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THE-GOD-EMPEROR
15-12-2013, 05:56
Hey all I joined Warseer last week after years of lurking.

After reading through quite a few threads in regards to Warmaster, it tantalized my old fondness for the game and in particular, Dwarfs.
Yet after checking up on the GW site and seeing the miniatures range being completely removed. I've decided I would have a go of sculpting a few ranks of Dwarf warriors from scratch.
I've been sculpting only practically a year now and really picking up the pace with my attentions to detail. I have currently been focusing on a 15mm scale 40k set of minis, Space marines& Orks, after moving down from 28mm scale.

Now feeling ready to try out 10mm and wondering if anyone else has started a similar project? If so, please share your thoughts and ideas.
One favour I would ask of anybody willing to help - can anybody provide the exact height of a Dwarf warrior, High Elf spearmen from base of feet to top of head/helm in mm? A pic (If possible) would be more useful measured up next to an appropriate ruler. :)

In the meantime, I'll be starting rough mock-ups for some Dwarf warriors and see how that goes..

zoggin-eck
15-12-2013, 11:20
Good luck mate. It might suit one of the fantasy painting/modelling section more, though.

I can't help with measurements sadly. Are you keeping the exaggerated proportions?

draccan
15-12-2013, 14:54
Hey all I joined Warseer last week after years of lurking.

After reading through quite a few threads in regards to Warmaster, it tantalized my old fondness for the game and in particular, Dwarfs.
Yet after checking up on the GW site and seeing the miniatures range being completely removed. I've decided I would have a go of sculpting a few ranks of Dwarf warriors from scratch.
I've been sculpting only practically a year now and really picking up the pace with my attentions to detail. I have currently been focusing on a 15mm scale 40k set of minis, Space marines& Orks, after moving down from 28mm scale.

Now feeling ready to try out 10mm and wondering if anyone else has started a similar project? If so, please share your thoughts and ideas.
One favour I would ask of anybody willing to help - can anybody provide the exact height of a Dwarf warrior, High Elf spearmen from base of feet to top of head/helm in mm? A pic (If possible) would be more useful measured up next to an appropriate ruler. :)

In the meantime, I'll be starting rough mock-ups for some Dwarf warriors and see how that goes..

Would love to see pics of your work!

I have been thinking a lot about 40k and scale lately. I am very fond of Epic, but with all the Escalation and Stronghold stuff and GW trying to force Titans into the gameplay I can't help but feel that 28mm is the wrong scale for 40k. 12-15mm. would work so much better and be so much more easier to transport for a game night. Plus it would look really cool.

Feel free to share your orks or other work!

Verm1s
15-12-2013, 15:14
Well, I dabbled (http://www.cheddarmongers.org/prod/pic/Vermis/scifi/Epic/Cyborg01.jpg.html) in 6mm (http://www.cheddarmongers.org/prod/pic/Vermis/scifi/Epic/mechmage/) once upon a time. :)

My top tips for sculpting include good lighting, fine tools, and an empty bladder. :p They become more important at these tinier scales, IMO, and in addition: take a leaf out of GW's book and keep the details simple, clean, and as smooth as possible. One thing that's turned me off many other 6-10mm ranges is that it looks like they've tried to put too much detail and subtlety in, and ended up with something that looks a bit chopped and chewed. Or just ended up with chopped and chewed regardless.

Also, what putty or other medium are you using?

Samsonov
15-12-2013, 17:10
Well, unless you have time to sculpt an entire army you may as well get them cast up, which would only be a small step towards then selling them. Good to see people doing it for themselves rather than relying upon GW. As for myself, I think the best place to start is 6mm: http://www.microworldgames.com/collections/6mm-fantasy I have bought two of his armies (beastkin and orcs) plus I plenty of humans from heroics and ros. Will look very good when painted up.

THE-GOD-EMPEROR
16-12-2013, 01:47
Good luck mate. It might suit one of the fantasy painting/modelling section more, though.

I can't help with measurements sadly. Are you keeping the exaggerated proportions?

