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GamesmasterZ
07-06-2006, 20:15
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/TwistedDesigner/ooohh.jpg

Ewwww...

Andrew-

Apple Dave
07-06-2006, 20:43
Another box set of the same figures we already have, god damn, i think'll give it a miss (for now *dun dun duh*). Nice figures though.

Sniper Kelly
07-06-2006, 21:39
I'll be buying these - I like the casual poses, and Eomer really needed resculpting.

Looks like a return to form after the pretty dire FOTN figures...

Shadowheart
08-06-2006, 07:10
You could see the reactions to this set coming from threehundred leagues away.

"Do we really need another Aragorn?" (as if we really need any miniatures)
"They look silly just standing around!" (as opposed to hacking away at thin air)

The only problem I have is that GW didn't dare to go the whole way. Although these will look a whole lot better staring down the Uruk-hai horde from the walls of Helm's Deep, there's still Théoden's sword, Legolas' dagger and Aragorn's pointy finger (indicating Haldir: "Get him first!").

Also happy to see Háma, although I was hoping for a mounted version of him as well, which seems unlikely now.

Gondorian
08-06-2006, 11:08
I like some of the models, they might come in handy for the odd diorama. I'll probably just order Gamling seperate rather than buy the whole box.

Dr Death
08-06-2006, 11:25
I like them but im not as sure as others that they'll be as useful in diorama's because none of them are really doing anything vastly interesting or telling any cruicial part of the story.

Gamling- Certainly the most useful of the box, we've long awaited a dismounted version of him with the banner, its just a terrible shame it's not really that different in pose to the last one

Theoden- A nice model, pretty similar to the last two, i would have prefered a foot version of him unarmoured.

Aragorn- Nice sculpt, the pointing arm is fairly useful but a pity he's not doing anything else.

Legolas- Standing around....right. What part of the story is this trying to tell?

Hama- Considering we only have the one version of him thus far another is always nice. Nice upright royal guard pose which could lend itself to a few conversions. I'm quite happy with this one.

Eomer- Great that he doesnt have his helmet on, do a headswap with Theoden and you have a wonderful version of him as king. Pose though could have been more interesting

Gimli- I'm quite content with him in such a boring pose, looks appropriote. GW have been increasing the varieties of Gimli of late and i have to say i rather like it.

The thing about this set is that GW seem to be throwing the collectors a line here, "these are diorama models, they're not in agressive poses" and there is hope in these figures. But what GW seem to have left at the door is any idea of what a "diorama" figure needs cheif among those being it needs to tell a story which apsolutely none of those do. These figures are simply boringly posed versions of Heroes of Helms Deep.

Dr Death

Osbad
08-06-2006, 12:52
Well, these aren't for me, becasue

a) I already have all the models/wargear represented already (including Gammers on foot w/flag which I converted myself 2 years ago when they *should* have released him)

b) Most are in yawn-inducing "lets all stand around and do nothing" poses (which admittedly are one step up from the normal "lets wave my sword around in the air meaninglessly" pose for heroes).

Even had I not already got around 60 Legoli more than was necessary I wouldn't be tempted.

I s'pose they may interest some diorama builders out there, but to be frank, they are likely to be pretty boring dioramas!

Osbad
08-06-2006, 12:59
Gamling- Certainly the most useful of the box, we've long awaited a dismounted version of him with the banner, its just a terrible shame it's not really that different in pose to the last one

Yup, the nice guys at GW have taken the trouble to stick a flag on the exact same pose as the unflagged model, because doing it yourself is sooooooo hard"


Theoden- A nice model, pretty similar to the last two, i would have prefered a foot version of him unarmoured.

Me too.


Aragorn- Nice sculpt, the pointing arm is fairly useful but a pity he's not doing anything else.

I thought he was patting Gimli on the head?


Legolas- Standing around....right. What part of the story is this trying to tell?

The part where he turns into a **** striptease artiste?


Hama- Considering we only have the one version of him thus far another is always nice. Nice upright royal guard pose which could lend itself to a few conversions. I'm quite happy with this one.

Best of a very bad bunch IMHO. Coz models standing aroound doing nothing are always sooooo useful. And it was such a hard job to convert the sculpt from the already-existing "standing around doing very little" pose.


Eomer- Great that he doesnt have his helmet on, do a headswap with Theoden and you have a wonderful version of him as king. Pose though could have been more interesting

Is it only me that wants to shout "who ate all the pies you fat slap-head" at the sight of this model?


Gimli- I'm quite content with him in such a boring pose, looks appropriote. GW have been increasing the varieties of Gimli of late and i have to say i rather like it.

Again, a useful model for those of us who haven't already got a gazillion poses of Gimmers loitering with his Big Axe.


These figures are simply boringly posed versions of Heroes of Helms Deep.

Yup, couldn't have put it better myself!

j1kob
08-06-2006, 14:18
ouch. thats all i can say... sure, cool minis but reasons why im not gonna buy them:

-Whats with the pose, how do u fight a battle with these figures, the "defenders" of rohan when they look like they are about to have tea time with the queen.

