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Lord Squidar
20-11-2013, 22:17
Hi all,

I have this idea, not necessarily going to make an army from it just thought it would be cool. Its a sucessor chapter from the Iron Hands that fully believes that "Flesh is weak" but takes it to the next level that the brain specifically is weak, and replaces parts of it in new marines.

So the idea is that at some point in the past, an Iron Hands crusade failed because their commander made a bad judgement call that put the lives of marines forward against the humans they were protecting. Marines died and as a result, the crusade was taken over by the 2ic, who just so happened to have augmetic brain parts. The rest of the campaign went well, and the commander aided this by making cold, calculated and brutal decisisions. A sub cult formed within the crusade that called for all Iron Hands to remove the parts of the brain governing compassion, emotion and feelings and place them with cogitating units to help make calculations and logical choices. Over time, this cult grew in number to break away from the main chapter (not sure how this happens just yet).

The new chapter (Iron Brains, haha!) is fleet based and is notorious amongst Imperial commanders for the high casualty rate for allies on their operations. They get the job done though, and move around the galaxy doing their thing, although Imperial commanders come up with all sorts of excuses not to be attached under their command. Amongst the Chapter, its a great honour for one to die with their brain intact, so they can be interred inside their helmets and join other fallen battle brothers in a connected network of marine tactical servo skulls. Those who cannot join the network, due to having head blown apart or something, are dishonoured and removed from the Chapter records. The inquisition has got wind of these traditions and recons the servo network is quiet possibly the most powerful cogitator in the galaxy, and want it for themselves. The chapter thus comes under lots of scrutiny from the Inquisition, and they really don't get on well. The space wolves and salamanders dont like them either, so the Chapter stays space borne to avoid them all.

Thats all I have so far, what do you guys think, any name suggestions or colour schemes? I think it would look like a normal chapter , the augmetics they focus on would not be visible under their armour (or skull for that matter).

TheDungen
20-11-2013, 22:50
I'd rethink the name iron brains.

MajorWesJanson
20-11-2013, 23:20
I'd rethink the name iron brains.

Or go the Space Sharks route and go for High Gothic- Cortexii Ferrum

MajorWesJanson
20-11-2013, 23:21
I'd rethink the name iron brains.

Or go the Space Sharks route and go for High Gothic- Cortexii Ferrum

El_Machinae
21-11-2013, 01:41
Aurum memor

Sandlemad
21-11-2013, 07:18
Steal the Sons of Medusa Atropos-clan symbol, it's perfect: http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/khromash/ATROPOS.png

How does the Adeptus Mechanicus feel about this servo-network? The initial surgery sounds fairly similar to the Rite of Pure Thought.

Erik_Morkai
21-11-2013, 13:10
The Iron Apples?

With the iRhino, iCenturions etc...All super clean and very high tech. Get some stickers off the web for decals. Model some earbuds with green stuff so marines can listen to their Catechism while bringing the Emperor's righteous fury onto the Heretics or Android users.

KingCro
21-11-2013, 15:28
I think its a great background full of great ideas! I'm always surprised by peoples fluff on warseer. Every time I click on a link a long the lines of "Check out the cool chapter fluff I wrote!" I always brace myself for some teenage fan fic about "My dudez are the mostest bad ass face stompers in the galaxy lead by captain Killface and his sword that can kill a demon prince in one blow!!!!!" But Warseer always leaves me pleasantly surprised with some of the awesome thoughtful fluff people come up with. I really wish I were as creative as some of the people on here.

One tiny thing that I would change is I'm kinda getting a vibe that the chapter has some slight disdain for regular humans because their battle brothers fell protecting them? If this is true, I would make it more that its not that they dislike humans, its just that they are very cold and calculating. So, say they would calculate that it would take 50 guardsmen to take out a tank they would have no problem sacrificing 50 guardsmen to get that done. May seem harsh to others but the mighty Iron Brains did all their fancy math and saw this is what is necessary to achieve victory. But the same goes to their fellow marines. If a captain's cyber brain does the calculations and deems it necessary to sacrifice 50 space marines in order to achieve victory then he would do so with out a moments hesitation. (Better be a damn good reason though!) What I'm basically saying is that to them war is just a math problem where the the ends ALWAYS justify the means. That's just my take on it. It's your chapter so you can do whatever you want. :D Like I said, awesome fluff!

