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View Full Version : Red Hunters - what do we know/ think about them?



Khorneguy
25-11-2013, 00:30
I've recently become intrigued by the Red Hunters after they got their own Chapter Tactics in the FW update and have been trying to read up on them. Thing is, I can't seem to be able to find much on them, aside from them featuring in the Siege of Vraks books and The Emperors Gift.

I like the idea of a chapter who's main purpose is to support the Inquisition and are mind scrubbed on a regular basis to protect them from the effects of the mind-bending conflicts the have to fight in/ protect the Inquisition's privacy. It opens up a whole load of questions about the nature of the Chapter.

It seems like they could have quite an interesting culture, seeing as knowledge is regularly lost. Do they prize knowledge above all, as it's so fleeting for them, or do they embrace the ignorance and base their chapter traditions around it? How do they normally fight? Are they cold and calculating like the Iron Hands, or do they fight with unthinking discipline, a bit like the Imperial version of Thousand Sons Rubricae? Or could they go in the completely opposite direction and be zealot defenders of the Imperial faith and creed?

What do other Space Marine Chapters (who are infamously autonomous and fiercely resistant to the influence of the rest of the Imperium's branches) think of this chapter who's pretty much a Chamber Militant for the Inquisition in all but name? Do they mistrust them, or do they hold them in the same esteem as the Grey Knights for the job they do in protecting the Imperium?


I'm wanting to make myself a force of Red Hunters to ally with my Inquisitonal forces, so I want a good idea of what they're like fluff-wise before I start painting. There's a lot of questions surrounding them and (unless I'm looking in the wrong places) very few answers, so I'm asking you guys. What do we know about them? What can we speculate? I'm very interested in what people think of them.

Fangschrecken
25-11-2013, 02:05
It really depends on how the mind scrubbing works. It is just battles and confrontations with the horrors of the galaxy that are removed or is it more whole sale and they end up with only the bare minimum left, with they only thing left in them being a sense of unquestioning loyalty to the chapter and the emperor.

If its the second I can see them as cold and calculating or as zealots, either is a good default mindset. Questing for knowledge can be dangerous.

I'm thinking you could end up with a situation like The Army of Mars from "Sirens of Titan" (they might actually be based off this(red=mars?)) where people are recruited and mind-wiped into being the perfect soldiers, but maybe there's a guy or two who remembers more than he should.

I'm not a 100% on it, but wouldn't an inquisitor who goes rogue have complete power over them? He could tell any lie and they wouldn't know enough to counter it.

OuroborosTriumphant
25-11-2013, 08:49
The Red Hunters appear in The Emperor's Gift by ADB. We don't see very much of them, but their entire Chapter responds to the request of an Inquisitor Lord and they talk about "The God-Emperor" rather than just "the Emperor", which the viewpoint character (a Grey Knight) notices and regards them as "fanatics" on the account of.

So close ties to the Inquisition and worship the Emperor as a god is what we know.

MvS
25-11-2013, 08:50
I think that their minds wouldn't be scrubbed after the majority of their engagements. Just after those ones that are deemed too corrupting or secret. For most of the most harrowing or secret engagements the Inquisition are likely to use the Grey Knights, Death Watch and/or the Exorcists.

The Red Hunters will have Chapter traditions, histories and heroes, but there would also be campaigns that they know they fought in and have been heralded by the Inquisition for, but for which they have no memory of the details - except possibly for a campaign number and a list of the 'glorious dead'. I imagine the most senior members of the Chapter wouldn't be mind scrubbed every five minutes either, because presumably they would be trusted more due to their indomitability and years of service.

I imagine their focus wouldn't be on knowledge but on the importance pf loyalty to the Imperium, absolute faith in the Emperor and complete obedience to His Holy Inquisition. They don't need to question or doubt. They have a God/Emperor given purpose and that is all they need to know. Their loss of memories is a small sacrifice next to the objective 'good' (in their eyes) of serving the Emperor directly and in a way most other Chapters would never be prepared to do.

Camman1984
25-11-2013, 12:01
Be interesting to know the long term effects of repeated mind scrubbing? Is neuronal degeneration a risk? Do they have the same active lifespans as other marines? Etc. And is there a risk they might lose things like their training?

Khorneguy
25-11-2013, 23:11
It really depends on how the mind scrubbing works. It is just battles and confrontations with the horrors of the galaxy that are removed or is it more whole sale and they end up with only the bare minimum left, with they only thing left in them being a sense of unquestioning loyalty to the chapter and the emperor.

