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Scammel
10-01-2014, 17:15
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3720191a_Warriors_Code_2014_V1.4.pdf

Chaos Dwarfs are now firmly back in the fold and a bunch of cool monsters are available for loads of armies.

Inb4 Grimhorn Rhinoxen destroy everything ever.

logan054
10-01-2014, 17:17
You've just made my day :D

IcedCrow
10-01-2014, 18:08
Long long long time coming. This final bastion of "forge world is not legal or official because GW events don't allow it" has been toppled.

Awesome news.

Spiney Norman
10-01-2014, 18:27
Awesome stuff if you go to these tournements, presumably this excludes experimental stuff like the River troll Hag giant and the squig gobba?

Still it won't affect me one bit, I don't do tournements as a general rule

Voss
10-01-2014, 18:35
Long long long time coming. This final bastion of "forge world is not legal or official because GW events don't allow it" has been toppled.

I'm starting to want money for every time someone says that. Because it has been said a lot over the last five years.

IcedCrow
10-01-2014, 18:37
Well at least until they find a new excuse. The Warrior's Code excuse was the current excuse why "FW isn't legal or allowed"

logan054
10-01-2014, 18:46
Awesome stuff, presumably this excludes experimental stuff like the River troll Hag giant and the squig gobba?

Nope, doesn't seem to exclude the great chaos host rules or any of the items in the monster arcanum book :D

snyggejygge
10-01-2014, 19:32
We've already used a fair few as rare choices outside Storm of Magic games, but which monsters in the Arcanum can be taken without a scroll of binding then?

logan054
10-01-2014, 19:40
All of them Syngg

Lord Dan
10-01-2014, 19:55
presumably this excludes experimental stuff like the River troll Hag giant and the squig gobba?

Apparently, on the contrary:

"For Warhammer Events

•A Warhammer Armies: Book
•A Warhammer Forge publication (including
digital updates)
•Warhammer Forge Experimental Rules
•Scrolls of Battle
•Scrolls of Binding and Sorcerous Pacts from the
Storm of Magic publication"

Emphasis mine.

Voss
10-01-2014, 20:05
Well at least until they find a new excuse. The Warrior's Code excuse was the current excuse why "FW isn't legal or allowed"

Really? I'd never even heard of it before (which isn't all that surprising, since it has no impact here across the pond). But people were saying 'this means FW is legal' when they dropped the 'consult with your opponent' line from various books, and that didn't have any traction either (despite being similarly heralded as the end of 'no FW')

IcedCrow
10-01-2014, 20:10
Really? I'd never even heard of it before (which isn't all that surprising, since it has no impact here across the pond). But people were saying 'this means FW is legal' when they dropped the 'consult with your opponent' line from various books, and that didn't have any traction either (despite being similarly heralded as the end of 'no FW')

Dig up the last "FW is official" thread and hit the middle to end of it. You will see the Warriors Code quoted often as why FW is not legal or official, most notably by a poster named Gungo.

logan054
10-01-2014, 20:16
Dig up the last "FW is official" thread and hit the middle to end of it. You will see the Warriors Code quoted often as why FW is not legal or official, most notably by a poster named Gungo.

Well if anyone says it isn't you can show them this and give them the finger. I love FW models and I now have a reason to get some skin wolves :D

IcedCrow
10-01-2014, 20:20
Right, now the Warriors Code excuse just got flushed. Now it simply comes down to having to just deal with the truth of the matter. That being someone saying "I don't like FW to be used because I don't like it".

I've been using FW for a very long time, it makes the experience a lot more diverse and that's what holds my attention.

ihavetoomuchminis
10-01-2014, 20:24
First time i hear about that warrior's code. Interesting to see that it is quite restrictive on proxies, unit fillers and conversions.....things most of the pro-FW people i know like to use....

logan054
10-01-2014, 20:28
I think part of the issue is many people will use pick up games to fine tune lists for throne of skulls/tournaments, as such, testing your army against FW models would be pointless as it isn't something you would likely encounter. Now the last barrier has been removed and people will have to accept that will have to play against more FW models at tournaments and need to figure out how to counter them.

IcedCrow
10-01-2014, 20:38
I think part of the issue is many people will use pick up games to fine tune lists for throne of skulls/tournaments, as such, testing your army against FW models would be pointless as it isn't something you would likely encounter. Now the last barrier has been removed and people will have to accept that will have to play against more FW models at tournaments and need to figure out how to counter them.

