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Minigiant
07-01-2014, 16:56
Welcome to the guide

TABLE OF CONTENTS
(to read a part, simply click on it)

Beginners Mistakes


"Gold Plating" your characters

As a new player (and sometimes even experienced) there is a point when buying more gear for your characters becomes unnecessary. Characters should be fitted out to perform their role and no more. any additional equipment is lost points that are now not being spent elsewhere.

example:Having a level 2 warlock with a warlock weapon, condenser, pistol, and doomrocket. While itís great that he is so well geared, he now costs about 168 points. It becomes much more difficult to earn his points back. More than likely he is only ever going to cast warplightning so drop the warlock weapon and the pistol which grant only a slight bonus for an overdose in points.

"Gold Plating" your units

Much like characters some new players will attempt to gear out their units with every possible upgrade they can. Normally creating a unit that is overdosed in points is sub optimal in battle. Again, the goal of units is to fulfil their one job and only the bare minimum points that can be spent to achieve this should be.

example: Include adding a master moulder to rat ogres with things catchers and shock prods. a master moulder is a highly unnecessary upgrade and giving him additional equipment is highly wasteful. Other examples include storm vermin champions that have any gear other than what their unit has.

You must construct additional models

New players tend to build lists without enough models, Skaven are a horde army so try and make it look like one. Therefore you must construct more models in units, new or in some cases returning prior edition players will take units minimum sized (around 20 models) This will not work in the current edition.

Not reading the rulebook/most recent FAQ

Very simply, read the BRB before you go to make a list. Some of the more common mistakes include not having enough core points, having too much of any other options, to many duplicate units, duplicate magic items, a poor understanding of which model can be the battle standard and more. Of course anyone on this forum will assist you if you have questions but 9/10 times we learned the answer by flipping through our BRB.

I took all the shiny ones

Yes, some Skaven stuff looks cool, but some of it also is sub optimal. If anything it is the Skaven core that wins our battles.



Basic Concepts

For those of you disheartened by the above part, don't be. Here are some very simple and very easy to remember tips and tricks of early (and advanced) list building.


1 model for every 10 points

It won't matter at which pointís size youíre playing, if youíre playing 2000 points have 200 models, 2500? 250 models and so on. Note you do not have to have exactly 250 models in 2500 points. This is just a formula to get you close to the optimum number that you should be wielding.

1 Slave for every 20 points

It has long been a point of fact that slaves are one of Skavens greatest tools. They provide the bodies that make Skaven a true horde army. Just like the one per 10 guideline above, you do not have to have 1 slave for every 20 points. It is a general consensus that slaves are a vital part of Skaven tactics and list building.

Minimum unit sizes

In general, the minimum unit size for Skaven blocks (i.e. things that are not skirmishers or giant rants or ogres) should be 30 models. Slaves should be minimum 40 (or as an alternative, 33% bigger than your opponentís largest units). Steadfast is our best friend in this edition and to play competitively you had to take advantage of that.

Level 4

Always take a grey seer (even if naked) in games of 2000 points or more. Enemy level 4s will wreck your force if you don't have proper magical defense.

A battle standard bearer

You should have one at ALL POINTS LEVELS. A battle standard bearer is a huge boon for the Skaven race as it allows us to re-roll our otherwise frail leadership; even if itís only a naked battle standard bearer hiding in a unit. TAKE ONE!

A bunker unit

This is a slightly smaller unit that is placed behind the front lines to hold characters, by being behind other units you highly limit the amount of damage the unit can take so that your characters (which at best are only average compared to the other races) can continue to give out the much need battle standard bearer and leadership 7 to other units within 12". This 12" zone is going to be referred to as your "Leadership Bubble" or just "bubble" from this point on.

Bunkers do not have to follow the 30 minimum models rule for clanrats, or (in the off chance you use slaves) the 40 model rule.

Most bunkers range from 20-30 man units. They are almost always smaller than a normal unit. Basically, the amount of models in a bunker unit is relative to how much shooting and magic you expect them to encounter. They are wounds for your very important characters. They do not need to be uber big because you do not want them to be in combat.

However, I strongly advise clanrats over slaves, sometimes a flying unit gets through, a unit snakes past. Some unholy act of divine wrath causes your bunker to be stuck in combat, should a bunker that is slaves lose combat and break, all your expensive characters just died, clanrats give your characters that are not your battle standard bearer a chance to rally, or at least not flee off the board.

Now a bell bunker is slightly different, I recommend 40 clanrats as a staple amount for a bell unit, not only are you going to lose models to the enemies shooting and magic, but miscasts on the bell kill a lot of models, bell results add a few more, and so on and so on. Plus, this gives you the ability (though rare) to charge the bell into combat when absolutely necessarily. (Or perhaps once the grey sear has died)

At least 1 "combat block" for every 750 points

A combat block is a ranked unit of infantry that is not your bunker. While simple, this rule makes sure you don't find yourself with only 3 fighting units in a 2500 point game.

One Hammer for each 1000 points

As points go up so does the need to inflict terrible damage. Therefore each level of points (0-1000, 1001-2000, ext) dictates how many hammers will be needed to be efficient. Exceeding this number may be difficult while holding true to the above rules but doing so can result in some pretty nasty lists.



Basic Overlay of all units. (Lord and Heroes)

NOTE!: This is not a list of strengths vs weaknesses. These are "general statements" which convey some of the synergies that can be used with the models in an army as a whole rather than as lone components.

As ordered in the Skaven Army book:

Lords and Heroes



Vermin Lord

500 points and can not be your general. Very weak, slow, and can get one shot by a cannon. In 3000 points he can be fun to play with but in anything else he is simply not worth it. He's simply too much of a risk for too little of a reward. When you do choose to bring out the beast, use him against smaller troops and keep him moving around and finding good charges, don't just run him into a bunch of infantry and expect him to end up living.

Warlord

In my personal opinion the warlord choice will be based on whether or not you gave your grey seer a bell, because as stated before, you will want to take a grey sear. Warlords can make a good general freeing up your grey seer to blow himself up. they can be geared either defensibly or for offence. And they can carry the Fellblade which can melt a steam tank in one turn. More than likely you will see them fulfil the role of general and geared for survival.

subpart: Warlord Mounts

Warlords have access to three mounts, a warlitter, Rat ogre bonebreaker, or a great pox rat. These mounts are great ways to increase your warlordís effectiveness but run some risks; this is the order from best to worst in terms of ability and compatibility.