Ah thanks for that, I did try looking for a suitable Topics section to post in. This seemed the only area that seemed to fit in well with my post. lol
Exaggerated proportions as in the huge Dwarf hands and what not? Heroic scale I think it is called? I am at the moment, was toying with the idea of The Dwarves of Erebor from the Hobbit movie in 28mm fantasy scale. Still working on those though. :)


Would love to see pics of your work!

I have been thinking a lot about 40k and scale lately. I am very fond of Epic, but with all the Escalation and Stronghold stuff and GW trying to force Titans into the gameplay I can't help but feel that 28mm is the wrong scale for 40k. 12-15mm. would work so much better and be so much more easier to transport for a game night. Plus it would look really cool.

Feel free to share your orks or other work!

I agree, love 28mm scale, but there is something more grand and awe inspiring slugging it out in 6mm-15mm, especially since 40k seems ideal for these apocalyptic scales.
I'm very busy this week with changing jobs, Christmas and what not. But I will certainly put a few pics up in the appropriate section when I get some 100% complete. :)


Well, I dabbled (http://www.cheddarmongers.org/prod/pic/Vermis/scifi/Epic/Cyborg01.jpg.html) in 6mm (http://www.cheddarmongers.org/prod/pic/Vermis/scifi/Epic/mechmage/) once upon a time. :)

My top tips for sculpting include good lighting, fine tools, and an empty bladder. :p They become more important at these tinier scales, IMO, and in addition: take a leaf out of GW's book and keep the details simple, clean, and as smooth as possible. One thing that's turned me off many other 6-10mm ranges is that it looks like they've tried to put too much detail and subtlety in, and ended up with something that looks a bit chopped and chewed. Or just ended up with chopped and chewed regardless.

Also, what putty or other medium are you using?

Oh I have all the necessary tools (Except more fine detailed rubber shapers I need to consider) I bought a cheap (1.39) head lamp I use when sculpting, very useful, makes sculpting so much easier. I noticed a empty bladder helps too, getting up half way through a sculpt session is a pain. hahaha
I agree in regards to the 6mm Epic look, I do think they look very good for 17 years old, but could of done them a bit more cleaner. A forum member on here has been doing some of his own I noticed too. They look rather good.

At the moment I work with just green stuff at different mix ratios for a desired result, for larger projects miliput is a brilliantly hard drying & cheap "under layer" starter.
I haven't tried mixing green stuff with miliput yet though, may give that a try some time.


Well, unless you have time to sculpt an entire army you may as well get them cast up, which would only be a small step towards then selling them. Good to see people doing it for themselves rather than relying upon GW. As for myself, I think the best place to start is 6mm: http://www.microworldgames.com/collections/6mm-fantasy I have bought two of his armies (beastkin and orcs) plus I plenty of humans from heroics and ros. Will look very good when painted up.

I have been in that mindset myself matey, after GW became a open market company they have none stop abused their loyal customers on prices.
Even most of the old school guys like Paul Sawyer, Alessio Cavatore, Andy Chambers & even rick Priestly himself now have left and GW seems to be taking GW's spirit with them.
Hence my decision to try out & now mainly focus on sculpting my own and maybe then moving to a moulding/casting stage.
I bought a two part high quality liquid silicone and a two part liquid resin last year, just too chicken to try use it yet. It dries to a white/bleached bone colour. I am thinking of getting a grey resin dye so it comes out more sharp compared to lighter colours.


I checked that site out you linked and they do have some very nice minis, at 6mm scale the sculptors done a good job too! The prices are rather cheap too.

zoggin-eck
16-12-2013, 10:39
Exaggerated proportions as in the huge Dwarf hands and what not?


Pretty much. I think their Warmaster range had the details just right for painting. Big weapons, hands, helmets, feathers and so on. The size of the orc heads and helmets for example! Lots of character. Clearly Citadel have always done the same thing on a smaller scale for their 25/28mm stuff, too.


One thing that's turned me off many other 6-10mm ranges is that it looks like they've tried to put too much detail and subtlety in, and ended up with something that looks a bit chopped and chewed.

I don't mind it for vehicles, but I do find it a bit dull when people try to do 100% realistic proportions in smaller scales. Infantry just look like stick-figures.