Right on target that is it exactly. Or at least that is what I have encountered and the rational people that at least explain their prejudice against FW have said as much. Most have even said they don't mind FW in general but that they don't want to waste their time playing pick up games against things that aren't helping them prep for their next tournament.

Lucifig
10-01-2014, 20:45
On an unrelated note, this was the first time I've read the Warrior's Code and couldn't help but chuckle. This part:

12. You embrace the Most Important Rule; play
in the spirit of the game and do not get bogged
down in the details of the rules.

I love how they don't expect the players to necessarily play by the rules, but don't even think about bringing a flying demon prince that doesn't have wings! Those Venoms better be covered in Wyches! Don't even attempt to use that Chaos Space Marine as a normal Space Marine.

Lordcypress
10-01-2014, 20:47
The whole topic really only matters if you are playing in Games Workshop run events. Which is few and far between. All the major tournaments I attend in British Columbia Canada are rogue trader events with their own rules and restrictions. The whole Warriors Code doesn't mean anything to tournament organizers.

logan054
10-01-2014, 20:47
It will be interesting to see if this has an effect on indie tournaments, would be cool if others started allow warhammer forge stuff as specials or rares rather than the odd one that allows chaos dwarfs.


The whole topic really only matters if you are playing in Games Workshop run events. Which is few and far between. All the major tournaments I attend in British Columbia Canada are rogue trader events with their own rules and restrictions. The whole Warriors Code doesn't mean anything to tournament organizers.

It's a justification to say something isn't balanced and such shouldn't be allowed, I've seen enough posts on here which are anti-FW which have said as much.

Scammel
10-01-2014, 20:53
I love how they don't expect the players to necessarily play by the rules, but don't even think about bringing a flying demon prince that doesn't have wings! Those Venoms better be covered in Wyches! Don't even attempt to use that Chaos Space Marine as a normal Space Marine.

I'd wager that they aren't actually that draconic in practice, I have a feeling that they made the list as encompassing as possible to make quite sure that the actual silly stuff ('No, that pile of weapons and a barrel is not a unit filler' and 'No, those Goblins with GS cloaks aren't Blackshields') is firmly kept away.

Tae
10-01-2014, 23:18
I'd wager that they aren't actually that draconic in practice, I have a feeling that they made the list as encompassing as possible to make quite sure that the actual silly stuff ('No, that pile of weapons and a barrel is not a unit filler' and 'No, those Goblins with GS cloaks aren't Blackshields') is firmly kept away.

Indeed. I emailed them prior to buying my ticket to ToS in Feb asking about using my FW Colossal Squig as a Giant and they said its fine, they just don't want people going "that gene stealer is a space marine" (genuine quote from the reply I got).

Spiney Norman
11-01-2014, 00:38
I'd wager that they aren't actually that draconic in practice, I have a feeling that they made the list as encompassing as possible to make quite sure that the actual silly stuff ('No, that pile of weapons and a barrel is not a unit filler' and 'No, those Goblins with GS cloaks aren't Blackshields') is firmly kept away.

I dunno, some of the specific examples seem a little excessive, I personally don't like the 'hangers on' on my dark Eldar raider or venoms because I think they just look stupid (and having Wyches hanging off a venom that doesn't contain Wyches seems a bit counter-intuitive to me), I've even used some of the parts for conversions of other models so its not like I could get my DE army up to their 'acceptable standard'.

It also sounds like my mangler squig conversion that I did before the current model was released wouldn't pass muster either (gobbla chained to the GCS mount), and how dare you even think about converting a meltagun to go on the front of a space marine bike handle-bars instead of being held by its rider. These things serve to stifle creativity and make some of the most lovingly converted models I have seen illegal.

The lotr Mumak part actually made me laugh, you actually pay separate points for the 'crew' and are under no obligation to deploy them in the howdah whether you choose to buy them or not...

forseer of fates
11-01-2014, 04:04
While this is great for monster lovers and chaos dwarf players, this will bring some abuse, like giving dwarfs access to wizards, toad dragon is fairly cheap and quite hard to kill and giving all armies access to the frost phoenix's, well anyone who has played vs them knows how crazy they are.

IcedCrow
11-01-2014, 04:26
The game is already open to abuse in the hands of certain individuals. Dont play them :-)

Glimfeather
11-01-2014, 06:14
While this is great for monster lovers and chaos dwarf players, this will bring some abuse, like giving dwarfs access to wizards, toad dragon is fairly cheap and quite hard to kill and giving all armies access to the frost phoenix's, well anyone who has played vs them knows how crazy they are.

