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the gribbly
25-12-2013, 01:24
Question is simple, if you were to design a new chaos transport what would it be? I ask because one of my buddies who is an avid CSM player and fanboy has been disgruntled since the dawn of the emperium and has wished hoped and dreamed for better than vanilla rhinos hes had since 4th edition.

My first thoughts would be something along the lines of av 12/11/10 sporting options for hades autocannons possibly twin linked. Not assault but with no transport restrictions other than limited space, similar to the inquisitions chimera perhaps (as far as transport restrictions). That said id be interested in your take.

The Marshel
25-12-2013, 01:41
an open topped rhino would be handy and well received imo. A sicarian based transport with assault ram would also be very useful. Chaos want a tank they can assault from first and foremost.

MajorWesJanson
25-12-2013, 02:14
I would go dark mechanicus- An open topped 8 legged walker with a forgefiend head on the front mounting a ectoplasma cannon or hades autocannon. AV12/12/10 3 HP Walker. Fleet Daemon, It will not Die, 12 passengers, 125 points.

Bonzai
25-12-2013, 03:30
Land raider maurader: land raider pattern with a transport capacity of 16, side sponsons with 2 reaper auto cannon each side, and assault launchers.

Drop pod: as per marine dex.

War track: AV 11/10/10 fast, open topped, ramshackle. Fluff wise it is a scavenged converted civilian vehicle used to quickly move troops. Favored by berserkers.

Charistoph
25-12-2013, 03:45
A land raider with a 20 man transport capacity. It may need to even be reduced firepower to handle it, like just Hurricane Bolters and even maybe a TL Heavy Bolter.

iamcjb
25-12-2013, 09:07
A transport that holds 20 guys. Probably something based on a WWII landing craft, i.e. an open-top vehicle with an assault ramp.

To balance it I would have minimal weaponry, probably a heavy stubber. The ramp would also do a template of dmg on deployment (e.g. a str4 blast template, set at the base of the ramp).

In terms of armour it would be heavy at the front, and non-existant at the back.

Harwammer
25-12-2013, 09:32
Open topped Rhino is something I've also thought makes sense.

Maybe even a bigger version like an open topped land raider with the driver/main guns at the back, looking like a wwII lander with a capacity of 16. It wouldn't entirely make sense but CHAOS.

Commotionpotion
25-12-2013, 09:35
I'd have to go with a walking engine, since it would be building on a growing theme for CSMs.

Such a unit could be a dual kit with the Defiler. Instead of the turret, it would have a spine-encrusted carapace onto which it's cargo clings like a brood of baby scorpions :).

Low-mounted maw guns, either melta or flame based. Moves like the Maulerfiend and is used to provide infantry support for that daemon engine.

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Larkyn
25-12-2013, 11:40
The Dreadclaw.

TheBearminator
25-12-2013, 12:49
A bigger, better looking assault Rhino. By bigger I mean a model of decent size. Probably with better capacity as well, armour 12, 11, 10, assault rules and perhaps 80 points.

Bubble Ghost
25-12-2013, 14:19
CSM do really suffer for their army's incompetence at mobility. They struggle to apply the stats and weapons they pay for to as full an effect as everyone else can, meaning the points costs are almost universally over the odds, even the things that would be a reasonable cost in a better context (such as basic CSM themselves). But assault transports aren't the answer - to be honest, I think people who pine for assault vehicles on threads like this are really saying "I want it to be 5th ed again." You're basically asking for your particular army to be taken out of step with the rest of the edition.

I also don't think drop pods are the way to go. Yes, CSM have them in the pure fiction areas of 40K material, but that by itself is not a good enough reason to put them on the tabletop. I think having them as a Space Marine trademark is more important, and GW have product lines to distinguish, not just fiction to adhere to.

Personally, I'd like not a vehicle, but a purchasable special rule whereby the more baroque elements of the army (Obliterators, Mutilators, Lords/CSM/Chosen who are Veterans of the Long War, etc) are able deploy from warp rifts. Unit gets the daemon rule if it didn't already have it (not literally daemons, but have been hanging around in the Eye of Terror for way too long), and can deploy from reserve by scattering a marker then disembarking from it like a vehicle. Possibly with a pinning effect on nearby enemies, and making nearby psykers use less warp charge but suffer perils more easily while the marker is in place (unless that psyker has the daemon rule...).

