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dalezzz
09-12-2013, 00:08
I'm starting up an ogre and a vampire army ( got a battalion box of each) but I've yet to get the army books , so I'm wondering what's a good way to arm my bulls and skeletons?

im thinking 2 hand weapons for the bulls?

As as for the skeletons, hand weapon and shield?

is the extra attack worth the points on the bulls? Are them skeletons better off naked? Or is the save + parry worthwhile

Kayosiv
09-12-2013, 00:22
For bulls it depends. Is the unit small? Then extra hand weapons are pretty good. If it large, lasting durability is worth more than the extra attacks.

Skeletons should universally use hand weapon and shields. Spears have pretty unspectacular rules right now.

Kayosiv
09-12-2013, 00:23
*Double Post*

m1acca1551
09-12-2013, 01:05
HW/S for skeletons, spears just don't add anything to the mix, plus there is the off chance that you role a bunch of parry saves... Nothing better than that haha

bigbiggles
09-12-2013, 05:22
Spears do look cool though

dalezzz
09-12-2013, 06:39
Yes I had already decided on no spears:) 5-10 extra skeleton attacks aren't worth it .... And I don't even know how many points they are :p .... Unless I pick up a load cheap on ebay already armed with them of course

so would one big block of bulls with 1 weapon and then a few smaller units with 2 weapons be a good idea? At the moment I'm just making/painting iron guts to occupy my time :)

Gustav Kohn
09-12-2013, 06:45
Every skeleton saved by parry save is like 2 skeletons that don't die.

Scythe
09-12-2013, 07:33
HW/S for skeletons, spears just don't add anything to the mix, plus there is the off chance that you role a bunch of parry saves... Nothing better than that haha

It depends... If you're running a Mortis Engine, you get a 6++ anyway as long as the thing is alive, so you might as well go for the extra attacks of spears; you're not losing anything.

And sure, they are only WS2 S3, but they can be boosted with necromancy to something a little more threatening. As a free upgrade, spears are sometimes worth considering.

daftpunkevo
09-12-2013, 07:38
Hi Dalezzz
An ogre is a lot of point a piece believe me you ALWAYS want them with ironfist. ALWAYS. An ironfist give you the benefit of both a shield AND an aditional hand weapon. They are NO reason to not take it for his price at any level or any point game. If you field 3 bulls or 50 you ALWAYS take ironfist. You add the cost of a skaven slave to a pricy ogre to a 6+ parry ? YES

Kayosiv
09-12-2013, 08:29
An ironfist give you the benefit of both a shield AND an additional hand weapon.

I think you're mistaken. It's just a shield and grants no additional attacks.

dalezzz
09-12-2013, 08:47
Iron fist? What is this mystical contraption! No one at the local club has ogres so until I manage to snag a ogre book off ebay I'm in the dark regarding equipment choices , I had assumed hand weapon or 2 hand weapon were the choices for bulls and then iron guts had 2 handed weapons ( basically I'm working off the WoC book here)

also "nipping" down to the local shop for a quick peek isn't an option

dalezzz
09-12-2013, 08:50
As for the skeletons I've got I think I'll make them hw and shield , but as there's usually a load of spear armed Skellys on ebay I'll probably grab some of them so I've got a block of each , give half the spear skeletons shields and half without so I can run them either way

Vipoid
09-12-2013, 08:59
An ironfist give you the benefit of both a shield AND an aditional hand weapon.

Is this from an faq? Because no such rule exists anywhere in the Ogre book.

Kallstrom
09-12-2013, 09:32
Ain't Ironfist a shield AND a Parry Save?

daftpunkevo
09-12-2013, 10:02
I think you're mistaken. It's just a shield and grants no additional attacks.

Then thanks you, my last opponent cheated then :shifty: , and because i don't have the OK armybook i believed it. Maybe i should have won the 2 games we played

maze ironheart
09-12-2013, 10:06
He could model half with hand weapon and shields and the other half with spears and shields unless your going to a GT their should'nt be a problom.

Malagor
09-12-2013, 10:32
Ogres should have ironfists IMO. They already do tons of attacks so durability is better.

Ain't Ironfist a shield AND a Parry Save?
All shields grant parry saves when equipped with hand weapon tho :p

DeathGlam
09-12-2013, 12:01
Ironfists used to be both a shield and an additional hand weapon in the original army book i believe, so your opponent may have been confused.

Kallstrom
09-12-2013, 15:29
All shields grant parry saves when equipped with hand weapon tho :p

Aye, but they grant it while mounted as well, no? So a Mournfang equipped with an Ironfist has a Parry Save, or am I mistaken?

Malagor
09-12-2013, 15:31
Yes but he is talking about ogres now, not mournfangs.

dalezzz
09-12-2013, 15:33
Yes I don't have any mourn fangs ...... Yet :shifty:

Malagor
09-12-2013, 15:50
Well you should, they are awesome :)

Verm1s
09-12-2013, 22:00
Ironfists used to be both a shield and an additional hand weapon in the original army book i believe, so your opponent may have been confused.

And for the OP, if it's not immediately obvious, they're the fist-enclosing punch-dagger things. :p

Silly idea to design into an army and it's new placcy models, just 'cos one or two old metal pitfightery ogres had 'em. (Along with all the other loaded-out hand bits, including right-handed swords, for a troop type whose default weapon is a single club.) Ten-foot-tall mooby mongols weren't distinctive enough? Now it's just a shield. A'doy.

Kallstrom
09-12-2013, 22:20
Yes but he is talking about ogres now, not mournfangs.

Correct, but we were talking about how they differs from shields. ;)

valle
10-12-2013, 07:59
Scythe is right... If you are going to use mortis engine, you might as well give your skellies spears for the ekstra attacks.

dalezzz
10-12-2013, 08:07
I certainly intend to pick one up at some point, think I'll have to run a unit of each.... And some more foam trays :p