Yeah, but won't other players now be able to take dwarf laser guided, no miss, wipe a monster off the board in one shot cannons?

forseer of fates
11-01-2014, 07:04
Nope, unless some appear in a battle scroll

logan054
11-01-2014, 10:45
Yeah, but won't other players now be able to take dwarf laser guided, no miss, wipe a monster off the board in one shot cannons?

Just the daemon ones, I don't see what all the moaning is about, they simply use the ally rules in the book for 2v2 games, it's just that one person gets to use the models, you also need to spend a fair few points to even get the models, you going to need a character + a core unit before you can even take the cannon, those are points that are coming out of the special choices and your will also have to to the reign of chaos rules, that won't be nice when they can't use your generals leadership or use your BSB, they will need a separate general.

Spider-pope
11-01-2014, 10:52
While this is great for monster lovers and chaos dwarf players, this will bring some abuse, like giving dwarfs access to wizards, toad dragon is fairly cheap and quite hard to kill and giving all armies access to the frost phoenix's, well anyone who has played vs them knows how crazy they are.

The rules can be abused even if you stick to Army book only units. Heck they can probably be abused if you stick to 'Contents of Island of Blood Only'. The poor behavior of some, is no reason to restrict the majority.

I'm hoping this will see more Chaos Dwarf armies appearing on the tabletop. They were my first army back in the days of bucket hats, so i have a fondness for them now and would love to face off against them more often.

Spiney Norman
11-01-2014, 12:22
While this is great for monster lovers and chaos dwarf players, this will bring some abuse, like giving dwarfs access to wizards, toad dragon is fairly cheap and quite hard to kill and giving all armies access to the frost phoenix's, well anyone who has played vs them knows how crazy they are.

Forgive my ignorance, but which FW book exactly allows a dwarf army to take a wizard? I thought most of the FW books (except for Monsrous arcana) were basically stand alone lists, not a list of things you could shoe-horn into any army you like.

Also I had no idea the frost Phoenix was in any of the FW books (is it Monstrous arcana, I don't own the book but it seems a little odd since it is a GW model), but one has to speculate that it is possible more even-handed to let everyone take the frost Phoenix than only let one army take it...

And in any case, tournements are all about assembling the most effective, most competitive, and yes, the most abusive list you can design/afford/paint because tournements are all about winning. But if you are the kind of person that goes to a Tournement you know, love and accept that because that is how you like to play.

underscore
11-01-2014, 12:32
There's wizards in the Storm of Magic scrolls - Greater Daemons, Truthsayers etc.

Spiney Norman
11-01-2014, 12:54
There's wizards in the Storm of Magic scrolls - Greater Daemons, Truthsayers etc.

I don't think they'd be that much of a problem, they're almost all overpriced for what you get and they're not allowed to join units either so they'd be pretty hard to use in a game.

A slightly bigger problem that I can see is pretty much anyone who wants to can wedge in a skull cannon through the sorcerous pact mechanic.

The frost Phoenix isn't in the SoM book though?

logan054
11-01-2014, 13:06
The frostie is in the scrolls binding digital thing I believe, I don't see skullcannons being that much of a issue as you going to need a character, a core unit just to use it, ontop of that you have the joys of the reign of chaos table which might well kill that cannon before it does anything.

underscore
11-01-2014, 13:27
To be honest the Reign of Chaos table is probably more of a bonus than a curse with a small allied contingent - the negative effects are only going to affect a small number of your units but will still stand a chance at dishing out some damage to the whole of your opponent's army.

For the record, looks like the cheapest single Skull Cannon you could take would be alongside a unit of Daemonettes with a naked Herald at 335 points total. You could take two for 580 (with two units of Nettes).

herohammer
11-01-2014, 22:56
I just thought of something. By RAW you can't use scrolls of binding monsters and units in non-SoM games since scrolls are chosen out of a special allowance of points in addition to your army points which you get for a SoM game. Mythic artifacts, pacts, and binding scrolls all come out of this allowance and nowhere else.

As much as I would like to see people use scrolls etc in regular games there is no explanation from GW on how that would actually work. Where in the force org % would pacts, scrolls, and mythic artifacts come out of?

EDIT- I missed the * telling you take them out of special points. Ok that makes sense, so pacts and scrolls out of special and no mythic artifacts. One Unsolved question is still how many of a unit you can take if it exists as both a scroll and a unit choice in your book in a different slot. I would assume up to the cap in each slot ( like vc where hero wraiths do not count towards the number of units of rare wraiths that you can take). 5 frosty he with a star dragon lord anyone?