I agree with MajorWesJanson and maybe go for a little less silly name than Iron Brains. Cortexii Ferrum is great! You can also play around with a lot of faux Latin stuff too because GW loves fake Latin lol. Some other ideas like the Iron Minds or Iron Skulls. Just thinking of other ways to say the same thing. But if you like the Iron Brains more power to ya.

Sandlemad I thought the exact same thing. The Atropos-clan symbol is perfect for the mighty Iron Brains!

As far as color scheme, I was thinking something like Iron hands but with silver helmets instead of gauntlets. Maybe some more silver bits here and there or some other accent color to spice them up a bit. I always thought the Iron hands paint scheme was a little too bland and simple.

Lord Squidar
21-11-2013, 16:16
I think Iron Minds is pretty cool, Cortexii Ferrum is great. I wasn't serious about Iron Brains at all, its a rubbish name!

I like the cold and calculating idea, its what I was going for. Want these guys to make Spock look gooey and emotional.

Silver helms for the colour scheme could work, it kind of indicates that something inside has been replaced if you follow the same logic as the iron hands colour scheme.

=Angel=
21-11-2013, 17:00
In theory the marines don't get to command guard assets or allies.
In practice, you say no to the giant killing machine who keeps referring to you as 'meat officer primus'

El_Machinae
21-11-2013, 17:01
As part of their hyper-logic, they should rate both themselves and their enemies on 'points' scale, and thus conduct the majority of their campaigns based on that type of rationale

KingCro
21-11-2013, 18:08
Want these guys to make Spock look gooey and emotional.

Haha ya exactly.

Going off the idea of the brain network and El_Machine's thought of hyper-logic. You can also work in a little Alpha Legion feel, with the whole value of information thing. After all, you need to know as much information as possible before you can execute a perfect and precise battle plan. They might use a vast network of connections (Mechanicus, Rogue Traders, Eldar?) to get as much information as possible so that they know everything about their enemy and they closely guard the knowledge so that it might not fall into enemy hands, making them seem very secretive and seem like they don't trust anybody. They might even arrive to a planet and not engage immediately because they might be busy gathering all the information they need before they deploy any troops. That way their strikes are precise and cause the maximum amount of damage with out taking too much damage. Like trying to win a chess game with as few moves as possible. This would also add to people's distrust of the chapter. They would see the Iron Brain ship arrive and just sit in orbit as the commanders gather information and feed it into the servo-breain-network and then plan their course of action while the people on the ground will be thinking "Why the hell aren't they doing anything?!" But then once the marines are deployed they win very quickly and decisively because they planned everything out perfectly. (But sometimes that plan involves sacrificing a few thousand guardsmen) Consequently this could also lead to the Iron Brains (I'm starting to like the name now lol) arriving at a planet calculating that the war is un-winnable and just leave with out ever firing a shot.

Does the chapter have a chapter master or does the brain network work as a council to make big chapter wide decisions? Like the council that the Iron Hands have. Or maybe the brain-network serves as some sort of adviser to the chapter master and the captains helping them plan the best course of action?

Here are some quick ideas I had for the paint scheme. Silver helmet and silver trim and a white eagle keeping with the Iron Hands color scheme. Probably white weapons too.

182084

This second one I messed with more. Silver helmet and the rest of the trim is white. The red stripe I threw in because I just wanted to add another color so the model doesn't look so boring. I was thinking the right shoulder trim could show their company, kinda like the Raven Guard. So if we follow the Ultramarine company color scheme he would be a 3rd company Iron Minds Marine. I was thinking their weapons would also probably be white, but maybe silver or black, whatever looked best.

182083

Sorry I keep going on I just really like this idea. Makes me want to start this chapter.

Camman1984
21-11-2013, 18:39
How are you having their relationship with the inquisition etc? The behaviour would arouse a lot of suspicion from the inquisition etc as would with holding tech and keeping lots of secrets. (The DA blew up an inquistorial ship for to keep theirs). Also, the super computer powered by marine brains has the smell of witchcraft, necromancy and illegal AI's about it which would be another 'plot hook'

MajorWesJanson
21-11-2013, 19:57
In theory the marines don't get to command guard assets or allies.
In practice, you say no to the giant killing machine who keeps referring to you as 'meat officer primus'

*Cough*Death Korps of Krieg*cough*

Lord Squidar
21-11-2013, 20:10
Well I did mention in my original idea that the Inquisition are after these guys big time. They want the marine brain computer core thing (it needs a name!) for themselves for their own diabolical purposes, maybe to aid in astral navigation or some such. The IBs are one step ahead of the inquistion and keep fleet based to ignore them and have an impeccable service record, albiet with high allied losses.

King Cro I really like your idea about the information collection and how they might turn up at a warzone and decide its unwinnable and just leave, adds to their mystery.

As for the chapter master, the way I see it is that they consult the brain collective on all matters of war and stick close communication with their ships in battle. As such they don't have an overall leader but a de facto council (the brains) who might appoint leaders from the chapter veterans to serve as field commanders (based on the highest probability of victory), a nice nod to the clans of the Iron Hands. its actually going to be one of their major weaknesses, if you knock out communications with the collective, the marines are left to their own devices and are unused to fighting this way compared to more individualistic marine chapters.

Game terms wise, i'd say the FNP they get from the Iron Hands chapter tactics would be from their lack of ability to feel pain as their pain receptors have been removed, plus a few augmetics here and there, they are sons of the Iron Hands after all.

KingCro
22-11-2013, 08:09
As for the chapter master, the way I see it is that they consult the brain collective on all matters of war and stick close communication with their ships in battle. As such they don't have an overall leader but a de facto council (the brains) who might appoint leaders from the chapter veterans to serve as field commanders (based on the highest probability of victory), a nice nod to the clans of the Iron Hands. its actually going to be one of their major weaknesses, if you knock out communications with the collective, the marines are left to their own devices and are unused to fighting this way compared to more individualistic marine chapters.

Game terms wise, i'd say the FNP they get from the Iron Hands chapter tactics would be from their lack of ability to feel pain as their pain receptors have been removed, plus a few augmetics here and there, they are sons of the Iron Hands after all.

Yea I like the idea of the computer being an adviser to the chapter master and captains. That way you can field an awesome IH chapter tactics chapter master haha. I would say steer away from making the Iron Brains completely emotionless though because that would lead to some bland characters. It would be kinda like the problem the old Necrons had. All their leaders were jut mindless robots with no individuality. So I say make the IB captains very cold and calculating, and maybe even over reliant on the computer, but still let them have a little bit of personality and individuality and ways of doing things. Maybe one captain favors orbital bombardments and drop pod assaults because he believes they are the most efficient while another captain favors all out armored assaults, and another thinks that Raven Guard-esque hit and run tactics are best. It could even cause conflict with the leaders arguing which way to carry out the war is most efficient. I can see one marine saying to another ""Well remember when we did the tank assault? That was 8.543% more efficient then when we did your stupid hit and run ideas!" and the other guy would say "That's because you are not taking into account the variables X, Y, and Z!" and so on. The captains can even have rivalries trying to prove whose methods are the most efficient.

One problem I've come across with the brain network is how does it communicate with the entire chapter? where is it? Because if it is on their flag ship it may not be present at every battle. So if one company is fighting some battle in one sector and the rest of the chapter is in another system how do they talk to the computer? As we know it can sometimes take weeks to send a message through the warp. So maybe each company has their own brain network with their company veterans and then when the chapter is united they have the massive computing power of all the companies combined. And again, each companies computer could have a little unique personality too.

As far as rules I like your justifications of the iron hands tactics. you can also even cheat and use other chapter tactics because it is what the computer deemed appropriate at the time lol

El_Machinae
22-11-2013, 13:29
Has the Opening Poster read Priests of Mars?

Lord Squidar
23-11-2013, 21:43
Have not read priest of Mars, is there a concept similar to this?

El_Machinae
24-11-2013, 12:36
Kinda. Sufficiently different, though, I'm not really spoiling anything just by asking and then confirming.

The problem might be the HQ unit. It needn't be the actual 'HQ' slot. They'd be in something heavy and with lots of independent guns, yeah?

aim
24-11-2013, 13:13
I'd rethink the name iron brains.

The best thing about this, is that when I say the thread that said 'Iron Hands Successors', I smirked to myself, thinking 'probably called the iron feet'. However, the idea itself sounds pretty damn good.


Or go the Space Sharks route and go for High Gothic- Cortexii Ferrum

Excellent name.

Tae
25-11-2013, 00:01
The original premis in the OP sounds remarkably similar to some fluff in the new Clan Raukaan supplement.

Iron Father Kristos "approach[ed] all matters from a position of pure and perfect logic". This includes sacrificing a group of Raven Guard (and I mean literally sacrificing - they blocked their comms and watched them get slaughtered to a man by Orks whilst only a hundred yards away) just so they could achieve a perfect, unified strike on the Waaagh leader to kill it. He also abandoned other Imperial units to die at Xenos hands (both ork and Eldar) after the Iron Hands secured their own objectives.

However, this doesn't end well ...

He, and all others in the Chapter who follow his 'logic only, no emotions' idea are corrupted by The Saphire King who is a Slaanesh Daemon created when Ferrus died from his "frustrated pride, boiling anger and sorrow, and his shame" and feeds off of Iron Hands turning off of their emotions. In the end they are all mutated and only when another Iron Father, Stronos, allows himself to feel again (i.e. Rage) and convince others to do likewise that they can defeat the Daemon.

Just thought I would mention it for consideration.

El_Machinae
26-11-2013, 14:46
One temptation to worry about is technological progress. One you start down the path to technological understanding and progress, it can very quickly lead to actual progress. There really should be a mechanism in your fluff to explain why their homeworld isn't quickly adapted into becoming an area where R&D is done and innovations are adapted into the wargear

LegionX
01-12-2013, 12:08
Great idea - I like the name Cortexii Ferrum :chrome:

Bear in mind that the Iron Hands are already cold, emotionless b*****ds who will sacrifice their allies to achieve victory - how are your successor Chapter any different?

Also remember that artificial intelligence is banned by the AdMech, so bionic brains will be seen as blatant heresy by many (including perhaps their parent Chapter)! They'd have to go out of their way to hide their level of augmentation...

I like the idea of Black armour and silver helmets, and some kind of skull-&-circuit board combination like Clan Atropos would be a good Chapter symbol. Of course there's no reason why IH successors have to have black armour - look at the Brazen Claws!

Moloch Sacrifice
01-12-2013, 18:33
The original premis in the OP sounds remarkably similar to some fluff in the new Clan Raukaan supplement.

Iron Father Kristos "approach[ed] all matters from a position of pure and perfect logic". This includes sacrificing a group of Raven Guard (and I mean literally sacrificing - they blocked their comms and watched them get slaughtered to a man by Orks whilst only a hundred yards away) just so they could achieve a perfect, unified strike on the Waaagh leader to kill it. He also abandoned other Imperial units to die at Xenos hands (both ork and Eldar) after the Iron Hands secured their own objectives.

However, this doesn't end well ...

He, and all others in the Chapter who follow his 'logic only, no emotions' idea are corrupted by The Saphire King who is a Slaanesh Daemon created when Ferrus died from his "frustrated pride, boiling anger and sorrow, and his shame" and feeds off of Iron Hands turning off of their emotions. In the end they are all mutated and only when another Iron Father, Stronos, allows himself to feel again (i.e. Rage) and convince others to do likewise that they can defeat the Daemon.

Just thought I would mention it for consideration.
I thought the business with the Sapphire King was that their emotions were repressed, rather than removed entirely. If the Cortexii Ferrum were to completely remove the parts of the brain that generate emotion, rather than just implanting emotional suppressors, would they still be vulnerable?

Looking at the suggested colour schemes, I actually like the simpler one more, I think it's a little more striking. I also think the red trim on the right pauldron makes the other design look a little too similar to the Raven Guard.

As for allies, it might be an idea to take large blobs of dirt cheap guard units and use them as literal meat shields for your marines. That way, you can reflect your fluff with in game tactics.