Just an in-character way to get units where they're going, in a way that CSM really have trouble with.

Inquisitor Kallus
25-12-2013, 14:50
I find it hard to say this, but I disagree with your idea Bubble Ghost. Although I see why you want that, and in a way its cool, I also think the more 'material' elements of CSM bring about a certain feel. I cant really see a CSM army deploying ala daemons, or even a number of their things. Warp Talons can because theyre, well, part daemon. I love the idea of chaos ships amassing and disgorging pods and ships onto the planets surface, it has a whole........you can see your doom coming over the horizon........kind of thing. Flaming trails in the sky crashing down amongst your troops, then the carnage begins.


They still have technology, but I think the choice is important. Some kind of option to take what you proposed would be cool though, just that I dont thinkit should be a 'must have'. I think pods and flying trasports cld be cool. Chaos need an official THawk rules wise (on the larger scale battles), probably with its own thang as thw chaos warhound was to the imperial warhound etc. Maybe different options/payloads etc.

A variant land raider sounds great. I think with pods, new LR variant and storm raven esque transports combined with warp rifts could well make CSM a decent army.

Bubble Ghost
25-12-2013, 14:58
That's just it, I think it's a mistake to give Chaos marines all the regular marine trademarks, even if it's perfectly rational in purely fiction terms. CSM need to be marines BUT Chaos, not marines AND Chaos, and the drop pod alpha strike thing is quintessential Space Marine imagery that I think they need to keep to themselves - no matter how much sense it makes in the background for CSM to have them too.

Ssilmath
25-12-2013, 15:18
I actually like the idea of a warp rift, but think it should be something bought as a fortification that deep strikes onto the battlefield, using the same deviation rules for Drop Pods and allowing any units held in reserve to disembark from it when their roll comes up. Maybe make personal warp fields a wargear option for characters.

I'd also like to see a more utilitarian transport mentality for them. Defilers count as open topped transports for 6 guys who are grabbing onto it, but if it runs they all take dangerous terrain tests (Might fall off). A Land Raider gutted out and filled with troops would also be an option though I'm not sure I'd go for 20 guys, more like 16. Let icons not act as homing beacons, but let anybody who deep strikes and lands within 6 inches of an icon can assault that turn. Things that play up their more brutal tactics and preferences without being overpowered (Hopefully).

Personally, I think Rhino's do a pretty decent job, especially fielded in groups. Even melee units can use them to cross the board quickly and get some protection from shooting even on the turn they get out. They could use some supplement to that, though.

Knifeparty
25-12-2013, 16:00
Hell Raider: Essentially a land raider with 2 Twin linked Hades Auto Cannon on the side sponsons and Twin linked Heavy Flamer in the middle.

Daemonic Possession, Fear, Daemon, Daemon Forge, It will not die.

Instead of an assault ramp it has a Warp Rift in the front that allows any infantry unit being held in reserve to disembark and Assault out of it. Only one unit may do this per turn, Allied Daemons of Chaos units may also use the warp rift.

Beppo1234
25-12-2013, 16:12
I'd really like to see some Dark Mechanicus stuff, but I also want there to be a loyalist origin to any Chaos vehicles.

Grand Master Raziel
25-12-2013, 16:20
As far as basic dedicated transports go, Chaos has had it better than loyalist marines since they gained the Havoc launcher as a vehicle upgrade. Loyalists have to choose between transport capacity+firing point or transports that bring increased firepower to the table. Chaos can have both at once - slapping Havoc launchers onto Rhinos essentially makes them Whirlwinds with transport capacity that don't take up FOC slots. That's a pretty sweet deal right there.

I could see variant Land Raiders for Chaos, though I think a 20-man capacity is sheer wishlisting. I could also see Drop Pods, or maybe the Dreadclaw.