Spiney Norman
11-01-2014, 23:05
I just thought of something. By RAW you can't use scrolls of binding monsters and units in non-SoM games since scrolls are chosen out of a special allowance of points in addition to your army points which you get for a SoM game. Mythic artifacts, pacts, and binding scrolls all come out of this allowance and nowhere else.

As much as I would like to see people use scrolls etc in regular games there is no explanation from GW on how that would actually work. Where in the force org % would pacts, scrolls, and mythic artifacts come out of?

EDIT- I missed the * telling you take them out of special points. Ok that makes sense, so pacts and scrolls out of special and no mythic artifacts. One Unsolved question is still how many of a unit you can take if it exists as both a scroll and a unit choice in your book in a different slot. I would assume up to the cap in each slot ( like vc where hero wraiths do not count towards the number of units of rare wraiths that you can take). 5 frosty he with a star dragon lord anyone?

You need to read the rules pack, in warhammer throne of skulls you can take a scroll of binding or sorcerous pact as part of your normal army, the points come from your special section.

I actually might like to take an unridden carnosaur from special as part of my Lizardmen army, not that I will be going to ToS mind you.

logan054
11-01-2014, 23:27
EDIT- I missed the * telling you take them out of special points. Ok that makes sense, so pacts and scrolls out of special and no mythic artifacts. One Unsolved question is still how many of a unit you can take if it exists as both a scroll and a unit choice in your book in a different slot. I would assume up to the cap in each slot ( like vc where hero wraiths do not count towards the number of units of rare wraiths that you can take). 5 frosty he with a star dragon lord anyone?

As they come from your special I would assume the normal limits apply, guess I will be taking a slaanesh BSB on steed of slaanesh with Sacrificial banner against you and running you monsters around the board like headless chickens ;)

Spiney Norman
11-01-2014, 23:32
As they come from your special I would assume the normal limits apply, guess I will be taking a slaanesh BSB on steed of slaanesh with Sacrificial banner against you and running you monsters around the board like headless chickens ;)

I can see it now, an anointed on a Frostie, Caradryan on a Frostie, 3 special frosties taken through scrolls of binding and two rare frosties. 7 Frostie list!!!

What size game would you need to actually be able to do that?

logan054
11-01-2014, 23:36
Probably do that at 2k, I'm sticking with unit with sacrificial banner which forces your monster to try the unit while within 24" while I pepper your with my double skullcannons in my great chaos host list ;)

besides warpdragons for the win ;)

mpepperdine
12-01-2014, 03:09
I think I'll stick a Dread Maw in my Warriors list. Looks fun to use, but a bit over costed, so hopefully it'll tone-down the WoC army s bit.
O&G idol (especially great idol!) looks fun too.

forseer of fates
12-01-2014, 03:16
Don't think your allowed the magic items, just the scrolls. Mean really its already a weee bit crazy.

Lord Dan
12-01-2014, 04:41
I can see it now, an anointed on a Frostie, Caradryan on a Frostie, 3 special frosties taken through scrolls of binding and two rare frosties. 7 Frostie list!!!

What size game would you need to actually be able to do that?

Disturbingly, if you ditch Caradryan and his Flamespyre from the list, you could take:

Anointed, Frostheart
7 x 5 Ellyrian Reavers w/ Bows
3 x Frostheart (Scrolls)
2 x Frostheart

Perfectly legal at 2500 points, and you actually have about 200 points to spare.

logan054
12-01-2014, 08:25
Don't think your allowed the magic items, just the scrolls. Mean really its already a weee bit crazy.

Why? you may use a warhammer forge publication, monsters arcanum is a warhammer publication, the items only require that scrolls of binding are in use.

Spiney Norman
12-01-2014, 10:13
Why? you may use a warhammer forge publication, monsters arcanum is a warhammer publication, the items only require that scrolls of binding are in use.

Rubbish, the Tournement pack gives you special dispensation to use scrolls of binding and sorcerous pacts ONLY from your special allowance, and even if you wanted to argue the magic items, even lord characters have 100 pts to spend on items, and virtually all of the the SoM items are over that (and none of them are worth their cost).

herohammer
12-01-2014, 11:19
Actually I was wrong, only 2 of any scroll of binding can be taken in a standard army not 3. So HE therefore could take 4 riderless Phoenix.

Having gone through all of the units in the MA, Tamerlane, and SoM, most of them are pretty soft and fluffy. The serious options from a tournament play perspective that emerge from allowing these books in tourneys are fewer than you would think. I would say to start.