Verm1s
16-12-2013, 13:38
Oh I have all the necessary tools (Except more fine detailed rubber shapers I need to consider)

For some reason the double-ended taper (http://heresyminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_89&products_id=186) has a finer point than the corresponding regular size 0 taper. At least that's the case with the few I have.
Otherwise, looks like I'm preaching to the choir! Although, ever thought of an optivisor...?


I agree in regards to the 6mm Epic look

I meant 10mm too - I have a wee Warmaster HE army myself, among other bits and pieces. :) (I should probably go measure some of them for you) For all their other faults I think GW did some of the most elegant, good-looking 10mms on the market, especially the Bo5A plastics. (Although they had the advantage of 3-ups)

I don't think I noticed that person doing 6mm here. Do you have a link?


At the moment I work with just green stuff at different mix ratios for a desired result, for larger projects miliput is a brilliantly hard drying & cheap "under layer" starter.
I haven't tried mixing green stuff with miliput yet though, may give that a try some time.

I use a bit of milliput myself, especially for cores and underlayers. :) And I almost always use it with at least a bit of GS mixed into it. ;)
You should give it a try soon. Greenstuff has it's little idiosyncracies that can sometimes cause problems, but they also make it probably the best putty for mixing with others; especially hard-curing, claylike types like milliput. I love that kind of mix for general sculpting, meself. Currently I'm using a GS/apoxie sculpt mix for things. The elastic, chewing-gum texture of the GS helps bind together the soft, 'crumbly' claylike putties, while they soften and loosen the memory and sometimes-stiffness of GS. Kinda the best of both worlds.
I probably don't have to tell you milliput can be sort of... aggressive. :p I've found it can dominate mixes, more so than others. You'd probably only need fairly little if you just want to loosen up GS a little, but more GS if you want to firm up some milliput.

Hope that's more help than waffle! In any case I'm looking forward to see your results.

THE-GOD-EMPEROR
17-12-2013, 22:11
Pretty much. I think their Warmaster range had the details just right for painting. Big weapons, hands, helmets, feathers and so on. The size of the orc heads and helmets for example! Lots of character. Clearly Citadel have always done the same thing on a smaller scale for their 25/28mm stuff, too.

I've always liked both versions for scaling for very different yet similar reasons. :D I like how fantasy dwarfs dwarfs look so out of proportion, but have this bad **** look to them with their huge arms/hands and shoulders. Always wondered how "basic" Dwarfs aren't strength 4! :P
I have noticed trying out at 10mm scale that keeping with the "heroic" look is rather easy to sculpt. So sticking with this method for now to keep my potential army looking symetarical.

I don't mind it for vehicles, but I do find it a bit dull when people try to do 100% realistic proportions in smaller scales. Infantry just look like stick-figures.

I agree in respects, think for such a small scale there is no harm in adjusting to better support the minis presence and as you say, give character.

THE-GOD-EMPEROR
17-12-2013, 22:34
For some reason the double-ended taper (http://heresyminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_89&products_id=186) has a finer point than the corresponding regular size 0 taper. At least that's the case with the few I have.
Otherwise, looks like I'm preaching to the choir! Although, ever thought of an optivisor...?

I have the larger sized tapers which seem even usable for 15mm, tried on 10mm on "rough" up sculpts of a couple of Dwarfs yesterday and note useful at all. lol
Will have to invest in the smaller "detail" ones me thinks!
I was actually wondering what those were (Optivisor) after seeing a few images of master sculptors using them.
Personally I think I'd work slower using one and a tad pricey considering I'm not as of yet thinking of making a career out of sculpting.
Also, I somehow have a very very good vision and manage very tiny details without one. So not wanting to mix up my methods of sculpting with any devices yet.
Maybe in the future I'll get tempted. ;)

I meant 10mm too - I have a wee Warmaster HE army myself, among other bits and pieces. :) (I should probably go measure some of them for you) For all their other faults I think GW did some of the most elegant, good-looking 10mms on the market, especially the Bo5A plastics. (Although they had the advantage of 3-ups)

I don't think I noticed that person doing 6mm here. Do you have a link?

Oh I clicked on the link Samsonov posted a few posts above. :)
I have to admit, GW have done a very good job in a 10mm scale attempt, just a shame the spear tips often bent/broke easily that it would be difficult to create in plastic/resin without breaking becoming even more common.

