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Xceptiona1
02-01-2014, 15:21
I am in the process of building my first army and have a question about shields. the night goblins come with shield and weapon, I upgrade them to spears and I think they should get to use spear and shield, for the parry roll, but a buddy says I have to decide each round if I use my standard weapon and shield OR just the spear but only his units can use a shield with other weapons because of a special rule his army has? Being new I'm confused as to how this works.

Thank you

Artinam
02-01-2014, 15:36
Spears are onehanded weapons, meaning you can use them with a shield.
You cannot parry with a spear, you can only parry if you have a just a handweapon and a shield (and then only when fighting to the front).
If you have a 'special' weapon, Spear, Halberd, Great Weapon ect. you HAVE to use it. If you buy spears for the Night Goblins they will use spear and shield.

If you have multiple special weapons you choose which one at the start of the combat. (So if you had a spear or a great weapon, you get to choose).

No army really has a special rule that changes weapon usage (only Black Orcs and Bretonnian characters I think).

Mr_Rose
02-01-2014, 15:37
You're both wrong.
You must use the spear&shield and you won't get a parry save for doing so.
See pp.88-89 "Special Weapons" and note that a spear is a special weapon.

Edit:
NB: there is no general rule that says you cannot use a spear and shield together and thus there should not be an army special rule that says that you can. I suggest you both sit down together outside the context of a game and re-read whatever rule it is that he is claiming says that.

SanDiegoSurrealist
02-01-2014, 15:39
You can not Parry unless you are using Hand Weapon and Shield.
Spears give you an extra rank of attacks but you do lose the parry, so it is a trade off of what is going to be more useful to you.

If his Army (I am assuming Elf) has a "Special Rule" written in their Army Book that allows them to use spears and still parry, then that rule will supersede the Main Rule Book.

Xceptiona1
02-01-2014, 15:46
I think the models I got is what initially confused me, they are night goblins and have shields and spears and I was confused by that fact. I couldn't figure out why games workshop would have spear/shield be a default look for the night goblins, but in reality the shields weren't actually used. I think I was reading into it too much. Thanks for the the help.

SanDiegoSurrealist
02-01-2014, 16:19
I think the models I got is what initially confused me, they are night goblins and have shields and spears and I was confused by that fact. I couldn't figure out why games workshop would have spear/shield be a default look for the night goblins, but in reality the shields weren't actually used. I think I was reading into it too much. Thanks for the the help.

You still get the armor bonus of +1 for the shield you just don't get the parry (6+ Ward Save) with it if you are using it combined with a Spear

Artinam
03-01-2014, 09:25
You're both wrong.
You must use the spear&shield and you won't get a parry save for doing so.
See pp.88-89 "Special Weapons" and note that a spear is a special weapon.

How am I wrong, I'm basicly saying the same thing as you (paraphrasing what is said in the rulebook?)

sorberec
03-01-2014, 09:44
How am I wrong, I'm basicly saying the same thing as you (paraphrasing what is said in the rulebook?)
Think he was referring to the OP and the OP's opponent

Lorcryst
03-01-2014, 10:42
Just a couple of things to add :

In the 8th Ed O&G army book, the Spear option for the Night Goblins replaces the Hand Weapn ... you don't get both ! But it's free, point-wise, to swap them.

The models from the 7th Ed Starter Set, Battle for Skull Pass, are monoblock Spear-and-Shield Night Goblins, your confusion might stem from that ... the current kit for the Night Goblins has the three options (HW+Shield, Spear+Shield, Shortbows).

Catflap
03-01-2014, 11:06
How does it work for let's say dwarf thunderers with shields? Do they get a parry save in close combat? Do they switch to their handweapon/shield combo?

Artinam
03-01-2014, 11:13
Exactly, Dwarven Handguns cannot be used in closecombat, So your only choice is handweapon + shield (thus giving you a parry save).

Lorcryst
03-01-2014, 11:19
How does it work for let's say dwarf thunderers with shields? Do they get a parry save in close combat? Do they switch to their handweapon/shield combo?

Missile weapons are not used in the close combat phase, so yes, Dwarf Thunderers with the Shield upgrade do indeed get a +1 to their armour save (giving them a 5+ for Light Armour + Shield) AND a 6+ Parry Ward Save, making them one of the most solid Missile Troops in the game (even if my Dwarf playing friend swore to never used them again because his can't hit the broadside of a barn).

But if you took the "brace of pistols" upgrade for the Thunderers Veteran, he must use his two pistols in close combat (per the rule that says that "special weapons must be used"), losing the Parry Save and the +1 to armour, but gaining an additionnal attack (3 attacks in total).

Same thing with "surface" gobboes armed with Short Bows and Shields, in fact, they used their "basic" Hand Weapons and Shields in close combat, and their Short Bows at a distance.

There might be even more Missile-armed troops that can take shields somewhere, but I don't have access to my collection of Army Books right now ...