If its the second I can see them as cold and calculating or as zealots, either is a good default mindset. Questing for knowledge can be dangerous.

I'm thinking you could end up with a situation like The Army of Mars from "Sirens of Titan" (they might actually be based off this(red=mars?)) where people are recruited and mind-wiped into being the perfect soldiers, but maybe there's a guy or two who remembers more than he should.

I'm not a 100% on it, but wouldn't an inquisitor who goes rogue have complete power over them? He could tell any lie and they wouldn't know enough to counter it.

I think it might be more wholesale, considering they use implants to memorize combat techniques. Maybe not a total loss of self, but enough to make it detrimental to their training, otherwise they wouldn't bother using them.

I'd imagine a rogue Inquisitor could cause a lot of damage by manipulating them, but at the same time runs the risk of them cottoning on to what he's up to and them turning on them. I doubt even the most deviant of Inquisitors wouldn't dare risk it.

On the other hand, there is the added bonus for the Inquisition to use whatever means they need to to win a war, without the Astartes holding it against him - including the deployment of deamonhosts and other warp-tech.



The Red Hunters appear in The Emperor's Gift by ADB. We don't see very much of them, but their entire Chapter responds to the request of an Inquisitor Lord and they talk about "The God-Emperor" rather than just "the Emperor", which the viewpoint character (a Grey Knight) notices and regards them as "fanatics" on the account of.

So close ties to the Inquisition and worship the Emperor as a god is what we know.

The fact that they worship the Emperor is most likely a product of their founding, I think, as it's been rumoured they were founded by the command of the Inquisition itself. The Inquisition would want a chapter that shared their views on the nature of the Emperor, simply for ease of communication with them. You don't want them arguing theological points with every Inquisitor they're attached to. They just want servants.

The idea of them being fanatics is an interesting one, considering they literally have blind faith to see them through, trusting in the Emperor that they're being used to do the right thing.


I think that their minds wouldn't be scrubbed after the majority of their engagements. Just after those ones that are deemed too corrupting or secret. For most of the most harrowing or secret engagements the Inquisition are likely to use the Grey Knights, Death Watch and/or the Exorcists.

The Red Hunters will have Chapter traditions, histories and heroes, but there would also be campaigns that they know they fought in and have been heralded by the Inquisition for, but for which they have no memory of the details - except possibly for a campaign number and a list of the 'glorious dead'. I imagine the most senior members of the Chapter wouldn't be mind scrubbed every five minutes either, because presumably they would be trusted more due to their indomitability and years of service.

I imagine their focus wouldn't be on knowledge but on the importance pf loyalty to the Imperium, absolute faith in the Emperor and complete obedience to His Holy Inquisition. They don't need to question or doubt. They have a God/Emperor given purpose and that is all they need to know. Their loss of memories is a small sacrifice next to the objective 'good' (in their eyes) of serving the Emperor directly and in a way most other Chapters would never be prepared to do.

I agree with you that they wouldn't be mind scrubbed after every mission, most likely just the ones involving deamons and other moral threats. Maybe other engagements are scrubbed too, if the Inquisitor they're serving doesn't want them to find out certain stuff.

It would still be hard to maintain a chapter history. Big parts of it would be blank, considering they're most commonly deployed alongside Inquisitional forces. I reckon even the high command of the chapter are wiped as well, simply because it defeats the purpose of mind scrubbing to prevent dangerous knowledge from being known, if a group of people within the chapter still know it. I can see them having a lot of Chaplains too, in order to keep their faith in their purpose strong. I can't Imagine they field too many Librarians though - having a psyker unable to remember the perils he has faced when using his powers makes for something incredibly dangerous, as he doesn't know how to avoid/resist the danger again.



Be interesting to know the long term effects of repeated mind scrubbing? Is neuronal degeneration a risk? Do they have the same active lifespans as other marines? Etc. And is there a risk they might lose things like their training?

As I said above, there must be a risk to their training, considering they use implants containing battle doctrines as standard. I'd imagine mental strain and illness from a lack of knowledge of what they've actually done is a common problem within the chapter.

My thoughts are more of how this affects the training of recruits. How can they gain experience alongside their future battle brothers if they're mind scrubbed after missions? Is all the training simply 'downloaded' into their heads?