Tamurkhan-
Chaos war mammoth ( with shrine I think)
Great host of chaos rules (I am unsure if these are meant to be allowed for regular tournament type events as the book itself advises that they recommend using the rules for grand army scale games. Pretty cheesy if you run a woc DP but you really do auto lose if your opponent can kill him turn 1 or 2)
none of the empire stuff is very impressive
chaos dwarves were already allowed in most tournaments and are a pretty good army.
The carmine dragons and toad dragon are good.
Continuing in the next post

herohammer
12-01-2014, 11:32
Continuing from my last post.

The tournament quality "hard" units from SoM are

Harpies
Great eagles
2 lion war lion units
Trolls (although max unit size of 10 hurts then compared to O and G or chaos trolls)
War mammoth (although no shrine here)
Exalted greater demons ( but they pale in comparison to...)
Emperor dragons. The silly chaff units like eagles and sabretusks aside, I think these are one of the best SoM units you could take. They let you get a lvl4 on life or death in any army, outside of your lords allowance, and it comes with a stat line that poops on nurgle daemon princes, ogre tyrants or abything else in the game.
The weaker dragons and chaos dragons are pretty good also coming out of specials.
Giant spines chaos beast
Sabretusks (amazingly they are actually better than in the ok book as they can use general's ld and can be upgraded to have ambush, scout, or kb)
Zoat
Any pact could be a good choice. Daemons give you access to a skill cannon with a herald of tz, and min horror unit, vc can net you a black night bus or terrorgheist, tk get you a casket or a hierotitan without having to run much other TK stuff ;)

Roshan
12-01-2014, 11:34
Rubbish, the Tournement pack gives you special dispensation to use scrolls of binding and sorcerous pacts ONLY from your special allowance, and even if you wanted to argue the magic items, even lord characters have 100 pts to spend on items, and virtually all of the the SoM items are over that (and none of them are worth their cost).

Agreed, but typical of GW to once again change a rules pack without much thought for what it does to the already fragile balance....as forseer of fates has said, it gives dwarfs access to a phase they had no real reason to be in, for 245 points they now have a lvl 3 wizard and +4 to dispel in a Truthsayer, access to lore of beasts or Life, Im going to try it, because if it works, it gives dwarfs a good shooting phase, good anti magic, and now a semi decent magic phase.

herohammer
12-01-2014, 12:05
Continued,

Finishing with monstrous arcanum,

Faithless charm
Sacrificial banner (keeps the silliness in check from monster spamming using binding scrolls and also kicks net list woc in the teeth.)

As far as monsters and the other scrolls go many of them vary from dodgy lord mount level to "Jesus Christ this is as bad as the beast men rare section or maybe worse!" There are some good ones though including one option that is really really good.

The k'daii destroyer. Yeah, you can take it in special, not only that but the destroyer in MA has upgrade options. If you are willing to up its cost by around a third you can get a destroyer that flies and is able to thunderstomp anything. This pretty much removes 2 of the destroyers only weaknesses as it can no longer be redirected and forced to overrun to the moon and it is a lot harder for a tag team of enemy monsters or a monstrous infantry unit to kill if it is thunder stomping them. It is still deathly allergic to demon princes with dragonbane gems, swarms of skinks, and empire armies with 4 cannons.

The basilisk does have really good abilities but it is ungodly expensive in points and super vulnerable to cannons since it pays over 50pts per wound and comes with no regen or ward. If you can deal with that though it can grind the hell out of ****** units or randomly luck assassinate the enemy general.
The smaller necrofex colossus seems pretty good, the big one looks like overkill.
Exalted vermin lord is pretty good.
Fimir warriors ( I really like these guys)
Merwyrms
Dread saurian (the last 2 are iffy)
Idol of gork or mork
Arcane Phoenix (I like the silly thing where it counts as a bsb if you are HE) btw, where is the scroll for the frosty Phoenix? A white dwarf? This is the only Phoenix in MA.
The other 2 dragons in MA are pretty good.

Overall tamurkhan has 2 pretty good armies in it (CD and chaos big horde thingy) and a couple other pretty good units. SoM has a bunch of really good chaff units and a couple good crazy high point cost super monsters. MA has k'daii destroyers and...a bunch of stuff that is not a k'daii destroyer.

Spiney Norman
12-01-2014, 13:08
Part of me actually likes the idea of being able to bring a dragon or carnosaur as a SoB from your special choices, it gives you access to something that you otherwise wouldn't be able to bring other than in really large games (as a lord mount) and combine it with a L4 wizard, which is pretty nifty.