What I'd really like to see is something for Cultists to ride around in. Overall, I'd like to see the whole Cultist aspect of Chaos expanded - could maybe start with looted Chimeras and go from there.

Beppo1234
25-12-2013, 16:26
What I'd really like to see is something for Cultists to ride around in. Overall, I'd like to see the whole Cultist aspect of Chaos expanded - could maybe start with looted Chimeras and go from there.

I actually would like to have an 'un-orkified' battlewagon and/or 'un-orkified' trukkk for this.

Inquisitor Kallus
25-12-2013, 16:30
That's just it, I think it's a mistake to give Chaos marines all the regular marine trademarks, even if it's perfectly rational in purely fiction terms. CSM need to be marines BUT Chaos, not marines AND Chaos, and the drop pod alpha strike thing is quintessential Space Marine imagery that I think they need to keep to themselves - no matter how much sense it makes in the background for CSM to have them too.

The thing is, not every Chaos force utilizes the warp in that way. Some are far more inviting, others prefer the more 'material' options. This is the thing, choice. At the moment CSM dont have much in the way of choice to make a solid army. They are different enough to SM even if they have those vehicles and options. Marine forces, organisation and a number of other units that chaos have as well as ATSKNF make them different.

2 or so units that marines have do not make CSM into SM. Dreadclaws are a great fluffy unit. CSM have them in the background,I feel they should be able to utilize them in the game, along with a cool model. The Imperial Space marines dont need to keep that imagery for themselves, Marines need to have that imagery. The traitors had them at Istvaan V, one of the most iconic marine battles... .

I see where you are coming from, game wise, to differentiate the two forces and give them distinctly different playstyles, but im trying to look at it from different angles.

Bubble Ghost
25-12-2013, 18:05
Nothing wrong with Dreadclaws, they work totally differently. There'd be nothing wrong with drop pods in a CSM army either - provided they didn't have drop pod assault or intertial guidance systems. But at that point, I'd start questioning what they were doing there in the first place, and start wanting something specfic to the army.

Scammel
25-12-2013, 18:18
A basic, scaled-down, Chaotic Gorgon with standard speed and a moderate armour value whilst remaining open-topped. Something that reflects the dogma-free, straightforward, rough-and-ready technology that some of the warbands choose/have to make do with. Adorn with spikes, side-mounted scythes and some manner of horrific projectiles launched upon assault for flavour.

Freman Bloodglaive
25-12-2013, 18:30
Since certain Chaos factions are so dedicated to assault give them a means to get there.

Fast assault vehicle, armour 11/11/10 3HP, fast, tracked, open topped. Capable of carrying 16 marines or 8 terminators. No weapons other than upgrades. They're fragile, but they'll get across the table in a hurry. They're better than Rhinos for the express purpose of transporting troops into combat. I would have to price them higher, 70-80 points given what they're capable of.

Drop pods, of course.

ehlijen
25-12-2013, 19:41
Didn't chaos just get better bikes and jump troops as well as the best flyer in the game? I think they're pretty solid at mobility for an army that is supposed to me mid-range in that aspect. Marines are supposed to outmaneuver IG but not Eldar or Tau.

For what I'd add? The classic from the genestealer cult list, the truck.

Points 30
10/10/10, Open topped
Holds 12 models
Heavy stubber BS3
Dedicated option for cultists
For +10 points can reduce capacity to 10 and add a havoc launcher
Can take extra armour (5), smoke launchers (2) and/or searchlight (1)

malisteen
25-12-2013, 21:09
possesed assault or open topped transport tank (and to bubble - ork truks, deldar raiders, still exist in 6e and it would be a feature to distinguish chaos marines from loyalist counterparts). Available as dedicated transport to power armored csm units normally in elites slots - cult units, possessed, chosen.

Not a variant land raider, but the option to trade sponsons on the chaos landraider for other options with different capacities but the same points. Like, no sponsons capacity 16, flamers/heavy bolters 14, reapers 12, las 10, hades 8, something like that. Dedicated transport to chosen and termies.

