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huitzilopochtli
14-12-2013, 11:37
Hi all. So I want to try something new with my vampires. I'm making a list with units I've never used before (and in fact don't yet own) and I find myself 35pts (1 level of magic) over the limit. This army will be practice for a tournament in January. I'll be making changes as I get a feel for them, but in the meantime I'd like any advice you can offer for the list, particularly some way of squeezing in the 4th magic level.

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Vampire Lord - barded nightmare, heavy armour, lance, quickblood, red fury, enchanted shield, talisman of preservation, book of arkhan, potion of strength

Master Necromancer - level 4, dispel scroll


40 Skeletons - full command, spears
40 Skeletons - full command, spears
25 Zombies - standard, musician
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves

30 Grave Guard - full command, great weapons, banner of the barrows
10 Black Knights - full command, barding, lances, banner of eternal flame
5 Hexwraiths
Spirit Host
Corpse Cart

Terrorgheist

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Points to note:
The core is at the minimum and the spearetons won't be swapped as I don't have the models, and 2 massive units bristling with spears looks awesome.
The Gheist and the Hexwraiths are the models I don't own yet. What I have but isn't in the list includes: 2 varghulfs, a corpse cart, 5 more dire wolves, another spirit host, a banshee, 3 vampires on foot, and some zombies for raising

Thanks for looking!

huitzilopochtli
15-12-2013, 11:42
Slight change - managed to squeeze in the magic level by ditching the corpse cart. Seed of rebirth is because I didn't know what else to do with 10pts left over. Going to give both Vampires and Death magic a go on the level 4 to see how he plays.

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Vampire Lord - barded nightmare, heavy armour, lance, quickblood, red fury, enchanted shield, talisman of preservation, book of Arkhan, potion of strength

Master Necromancer - level 4, dispel scroll, seed of rebirth


40 Skeletons - full command, spears
40 Skeletons - full command, spears
25 Zombies - standard, musician
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves

30 Grave Guard - full command, great weapons, banner of the barrows
10 Black Knights - full command, barding, lances, banner of eternal flame
5 Hexwraiths
Spirit Host
Spirit Host

Terrorgheist

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Any thoughts?

logan054
15-12-2013, 17:26
For me I don't see the point in taking Spears over HW+SH, skeletons aren't going to kill anything and the only real reason to take them over Zombies is for the parry save, Zombies are better but skeletons do look so much cooler :) if your going to horde the grave guard then you want atleast 40, with 30 most of the back rank will be dead before it ever gets to strike. I think most people prefer having two terror's, with blender lords the norm seems to be a ogre blade, talisman of preservation then either a dragon helm or enchanted shield.

huitzilopochtli
15-12-2013, 20:16
Thanks for the advice, Logan.

The skeletons have spears because that's how I modeled them (because spearetons>hand-weapon-shield-etons>zombies on the scale of cool) and I don't have any other core with which to replace them. I also don't have any more GG or any terrorgheists (I hope to get one, I don't think I'll be able to procure two). So, while I'd love to take more of your advice on board, I cannot hope to implement all of it.

That said, when I looked at swapping out the weapons on the vampire lord I noticed I was way over the limit for my lords (stupid magic level...grumble) and had to rethink my characters. While doing so I realized just how fragile a lone gheist and 30 GG actually would be if my level 3 caster is on death, not vampires for invocation (on top of their already low numbers). So back in with the level 4 casting vampire:

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Vampire Lord - level 4 (Vampire), heavy armour, shield, barded nightmare, red fury, quickblood, ogre blade, dragonhelm, talisman of preservation

Necromancer - level 2 (Vampire), dispel scroll

40 Skeletons - full command, spears
40 Skeletons - full command, spears
25 Zombies - standard, musician
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves

30 Grave Guard - full command, great weapons, banner of the barrows
10 Black Knights - full command, barding, lances, banner of eternal flame
5 Hexwraiths - hellwraith
Spirit Host
Spirit Host

Terrorgheist

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So my lord has his S7 attacks, 2+ ward save vs flaming (can't believe I never considered this before), and hopefully has magic enough to mitigate the low numbers of GG and gheist. My usual lists (sans gheist) would have a baby vamp carrying the book of Arkhan... Not sure how I feel about leaving this at home.