War-litter

Gives +1 armour, grants a look out sir when in infantry, and basically gives him 4 stormvermin attacks. This is by far the best mount and in my opinion the ONLY true mount for warlords.

Rat Ogre Bonebreaker

While a good option (5 S5 attacks is nothing to sneeze at, not to mention an extra wound), the ogre runs some great risks, and he exposes your warlord to cannonballs and also normal shooting to some degree. a good mount for a warlord who carries the fellblade as it will help increase his already considerable damage output.

Great pox rat

You lose lookout sir, don't gain much in way of attacks (or movement) if your going to risk it without line of sight than go big and take a bone breaker.


Grey Seer

Fill the critical level 4 wizard option. They also, unlike any other races wizards, have the ability to pick which lore to role from right before the start of each game. Buying taking a grey seer you give yourself access to both the lore of plague and destruction which can be huge when you end up fighting ogres instead of high elves. They also have access to one of the best spells in the entire game (dreaded thirteenth aka the curse of the horned rat) Gear on Grey Seers should be highly for magic defense or the grey seer's survival.


Screaming Bell

Screaming bells provide a few things for a few risks, the bell itself makes a unit unbreakable, gives the grey seer a larger base (and slightly longer spell range because of it) a 360 LoS for casting, gives him a 4+ ward save and a 6+ armour save, he and his unit gain MR2, and random magical benefits to the whole army. if the grey seer is the general he also gains an 18" inspiring presence instead of 12". However a bell becomes a great target for cannon shots, flying monsters and characters, and other nasties to target. Basically running a bell will more than likely dramatically change your list and as such there is a section later about this.

As a note, one of the ways to protect your sear from a possible charge is to turn the bell and it's unit sideways. This means you will be hit on the flank... but as you are unbreakable your opponent will have to dig through X amount of rats in order to actually break the unit; Fantastic way to use pointís denial.


Assassin

Highly over-costed for what they do most of the time. While they can efficiently kill enemy wizards and some hero level characters normally that character is far cheaper than the assassin geared to kill him. In short, there are cheaper and more efficient ways to kill things than assassins. HOWEVER, do to some of the tricks you can pull with a screaming bell (utilizing the maximize rule as well as the fact that the bell can have an odd number of models on one side) which allow assassins to pick and choose what they want to fight as opposed to just praying for some good luck, it's still expensive but it's more effective than chieftain spam.

Warlock-Enginner

Warlocks are amazing; you will see them in every army doing something or another. Typical examples of good warlock use include level 1 wizard with a condenser or dispel scroll. A warlock toy bringer (a naked warlock with a doomrocket, brass orb or death globe) or as lone 15 point redirection units (possibly even more effective than the highly prized rat darts) there is no need to give defensive gear to warlocks. They are cheap to begin with and you want to keep them that way. Warlocks can also be used to as cheap babysitters for slaves, granting the slaves leadership 8 if outside of the bubble. However this will only last outside of combat as an intelligent opponent will focus attacks on the warlock first. The doomrocket item is a must take in the competitive scene.

Chieftain

Each army will include at least one; your battle standard bearer. Battle standard bearers can either be giving a magic banner (in which case they should be bunkered behind the lines for protection, or some defensive gear (in which they should still be behind in a bunker unit) Taking chieftains that are not battle standards is not recommended except in lower points values where they can replace a warlord as a general.

Plague Priest

Plague priests are our one true fighty character outside of the warlord. With high stats and a wizard to boot, he can dish it out to the other races heroes and in some cases lords. He should be equipped with a flail (at the very least) for offense and any manor of unit buffing trinkets.


Plague Furnace

The furnace is similar to the bell in a few ways, it makes the unit pushing it unbreakable, gives it magic resistance 2, gives the plague priest riding it a larger casting base and a 360 line of sight. (And if for some unskaveny reason you took a plague priest as your general it would give him an 18" inspiring presence) But most importantly it hits like a brick and then some. It competes with storm vermin and hellpits for best Skaven hammer unit. It does however suffer greatly from the lack of a ward save against the nasty cannon balls that come its way and generally relies on smashing through units in a single turn. However a furnace supported unit can still be a very durable unit and like the bell can be turned sideways against a stronger and more powerful foe.

Minigiant
07-01-2014, 16:57
Basic Overlay of all units. (Core, Special and Rares)

Core


Clanrats

The bread and butter unit, all Skaven lists should have at least a single clanrat unit as a bunker if nothing else. They fight better than slaves, the have more armour than slaves, they can rally unlike slaves, they don't need a general watching them all the time, and they can bring a weapon team to the field. They also bring banners for the banner mission.

subpart: weapons teams

Weapons teams are debatable as a competitive unit. Basically they are an investment in points that is frail and prone to miss or misfire but bring in considerable ranged firepower (mostly in the form of templates). Regardless some of them can be used competitively but know that warp cannons are always a preferred option. The weapon teams are ranked from most to least competitive.


Poison wind mortar

Able to hide behind unit for safety. Drops templates that wound on a 5+ all the time and ignores armour. In addition the only weapon team that can move and fire. also has the most forgiving misfire table out of all the Skaven devices. By far the best weapons team for all occasions but if you can afford a Warp lightning cannon then you should spend the points and get those instead.

Warp flame thrower

Forced to the front do to its limited range (even with the most recent faq), highly vulnerable to shooting and misfire but often the damage it inflicts is worth the cost, can also stand and shoot. The big teardrop template is difficult to miss with when on an opponent’s flank. Easily one of the most devastating template weapons in the game, especially against ogres.

Ratling gun

A high probability to misfire and a low hit and wound count limit its use-fullness to picking off skirmishers, lone characters, and war machine hunters. can also stand and shoot. Can be a good option do to it being ignored since it is not as powerful as the other teams. Also good for guarding your very important warplightning cannons from flyers, and skirmishers that your blocks can't engage.

Doomflayer

Tends to get shot before it makes it into combat, when it does make it into combat generates about the same attacks as the same amount of points worth in storm vermin. Almost ALWAYS better to just leave it at home and invest in a doomwheel at that point.

Warp grinder

Simply too risky to be competitive, there are some really cool ideas that would be great for fun lists but the warp grinder serves no real purpose in a well-balanced tournament list.