Dread claw that works - not the current fw rules. Maybe damage/push back enemy units it lands on before deploying? Maybe arrive flying anywhere on the table, move, land, deploy in the following turn? I dont know, but the current rules are mostly just a way to waste a fast slot and 80+ points to deliver a unit straight to the mishap table's hungry maw. Anyway, fix it, and make it available as dedicated transport to dreadnoughts and any power armored csm unit. Not concerned about stepping on loyalist toes, not after the chaos chaplains and tech marines we got, and the loyalist oblits they got, and without the drop pod assault rules they'll still have a distinct edge in that department, anyway.

Not a transport, but I would also add an option for an 'icon of summoning' to any unit that can take icons, which would do the normal icon combat res thing plus count as a homing beacon, making deep striking termies more functional plus upping the currently rather lacking synergy between csms and their daemonic battle brothers.

Rovient
25-12-2013, 22:42
Lots of good comments in this thread so far so I won't add any more suggestions, but it's always seemed odd to me that one of the main strengths of CSM is being able to take much larger, cheaper units, yet there's no way to transport them. Loyalists have LR with up to 16 slots for their dudes and chaos certainly needs something similar. Swap out the hurricane bolters with reaper autocannon or similar and stick spikes on it. Done!

Freman Bloodglaive
25-12-2013, 23:45
Didn't chaos just get better bikes and jump troops as well as the best flyer in the game? I think they're pretty solid at mobility for an army that is supposed to me mid-range in that aspect. Marines are supposed to outmaneuver IG but not Eldar or Tau.


Better than what?

Better than they had? Certainly. Their bikes are so much better than they were that there's no point in taking Raptors. Their flier is so good there's little point in taking bikes.

Of course without that flier, or multiples thereof, Chaos are a third tier Codex. Even with it they're a second tier now that Tau and Eldar rule the roost.

Their troops have only Rhinos (or Land Raiders if you really want to waste points and heavy support slots) to get anywhere, and Rhinos die to nearly everything in this edition. Drop pods can actually get their contents into an attacking position, Rhinos struggle.

adreal
26-12-2013, 00:21
I wouldn't mind just rhinos if chaos had some way of getting mass scout/infiltrate. Even at a modest points per model upgrade (like veterans of the long war already is), then chaos lack of manouverability wouldn't be as upsetting. And before the complaints of how broken that this was in 3.5 please note that loyalists have two options to get mass scout for free, mass scouting rhino walls are a great way to alpha strike. Chaos having infiltrate/scout would be awesome, even if limited to power armoured models and it cost points to do it.

Inquisitor Kallus
26-12-2013, 01:14
possesed assault or open topped transport tank (and to bubble - ork truks, deldar raiders, still exist in 6e and it would be a feature to distinguish chaos marines from loyalist counterparts). Available as dedicated transport to power armored csm units normally in elites slots - cult units, possessed, chosen.

Not a variant land raider, but the option to trade sponsons on the chaos landraider for other options with different capacities but the same points. Like, no sponsons capacity 16, flamers/heavy bolters 14, reapers 12, las 10, hades 8, something like that. Dedicated transport to chosen and termies.

Dread claw that works - not the current fw rules. Maybe damage/push back enemy units it lands on before deploying? Maybe arrive flying anywhere on the table, move, land, deploy in the following turn? I dont know, but the current rules are mostly just a way to waste a fast slot and 80+ points to deliver a unit straight to the mishap table's hungry maw. Anyway, fix it, and make it available as dedicated transport to dreadnoughts and any power armored csm unit. Not concerned about stepping on loyalist toes, not after the chaos chaplains and tech marines we got, and the loyalist oblits they got, and without the drop pod assault rules they'll still have a distinct edge in that department, anyway.

Not a transport, but I would also add an option for an 'icon of summoning' to any unit that can take icons, which would do the normal icon combat res thing plus count as a homing beacon, making deep striking termies more functional plus upping the currently rather lacking synergy between csms and their daemonic battle brothers.

Great ideas. I dont know why they stopped the synergy of CSM marks with Daemons as allies (or indeed vice versa) if that unit has the appropriate mark. Maybe to do with balance

ehlijen
26-12-2013, 02:04
Better than what?