-More of the same old guys, can't GW possibly make the stuff we really need?

Why I would want to buy some of them:

-I like the Gamling, at least this time he has the banner

I think GW has screwed up again. Damn it

-j1kob

Gondorian
08-06-2006, 16:07
I agree that they are really making more Gimli, Aragorn, and Legolas models than are really necessary. However, the models themselves aren't that terrible.
As I said before the only model I'm really interested in is Gamling and I'd be likely to get him seperate. The others are useful for dioramas as there are a wide variety of scenes from book and film in which the heroes are not in battle. The departure from Rivendel for example.
As a friend of mine said: A diorama is only as interesting as the artist makes it.

It would have been nice to have some Grimbold, Elfhelm and Erkenbrand models though.

Avian
08-06-2006, 19:24
Well, they would have been nice if they had actually looked relaxed, like the Gimli with Uruk axe-holder from a while back, but these models mostly do not look relaxed. I have to wonder what half of them are supposed to be doing. Why not take a few stills from the movie and make models based on that?

Chaplin Davius
08-06-2006, 22:33
The best Emoer yet and I really like the whole box, I'll be buying it for my rohan.


I think GW has screwed up again. Damn it

I think thats a bit harsh, after all it has to be hard to come up with new poses for heores and it's not like GW did a Nagash or a Captain Cortez (I still can't get over how bad that model is).

I'd say 8/10.

Later Days

Dr Death
09-06-2006, 07:34
Personally i kinda take the opposite veiw to you Gondorian, i have no problem whatsoever with new poses for any hero but these really wasnt what i had in mind. These poses are quite literally just standing there, and just standing around wasnt the kind of thing that people did in the war of the ring. I mean surely "non combatant" doesnt mean "standing at ease"?

Dr Death

Gondorian
09-06-2006, 11:21
I will agree with you to the extent that the models appear boring if you want to use them in a battle. Even to a certain extent you can have them, especially Theoden, as surveying the battle, not every general wins a war in the front rank.

I say again, they are fairly useful for diorama work. You claim that they are just standing there, well, if they were listening to Gandalf laying out the battle plan they really would just be standing there listening, not standing in various heroic poses in an attempt to impress Eowyn.
I would also remind you that 'At ease' is a military command for soldiers who are at attention to take a more slack stance, usually to recieve briefing from officers.

Evan the greatest heroes sit on their backsides or stand around looking at the landscape. Especially Legolas, I mean he practically spent his life looking at trees.

The Judge
09-06-2006, 19:13
I think they are excellent... Legolas in particular is good, and Gamling, Theoden and Eomer are also good. I would not use them in battle, but they're definately being added to my army. Aragorn ain't too great though.

I'm confused why everyone hates them, yet complains about all action poses, and loves the work of Rackham, with their non-aggressive poses.

rkunisch
09-06-2006, 19:49
I also do like them. :D

Have fun,

Rolf.

swordwind
09-06-2006, 22:59
I like the Legolas one. I was gonna do the legolas with daggers conversion as seen on the Last Alliance, paint it up good and give it to my friend her birthday(we were watching the Oddessy video in Classics where Odysseus shoots the arrow straight through the handle loop of 20odd axes. I mutter "Noone can do that!" she nudges me and whispers "Legolas could" but I digress) but this one will do just fine instead. It has that nonchalant, elven pretty boy look about it and my mum will go mad for another Eomer model!

Samwuss
09-06-2006, 23:07
I don't really feel that they're necessary, as I don't do dioramas, and I wish they would concentrate instead on more gamer-friendly models. But it's not really a bad, "Isengard Troll"-type thing, at least to my way of thinking.

Dr Death
10-06-2006, 11:55
BUt these models arent listening to the battleplan of Gandalf, they are quite literally just standing there, no ifs and or buts about this, they are just standing there. I dont particularly want more action poses but these are almost a mickey take of those who say they want diorama figures. How do any of them tell a part of the story? I certainly cant remember the point where aragorn was standing on the battlements of helms deep sword sheathed saying to whoever might listen "oooh cliffs!". And just to proove it, here is a list of things such models could be doing.

Aragorn- Why not have him at the gate adressing the orcs at the coming of dawn like he does in the books?- Have him looking out from the gatehouse, apsolutely battered, one foot on the crenelations pointing his sword out to the throng of the uruk hai and threatening them.

Legolas- Looking over the plains of rohan for sight of the dust trail of the Uruk hai with merry and pippin? Hand sheilding his eyes from the harsh sun on the plains of rohan?

Gimli- In the films he blows the horn of Helm the Hammerhand- that would make for a good model. Alternatively you can have him looking in wonder for the first time at the glittering caves.

Theoden- Unarmoured as i suggested or even seated in his throne as an old man as he is when we first meet him.

Eomer- A real nice combat pose could have been made for him, say when he's clearing the causeway of Uruks with Aragorn and Gimli in the books.

Hama and Gamling- Im pretty pleased with them, changing Gamling's stance might have been nice. The crouched royal guard look doesnt befit these proud men of rohan.