And lets not pretend that a Truthsayer or dark emissary is going to break dwarfs, bound characters cannot join units, so either of them will most likely disappear in the first magic/shooting phase. They are really only viable as fulcrum holders in games of SoM.

logan054
12-01-2014, 15:06
Rubbish, the Tournement pack gives you special dispensation to use scrolls of binding and sorcerous pacts ONLY from your special allowance, and even if you wanted to argue the magic items, even lord characters have 100 pts to spend on items, and virtually all of the the SoM items are over that (and none of them are worth their cost).

Incorrect, their pack allows the use of forge world products which includes experimental rules, chaos dwarfs list and the great chaos host. Those items are not for storm of magic games and are simply standard magic items. They are for any game that uses scrolls of binding, I believe the book has such missions. As the book is a forge world product, it can be used as can the standard magic items that come out of the characters magic items allowance.

Mozzamanx
12-01-2014, 15:42
While everyone is leaping at the chance to spam Frosthearts, don't overlook the wonderful abilities of the Merwyrm and Arcane Phoenix in conjunction. An Elven monster-mash list is now quite a spectacle.

Alternatively:
BSB, Sorceress and obligatory 25% Core requirement
4 Kharibdyss (2 Bound)
4 Hydras (2 Bound)

For a lovely sight at 2400pts.

Despite the obvious potential for abuse, I like the potential for the flagging armies. O&G can have unridden Wyverns as Special, Elves get flights of Dragons and Empire can take Cannon-Dragons to complement their Cannon-Chariots and Great Cannons. :)

Spiney Norman
12-01-2014, 16:37
Incorrect, their pack allows the use of forge world products which includes experimental rules, chaos dwarfs list and the great chaos host. Those items are not for storm of magic games and are simply standard magic items. They are for any game that uses scrolls of binding, I believe the book has such missions. As the book is a forge world product, it can be used as can the standard magic items that come out of the characters magic items allowance.

Yeah, sorry I thought you were talking about the uber items in the SoM book, carry on.

logan054
12-01-2014, 16:55
Yeah, sorry I thought you were talking about the uber items in the SoM book, carry on.

Lol no, don't be soft!

Kingrick
12-01-2014, 17:08
Does anyone else think taking these scrolls as a special choice was a poor idea? wouldn't rare have been a much better balance?

Kingrick
12-01-2014, 17:27
Ok so i just started reading this and I'm looking for a little help in clarifying the rules....

so say I play 2000 pts, and want to use a scroll of binding. In 2000pts I would have 1000pts to spend on specials, but in the SoM it says you can spend 25% on Scrolls of binding, so that would be 500pts. Does the 25% still remain a rule? I'm hoping it does because it would feel a little more balanced that way!

logan054
13-01-2014, 19:53
When you take a scroll of binding then they are simply a special choice, as such they use the normal rules for special. Keep in mind that monsters arcanum has anti monster items for use in normal games. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more dwarf and empire armies to take advantage of all the monsters.

teafloy_the_damned
14-01-2014, 06:41
So, how does it all work. I mean can any army take anything

Can my dwarf list have an Idol of Gork running around?
Can high elves work around the demonic pact thing and take a bloodthirster?

Am i the only person who thinks (except for allowing Chaos dwarfs) this is a terrible idea which wipes out 20 years of fluff?

Lord Dan
14-01-2014, 07:01
So, how does it all work. I mean can any army take anything

Can my dwarf list have an Idol of Gork running around?
Can high elves work around the demonic pact thing and take a bloodthirster?

Am i the only person who thinks (except for allowing Chaos dwarfs) this is a terrible idea which wipes out 20 years of fluff?

I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. My initial reaction was "Well, that's stupid", however beyond some of the more broken combinations we've come up with and the fact that some armies have access to things which don't make sense, I think this will add some interesting dynamics to games. As others pointed out, things like unridden Wyverns and Carnosaurs in O&G and Lizardmen armies, respectively, form an intriguing proposition which will add a nifty dynamic to certain armies which might be feeling a bit stale to certain players.

Only time will tell if this was a good move from an in-game perspective, however from a business standpoint anything which promotes the sale of big gribblies is really a no-brainer.

SkavenInAZ
14-01-2014, 10:16
From a casual gamer standpoint, this doesn't change much... show up, play with what you brought, discussing it with your opponent.

From a tournament player standpoint, this could change a lot. As the lists above have shown, there are plenty of ways to break this. Tournament organizers will have to do a good job of saying what they allow or don't allow ahead of time.

logan054
14-01-2014, 10:19
From a casual gamer standpoint, this doesn't change much... show up, play with what you brought, discussing it with your opponent.