Better than they had? Certainly. Their bikes are so much better than they were that there's no point in taking Raptors. Their flier is so good there's little point in taking bikes.

Of course without that flier, or multiples thereof, Chaos are a third tier Codex. Even with it they're a second tier now that Tau and Eldar rule the roost.

Their troops have only Rhinos (or Land Raiders if you really want to waste points and heavy support slots) to get anywhere, and Rhinos die to nearly everything in this edition. Drop pods can actually get their contents into an attacking position, Rhinos struggle.

And they have their power armoured feet. Most of the things that kill rhinos aren't actually that hot against 3+ saves (autocannon and equivalents). Walking and running are existing options.

I'd like to see more cultist level gear (trucks, load lifter sentinels, modified civilian vehicles etc) instead of more chaos copies of loyalist marine gear. Even traitor guard gear would be more welcome to me.

MajorWesJanson
26-12-2013, 04:32
And they have their power armoured feet. Most of the things that kill rhinos aren't actually that hot against 3+ saves (autocannon and equivalents). Walking and running are existing options.

I'd like to see more cultist level gear (trucks, load lifter sentinels, modified civilian vehicles etc) instead of more chaos copies of loyalist marine gear. Even traitor guard gear would be more welcome to me.

Well, hopefully next edition, when cultists get a full multi-part kit, they will get far more in the way of traitor guard options. Maybe make them somewhat more like the warrior acolytes from the Inq warband.

Freman Bloodglaive
26-12-2013, 09:38
And they have their power armoured feet. Most of the things that kill rhinos aren't actually that hot against 3+ saves (autocannon and equivalents). Walking and running are existing options.

I'd like to see more cultist level gear (trucks, load lifter sentinels, modified civilian vehicles etc) instead of more chaos copies of loyalist marine gear. Even traitor guard gear would be more welcome to me.

Foot slogging? I don't see a single autocannon in an Eldar army, but I'm fairly sure a foot slogging Marine list will not get to their side of the table.

ehlijen
26-12-2013, 09:54
Foot slogging? I don't see a single autocannon in an Eldar army, but I'm fairly sure a foot slogging Marine list will not get to their side of the table.

Why not? Scatter lasers and the feared wave serpent shields don't ignore power armour. Bikes, jump packs and deepstrikers are available. And you have heavy fire support units that are great at taking out eldar tanks.

Footslogging is a perfectly viable means of playing, unless you really don't have enough terrain.

kendaop
26-12-2013, 13:09
For some reason, I feel like chaos should have some sort of transport that tunnels onto the battlefield from underground, like they're coming out from the pits of hell. Any models underneath it would take a hit, ala mawlok, and then they could assault out of it as well.

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IcedCrow
26-12-2013, 13:47
Foot slogging? I don't see a single autocannon in an Eldar army, but I'm fairly sure a foot slogging Marine list will not get to their side of the table.

Sure if you're playing on a table with 4 or 5 small pieces of terrain that will probably be the outcome.

Beppo1234
26-12-2013, 16:10
For some reason, I feel like chaos should have some sort of transport that tunnels onto the battlefield from underground, like they're coming out from the pits of hell. Any models underneath it would take a hit, ala mawlok, and then they could assault out of it as well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

squats and guard used to have the mole back in the day... and it'd make a pretty cool model (you'd only ever need the front half of the model bursting out of the ground). I considered building one at one point using an old TMNT vehicle.

and to add, I think that with some slight modification, the ork truck and battlewagon could be used as alternate non-stc vehicles for CSMs and cultists. You take off the orky glyphs and teeth... and you've got some pretty standard looking vehicles there.

gwarsh41
26-12-2013, 21:17
Screw it all, bring out the daemonic chaos fun!

A chariot transport. Big nasty thing pulled by 2-3 juggernauts. 12/12/10. When the chariot makes a successful charge, all units inside automatically disembark and are locked in combat. The chariot has 2D6 hammer of wrath hits, although they are only S4, this is to represent the juggernauts trampling their foes. This chariot does not provide an improved save to the models inside.
The bonus to this transport is that it would protect the models from overwatch, which would do wonders against Tau gunlines. The dudes inside could also all still fire their assault weapons before charging. A small balance is that the units inside do not gain the +1 attack for assaulting. Or maybe they could, I don't know.