Fangschrecken
26-11-2013, 00:05
It would be especially weird to come back from a campaign and not remember who died. "Hey, where's brother Bob? (checks roster of honored dead) well...damn. He owed me 5 space buck"

It would be ever weirder if the guy had fallen to chaos and been wiped from the rolls of honor. You'd vaguely remember battle-brother Bob but you wouldn't remember him turning traitor or getting killed for it, plus he's been erased from all records.

Do you think that, just maybe, the Red Hunters are captured renegades that have been mind scrubbed to a point that they don't recall going rogue or having any reason to do so? Wouldn't even need a scout company because your getting pre-grown marines and if they die then who cares? It's traitor geneseed and their original chapter probably already extracted their progenoids.

Camman1984
26-11-2013, 11:59
Thats an unusual take on it. Would explain the excessive involvement with the inquisition to keep an eye on them. Would wonder though the sense in maintaining a chapter of marines with a proven history of betraying the imperium.

Fangschrecken
26-11-2013, 20:36
Sure they turned traitor once, but that guy has been scrubbed down so far that he no longer exists. As Doctor Who once said "A man is the sum of his memories you know, a [redacted by the inquisition] even more so."

Camman1984
27-11-2013, 05:49
Ah, if only the horus heresy had started somewhere along the M4, the doctor would have been all over that :).

Spider-pope
28-11-2013, 09:59
The Red Hunters strike me as fanatical sycophants for the Inquisition, willing to carry out actions that Chapters with even a vaguest shred of honour would refuse. That certainly seemed to be their purpose in 'The Emperor's Gift', brought in when the Grey Knights said "You know what, this isn't what we're supposed to be about".


Ah, if only the horus heresy had started somewhere along the M4, the doctor would have been all over that

He was involved. You should have seen how bad the Heresy was when the Daleks allied with Horus. Thankfully The Doctor stepped in to avert that timeline.

jareddm3
28-11-2013, 12:55
I've been working on a story idea of two Inquisitor lords from two different sectors who come to blows with one another due to...reasons. The idea is due to proximity and many years spent building a strong working relationship with, one Inquisitor lord has the backing of the Red Hunters chapter, while the other lord has the backing of the Exorcists chapter. I've be wondering what people think of the idea of these two chapters (or parts of each chapter) coming to blows with one another in the name of the inquisitorial ideals that they respect. The war itself is primarily designed to be one of honor for the chapters, but for the inquisitors, each sees the other's methods as particularly abhorrent and has large majorities of their respective conclaves backing their actions. Regardless of the outcome, all involved parties were mind-scrubbed and all associated paperwork redacted. Does this seem viable? And if so, how do you feel the two chapters might act with one another?

My apologies for the thread hijack.

Arthanor
28-11-2013, 14:36
Have a monodominant inquisitor (and backing conclave) with Red Hunter chapter support, with a more middle ground/radical inquisitor and conclave with the Exorcists backing. The Red Hunters as Emperor-god loving marines work well with puritan inquisitor, whereas the very process of creating exorcists is rather radical.

Using that, it would be easy to setup a situation in which the monodominant puritan faction finds out something the radicals are doing and come down on them, only to find out that the exorcists back the radicals. I'd say the Red Hunters would see exorcists as extremists, their "use" of daemons abhorrent, whereas the exorcists would find the Red Hunters more akin to stormtroopers in power armor, not worthy of being space marines since they gave up their autonomy and their memories for the inquisition. Both chapters can also likely argue that the other's method is not warranted:

Red Hunter: You don't need to use demons, look at us! We do just fine with the Strength bestowed to us by the holy Emperor!
Exorcist: Yeah right, isn't that what you said last week too? I have wrenched my mind back from the grips of a daemon, I can deal with whatever visions your feeble mind requires you to forget.

Fangschrecken
29-11-2013, 01:17
See the Red Hunters would think that the mind scrubbing is to help them deal with the horrors of the galaxy, but really it's so the inquisition can have them do whatever they want and not have to worry about them saying anything about it.

inquisitor: so we just found a planet full of resources and took it for the emperor from the hands of filthy xenos
Red Hunter: ummm sir? You had us slaughter an entire planet of humans who worshiped the emperor...
Inquisitor: get thee to a scrubbery!

SpanielBear
29-11-2013, 12:00
The entire chapter would have a weird, memento-like feel to it. Never mind forgetting brother Bob, let's say that all the chapter knows there is a marine who is a hero, awesome, blessed. They know he is, because its dave, and his name is on every scroll of honour for the last 400 years. And after a campaign, post scrub, dave wakes up with an inquisitor by his bed, shaking his hand and saying "well done for resisting that daemon, son, have another medal". And the last shreds of his memory fade away, all the marine can think is "dave? Wasn't my name Steve..?"