From a tournament player standpoint, this could change a lot. As the lists above have shown, there are plenty of ways to break this. Tournament organizers will have to do a good job of saying what they allow or don't allow ahead of time.

The list above doesn't show that, it illegal from what I can tell, you can still only take 3 of the same special unit.

Roshan
14-01-2014, 11:26
So what are people leaning towards, personally im thinking of converting a frost phoenix for my Dwarfs, making it into a mechanical beast, with guns ofc, Imagine a bird shaped Spitfire with an engineer as a pilot...
ALRICK PIGEON DOOM HOOOOE.........

Rake
14-01-2014, 11:50
Um... you guys seriously like this news? All it means is K'daai Destroyers, Hydras and Ethereal Dread Saurians running EVERYWHERE in tournaments and each army that can will have 3-4 cannons. It doesn't add a thing to variety or tactics. It's definitely hurt the 40K tourney scene here in Greece and form what i see world-wide and we are celebrating it?

IcedCrow
14-01-2014, 12:54
Yes. The only ones decrying it are tourney players for the most part. Bring on forge world. Per the internet its the death knell, per personal experience tables are many more times more diverse.

underscore
14-01-2014, 13:07
Where are all the cannons coming from?

IcedCrow
14-01-2014, 13:20
Where are all the cannons coming from?

Demonic pacts taking khorne demon cannons. Supposedly everyone now flocks out to buy these and use them.

IcedCrow
14-01-2014, 13:22
Where are all the cannons coming from?

Demonic pacts taking khorne demon cannons. Supposedly everyone now flocks out to buy these and use them.

Zark the Damned
14-01-2014, 13:22
Everyone's looking at this the wrong way.

All you need to know is with the rules pack it's now legal to have an O&G army with 6 Giants at 2500 :D (need to crunch the numbers a bit, but the Giant Scroll of Binding doesn't have the max 2 restriction, fill your Special choices!)

Roshan
14-01-2014, 13:28
Demonic pacts taking khorne demon cannons. Supposedly everyone now flocks out to buy these and use them.

Yeah because I want to spend a bazzillion points on a hero and core, just to spend more on that cannon....which after 3 turns could just vanish....

Roshan
14-01-2014, 13:29
Where are all the cannons coming from?

Dont know, but my tournament Dwarfs are due a run out next month, Im silently sniggering now....bring on the monsters.

IcedCrow
14-01-2014, 13:33
Yeah because I want to spend a bazzillion points on a hero and core, just to spend more on that cannon....which after 3 turns could just vanish....

That's just it - its internet hyperbole about how the tournament scene is totally "ruined" based on some things that some people don't like.

Roshan
14-01-2014, 13:39
That's just it - its internet hyperbole about how the tournament scene is totally "ruined" based on some things that some people don't like.

The pacts are rubbish tbh, all this complaining about pact and scrolls, in order to get said death units you need to spend around 35% of you allocation, and for what? An Alliance that will get you into trouble over a 6 turn game unless you roll lucky.....
Most of the monsters availible will give a nice change, though I suspect the most powerful will be spammed across all armies. *cough* Frostheart

Personally, i dont think the bound monsters will last longer than a year, I remember they added the use of buildings in the doubles in 2012 - each team had to bring a scenery piece, what you discovered was it unbalanced the game, as almost everyone took a wizards tower to get loremaster, sure enough for the next year it was taken out. Alot of this is just GW trying to change things to make it a little less boring.

logan054
14-01-2014, 13:45
Dont know, but my tournament Dwarfs are due a run out next month, Im silently sniggering now....bring on the monsters.

Not as much as my chaos host is sniggering at gunlines ;)

Montegue
14-01-2014, 13:51
Not as much as my chaos host is sniggering at gunlines ;)

Weren't you complaining about how overpowered cannons were?

logan054
14-01-2014, 14:08
Weren't you complaining about how overpowered cannons were?

I still think cannons are too good for the points, that doesn't mean I don't know how to defeat gunlines.

Roshan
14-01-2014, 14:17
Not as much as my chaos host is sniggering at gunlines ;)

Yeah because Dwarf gunlines are the pinnacle of all armies and are impossible to beat :p
Horses for courses.....Ill do alright, but the odds of seeing more than a few out of 120 players is slim at best, the odds of fighting more than 1, less than significant.

logan054
14-01-2014, 14:23
Yeah because Dwarf gunlines are the pinnacle of all armies and are impossible to beat :p
Horses for courses.....Ill do alright, but the odds of seeing more than a few out of 120 players is slim at best, the odds of fighting more than 1, less than significant.

