount is indeed feasible and i have swayed between the two; increased toughness and wounds over having a 3rd flying model. Thats what its coming down too in my opinion

Skullcrusher
23-11-2013, 21:46
WoC doesn't need infantry. I've won three tournaments without any infantry since the release of the new book. Chariots, marauder horsemen & hounds just are better.

And about Dirty Mac's list: 135 points is just too much for dispel scroll. Those points are spent better in chimera/hellcannon.

Mark III army list looks really good. I'd take mark slaanesh instead of nurgle for chariots though, as slaanesh is better and cheaper. You'd get one extra unit of vanguard hounds with those points. Daemonic mount vs. disc is a hard choice, I pretty much always use daemonic mount, Dirty Mac already explained why. But I guess it's down to personal preference, both are really good choices. Play some test games and use the one you like more.

Minigiant
24-11-2013, 03:09
WoC doesn't need infantry. I've won three tournaments without any infantry since the release of the new book. Chariots, marauder horsemen & hounds just are better.

And about Dirty Mac's list: 135 points is just too much for dispel scroll. Those points are spent better in chimera/hellcannon.

Mark III army list looks really good. I'd take mark slaanesh instead of nurgle for chariots though, as slaanesh is better and cheaper. You'd get one extra unit of vanguard hounds with those points. Daemonic mount vs. disc is a hard choice, I pretty much always use daemonic mount, Dirty Mac already explained why. But I guess it's down to personal preference, both are really good choices. Play some test games and use the one you like more.

This is reassuring, thank you. I was considering dropping just 1 chariot in my Mark III list to insert a small unit of marauder horsemen with another standard (Good point here) and a musician, as well as another unit of hounds

Dirty Mac
24-11-2013, 06:57
I am new to WoC as well, and was just offering advice, Please let us know how your army does in it's battles, Thanks.

Minigiant
24-11-2013, 13:26
I am new to WoC as well, and was just offering advice, Please let us know how your army does in it's battles, Thanks.

I hope what i wrote you didnt take personally. I just re read it and i can see how i might have come across that way. If it has im sorry

Here is my Mark III list:

LORD – Demon Prince: 500pts
Lvl 4 Death, Wings, Chaos Armour, Scaled skin, Sword of Striking, Charmed shield, Dragonbane Gem, Soul Feeder, Mark of Nurgle

HERO – Exalted Hero: 239pt
Battle Standard bearer, Mark of Tzeentch, Talisman of preservation, Third eye of Tzeentch , Disc of Tzeentch, Great weapon, Shield

CORE – 5 Hounds: 30 pts
CORE – 5 Hounds: 30 pts
CORE – 5 Hounds: 30 pts

CORE – Chaos Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle
CORE – Chaos Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle
CORE – Chaos Chariot: 125 pts
Mark of Nurgle

CORE – Marauder Horsemen: 100pts
Musician, Standard bearer, Mark of Slaanesh, Shields

SPECIAL – Chimera: 275 pts
Regenerating flesh, Flaming Breathe

RARE – Hellcannon 210pts
RARE – Hellcannon 210pts

1999pts

I think this list looks particularly strong now, what do you think?

Dirty Mac
24-11-2013, 19:14
I hope what i wrote you didnt take personally. I just re read it and i can see how i might have come across that way. If it has im sorry


I don't take offense to words on the internet, so don't worry about it, I just meant that Magic plays a big part in my gaming circle, and a Dispel scroll has kept me from losing the game in a single phase.

Minigiant
26-11-2013, 13:33
I don't take offense to words on the internet, so don't worry about it, I just meant that Magic plays a big part in my gaming circle, and a Dispel scroll has kept me from losing the game in a single phase.

glad to know

Mark III is now updated to what i hope is its final form, dropped a chariot for more chaff and some fast cavalry. BSB remains on the Disc of Tzeentch