Another option would be to get rid of the GG and drop in 2 varghulfs and a baby vamp with the book, but I think 30 GG>2 varghulfs.

Apart from what's already in the list, I have 2 varghulfs, a corpse cart, 5 more dire wolves, another spirit host, a banshee, 3 vampires on foot, and some zombies for raising. I hope to get a gheist and some hexwraiths before the tourney, but don't really plan on much else. Something I should have mentioned in the first post, which I'll edit.

logan054
15-12-2013, 20:23
You could probably fit in the book of Arkhan on your lord if you only took a sword of might. Massive fan of varg's, would be cool if you could run a pair of them, it depends if you face a lot of high armour saves and feel you need the terror to deal with them.

huitzilopochtli
15-12-2013, 20:35
If I go for the sword of might I'll definitely need the gheist to deal with high armour. Might give it a go, though. Have run a pair of varghulfs in the past - fantastic against infantry-heavy lists, but not monsters.

This is practice for a tourney (my first). It needs to be all-comers, but I don't want it to be a typical tourney list if I can help it. I ain't got aspirations of winning, just looking to have some fun. :)

Thanks again for the advice, Logan!

logan054
15-12-2013, 20:39
I tend to find that Vargs are better at dealing with wizards hiding in units ;) I use the sword of might on my Lord, just so long as he avoids characters he's usually set, if your worried about the lord not being able to deal with heavy cavalry you could always put the razor standard on your black knights?

huitzilopochtli
15-12-2013, 20:53
Argh... so many options! Haha. Although, if I swapped out the 30 GG for two vargs there is the ever-so-slight possibility that I could actually have most of my army painted for the occasion. I will give both options (2 vargs and baby vamp/30 GG) a go and report back with the results. I'll see about fitting the razor standard in, too, but I'm quite fond of my anti-regen unit. Plus, if I go with the vargs baby vamp can carry the book so lordy vamp can have S7.

Thanks again, Logan! :)

huitzilopochtli
17-12-2013, 20:11
So it seems the tournament has changed since last year - it's now 2200 points, not 2500. Back to the drawing board... :(

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Vampire Lord - level 4 (Vampire), heavy armour, shield, lance, barded nightmare, red fury, dragonhelm, talisman of preservation, potion of strength

Vampire - level 2 (Death), lance, shield, heavy armour, barded nightmare, book of arkhan
Necromancer - (Vampire), dispel scroll

30 Skeletons - full command, spears
30 Skeletons - full command, spears
20 Zombies - standard, musician
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves

9 Black Knights - full command, barding, lances, banner of eternal flame
5 Hexwraiths
Spirit Host

Varghulf
Terrorgheist

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Played with a list slightly different to this today - one less magic level on the lord, ogre blade instead of lance and potion, and one more black knight - against a high elf player heading to the same tournament. Game was going OK until I made a very stupid call and got my general killed (let's not talk about it), but I learned some very important points:

I hate Teclis. Pick 1 spell of your choice from each lore? Against me that meant banishment (with two other light wizards) and purple sun. I couldn't stop more than one or two spells a turn, and he'd cast a minimum of four each turn (+5 to cast? And he's not freekin' comped in this tourney!). I was utterly destroyed in the magic phase. I got one spell off the whole game, I think.

I hate the banner of the world dragon. That's really what crippled me in this game. I felt like I couldn't charge my magic weapon-wielding general into his big block of swordmasters with attendant characters (3 wizards, lothern BSB, and general), and also couldn't afford to get charged. Hence my combat characters and retinue didn't see combat.

This rant isn't over, it's just paused.

Anyway, I made some adjustments to the list based on these points. Level 4 caster is back in and this time he's staying for good. I ain't mucking about with a piddly +3 to cast/dispel. And goodbye magic weapon. I know at least one elf list is going to this tourney and probably at least one more. Lordy vamp ain't sitting behind the lines because everything gets a 2+ ward against him.

To be honest, I'm not very happy with this list. The BKs are very short on bodies, and my blender lord isn't quite the monster he's supposed to be (no quickblood/other trickster's shard). Maybe I'm trying to squeeze too much into the list and should drop something. 2200 points is very cramped. Once again, any advice is appreciated.

m1acca1551
18-12-2013, 00:37
Honestly at 2200 points I just pick a necro lord and call it a day.