Stormvermin

The 3rd most optimal hammer unit, storm vermin can also be taken as a 10 man "banner" unit that can carry the storm banner, a rather nasty piece of cloth. When used as a hammer should be given the razor standard or the banner of the under empire to try and generate more wounds. Consider investing in a ruin sear or a warlock with skavenbrew in order to buff them up in killing power. Ideally one of the best ways to run SV now is with a bell unit which allows them to forget their lack of ranks (one of their biggest offsets)

subpart: Stormvermin vs Plaguemonks
storm vermin have low armour values for their points, however they are the only choice other than characters and rat ogres that are strength 4. They are WS4 and initiative 5 (which is pretty damn good). However the single attack is what kills them (but at the same time, they do not have frenzy and so cannot be redirected as easily). To make a proper hammer unit relies on expenditure in skaven brew as well as forcing your seer to take ruin (so that he can get death frenzy). Plague monks have a mountain of attacks, but suffer from being low strength and no armour (but they do have toughness 4.) both units are perfectly viable hammer units that both have weaknesses and strengths. Only through your own experience will you figure out which one works best for you.

Slaves

The bread and butter of every Skaven army. Every competitive army will MOST LIKELY include slaves. Slaves are cheap (like REALLY cheap), can be fielded in mass, and form critical tar-pitting units. For this reason slaves should always be fielded at around 40 models minimum. (20 man squads lose Strength in numbers to quickly and are prone to panic, which then could cause a mass rout in slaves) and there purpose is to tie up key enemy formations so that you can fight the battle were you want to fight it. It allows you to play points denial which is currently our best way of winning. Slaves should always have a musician for reforming. And slaves should ALWAYS be in a formation that is 5 wide and as many deep as possible. (this formation is referred to as "steadfast formation" or "Bus formation")

subpart: The "Fleeing Slave" Trick

an exception to the above rule is the fleeing slave trick (which can be done with any unit the does not have frenzy but is best done by slaves as they are cheap or rat darts (who are more difficult to rally)) the fleeing slave trick involves taking units of 20-30 naked slaves with musicians. Parking them right in front of your opponent and then, rather than holding, Flee as a charge reaction. Slaves do not explode unless broken in combat and will rally on an 8 suggesting they are not caught. this can severely slow down a unit that has 2 slave units in a "staggered" formation (one unit slightly behind the first) parked in front of them.

subpart: Shields and Spears

Clanrats and slaves both can take these. However spears should not be taken, an extra 5-10 strength 3 attacks is not going to tip the combat in your favor, on the other hand an extra 1-2 models that don’t die isn’t either. The point is not so much that parry saves are better. The point is that you’re never going to win combat anyway so points wasted on spears could be better spent elsewhere. Slaves with shields currently hold around the 50/50 mark. As shields give them both a 6+ armour and 6+ ward it is the better option against strength 3 attacks, however against anything strength 4 and above extra bodies is the way to go. Again, only through proper testing and experimenting can you decide what is best for you.

Night runners

Simply to many points for what they don’t do. They are more expensive than clanrats and can get ranged gear (but with no armour) they have problems because of their cost and being the same as clanrats for the most part. Getting a large group a tunnelling team is a fun (but very risky) way of making them competitive. However the VERY high risk reward is in my opinion too risky to take on a regular basis. Normally they should be left at home.

Giant rats

The best use for giant rats is the aptly named "rat dart" Rat darts are units of 5 rat and 1 packmaster that is used to stall deployment (so that you can see how your enemy deploys) and after wards as cheap re-directors, war machine hunters (or at least stallers) and march blockers (however futile they may be) Larger packs are not advised as they are basically in between slaves and clanrats in cost but are far worse than a clanrat and only moderately better than a slave.



Special


Rat Swarms

Melt away too quickly. Rat darts are cheaper and fill the same roles that swarms do and more. The only real exception is a unit of 2 used to cover a flank as they are unbreakable and against "non" hammer units they can normally hold for a turn or two.

Gutter Runners

Are highly skilled at one thing in particular, snipping warmachines and other key lone targets, units of 5-9 with poison and slings, optimally you will have 2 or 3 of these in any list that does not run a storm banner. Use the 2x shots on a war machine after scouting forward in the first turn. They are one of our best choices hands down.

Some reasons other than their excellent war machine hunting capabilities.

Counter charge - slip gutter runners behind enemy line in his flee path. When he flees, they'll flee over them for dangerous terrain tests. Then you can charge the fleeing unit with your gutter runners and they'll be almost always caught because ms + 2d6 is better than 2D6 alone. A lot of people don't see this coming when they declare a flee response from your hammer (like a furnace unit). Gutters in the backline are also useful for forcing units that are already fleeing to flee off of the table or out of the opposing general’s leadership bubble. 5, 6 & 9 all equally good at this. 9 being most durable and likely to be able to do this but also the most expensive.

Killing Lone characters, Monsters, Skirmishers, finishing units, and flyers - Gutter runners are exceptional at killing off small sized (model count wise) units because of the lack of durability. Nice easy points to pick up after warmachines are killed or if your opponent has none.

Rat Ogres

Are fairly ugly. A huge dump in points for a unit with no armour, T4 and low leadership (which is compounded with frenzy), while they do have a high strength value they suffer to much from their offsets. In addition do to games workshops incompetence they may not actually have any legal formations, so confer with your opponent before a game to make sure he’s ok with however you’re going to run them.

subpart: Skweel Gnawtooth

Skweel Gnawtooth is the only way to run rat ogres competitively. The problem is the 5+ regeneration (which is what you want) has only a 1/3 chance, making him a sub-optimal solution at best.

Plague Monks

Are the non-rare punch of most Skaven armies, combined with the furnace these guys provide a cheap effective way for dealing with many enemies. (They struggle against chaos but so do most armies in close combat) make them a good 30-40 strong and give them the plague banner. An alternative is to give them the banner of the under empire that will do well against low toughness and low armour models. Again the choice between these banners is best decided by your own determination by experimentation. I do suggest the plague banner however.

Plague Censor Bearers

They pack a great punch but are slow, tend to kill themselves, and cannot do anything unsupported. With a large unit they will hit, kill a lot, win combat, and then die next turn when their entire first round of combat bonuses wear off. They also cost a bucket load to field. the ONLY POSSIBLE WAY to field them competitively is in small units of 5 or in large units of more than 20, small units can be used as flankers instead of a doomwheel (for slightly less points) whereas larger units can actually generate enough combat resolution to win combat. In general I would leave them at home though as they are a lot of points and easy for your opponent to kill.

Warplock Jezzails

While great against heavy armour and high toughness models (things our army as a whole has problems with) they cost a small fortune in points to field. For the same cost as 5 jezzails you could buy a cannon which will hit more often, do more damage, and not run away. Simply put, while jezzails are good, other things are better and cheaper and also almost ALWAYS more efficient. However with the increase of monsters and monstrous cavalry they are becoming a more effective and more desirable choice.