Spiney Norman
26-12-2013, 21:31
I would have some kind of daemonic vehicle, then instead of a transport compartment have it mounting some kind of warp portal and have it work similar to the wormhole on the necron Nightscythe.

htsmithium
26-12-2013, 22:17
To be honest I think if they just changed demonic possession to actually turn a vehicle into a deamon ( the whole 5++, IWND) while keeping the negatives and to have to pay for demon specific ,like deamon princes, marks it would make the various transports ( not to mention there other vehicles) just a tad more survivable yet still not game breaking.

IcedCrow
26-12-2013, 23:01
That would be cool. However unless it was an assault vehicle or possesses the ability to assault on turn 1 or negate enemy shooting, youll still get the cacophony of anger about how they suck and that they have a 103.6% chance of being totally destroyed by shooting in turn 1.

However expanded possession rules of vehicles would be a lot of fun.

Gig
27-12-2013, 01:25
Something like the subterranean APC from command and conquer tiberian sun, with the ability to deep strike (maybe with Mawloc esk rules for leaving a hole), and assault vehicle rules.

Then give it rules for the drill to make its ramming ability superior to regular tanks but not as good as a death rolla, possibly even give it 2d6 armour pen vs buildings,

http://www.deviantart.com/art/Nod-Subterranean-APC-405883211


For some reason, I feel like chaos should have some sort of transport that tunnels onto the battlefield from underground, like they're coming out from the pits of hell. Any models underneath it would take a hit, ala mawlok, and then they could assault out of it as well.

Missed this post :P

Freman Bloodglaive
27-12-2013, 04:57
Why not? Scatter lasers and the feared wave serpent shields don't ignore power armour. Bikes, jump packs and deepstrikers are available. And you have heavy fire support units that are great at taking out eldar tanks.

Footslogging is a perfectly viable means of playing, unless you really don't have enough terrain.

Have you played against Eldar since they've been updated?

Even the once humble shuriken catapult now chews through power and terminator armour.

Please, try foot slogging Chaos Marines against Eldar and come back and tell us how it goes.

09philj
27-12-2013, 14:40
Imagine a daemon engine that looks like a tervigon...

dangerboyjim
27-12-2013, 22:29
I was thinking a lord of battle variant, with the warrior thing at the front replaced by an assault ramp and the tanks on the back swapped for a war altar thing and a bit of dakka scattered around the place. Maybe have god specific variants or the option to create a mobile warp rift, daemons spilling through into the tank and then delivering them straight into the battle. Or use the war altar to give embarked characters free rolls on the gifts table. Maybe using an embarked squad of cultists as sacrificial victims...

Kind of like a Chaos Leviathan but with less focus on directing the war and more inspiring the troops by sacrificing a whole load of people for everyone to see, a mobile cathedral to chaos.

IcedCrow
27-12-2013, 22:39
Have you played against Eldar since they've been updated?

Even the once humble shuriken catapult now chews through power and terminator armour.

Please, try foot slogging Chaos Marines against Eldar and come back and tell us how it goes.

Have done so. Good game. Using appropriate terrain means cover. Their weapons that chew through armor do so on a 6, not every time. Coupled with appropriate cover and what do ya know, the sky didnt fall on us!

CommissarMagoo
30-12-2013, 03:12
I don't think Chaos needs a new transport but upgrading the vehicles with a specific mark will make them stand out from their loyalist counterparts.

Mark of Nurgle: Can bolster 1 point of armor to front,sides,or rear armor. (only 1 arc though and maximum of 13) perhaps IWND instead?
Mark Of Khorne: Makes vehicles have the fear special rule when tank shocking. Perhaps makes stationary rhinos count as open topped?
Mark of Tzeentch: Grants the vehicle a 5+ invul save. (can stack up if the vehicle already has an invul)
Mark of Slaanesh: Makes vehicles have the infiltrate special rule. Or perhaps instead have the vehicles weapons have the ignore cover special rule?

