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Flavius_69
07-12-2013, 19:56
Hey guys

Will be picking up my first SM dex soon, but confused about which to buy - SM or DA.
I have the contents of DA, plus a tactical squad and a terminator squad.
I would like to expand with a broad balanced force, but would like the option of fielding a terminator heavy force on occasion. Ravenwing however, does not interest me.

So which Codex would be the best fit?
And if i get SM, would there be a way to incorporate the Death Wing knights in some sort of counts-as capacity (love the models!)

Cheers
Flavius_69

WarzonePlayer
07-12-2013, 20:01
If you buy the marine codex, then you can use all the dark angels in a basic marine army, with no needs for counts as, you can either call then dark angels or create your own chapter, but regardless, I think the marine dex would be the most useful purchase to expand onto

Sorry, deathwing knights could be used as hammer and shield terminators, they are not too dissimilar

jackers
07-12-2013, 20:04
The vanilla dex is slightly better all round than the DA book (better flyers, better anti-flyer stuff, more variety in HQs), but the DA book has some awesome options for thematic builds. It is also worth knowing that Dark Angels units really come into their own when you use them together to make force multipliers.

Flavius_69
07-12-2013, 20:13
It is also worth knowing that Dark Angels units really come into their own when you use them together to make force multipliers.

How do you mean mate??

jackers
07-12-2013, 20:21
It's quite hard to explain, but as I'm a Ravenwing player, I'll use them as an example:

A single unit of bikes, even with Sammael in them, is not a great unit. 2-3 units of bikes with Sammael is slightly better. Add in a ravenwing command squad the Banner of Devastation (makes all bolters in units within 6" Salvo 2/4), and suddenly your 3 good-ish bike squads become lethal. Add a Darkshroud to sit nearby giving them stealth to improve their cover saves and they get even better. Add in some Deathwing Knights in a Crusader sitting near the banner so that the hurricane bolters fire 12 shots each, and enemy assault units get scared too. Etc, Etc.

This massive level of synergy between units in the Dark Angels book is what makes them good and fun to play. You can pull off combos that your opponents won't see coming and keep them on the back foot.

Flavius_69
07-12-2013, 20:26
I see what you mean mate, So the DA dex favors multiples of the same unit??

jackers
07-12-2013, 20:29
Not necessarily, but if you play one of the wings (Ravenwing or Deathwing), then obviously you need multiples of those core units to fill your troop choices.

Karhedron
07-12-2013, 20:29
I see what you mean mate, So the DA dex favors multiples of the same unit??

Not necessarily multiples of the same units, rather there are certain units that work well in synergy with each other.

Ozybonza
08-12-2013, 01:11
I suggest painting them in your own colour scheme, that way you can decide they are a DA successor one day and a UM/IF (or whatever) successor the next.

Royals
08-12-2013, 02:30
If you don't like Ravenwing, go for standard Space Marines. If you neglect Ravenwing elements of Dark Angels, you'll be missing about 1/3 of the codex. Space Marines also offer a lot more variety. I'm a Dark Angels player through and through. There's definitely some things in C:SM that I like, but not enough to sway me. I run an army based around Azrael so I get a lot of Bikes, Tactical Marines, and Terminators.

Grand Master Raziel
08-12-2013, 15:28
I'm going to back up Royals. If you don't like Ravenwing, this edition of Codex: Dark Angels is not for you. It lavished Ravenwing with all kinds of new awesome, whereas Deathwing got precisely 1 new unit, and can't benefit from most of the best force multipliers in the book. Besides, you don't really need to have Terminators as Troops to go Terminator heavy if you're so inclined. Just run a couple of cheap Scout Squads for your compulsory Troops choices, and fill your Elites slots with Terminators.

Also, who knows what GW is going to come up with in the near future? They've got these Formations things going now. They might include some sort of Terminator Formation before too long. Wouldn't surprise me.

Odin
08-12-2013, 15:49
I'd say if you have a Dark Angels army, use the Dark Angels codex. It's not like the old days where our Codex was so poor we had little choice, the current one is very nice. I rarely use Ravenwing or Deathwing but I still use it.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Flavius_69
08-12-2013, 17:12
Thanks guys, it sounds like SM is the codex for me. should pick it up after Christmas!

Harwammer
09-12-2013, 00:21
For me Space Marines are defined by their colour/iconography schemes. If you don't want to use the Dark Angels codex, you could always make up your own chapter that happens to have a fetish for winged blade symbols. The House of Flying Daggers perhaps :p

Israfael
09-12-2013, 06:48
In a more "normal" store - or gaming group - our codex is both competitive and fun.

Should you be interested in truly competitive gaming, however, you'll find that a biker army via Codex: Space Marine will be a much better choice for you.

Silversage
09-12-2013, 07:51
I personally don't see a lot of point in using DA without the Wings. Their basic units don't really benefit from just about any special rules (except Stubborn) whereas C:SM units have chapter tactics which influence most of their guys. The Ravenwing and Deathwing are the reasons why you really play DA. If you don't want to use even one of them, don't play DA. The way I see it, you would be giving your opponent and edge everytime when you don't use the whole potential of your army. Even if you do love the fluff and the color theme and everything I wouldn't suggest it. Go with the idea mentioned several times already in the comments and paint them in your own color scheme so you can use them as whatever Chapter you like.