Poisoned wind globadiers

Globes do well against high toughness, high armour targets (such as the dreaded steam tank) they can be used in a pinch as redirectors, but they have low leadership, are prone to panic (and cause mass panic) and they are VERY short ranged (a mighty 8" but effectively 4") while I personally do think globes can be played competitively I do not think that they should be considered a bread and butter unit by any means and should never be used by an inexperienced player. (Common sense is needed when determining if you are experienced). As with jezzails, the increase of monsters and monstrous cavalry is making them a much more desirable option.



Rare


Hell-Pit Abomination

The third and most powerful hammer. Hellpits are insanely difficult to kill and are a thorn for most opponents, random movement giving them all sorts of options (and also the ability to ram your own units so that they don’t have to move ahead like other teams random movement things) cannot be fled from, can flee (in interesting situations) stubborn 8, a waterfall of strength 6 hits and attacks will decimate infantry. Watch out for flaming banners, characters, fire magic, and other things with flaming. (Cannon balls are a no brainier)

Doomwheel

A less chosen rare, the doomwheel is a monster killer and charge support specialist. With the equivalent of 3 cannon balls hitting whatever is closest the doomwheel is equipped to ZAP almost any monster in a single turn. Doomwheels can also be used to support charge units alongside clanrats or slaves, generating decent combat res through its impacts can lead to Skaven winning combats which allows the doomwheel an easy overrun (3d6 inches) deep behind enemy lines. the downside is that an unsupported doomwheel will, like plague censors, most likely die or break in its second round of combat (or first if they are charged). To clarify, "less chosen" does not mean "less competitive" or even "considered less competitive" doomwheels are surprisingly powerful tools in the correct hands. That said they are far more difficult to learn to use and far more complex in strategy than a 'point and click' cannon. So while they are, imho, better than cannons in numerous ways, people simply go with the easier, simpler, and in general, more adaptable/all comer option. Once again, the increase of monsters and monstrous can is making doomwheels a very good option; in fact they are almost more preferable to a hellpit as they are far cheaper.

Warp lightning Cannon

By far the most favourite of Skaven rares. The cannon fills both an excellent troop mowing and monster killing role. While it is prone to misfire (like all cannons) ignoring all armour and dropping blast templates on infantry is great fun. They do have to be guarded against warmachine hunters however (unlike doomwheels) and also can be understrength for monster slaying. Still, a staple in most Skaven armies.

Plague claw catapult

While not the best of the Skaven rares. PCC can be devastating against low toughness armies, especially in combination with Wither. Against higher toughness armies they suffer quite a bit, and the most usefulness you see from them is the auto panic check, which in most cases is not a big deal.

NOTE: All units in the Skaven armybook are blessed in that they all can work and will work in lists. When I say something sucks it’s not because it actually sucks. It’s because somewhere else within the same book is an even better and more efficient way to do whatever that unit is doing, and a good tournament list is very efficient

Minigiant
07-01-2014, 16:57
Example Lists


The Skaven "Standard" List

The basic tried and true skaven list that dishes out the pain in every way in every phase. very "jack of all trades" style where it has no real weaknesses but no true focus.
LORD – Grey Seer: 265 Points
Dispel Scroll

LORD – Warlord: 228 Points
Warlitter, Shield, Dragon Helm, Sword of the Anti-Heroes, Talisman of Preservation, Trickster's Shard

HERO – Chieftain: 75 Points
Battle standard bearer, Charmed Shield

HERO – Warlock: 45 Points
Doomrocket

HERO – Plague Priest: 259 Points
Level 1, Plague Furnace, Flail, Ironcurse Icon

CORE – 40 Skaven Clanrats: 192 Points
Shields, Musician, Standard
CORE – 40 Skaven Clanrats: 192 Points
Shields, Musician, Standard

CORE – 40 Skaven Slaves: 82 Points
Musician
CORE – 40 Skaven Slaves: 82 Points
Musician

CORE – 27 Skaven Clanrats: 146 Points
Shields, Full command

CORE – 5 Giant Rats 1 Packmaster: 23 Points
CORE – 5 Giant Rats 1 Packmaster: 23 Points

CORE – 30 Plague Monks: 265 Points
Full command, Plague Banner

SPECIAL – 6 Gutter Runners: 106 Points
Poison, Slings
SPECIAL – 6 Gutter Runners: 106 Points
Poison, Slings

RARE – Hellpit Abomination: 235

RARE – Warp lightning cannon: 90
RARE – Warp lightning cannon: 90


The Skaven "Castle" List

The Skaven castle focuses on a "Point Denial" strategy. With a larger bubble, the units are able to stray further out. It is more focused on a defensive strategy.

LORD – Grey Seer: 465 Points
Earthing Rod, Screaming Bell

HERO – Chieftain: 122 Points
Battle standard bearer, Shield, Storm Banner

HERO – Warlock: 115 Points
level 1, warp energy condenser, Doom Rocket

CORE – 40 Skaven Clanrats: 270 Points
Shields, Full command, Warp Flame thrower

CORE – 50 Skaven Clanrats: 310 Points
Shields, Full command, Plague wind mortar

CORE – 50 Skaven Clanrats: 310 Points
Shields, Full command, Plague wind mortar

CORE – 50 Skaven Slaves: 127 Points
Musician, Shields
CORE – 50 Skaven Slaves: 127 Points
Musician, Shields

SPECIAL – 6 Poison Wind Globadiers: 60
SPECIAL – 6 Poison Wind Globadiers: 60

RARE – Doomwheel: 150
RARE – Doomwheel: 150

RARE – Hellpit Abomination: 235


The Skaven "Lawnmower" List

The Lawnmower is an offencive combat list centered around clan Pestilence. the entire army is either unbreakable or stubborn till the last man. Hits harder than a brick in close combat.

LORD – Skrolk: Points

HERO – Plague Priest: 254 Points
Level 1, Plague Furnace, Flail

HERO – Plague Priest: 254 Points
Level 1, Plague Furnace, Flail

CORE – 30 Plague Monks: 285 Points
Full command, Storm Banner

CORE – 30 Plague Monks: 235 Points
Full command

CORE – 53 Skaven Slaves: 135.5 Points
Musician, Shields

SPECIAL – 27 Plague Censor bearers: 432 Points
SPECIAL – 27 Plague Censor bearers: 432 Points


The Skaven "Bulldozer" List

The bulldozer is another combat oriented list. This time centered around regular clanrats and SV, utilizing buffs to make it's regular units more powerful.