This can be re written in many ways but this will give us some flexibility on how we deploy and use our vehicles. Thoughts?

Harwammer
30-12-2013, 13:49
Someone mentioned wanting an assault rhino is pineing after the 5th ed days. That's not really a valid criticism of the suggestion; I suggested an open topped rhino and 1) I only ever played 1 game of 5th (a demo game from the starter box) and 2) I just like the idea of frothing lunatics gripping on to the railings of a tracked truck vehicle, ready to explode with rage, as they hurtle across the battlefield. Perhaps I should be playing orks?

Blinder
30-12-2013, 15:11
Someone mentioned wanting an assault rhino is pineing after the 5th ed days. That's not really a valid criticism of the suggestion; I suggested an open topped rhino and 1) I only ever played 1 game of 5th (a demo game from the starter box) and 2) I just like the idea of frothing lunatics gripping on to the railings of a tracked truck vehicle, ready to explode with rage, as they hurtle across the battlefield. Perhaps I should be playing orks?

I don't know if it's "pining for 5th," "pining for 3rd" maybe but vehicles in general were easily more screwed up back then than they are now, just in different ways. I think the ork remark is possibly a bit more important than it was originally meant to be, though. If you look at the existing "can charge out of it" transports, you have things like Land Raiders which are big and expensive and tend to carry nasty and expensive units, and you have things like Trukks and Raiders which are cheap(ish) and (somewhat) flimsy, and if they're carrying fighty units the units are also cheap(ish) and/or (somewhat) flimsy. This works fairly well, because you can't spam mass-murder units for reliable Turn 2 target deletion that are likely to survive to delete something else on Turns 3, 4, 5, and possibly even 6. It's definitely a source of frustration for those upper-end foot-mobile combat units which are still meant to show up in some numbers but aren't considered worthy of one of the upper-end assault transports, but I think in those cases (berzerkers, banshees, ogryn (well they're *supposed* to be competent at least, and for their cost/size Chims are... "not quite")) the better solution is less about new assault/open-topped transports and more about a mid-range transport that can get them where they need to be and help them survive being in the open on T2 *without* making it feel like you have to spam the hell out of them (4+ rhinos don't do a terrible job giving enough berzerkers time to start munching their way along a flank, even if 2 of them are empty, but buying "tank shield" transports feels very gamey to me, in the "bad taste in your mouth" sense).

So, perhaps instead of assault ramps the "assault rhino" ditches everything but the smoke launcher and goes up to 12/11/11 for a bit of a points increase (not a ton, but that makes it a LOT more survivable), with terrain and stun protection being the only upgrades available (dirge casters are upgrades on the rhinos, right?). That makes it a reasonably tough transport that can put something like berzerkers or plague marines into position and do a better job of helping them not get shot by the *whole* enemy army if needs be, without having to jump all the way to Land Raider points and (hopefully) without making "just pile a bunch of choppy guys into cheap transports" super-reliable again.

I'd probably limit it to cult units (eh, chosen could probably find one somewhere as well), and it'd be neat to have something to buy based on the marks... probably not as much as suggested above but I could see khorne getting to pile out after a 12" move but the next turn you can only assault 1 target and it counts as disorganized, tzeentch could get stealth outside of 12", nurgle knocks D(remaining hullpoints when it was shot) off pen rolls, slaanesh I'd be more inclined to allow a re-deploy after infiltrators rather than making them actual infiltrators. Maybe only allow up to 2 + one for your Warlord's mark, and I'd only put that on the "just a transport" transport.

Harwammer
30-12-2013, 15:30
Now you mention chosen I've realised open topped rhino's might be a little open to abuse if filled with shooty units?

Smoke launchers do nothing to protect disembarked troops anymore, do they? Perhaps it is a core rules change that would help.

techsoldaten
30-12-2013, 16:49
A land raider with a 20 man transport capacity. It may need to even be reduced firepower to handle it, like just Hurricane Bolters and even maybe a TL Heavy Bolter.


