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fishound7
11-12-2013, 20:56
If you charge a skaven slave unit and it blows up can you pursue or overun after. The unit counts as destroyed so...

Also same question with frenzy troops which is basically the same answer should be given.

2nd question

Lets say skaven player charges with 50 slaves into 10 chaos warriors. In the shooting phase he targets the skaven slaves with say warpfire thrower. Due to the small base size of slaves he will hit a lot more models of slaves. Which i don't have a problem with. For giggles lets say 20 skaven slaves where under the template. Thats 20 randomize hits to either the slave unit or chaos warrior unit. I don't have a problem with this. Problem arises is when lets say 15 of those hits went to the chaos warriors instead of the slaves. I don't have a problem with say all 10 warriors were hit and the rest gets pushed onto the slave unit.

When the amount of hits start to exceed the unit size of the models, that is when I start raising eyebrows. Under normal shooting conditions 10 max chaos warriors would be hit. Under close combat conditions with slave units the hits can get a lot higher.

Take the same situation and replace the 10 warriors with a monster. The skaven player can target the slave unit with say his Warp lightening cannon and hit considerably more due to the size of the unit and the small base sizes lets say 10 hits. With this rule as is you can get multiple hits on said monster that do (d6 wounds) each. Again under normal shooting conditions you could only hit said monster once.

theunwantedbeing
11-12-2013, 22:00
1. They count as destroyed exactly as if they had been wiped out in close combat, so yes you get an overrun if you charged into combat with them that turn.

2. The Skaven FAQ (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3180070a_Skaven_v1.7_APRIL13.pdf) deals with this.
It's under the amendments portion of the FAQ.
The rule about randomising between friendly and enemy has been removed.

Senor
12-12-2013, 11:53
1. There was a moment, that the FAQ ruled, that there could be no overrun once the slaves exploded, only a reform. But this has been changed back a few months later. So, normal reform and overrun situations.

FatTrucker
12-12-2013, 13:21
If you charge a skaven slave unit and it blows up can you pursue or overun after. The unit counts as destroyed so...

Also same question with frenzy troops which is basically the same answer should be given.

2nd question

Lets say skaven player charges with 50 slaves into 10 chaos warriors. In the shooting phase he targets the skaven slaves with say warpfire thrower. Due to the small base size of slaves he will hit a lot more models of slaves. Which i don't have a problem with. For giggles lets say 20 skaven slaves where under the template. Thats 20 randomize hits to either the slave unit or chaos warrior unit. I don't have a problem with this. Problem arises is when lets say 15 of those hits went to the chaos warriors instead of the slaves. I don't have a problem with say all 10 warriors were hit and the rest gets pushed onto the slave unit.

When the amount of hits start to exceed the unit size of the models, that is when I start raising eyebrows. Under normal shooting conditions 10 max chaos warriors would be hit. Under close combat conditions with slave units the hits can get a lot higher.

Take the same situation and replace the 10 warriors with a monster. The skaven player can target the slave unit with say his Warp lightening cannon and hit considerably more due to the size of the unit and the small base sizes lets say 10 hits. With this rule as is you can get multiple hits on said monster that do (d6 wounds) each. Again under normal shooting conditions you could only hit said monster once.

You can overrun units that are destroyed due to crumbling, instability or the cornered rats rules.

A template weapon hits what it hits. Models that lay under the template after any scatter has been rolled are affected, no randomisation occurs. Likely this ruling was made specifically to address situations like the one you encountered.

Blkc57
12-12-2013, 13:50
The Skaven FAQ changed the Expendable rule, you ignore the part about randomizing the hits. So You don't randomize those template weapons when shooting into slaves, you hit what you hit. The only Skaven unit that still has to randomize when shooting into combat are Poison wind globadiers.

bigbiggles
13-12-2013, 01:44
Not even jezzails? I thought it would apply to all be based shooting

Blkc57
13-12-2013, 06:22
Not even jezzails? I thought it would apply to all be based shooting

Well if my memory serves me it was randomizing all shooting that was part of the last two sentences that got deleted off of the rule. But I'll go back and look later.

bigbiggles
14-12-2013, 09:51
I would have to look as well. That just seemed like the best way to do it

Imperator64
17-12-2013, 00:26
I would have to look as well. That just seemed like the best way to do it
No there is no randomisation now. It was taken out to stop skaven players claiming multiple hits from template weapons onto single enemy models. It would have made sense to have kept randomisation for BS shooting or to simply have said that a motel can only be hit once but GW decided instead to completely remove the rule, mess up the expendable rule in the process and hand yet another upgrade to an already overpowered book. Cheers GW.