LORD – Grey Seer: 265 Points
Dispel Scroll

LORD – Warlord: 228 Points
Warlitter, Shield, Dragon Helm, Sword of the Anti-Heroes, Talisman of Preservation, Trickster's Shard

HERO – Chieftain: 122 Points
Battle standard bearer, Shield, Storm Banner

HERO – Chieftain Tretch: 145 Points

HERO – Warlock: 65 Points
Skaven brew

CORE – 40 Stormvermin: 350 Points
Full command, Razor standard

CORE – 40 Skaven Clanrats: 192 Points
Shields, Musician, Standard

CORE – 40 Skaven Clanrats: 192 Points
Shields, Musician, Standard

CORE – 51 Skaven Slaves: 129.5 Points
Musician, Shields
CORE – 51 Skaven Slaves: 129.5 Points
Musician, Shields

CORE – 28 Skaven Clanrats: 146 Points
Shields, Full command

CORE – 5 Giant Rats 1 Packmaster: 23 Points
CORE – 5 Giant Rats 1 Packmaster: 23 Points

RARE – Hellpit Abomination: 235
RARE – Hellpit Abomination: 235


The Skaven "Brawler" List

Another combat list, this time with a hint of Moulder theme. it's a nice short list that is easy to put together and not difficult to use, but can still bring out some devastating results.

LORD – Throt the Unclean: Points

LORD – Grey Seer: 265 Points
Dispel Scroll

LORD – Warlord: 133 Points
Shield, Dragon Helm, Sword of the Anti-Heroes

HERO – Chieftain: 122 Points
Battle standard bearer, Shield, Storm Banner

CORE – 50 Skaven Slaves: 102 Points
Musician
CORE – 49 Skaven Slaves: 100 Points
Musician

CORE – 18 Rat Ogres 9 Packmasters: 932 Points
Skweel Gnawtooth, Master Moulder, Master Bred

CORE – 30 Skaven Clanrats: 155 Points
Shields, Full command

RARE – Hellpit Abomination: 235
RARE – Hellpit Abomination: 235


The Skaven "MOAR LIGHTNING!" List

A ranged oriented list reminiscent of the old SAD lists of 7th edition. Like templates? like explosions? like lightning? this is the list for you.

LORD – Ikit Claw: Points

HERO – Chieftain: 122 Points
Battle standard bearer, Shield, Warpstone Armour, Sword of might

HERO – Warlock: 145 Points
Level 2, Warp energy condenser, Dispel scroll

HERO – Warlock: 45 Points
Doom rocket

HERO – Warlock: 65 Points
Brass Orb

HERO – Warlock: 65 Points
Death Globe

HERO – Warlock: 15 Points
HERO – Warlock: 15 Points
HERO – Warlock: 15 Points

CORE – 30 Skaven Clanrats: 225 Points
Shields, Full command, Warp-fire thrower

CORE – 30 Skaven Clanrats: 225 Points
Shields, Full command, Warp-fire thrower

CORE – 51 Skaven Slaves: 129.5 Points
Musician, Shields
CORE – 51 Skaven Slaves: 129.5 Points
Musician, Shields

CORE – 50 Skaven Slaves: 127 Points
Musician, Shields

SPECIAL – 8 Poison Wind Globadiers: 185
Bombardier, Death globe, Poison wind mortar

SPECIAL – 3 Jezzails: 70
Sharpshooter
SPECIAL – 3 Jezzails: 70
Sharpshooter

RARE – Doomwheel: 150
RARE – Doomwheel: 150

RARE – Warp lightning cannon: 90
RARE – Warp lightning cannon: 90


The Skaven "Besieger" List

A Skaven list that takes an alternative look at the bell as an offensive weapon as compared to a leadership tool (or rather, "in addition to")

LORD – Grey Seer: 500 Points
Screaming Bell, Earthing rod, Fencers blades

HERO – Chieftain: 87 Points
Battle standard bearer, Shield, Banner of swiftness

HERO – Assassin: 170 Points
Blade of corruption, Other trickster shard

HERO – Assassin: 150 Points
Sword of anti-heroes

CORE – 50 Stormvermin: 425 Points
Full command, Storm Banner

CORE – 50 Skaven Slaves: 127 Points
Musician, Shields

CORE – 50 Skaven Slaves: 127 Points
Musician, Shields

CORE – 50 Skaven Slaves: 127 Points
Musician, Shields

CORE – 50 Skaven Slaves: 127 Points
Musician, Shields

SPECIAL – 5 Poison Wind Globadiers: 50
SPECIAL – 5 Poison Wind Globadiers: 50

RARE – Doomwheel: 150
RARE – Doomwheel: 150

RARE – Hellpit Abomination: 235

Minigiant
07-01-2014, 16:58
Hammers

How many hammers?

As Skaven we have to have at least 2 hammers (one for each flank and so that we can avoid a deathstar unit with at least one) in 2400-2500 games (smaller games you can get away with 1 because there will be no death star unit)

A hammer unit is something that can hold its own, as Skaven we don't have much choice. Hellpits can easily hold an infantry unit. Plague monks can be unbreakable and can hold a unit. Storm vermin, with support, can possibly even outfight some units (eliminating the need to be unbreakable)

It will come down to good decision making but these are the three hammer units (we don't have cavalry) rat ogres can be considered a hammer but they are a very expensive hammer that is as weak as a monk unit when shot. plague censors rely too much on breaking the opponent on the first turn and, while an ok support unit, should never be considered a hammer unit (unless fielded in unit sizes of 20 or more)

While the hell-pit is a no brainier, the other 2 units must be decent sizes, placing a 20 man unit of storm vermin on the table and calling it a hammer is heresy at best. storm vermin in particular have to be built a certain way to be a hammer unit (normally a way that facilitates some high risk factors) This is why many players opt to use a plague furnace with monks, the unit is fairly easy to use and there are not many mistakes you can make while building it into your list. It also runs a far lower risk factor than stormvermin. REMEMBER!!! One big advantage stormvermin have over plague monks is that they are not frenzied. So they cannot be redirected out of the game.


Anti-shooting devises

Storm banners/gutter runners and you!,

Every good Skaven army should include one or the other (or in some cases both). Gutter runners can wreck warmachines and allow you to advance (or stay put) unmolested. The storm banner can be a cheaper solution for an army that doesn't roll with too many shooting weapons. Either can work, but one is pretty standard. The reason for this is to shut down a gunline list (which can be fairly common especially for dwarves) or even just to shut down any shooting aspect of any army. for those who don't know what a gunline is, A gunline is basically a list that is almost entirely ranged, (normally this will be a dwarven or empire list, Skaven can do one to a degree and I suspect we will soon start seeing ogre gunlines appear) and normally run many cannons, mortars, catapults, and all manner of nasty template dropping weapons.