Open topped Rhino is something I've also thought makes sense.

Maybe even a bigger version like an open topped land raider with the driver/main guns at the back, looking like a wwII lander with a capacity of 16. It wouldn't entirely make sense but CHAOS.

Perhaps you mean the Spartan Assault Tank? Holds 25 models, equipped slightly better than a Land Raider (with resistance to melta weapons) and only costs a few points more.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Tanks/SPARTAN_ASSAULT_TANK.html

CommissarMagoo
30-12-2013, 17:11
Perhaps instead of being open topped it counts as an assault vehicle if the Rhino hasn't moved. That's going back to the days of 5th ed but the changes of cover and HP in 6th edition might balance it out.

Blinder
30-12-2013, 17:58
Now you mention chosen I've realised open topped rhino's might be a little open to abuse if filled with shooty units?

Smoke launchers do nothing to protect disembarked troops anymore, do they? Perhaps it is a core rules change that would help.

Smoke launchers don't help the troops, but they help the vehicle hiding/giving cover to the troops do a better job of it.

Charistoph
30-12-2013, 18:50
Perhaps you mean the Spartan Assault Tank? Holds 25 models, equipped slightly better than a Land Raider (with resistance to melta weapons) and only costs a few points more.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Tanks/SPARTAN_ASSAULT_TANK.html

Um, no, I did not. That one's dang cheap for the price, has better firepower than a standard Raider, tougher, AND better capacity. My proposal would at least be balanced by what's already out there, a simply modified Crusader.

insectum7
30-12-2013, 21:24
A Chaos Storm Raven. It can carry the hard stuff and deploy them into the thick of it. It could also do the Skies of Fury bit to get your models on the table fast.

Also takes a heavy slot :)

crandall87
31-12-2013, 10:35
A larger land raider variant would be nice considering so many of our squads can have 20 models in them. Even 10 men squads with a character can't fit in a land raider atm.

Failing that maybe some sort of open topped crawler daemon engine, like a giant spider or something that ignores difficult terrain.

Col. Dash
31-12-2013, 11:04
Drop pods, dread claws, and Storm Birds.

Garanaul the Black
31-12-2013, 20:03
-Our own Land Raider pattern. Something with a capacity of more than 10 and armed with assault oriented weaponry. I'd love to field a simple unit of 10 Marines with two specials and an attached Lord or Dark Apostle. A Land Raider that holds 12 would be amazing. Something designed with weaponry that I could fire as it advanced as full speed would be nice. There are so many Chaos units that want to be in close combat, it would be great if there was an option designed solely for that purpose.

-Drop Pods. I find this one baffling. There are mentions of these things all over the place, they exist in the background and are heavily referred to in previous rules books and Black Library supplements. Drop Pods are an iconic means of precision inserting Marines into situations to execute surgical strikes, which is more or less what Marines were designed for. Make them cost more or take a Fast Attack slot to represent that they're difficult to maintain, make their deployment rules differ from Loyalist Marines to set them apart.

I really like the Storm Raven kit and would love an excuse to buy one but I understand why we don't have access to them.
The assault Rhino is also another interesting, but unlikely, concept. A 12/11/10 transport with some sort of number limit on it (1 available for every Rhino or Troops only or something) would help get our short to medium ranged and assault leaning troops where they want to be: in the enemy's face.

This thread is fun but it looks like GW wants to go in another direction with Chaos, favoring Drakes and Fiends. My opinions on these are probably for another thread though.

crandall87
02-01-2014, 14:38
Drop pods are a good shout. They would certainly make Chosen a better option if they could drop in with 5 special weapons on turn 1

Fingers
02-01-2014, 20:00
Maybe if you wanted to go the opposite of Drop Pods, something that acts similar but burrows out from the "earth" or phases in from the warp. Maybe a warp gate you can place like the Dark Eldar one wherein anyone from Reserves can come in through it.

My choice would be a Storm Raven Equivalent with some Reaper Auto Cannons or Butcher Cannons or something on it, that can carry 15 people. 12/12/10 or something.