Oh and measuring even just any warrior top of head to bottom of boot would be awesome if possible. (I used to have a regiment of Dwarf warriors, High elf spearmen, Skeleton warriors before I passed them on to a friend) Also checked the web and not found any useful way of finding an exact scale to replicate. :P
So the help would be very well appreciated.
Especially since I've done 3 very rough looking warriors (not finished) to be scaled off and practice. Along with a slightly shorter one that looks much better, looks like an ironbreaker with two handed hammer, a Dwarf super unit? lol
I currently only have my iphone or my gf's ipad to take pics from to show you, but tbh the camera can't zoom enough to get any decent pic.
May put the "best" image I can get as a means of showing how he looks at least later tomorrow when I get home.
Along with my most complete 15mm Space marine.


I use a bit of milliput myself, especially for cores and underlayers. :) And I almost always use it with at least a bit of GS mixed into it. ;)
You should give it a try soon. Greenstuff has it's little idiosyncracies that can sometimes cause problems, but they also make it probably the best putty for mixing with others; especially hard-curing, claylike types like milliput. I love that kind of mix for general sculpting, meself. Currently I'm using a GS/apoxie sculpt mix for things. The elastic, chewing-gum texture of the GS helps bind together the soft, 'crumbly' claylike putties, while they soften and loosen the memory and sometimes-stiffness of GS. Kinda the best of both worlds.
I probably don't have to tell you milliput can be sort of... aggressive. :p I've found it can dominate mixes, more so than others. You'd probably only need fairly little if you just want to loosen up GS a little, but more GS if you want to firm up some milliput.

Hope that's more help than waffle! In any case I'm looking forward to see your results.

Since you've mentioned how the epoxies mix with eachother sounds rather appealing, not too sure for 10mm or even 15mm.
No doubt I'll have to try and see how I work with it, if it works well enough it could become useful since I like how much tougher the miliput dries when fully cured compared to green stuff.
As you say, it can become a very useful material to use for sharp edges and fillers.
Don't worry about "waffling" on as you say, I'm renowned for it. lol
I'm just not as easily drawn in on computers since I'm too lazy to type loads some times. As most people I suppose. :chrome:

THE-GOD-EMPEROR
17-12-2013, 22:38
Ugh...my posts got mixed in with the quotes....lol







For you Verm1s -Oh I clicked on the link Samsonov posted a few posts above. :)
I have to admit, GW have done a very good job in a 10mm scale attempt, just a shame the spear tips often bent/broke easily that it would be difficult to create in plastic/resin without breaking becoming even more common.

Oh and measuring even just any warrior top of head to bottom of boot would be awesome if possible. (I used to have a regiment of Dwarf warriors, High elf spearmen, Skeleton warriors before I passed them on to a friend) Also checked the web and not found any useful way of finding an exact scale to replicate. :P
So the help would be very well appreciated.
Especially since I've done 3 very rough looking warriors (not finished) to be scaled off and practice. Along with a slightly shorter one that looks much better, looks like an ironbreaker with two handed hammer, a Dwarf super unit? lol
I currently only have my iphone or my gf's ipad to take pics from to show you, but tbh the camera can't zoom enough to get any decent pic.
May put the "best" image I can get as a means of showing how he looks at least later tomorrow when I get home.
Along with my most complete 15mm Space marine.




For Zoggin-eck - I've always liked both versions for scaling for very different yet similar reasons. :D I like how fantasy dwarfs dwarfs look so out of proportion, but have this bad **** look to them with their huge arms/hands and shoulders. Always wondered how "basic" Dwarfs aren't strength 4! :P
I have noticed trying out at 10mm scale that keeping with the "heroic" look is rather easy to sculpt. So sticking with this method for now to keep my potential army looking symetarical.

THE-GOD-EMPEROR
20-12-2013, 10:47
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/20/zyteqane.jpg

This is the Ironbreaker/hammer I tried at doing.
This camera is horrid up close, so until I get a new camera, this will be the most detail you'll see. Haha
But since taking this photo he's hot some little extra details on him to finish him off, also started two The Hobbit styled Dwarves with spears I will soon put up too.

So from what you can see so far, think he fits the scale?