Storm banner will change your list considerably. Running it in your army (either on your BSB or a 10 man storm vermin unit) will shut down your opponents shooting, but it will also shut down yours. This means that your army should be built to facilitate the fact that your shooting will be highly limited. You’ll want to take very little shooting, you can’t take gutter runners (well you can but they can’t do their job properly). What little shooting you take should consist of things that don't use ballistic skill. This is one of the few cases doomwheels are better than cannons.

Gutter runners allow you to run a more cannon favouring list. They snipe your opponents weapons at no detriment to your own. after they're done the best you can do is snipe and suicide (or just run and hide, gutter runners are an expensive unit and saving those points would be a good idea) gutter runner units should be 5-6 man with poison and slings, and you should take at least 2 units (maybe 3)


Rare choices

Rare choices, which ones to take?

Skaven have some of the best rare choices in the game, they are all excellent units and each is individually good. however deciding on which ones to take will be based on how you play, how you want to play, and most importantly your determination through experimentation.

Hell-pits are almost a "Must take" option, the simply dish out so many strength 6 hits; they are one of the ONLY Skaven units that can go about unsupported. Taking one will, if nothing else, incite a fear factor where your opponent must DEAL with the hell-pit even if it itself preforms poorly. The ability to potentially come back from the dead is simply overkill on an already under-costed unit.

Cannons are the next "must take" item, unlike normally cannons, ours drop templates and therefor are insanely good at dropping infantry units, against monsters that lack of steady S 10 means we suffer a little bit but for less than 100 points the cannon is a spectacular choice. HOWEVER, the cannon must be protected against warmachine hunters, a key thing to remember when including them in your list. so while a cannon may be cheap, the points spent to insure it fires may not be.

Doomwheels fall in the middle ground. A doomwheel has the same random movement advantages and disadvantages as the hellpit, has the monster killing abilities of 3 cannons combined. They cannot flee however. By taking a doomwheel your taking a bet tha your opponent will field at least one monster, the doomwheels job is to kill that monster or die trying. Unlike cannons doomwheels do not have to be babysat against warmachine hunters; however they cannot win combats against ranked unit unsupported. Therefor if you plan to run doomwheels instead of hellpits you will have to compensate with the saved points.


Competitive fluffiness

Competitive fluffiness and Notes about ETC

ETC is the European team championship, they play using a special set of rules that basically cap all the power armies (including us) in an effort to "balance" the game. Having said that the ETC restrictions on Skaven are:
• Rat Swarm units, Giant Rat units, Warlock Engineers, max 3 each
• Skavenslaves, max 3 units and 120 models
• Warp-Lightning Cannon/Hellpit Abomination (max 1)/Screaming Bell, max 2
• Up to 2 units of Gutter Runners/Storm banner/2nd Doomwheel, max 2
• Doom Rocket (30)/Brass Orb/Power Scroll, max 1

Fluff armies are a great and can spawn some cool ideas and some amazing games, but they are not as competitive as normal lists simply because they handicap themselves. If you want to read an excellent article on writing fluff lists that are friendly and fun to play I highly suggest you check out this guide here (http://s6.zetaboards.com/The_UnderEmpire/topic/1171143/1/)
Simply put, Fluff is fun. But it doesn't win games.

Currently the most competitive fluff armies are themed around pestilence. While these armies can be competitive they are still by no means equal to the power a normal list puts out.


Psychology in list building

Psychological concepts that can be implemented in list building

SEIZE THE INITIATIVE!

Everything I say will tie back to this one pivotal rule.

What does that mean? It means you are forcing your opponent to react to your decisions rather than you reacting to his, it allows you to control the flow and pace of the game and with that you bring yourself ultimate victory.

Quote:


“Thus the expert in battle moves the enemy, and is not moved by him.”


But why? if I don’t react to what my enemy is doing, that deathstar is going to run me over! Wrong. Your allowing your opponent to control you, he’s already won if you’re fighting by his rules. you need to force him to react to you and not the other way around, so instead of sitting back and praying he doesn't get a high charge roll, you barrel your slaves into within an 1" of him (preferably at an angle where he will be forced to reform afterwards in order to get back into combat) and now he is forced to react to you.

Of course, control of the battlefield with a deathstar unit is a GREAT way to force reaction from your opponent.

Knowing your opponents plays a big deal as well, it’s worth going and reading the other armybooks and learning about each team. To take this to a further extent, you can try to know your opponents. This can be slightly more difficult in a larger group. Do they like offence or defense, close combat or long ranged, ext. if you know your opponents you can play to their weaknesses (overconfidence {me} aggressiveness, favouring aspects of combat over others, defensiveness so on)

To a degree that means you need to know yourself as well, know your own weaknesses (and don't deny they are there) so that your opponent cannot capitalize on them.

Be aggressive!!! again, this all comes back to forcing your opponent to react to you, if your opponent is defending, he is not attacking, while warhammer is a slow enough game you can’t set in the utter level of confusion you can in say a RTS game (where hitting from multiple directions with multiple forces can really demoralize and confuse your opponent making them go into a blind panic) you can still divide forces effectively.

Be confident (not overconfident like me mind you). "He who is victorious wins first and then goes to war."

Of course that doesn't mean be foolhardy. Control of the game is the real determination of who wins it.


Conclusion

Conclusion.
I’d like to think people will read this out to the very end but hey, I have low expectations. However this guide is not meant to force you to play a certain way or to curb your creativity. If you don't like what you've read here, simply don't abide by it. Your list is after all, your list. In fact this guide would not even exist if it weren't for people going out and experimenting with all these various elements over the years. At the end of the day, this is a guide nothing more.

Minigiant
10-01-2014, 17:56
How to: Rat dart

The general idea to have one packmaster, 6 rats (2 wide, 3 deep) and use them to rush out and:


redirect
hunt skirmishers
hunt warmachines
have a combat lined up for overrunning units.
deployment stallers


the main reasons (redirect and deployment stall) are fairly easy to use.

heres how to.

example

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4497/23531842.png

In this example, the enemy is close enough that next turn he will charge, to prevent this you run in front of your unit with the rat dart at a 45% angel to the enemy unit. Forcing them to charge the rats or waste time trying to get around them (or wait and shoot them)

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/1395/33524326.png

The enemy most likely will charge, you’re going to lose time no matter how you look at it so you might as well get the 23 points out of it.