Fangschrecken
29-11-2013, 20:55
You could actually end up with a Dread Pirate Roberts type situation. Some famous Red Hunter gets killed and instead of risking the chapter's image they just mind wipe everyone and say "Chapter Master Dave didn't die. He's right over there. (points) but he does seem to have cut his hair..."

Spider-pope
29-11-2013, 21:26
You could actually end up with a Dread Pirate Roberts type situation. Some famous Red Hunter gets killed and instead of risking the chapter's image they just mind wipe everyone and say "Chapter Master Dave didn't die. He's right over there. (points) but he does seem to have cut his hair..."

Take it further and you could end up with some very Orwellian situations. "The Red Hunters have never suffered a casualty in war, we have always numbered 1000 warriors". Massive battle occurs. "The Red Hunters have never suffered a casualty in war, we have always numbered 420 warriors."

Kurgan Ironbeard
29-11-2013, 22:03
If they weren't red, they'd be cool but as it is I think there's to many red chapters about.

Fangschrecken
30-11-2013, 00:27
Grey Hunters was taken and what other color would sound good? Chartreuse Hunters? Rouge Hunters? Ultramarine is just too silly a color to even be considered

SpanielBear
30-11-2013, 05:49
Also, how do they recruit? Is it a normal neophyte/scout/brother progression or-

"Inquisitor, we sent brother Siegmund to join your deathwatch ten years ago, can you please explain what has happened to him"

"Ah, yes, terribly sad, ummm I'm afraid he... Died fighting... Oh, let's say Orks."

Meanwhile

"What do you mean, you remember being a Templar? Silly brother Siegmund, you've been a red hunter the last 100 years!"

Kurgan Ironbeard
30-11-2013, 10:03
Grey Hunters was taken and what other color would sound good? Chartreuse Hunters? Rouge Hunters? Ultramarine is just too silly a color to even be considered

Black Hunters, White Hunters?

Fangschrecken
30-11-2013, 17:19
We've already got Black Templars and White Scars. Admittedly there are already the Red Templars but they're just a background chapter.

Felwether
30-11-2013, 17:52
If they weren't red, they'd be cool but as it is I think there's to many red chapters about.

The only major red chapter I can think of is the Blood Angels.

Besides, red is a colour that seems to be closely associated with the Inquisition.

Kurgan Ironbeard
30-11-2013, 18:08
Flesh Tearers, Genesis Chapter, Rampagers, Red Talons, Red Wolves, Angels Encarmine, Angels of Fire, Angels Vermillion, Blood Drinkers, Blood Ravens, Exorcists, Flesh Eaters and there's a load which have some additional colours added a bit more like Fire Lords etc.

Then there's plenty of chaos warbands that use red as their primary colours.

Felwether
30-11-2013, 19:40
None of them are exactly common though. I'm sure I could list off half a dozen chapters of a given colour too - that doesn't mean there's too many of them.

Camman1984
30-11-2013, 21:18
What about ultramarine hunters, worshiping gargamel and killing smurfs.

SpanielBear
01-12-2013, 01:42
Octarine hunters.

VaeVictisGames
01-12-2013, 21:47
Octarine hunters.

Ah that explains all the plastic grey marines, they aren't unpainted, they are just painted Octarine which is invisible to non-Wizards.

Fangschrecken
08-12-2013, 17:16
I posted this in another thread, but it gives some credence to them being from the traitor legions.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Red_...s#.UqS1i9J3vmg

You've got what? Three unusual chapters with ties to the inquisition. The Grey Knights were probably founded from loyalist psykers who refused to go traitor with their primarchs and showed great strength of will. The Exorcists have a whole crazy possession thing going on, but they're from the 13th founding and much too young. and then there's the Red Hunters, rumored to have been founded right after the Heresy, maybe they're made up of loyalists from the traitor legions who also refused to turn traitor, but didn't have the psychic potential to be Grey Knights.

Plague Lord
08-12-2013, 18:49
Black Hunters, White Hunters?

Good comedy. Black hunters would use dark angels mini with robes, painted white and white hunters would wear golden armour, lot's of gold...

Hengist
13-12-2013, 01:08
As I recall, my first thought upon reading the titbit in IA:7 about the Red Hunters having been founded in the wake of the heresy to hunt the traitors, and kept on a tight =I= leash was that the intention was to create the suspicion that they might be loyalist survivors of the traitor legions.