Alternatively you could have had Gandalf as he throws off his disguise in front of theoden. Grima councilling theoden also would have been good, particularly with the overthrown version i suggested. Upright royal guard, standing sentinel outside theodens halls perhaps? Wounded Theodred? Aragorn in armour on horseback? Theoden falling to the ground greiving for his son? Even a diorama peice of that wonderful moment in the film where Theoden draws the sword offered to him by Hama? The white lady of rohan?

There are so many moments GW could have picked upon to realise but instead we get heroes standing around with the implication "well you wanted diorama figures".

Dr Death

Shadowheart
10-06-2006, 12:28
That's not GW's implication though, I don't think they've implied anything. What they seem to have wanted to do was a, well, "Defenders of Rohan" set, where Rohan is Helm's Deep specifically. These are good, unspecific poses for the heroes awaiting the assault of the Uruk-hai. Rather like virtually every other pose is an unspecific pose of a warrior "fighting" (what or where he's fighting is usually impossible to say).

That said I would much rather have seen stuff straight from the movie, for example if they wanted Aragorn to point, he could've done it with his sword like in the shot when he orders the Elves to fire. Still, it's a bit closer to what I'd like to see, and it's a substantial variation from any poses we already have.

And I've got to point it out again, "necessary" or "useful" are very weak terms when applied to miniatures. The only purpose they ever serve is for entertainment, and I'd say the look of the miniature provides more entertainment then its function as a playing counter.

Gondorian
10-06-2006, 21:07
BUt these models arent listening to the battleplan of Gandalf, they are quite literally just standing there, no ifs and or buts about this, they are just standing there. I dont particularly want more action poses but these are almost a mickey take of those who say they want diorama figures. How do any of them tell a part of the story? I certainly cant remember the point where aragorn was standing on the battlements of helms deep sword sheathed saying to whoever might listen "oooh cliffs!". And just to proove it, here is a list of things such models could be doing.

Dr Death

I'm not saying that these are the best possible poses, just that they have their place.

There are several points where heroes are, as you put it, just standing there in the book and film. They have to rest in the long treks from Rivendel to Mordor and they'll be thinking about stuff, quietly contemplating their situation, even standing on sentry. Having not had the opportunity to read the works for a fair while I can't give you page references, but think of when Legolas enters one of the many forests or Gimli quietly watches as Eomer and Aragorn defend the gateway. Such scenes are very much suited to these models.

Aragorn: Not my favourite of the bunch. I concede that it looks more like he's saying have a go at Haldir all ye crossbowmen than ordering the elves. However, some simple conversion work on the arm like reajusting the angle or swapping it could give it some potential.

Theoden: Not bad, looks OK. Definately looks like he's getting ready for battle or is surveying one. The sword spoils it for me, as it doesn't really look right and without it he'd look just like he did at the beginning of the siege.

Gamling: Spot on.

Legolas: Quite good. The fact that his weapons are held in non agressive stance makes him appear to either be disarming, such as at the entrance to the goldon hall, or taking a moment to speak with a comrade either before a battle, in preparation for one or about to service his tools (sharpening, restringing the bow) in a moments rest from the several trips he takes around Middle Earth.

Hama: OK. Not really sure what the hand is doing extended, perhaps explaining to Gandalf that he must disarm to enter or arguing with Gamling over which one of them will get rushed by the warg and killed early. They ruined his part in the film. Left arm aside, good model. I could definately find a use for him.

Eomer: Better than the current version on foot, more realistic pose, something strange about the other.

Gimli: Leaning on his axe, characterful in that alone, very easily combined with the Legolas model in any non-combat scene you wish to make.


Your argument, as far as I can see, is that they are not doing anything. In a diorama they can easily be made to look like they are: talking, focusing on something ie: the trees in Lothlorien, surveying the battle field, taking a brief rest from the journey etc. It depends how you position and convert them and how you make them interact with each other.

Just my views.

Killshot
12-06-2006, 13:17
Hama: OK. Not really sure what the hand is doing extended, perhaps explaining to Gandalf that he must disarm to enter or arguing with Gamling over which one of them will get rushed by the warg and killed early. They ruined his part in the film. Left arm aside, good model. I could definately find a use for him.



It looks to me that Hama is thumbing a ride since his horse was killed. :p

The Judge
14-06-2006, 20:23
Poor, poor Hama. I guess he doesn't have any Fate points?

Vmartini
14-06-2006, 21:21
probably not, or maybe 1.

I believe he died at Helm's Deep in the book.

Gondorian
17-06-2006, 18:19
In the book he died heroically at Helm's Deep keeping the uruk-hai at bay for as long as he could. In the film he gets jumped by a warg while Gamling sits there for five minutes trying to unsheath his sword.

Notna_Highborn
30-06-2006, 10:16
It looks like a nice box set, very nice. I'll hope it comes to sweden

Festus
06-07-2006, 20:19
I have to chime in:

I love this Gimli: very characterful indeed..

Greetings
Festus