Try quick blood and a GW with red fury on your lord, now if memory serves ASF cancels out ASL correct me if I'm wrong, rule book is at home... Stupid work. This will give you s7 every turn as opposed to on the turn you charge and the potion granting 1 turn of awesome.

Drop the second vampire and take a level 2 necro. You have your mini deathstar wich screams shoot or magic me, and leaves your necro to baby sit the army, really not a good idea.

I'd combine the skele's to make a horde of 50, 2 units of 30 won't doing anything but get in your way, you'll want mastery of the dead to invoc you skele's.

Zombies are fine, same as dogs.

Now black knights... Unless you are using them as the traditional rip face of blender lord delivery system I really don't like them, they just fail to add any real staying power to the game. If they take 5 wounds well they are combat ineffective, whilst yes you can heal them you can bet your opponent will do anything in his power to insta kill or dispel any attempts to heal.

Grave guard are honestly so much better, a big unit of 40 with GW and banner of the barrows is just awful to face...these guys actually kill stuff and kill stuff well. They have numbers to soak up shooting and CC.

Hexwraiths I've always loved these guys, pure awesome.

Hosts are pure win aswell... You basically say to your enemy's wizard "come at me bro"

Terror gheists I love... So cuddly haha

huitzilopochtli
18-12-2013, 08:41
Thanks for the advice!

Actually a Necro Lord might not be a bad idea. I've never played without my vampire general, though, so I don't really know how to play without a combat lord. I'll check out the tactica thread.

Quick blood+red fury+strength bonus is comped, so quick blood was dropped. Comping takes away from tournament points (scale system of nasty and nice points, lower is better) so any difference between you and your opponent is a serious game changer. I have a score of 0 right now and can't afford to lose it. Lance allows me to keep my initiative and the potion of strength is a nice surprise for prolonged combats.

Drop baby vamp for level 2 necro... What exactly can I expect another level 2 necro to do? He'll be too far away from the faster combat units to use the book of arkhan, and while he can help raise the infantry, they're not going to be winning combats anyway. Their job is to redirect and hold up stuff until the vampire can get round to them. I don't understand how a level 2 necro would really help.

I'd love to combine the skellies but unfortunately units >40 are comped. Same goes for units >450pts, so 40 GG are also out. I could put the unit of 30 back in but that's an awful lot of points. Maybe with the necro lord.

Blender delivery is what the BKs are for. So long as he's in the list they kind of need to be, too.

I'll go and see about a master necro list. It'd save a lot of points if I can work out what I'd do with it. (Might fit the GG in then.)

Thanks for the feedback!

logan054
18-12-2013, 16:39
Why don't you post the full comp so we can better advise ;)

huitzilopochtli
18-12-2013, 20:52
Because that would be too clever. I want to lull any potential opponents who see this into a false sense of security. :shifty:

Yeah, good idea.

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Minimum scale score of 0, max 5. Nice things subtract from your score, nasty things add to it. Tournament points are out of 20 (if there's a difference of ≤150 points at the end of the game players get 10-10), and to this the person with the lower scale score adds the difference. e.g. if game is a draw (10-10) but you're scale is 1 and your opponent's is 0, it actually ends 9-11.

GENERAL
Nice:
+1 Nice point: No caster at level 3+
+1 Nice point: No caster, bound spells, auto-dispel items, or models which generate dispel dice
+1 Nice point: No BSB in any army other than vampires, tomb kings and demons of chaos.
Nasty:
+1 Nasty point: Folding Fortress
+1 Nasty point: Crown of command
+1 Nasty point: Each unit with > 40 models or costing >450 points
+1 Nasty point: Each unit costing >600 points
+1 Nasty point: Each War machine or model with a template after the fourth
+1 Nasty point: >80 shots per turn
+1 Nasty point: Each wizard character selecting Lore of Light after the third (including Loremasters)
+1 Nasty point: >1 wizard character selecting spells from the Lore of Death (including Loremasters)
(As to the comp on magic Lores, it only takes effect at army creation. Meaning that -for instance- Morathi choosing to take Death Magic counts towards it, but a Slann switching mid-game to Death does not count)

VAMPIRE COUNTS
Note: a terrorgheist counts as two screams for SCALE calculation purposes
Nice:
+1 Nice point: Coven Throne
+1 Nice point: Strigoi Ghoul King on Terrorgheist
Nasty:
+1 Nasty point: Lord Manfred Von Carstein
+1 Nasty point: each ethereal character or unit after the 2nd
+1 Nasty point: Red Fury and Quickblood or the Sword of Swift Slaying on a model with any item granting extra Strength
+1 Nasty point: More than one Red Fury and Quickblood / Sword of Swift Slaying (combined)
+1 Nasty point: each scream after the 2nd
+1 Nasty point: >7 Crypt Horrors in the army
+1 Nasty point: >7 vargheists in the army

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I have also realized my vampire lord probably adds 1 to my scale as he is over 450pts. Bummer. Please forgive my complete noobishness. This is my first tourney and I'm not a gamer - I'm a painter who occasionally likes to kill loads of stuff with his vampire lord. Provided he racks up a decent body count the rest of the army can go crumble; I've had fun. But now I'd also like to learn how to play more competitively.

huitzilopochtli
19-12-2013, 09:26
After looking up some other 2200 point lists people brought to tourneys, I made this:

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Ghoul King - (Vampires) beguile, aura of dark majesty, red fury, ogre blade, dragonbane gem, dispel scroll, the other trickster's shard


Necromancer - Level 2 (Vampires), cursed book

40 Skeletons - full command, spears, banner of swiftness
12 Skeletons - spears
40 Zombies - standard, musician
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves

37 Grave Guard - full command, great weapons, banner of the barrows
5 Hexwraiths

Varghulf
Terrorgheist

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Exploring the option of sacrificing magic to boost combat potential. It's a shame to leave my favourite vamp lord at home but I don't feel there's enough room for him, and this GK build seems to have a lot of favour with other players.

Basically by dropping my wizard levels I earn a nice point so I can afford the grave guard horde. Between them and a blender GK (in a skellie unit) there's a fair bit of combat potential. I decided to make one skellie unit a bunker to boost the zombies to a proper tar pit.

Biggest drawback with this list is the lack of magic. I'd be aiming to cast 3-4 low-level spells per turn, hoping to get one through, and use the varghulf or similar to assassinate my opponent's level 4. The alternative is to go master necromancer, but having tried to build a list around him I felt a distinct lack of combat power - the GG couldn't go past 30, I don't have any crypt horrors/vargheists, black knights without a blender are rubbish, etc. The list also appeals to my "let's see how much my lord can kill" mentality.

Options for change include swapping the ogre blade for +1 attack and potion of strength (or just potion of strength), but then I'll lose the other trickster's shard. I could also swap out the hexwraiths for a cairn wraith and a level 1 necro with the book of arkhan, to add to the small spell spam.

Any opinions are appreciated!

logan054
19-12-2013, 11:07
I like the new list a lot more, the unit of 12 skeletons seems a bit pointless tbh, shame you couldn't get a couple more GG and wight king in the list, (at the very least a WK).

huitzilopochtli
19-12-2013, 11:15
12 Skellies are just a bunker. If I had the zombies I'd probably use them. Why the wight king? Not a lot of killing power with 3 attacks. BSB?

logan054
19-12-2013, 11:20
Well compared to a vampire he's cheap and he does atleast get the +1 to hit from the BoB! T5 W3 heroes aren't that bad really, slap a great weapon on him and some protection and your golden really.

huitzilopochtli
26-01-2014, 21:54
Hi again! Thought I'd give the results of the tourney using the list just above...

1 win, 2 draws, 1 minor loss and 1 colossal defeat. Finished (before painting score - my army was not fully painted) 16th of 25 (after painting 19th).

I spent most of my time at the top tables. 3 of my opponents had previously played for the Irish team and were excellent players, so I was very pleased to be able to hold 2 of them to a draw (due in no small part to outstanding luck, but also reasonably good play on my part). My minor loss was my own fault, but my colossal defeat came when my ghoul king couldn't kill 1 blood crusher with 5 S7 attacks with re-rolls (said blood crusher also passing his beguile test twice on ld4). He managed to sneak the last wound on me and that was the end of it. That was just bad luck, but it was a bit of a downer for my last game.

All in all it was a fun experience, though. Definitely going to try to make it to another this year. Thanks everyone for their advice, especially logan054. Very much appreciated! :D