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/2484/90266840.png

Note that should the enemy overruns, (which if frenzied he must) he is not going to hit your unit, because overrun happens in a straight line.

even if the unit is not frenzied, he must either overrun or choose to reform, so while he doesn't lose 2 or 3 turns like a frenzy unit would (1 turn overrunning the wrong way, 1 to turn around, 1 to charge again) he does waste a single turn.

Mozzamanx
21-01-2014, 16:38
Not sure why this has been sitting for 11 days but a fantastic write-up and thoroughly useful as an introductory piece.

Regarding the balance of Special/Rare/Core, you said that the Core section is often the best place for the army. If I were interested in making a Skryre theme, would it be reasonable to take a maximum Rare allocation, a nice mix of characters, and then perhaps ~35-40% on Stormvermin, Warpfire Throwers and Mortars?

boli
21-01-2014, 17:18
Nice write up - incidentally the two biggest thing about plagueclaw Catapults is the "no armour save allowed" rule - template on a block of inner circle knights - roll and oh look a hit; 1+/2+ save means nothing if you are not allowed to roll it. The second thing is large template - you can fit an awful number of models under that.

... but I will admit the Warp Lightning Cannon is generally more useful.

Minigiant
21-01-2014, 21:36
Not sure why this has been sitting for 11 days but a fantastic write-up and thoroughly useful as an introductory piece.

Regarding the balance of Special/Rare/Core, you said that the Core section is often the best place for the army. If I were interested in making a Skryre theme, would it be reasonable to take a maximum Rare allocation, a nice mix of characters, and then perhaps ~35-40% on Stormvermin, Warpfire Throwers and Mortars?

Perfectly reasonable, i always say Skaven can not be unfluffy. Anything can happen with them because of the all deals and back stabbing that occurs. With Skyre fluffy but as competitive as possible i would look at Cannons and Wheels for Rare; Slaves and Stormvermin for Core; mortars and throwers for weapon teams and then Warlocks and Grey Seers for Heroes

Mikael.K
23-01-2014, 21:09
Throw a fellblade lord in there and you pretty much have the standard skaven net-build right there. A friend of mine plays it, not the best of player, but he still does really good with it. 2 out of 2 wins so far. Skaven really have all the tools to handle anything that people throw at them.

Minigiant
27-01-2014, 21:00
Throw a fellblade lord in there and you pretty much have the standard skaven net-build right there. A friend of mine plays it, not the best of player, but he still does really good with it. 2 out of 2 wins so far. Skaven really have all the tools to handle anything that people throw at them.

I will agree that Skaven do have the tool to handle anything but with Skaven we pay for this potential with the most unreliable troops in the game. I would also point out that a Hellpit added to the list is also in the net build. Finally 2 out of 2 is nice but the figures are not significant enough for it to be note worthy. If he gets to like 20-0 then it will be time to take notice. If he is not a great player eventually people will start to notice holes in his game and exploit them

Minigiant
27-01-2014, 21:16
Warlock Engineer builds


The Warplock


HERO - Warlock Engineer: 115 points
Level 1 wizard, Warp energy condenser, doomrocket

Info:This warlock is designed to dish out the pain, he runs with the nastiest one shot item in the game, capable of flattening a unit with its incredibly accurate (most of the time) large strength 5 template. after he's deposed of his high flying toy he can go around tossing some easy cast d6+2 strength 5 hits, and that's nothing to sneeze about.

The Casterlock


HERO - Warlock Engineer: 120 points
Level 2 wizard, Warp energy condenser

Info:Taking a bit of a step back this lock is designed for the sole purpose of casting, he going to have 2 spells to throw (one of which should be warp lightning) which makes him a player on the table. Able to toss out warp lightning on a single dice with a 50/50 chance of having it go, he’s great at harassment on low dice phases..

The Nulllock


HERO - Warlock Engineer: 60 points
MR3 token

Info:An incredibly cheap way of making a unit have some hefty magic resistance. Good for getting a unit where you need it to be.

The Jezzailock


HERO - Warlock Engineer: 115 points
Level 1 wizard, Warp energy condenser, Warp musket, warlock optics

Info:This is a small unit/monster hunter. He's designed to be able to deal some hefty strength 5 hits that will clear off a damaged unit, kill trash units (rat dart type stuff) or severely injure monsters. (6 strength 5 hits a turn is no small feat)

The Toylocks


HERO - Warlock Engineer: 45/65/40 points
Doomrocket/brass orb/death globe.

Info:Very straight forwards, these guys are here for the sole purpose of dropping their cheap, but highly deadly, load onto an opponent. They almost always pay for themselves.

The Leaderlock


HERO - Warlock Engineer: 195 points
Warpstone armor, Level 2, warp energy condenser, warlock augmented weapon.

Info:If you absolutely want to use a warlock as your general (for fluff reasons) this is your man, he has the armour and attacks of a chieftain (almost) but the casting abilities of a level 2.

The Sorlock


HERO - Warlock Engineer: 145 points
Level 2, warp energy condenser,Ruby ring of Ruin

Info: Able to cast 3 spells, channel twice, and do it for some low cost values. This is the best castor a warlock can ever hope to become unless he sprouts horns

The Nakedlock


HERO - Warlock Engineer: 15 points

Info:Possibly the most infamous of the warlocks, Nakedlock is a capable fellow who tends to hide in units, biding his horrid time, and then popping out at the most opportune times to sacrifice himself as a re-directer. Similar to a rat dart, cheaper than a rat dart, and able to avoid getting shot until he is already in the way. Quite the underage hero.

Scrollocks


HERO - Warlock Engineer: 115 points
MR2, Lvl 1, Feedback scroll/Warpstorm scroll/Scroll of shielding

Info:
1: Despite the normal warplightning spell he also has the feedback scroll to damage the opponent his wizards
2 :Simpel combined with Warplightning and his warpstorm scroll he is ideal to kill small flying units / chars and other small chav units
3: With his MR he can protect his own unit while with the scroll of shielding he can boost it to a 2+ Ward for his one or a 4+ ward on another unit. My favourite use of this is the scroll of shielding on an abomb with spikes when a 3D6 fireball is being thrown it's way.

stonethecrow01
27-01-2014, 23:55
Great thread. Super helpful for a developing Skaven player like myself :)

Ograr
31-01-2014, 12:13
Great list, read it all the way to the end.