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Verm1s
21-12-2013, 01:06
Oh and measuring even just any warrior top of head to bottom of boot would be awesome if possible

HE spearmen are 9mm to the eye (juuust above 9mm; 9mm to the bottom of the eye if you like to be pedantic. And I do.) and almost 13mm to the top of the tall helm. For some reason archers and bolt thrower crew are a tad taller: 10mm to the eye (the brow) and unhelmed ones are 11mm to the top of their blow-dry 'do. I think this'd put spearmen at 10mm to the top of the head, which is what I'd personally go for. (Scale creep is a problem at these scales too. A lot of '10mms' out there are 12mm or more. I remember being excited by Mark Copplestone's then-new 10mm fantasy range, that promised to fill out gaps in the Battle of Five Armies range. His orcs were so huge besides my plastic wood elves that they looked more like GW-style gorillorcs - warbosses, even - rather than 'big goblins'. But I digress.)

On that note, BoFA elves match the WM spearmen.

I understand the caution about using milliput in 10mm sculpts. Meself, I think the claylike putties are a bit too soft, friable, and susceptible to dissolving with water to be used for such tiny details (regardless of scale), at least right out of the pack and freshly mixed. They do firm up nicely after about an hour (less with heat) but mixing in some GS achieves the same effect straight away - better, maybe. And of course if you're just mixing a little milliput into GS there's far less to worry about. :) In addition to everything I've said already, it also lightens the GS a bit, which can be useful seeing the details you're sculpting! (Why procreate is the colour it is)

Lastly, the dwarf is looking good! I hear you about cameras - I think mine gets worse the more minis I try to photograph. The blurriness does affect the pic a bit, but it does look clean and neat. What height is he?

(A wee bit of 'put might help the edges on future hammers too. :angel: )

THE-GOD-EMPEROR
28-12-2013, 18:22
Hey matey, long over due reply thanks to the frantic-ness of Christmas. Oh and Merry belated Christmas!
I was working on a few different projects over the festive season, The Hobbit scale Dwarven warriors, 28mm scale Sister of battle (40k), 15mm space marines, Ork boy & two Nobz and mid stages of an Eldar jet bike. I never seem to focus my attention on one project as you can likely tell. lol

The Ironbreaker/Hammer I sculpted measures to the very top of the head/helm 8mm, so not too bad I suppose.
Thanks a lot for the accurate measurements, means I won't have to throw around 20 for a regiment of Dwarf warriors on eBay. :)

I nearly finished the two hobbit themed Dwarves in 10mm scale too, will put up a WIP image of both shortly from my phone.
At the moment though, they measure around 1mm taller than the previous fantasy version I sculpted coming in at nearly 9mm to the top of the helm. So may have to do some fine adjustments. ;)

THE-GOD-EMPEROR
29-12-2013, 16:17
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/30/baqypuvy.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/30/ubybyzy6.jpg

Tried putting these up last night but wasn't working, now I can whilst using wifi. :)
They're both obviously not completed, but rather close to it.
These two are inspired by The Hobbit Dwarves in their heavy armour from Erebor.
Both are standing from base of the boot to the top of the helmet at just under 9mm.
Their boots aren't sculpted yet, but you can see where they will be when finished. :D
Also, their arms are going to be more trimmer looking instead of a blob of green stuff before being finished. Haha


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Samsonov
29-12-2013, 17:22
I have not seen the hobbit film so cannot comment on likeness but they certainly have their own unique character. Looking good.

THE-GOD-EMPEROR
01-01-2014, 17:43
I have no idea why that one image was posted twice, but thanks. :)
When they're fully done, I will post up on here.
At present, I'm considering a base of two rows of spear armed Dwarves in this similar fashion.
They were surprisingly easy to sculpt considering the level of detail for their size.
Hope you all had a merry Christmas and a happy New Year! :)


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doutdes
27-01-2014, 20:14
Please, is ist possible to see some of your work? Im absolutely interested in 15mm Orks and would even go so far as asking, if you would sell a few...

Btw, this seems to be a solution many of our friend talented in sculpting are realising at the moment. I just found a very nice 10mm crowdfunding for "evil men" in 10mm

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/evil-men-fantasy-10mm-miniatures


doutdes