I'm sure we will see a lot of cannons, gunlines or not, might even bring some cannons of my own ;)

Spiney Norman
14-01-2014, 14:26
Weren't you complaining about how overpowered cannons were?

Overpowered doesn't have to mean 'unbeatable', in this case it means the points cost is too low for the affect it has on the game.

Roshan
14-01-2014, 14:30
I'm sure we will see a lot of cannons, gunlines or not, might even bring some cannons of my own ;)

You going in Feb?

logan054
14-01-2014, 14:35
You going in Feb?

Yeah dude, Khorne army = more time time at the bar ;)

Roshan
14-01-2014, 14:42
Yeah dude, Khorne army = more time time at the bar ;)

Aha - ill see you there - hopefully my Yellow Dwarfs will get a best army nomination that ive been chasing

logan054
14-01-2014, 14:44
Aha - ill see you there - hopefully my Yellow Dwarfs will get a best army nomination that ive been chasing

I don't think I will see a whole lot if I have my way, drunken wins are always the most funny ;) hope you have enough FW for that nomination ;)

forseer of fates
14-01-2014, 14:45
LOL that is indeed true Logan, shalt be there in feb also. At least I can now supplement my chaos army with chaos dwarf artillery, not a khorne man myself. Always thought mark of khorne should bring mr, or frenzy be permanent.

Roshan
14-01-2014, 16:14
LOL that is indeed true Logan, shalt be there in feb also. At least I can now supplement my chaos army with chaos dwarf artillery, not a khorne man myself. Always thought mark of khorne should bring mr, or frenzy be permanent.

I thought you were an Empire man :p

Roshan
14-01-2014, 16:16
I don't think I will see a whole lot if I have my way, drunken wins are always the most funny ;) hope you have enough FW for that nomination ;)

Cant Drink as im the Driver in the group :( - got a FW Dwarf Command - does that count :D

logan054
14-01-2014, 17:05
LOL that is indeed true Logan, shalt be there in feb also. At least I can now supplement my chaos army with chaos dwarf artillery, not a khorne man myself. Always thought mark of khorne should bring mr, or frenzy be permanent.

Cool stuff, should be good fun, just an excuse to roll some dice and drink some beer tbh lol. I was tempted by some chaos dwarf bits but I think getting the extra Khorne bits I need will blow my budget enough (assuming I get it all painted in time :( ). Khorne use to get DD, then GW starting hating on them :(


Cant Drink as im the Driver in the group :( - got a FW Dwarf Command - does that count :D

Sounds like a small dwarf army to me, is that legal ;)

forseer of fates
15-01-2014, 02:25
Dam right Roshan, chaos is my secondary army, and I love my hellcannons! Always a good job that I cant drive when it comes to whos driving mwhahahahaha.

VaeVictisGames
15-01-2014, 09:37
So, how does it all work. I mean can any army take anything

Can my dwarf list have an Idol of Gork running around?
Can high elves work around the demonic pact thing and take a bloodthirster?

Am i the only person who thinks (except for allowing Chaos dwarfs) this is a terrible idea which wipes out 20 years of fluff?

It no more destroys 20 years of fluff than the battle for the coke can obelisk, the fight for Macragge where 20 genestealers looked like clanrats, or for that matter the combat between a regiment of Trollslayers and Chaos Warriors being decided by a dice roll rather than hacking them apart at the knees.

It's a game mechanic, nothing more, nothing less. And an optional one at that. Don't think Dwarfs should use Idols of Gork? Don't use them. Nobody is forcing anyone to include anything they don't want to, but neither are they restricting anyone from trying something a bit different.

Tae
15-01-2014, 17:26
FYI just got confirmation from Nick on the events team re. a couple of points:

All the monsters come from your special section (I asked as it wasn't clear in Monstrous Arcanum how I would take the Colossal Squig)

Magic items from MA are allowed.

Also, see you guys there in Feb (I'll have the underground Night Goblins with red shields)

Brother Haephestus
16-01-2014, 17:31
Hey guys -

Just a few questions I had for the WWorld chaps and thought I would share here. Mind you, I will never see the place, but I thought I'd ask. The grudge pony was specifically asked because he doesn't match the definition of something that's fighting, per se:


Greetings!

I have two questions for you regarding acceptable miniatures.

1) Using the Grudge Pony as a unit filler. Like Samwise, I just can't go into battle without my faithful pony! After all, I need to keep track of any grudges! He's not very fighty, however. