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View Full Version : Bearer vs wielder



Methios
24-11-2013, 13:53
Recently this topic has come up again. The current view on the matter in my area is that:

- If a weapon gives a bonus to a BEARER it also convers the bonus if you use another weapon.
- If a weapon gives a bonus to a WIELDER it has to actualy use this weapon to make use of its bonus.

Is this how its played on tournaments and RAW?
What about RAI?

theunwantedbeing
24-11-2013, 14:51
RAI
The weapons doesn't do anything unless it is being used in close combat and it only applies it's special rule on attacks/hits made with the weapon and nothing else.

RAW
Bearer means you just have to carry the thing, it doesn't need to be used and you get the effect of it.
Wielder means you have to have the weapon out and in use, but it doesn't necessarily stop other attacks not made with the weapon from benefiting from the weapon.

Basically the rules are badly written and there are all sorts of loopholes and abuses available as a result of it.

byrothegyro
24-11-2013, 16:11
the FAQ disagrees with you TUB. They specifically use fencers blade as an example to show RAI is bearer means just for carrying it, and wielder means just when attacking with it.

bigbiggles
24-11-2013, 16:11
If only daemons could pick magic armor along with weapons, this probably would not come up as much

Necromancy Black
24-11-2013, 21:20
See, currently they seem to be using the wording bearer on weapons that work at all times, and then wielder on weapons that only work when attacking.

But at no point have they ever stated this is actually how it's suppose to work. So fully expect at some point in the future for some new rule to completely screw this over. As it is it seems to work as a pretty good guideline thus far.

MOMUS
24-11-2013, 22:53
Is this the old daemon gift/magic weapon debate?

Most tourney organisers comp this cleverly or just whack you with the spanking stick. It's silly and rarely comes up

bigbiggles
25-11-2013, 07:18
Although a GUO with blade of eternity (bearer) and blade of swift striking ( weilder) is terrifyingly fun to use if this works

Wesser
25-11-2013, 08:39
Well you still can only have one magic weapon...or does gifts count differently?

I still think that the nail in the coffin for anyone applying weapon bonuses to anything other than striking in close combat is the Slann with Piranha Blade.

Boosted Soul Quench = 4D6 STR 4 hits with Armour Piercing and D3 wounds? Mmm... no

Blkc57
25-11-2013, 08:53
See, currently they seem to be using the wording bearer on weapons that work at all times, and then wielder on weapons that only work when attacking.

But at no point have they ever stated this is actually how it's suppose to work. So fully expect at some point in the future for some new rule to completely screw this over. As it is it seems to work as a pretty good guideline thus far.

In the FAQs they did say, Necromancy, that the Fencer's Blade's language specifically allows it to occur all the time. The only difference in its language is that Fencer's blades say bearer instead of wielder for other weapons. Its how the association came to exist and why people make the distinction. Although you are very correct and GW does need at some point to come down and finally say if there is in fact a clear difference, rather than trying to read the tea leaves of their cryptic musings in the FAQs.

furrie
25-11-2013, 09:04
Well you still can only have one magic weapon...or does gifts count differently?

I still think that the nail in the coffin for anyone applying weapon bonuses to anything other than striking in close combat is the Slann with Piranha Blade.

Boosted Soul Quench = 4D6 STR 4 hits with Armour Piercing and D3 wounds? Mmm... no
With gifts you can have multiple magic weapons.
As voor soul quench, since when did magic items, that didn't explicitly state they do, work on spell?

Wesser
25-11-2013, 10:26
With gifts you can have multiple magic weapons.
As voor soul quench, since when did magic items, that didn't explicitly state they do, work on spell?

That's basically what this discussion is about. If a weapon basically conveys the rule upon the character

Piranha Blade says character have the AP and D3 wounds special rules...

If a weapon for instance gives +1 STR to the bearer

- Does that work on say strength tests? (Dwellers Below for instance)
- The Stegadon Helm issue. Does Weapon bonuses work for impact hits?

The whole thing is pretty much ******** and imo any rules a weapon have only applies when swinging. If you actually look for holes in the rules, you'll find them, but why try?