One thing about Jezzails;
While they're certainly overcosted, having a squad of six of them can unnerve many an opponent, if he has large creatures. Roll semi-well and the opponent will have a severely wounded dragon before he even gets near your own army. Likewise, they're also (percieved) deadly to heavily armoured units, capable of droping half a dozen knights before the first round's over.
Deploy them early and there's a fair chance your opponent's big monsters/tin cans will stay well clear of that corner of the battlefield, despite the realistic outcome of a 6 man Jezzail volley being only 1-2 wounds. In my experience, most opponents underestimate the WLC (it'll blow up/shoot poorly/shoot your own men) but everyone fears a squad of snipers.

Minigiant
31-01-2014, 20:06
I thought i would share this great Skaven channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/SkavenInAZ/featured). If your really interested in learning Skaven to beat or to play with, SkaveninAZ s channel is great for that

Reiko321
01-02-2014, 21:08
Did you mean "skaveninaz" ?

Minigiant
01-02-2014, 21:11
Did you mean "skaveninaz" ?

SSh no one is the wiser ;-)

SkavenInAZ
03-02-2014, 23:50
I'll never tell! =)

Thanks for the shoutout, Mini! I appreciate it. I'm doing a game or two a week and posting them in the Battle Reports section here and elsewhere. Link in the sig. If you get a chance, swing on by my channel.

Thanks again!

SkaveinInAZ

Mathusala0
08-12-2014, 16:44
*cough*

I'd like to compliment you on this incredibly long yet very familiar write up of a...

oh right.
http://s6.zetaboards.com/The_UnderEmpire/topic/8775420/1/

I love seeing my work shared ;)

you also missed a treasure trove of guides for all manner of things http://s6.zetaboards.com/The_UnderEmpire/topic/8803793/1/

Imperator64
08-12-2014, 21:01
Yeah cheers mate. Your guide was so good it made everyone at my club hate me. I also won almost every game I played even after ten years away from warhammer. Those two facts may be related.

Captain Idaho
09-12-2014, 22:45
Enjoyed reading this. A mate of mine is a Skaven player and we're finding the learning curve surprising. I'd like to also say I actually did read it all start to finish ;)

English 2000
10-12-2014, 20:43
*cough*

I'd like to compliment you on this incredibly long yet very familiar write up of a...

oh right.
http://s6.zetaboards.com/The_UnderEmpire/topic/8775420/1/

I love seeing my work shared ;)

you also missed a treasure trove of guides for all manner of things http://s6.zetaboards.com/The_UnderEmpire/topic/8803793/1/
A long dead thread resurrected to out someone who copied a 3 year old thread a year ago....

Truly the End Times are upon us. Everyone is a Necromancer! [emoji33]

Headsplitta
10-08-2015, 03:37
WOW! This thread is perfect for the lowly slave that I am at the moment!! I am going for a Clan Skryre army with Ikit Claw leading the way. Do you guys, have any thougts on Special caracters? I know that most are always over priced, but do you think Skaven ones are woth it?

English 2000
11-08-2015, 17:46
Necromancers! Necromancers are everywhere I tell you! Not even the End Times could stop them. Nothing stays dead these days.

Ograr
12-08-2015, 21:19
WOW! This thread is perfect for the lowly slave that I am at the moment!! I am going for a Clan Skryre army with Ikit Claw leading the way. Do you guys, have any thougts on Special caracters? I know that most are always over priced, but do you think Skaven ones are woth it?
Queek Headtaker is decent. He ignores armour saves, got a high initiative and weaponskill and enough armour to last a fair bit. Throw him into chaos warriors or dwarfs and he can rack up a good killcount, especially if the Stormvermin unit he's in are upgraded to their S5, WS5, I5 selves.

Meanwhile Ikit Claw, while superawesome in concept and model, only has his high Str going for him, but very few attacks, meaning he likely won't do too much damage. He's a fair bit more expensive than a Grey Seer, but doesn't add as much spellcasting power to the table, while not being superuseful in melee either. Throw a Death Frenzy on the unit he's in and you'll do better.

Thanquol's new model/rules are better than his old ones, it makes him pretty damn powerful. However, he's also very expensive, and with only a 6+ AS and 4+ Wardsave to defend himself while being a single large model, he'll take a fair bit of fire. My advice would be to use the firethrowers and blast into melee when you can, staying far away from the fighting.

Deathmaster Sniktch looks very appealing, high initiative, multiple wounds, etc. However, he's expensive to the point where any character he can reliably kill is either a wizard (who are usually protected by not being anywhere near the action) or a character worth far fewer points than him, making him a less than stellar option.

Overall, the named characters could all do with a serious pointcost reduction to make them viable, but they *are* all fun to play. I wouldn't recommend them for serious play, but if you're having a game among friends, go nuts.

Headsplitta
13-08-2015, 03:49
Thank you for the summary! I might change my army setting a bit... I will defenitely try Queek and his SV. If I can death frenzy them, they will be brutal!

Headsplitta
15-09-2015, 15:16
Quote:
subpart: Warlord Mounts

Warlords have access to three mounts, a warlitter, Rat ogre bonebreaker, or a great pox rat. These mounts are great ways to increase your warlord’s effectiveness but run some risks; this is the order from best to worst in terms of ability and compatibility.

War-litter

Gives +1 armour, grants a look out sir when in infantry, and basically gives him 4 stormvermin attacks. This is by far the best mount and in my opinion the ONLY true mount for warlords.

Rat Ogre Bonebreaker

While a good option (5 S5 attacks is nothing to sneeze at, not to mention an extra wound), the ogre runs some great risks, and he exposes your warlord to cannonballs and also normal shooting to some degree. a good mount for a warlord who carries the fellblade as it will help increase his already considerable damage output.

Great pox rat

You lose lookout sir, don't gain much in way of attacks (or movement) if your going to risk it without line of sight than go big and take a bone breaker.


As a Rat ogre Bonebreaker is a monstrous mount, you gain +1T right?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Rat Ogres

Are fairly ugly. A huge dump in points for a unit with no armour, T4 and low leadership (which is compounded with frenzy), while they do have a high strength value they suffer to much from their offsets. In addition do to games workshops incompetence they may not actually have any legal formations, so confer with your opponent before a game to make sure he’s ok with however you’re going to run them.

As they are mounstrous infantry, 3 models count as a rank and 6 is a horde. Usually a packmaster is always on the rear rank. Stupid decision is to have the master moulder and Skweel to go in the first rank as they are champions...

Am I missing something?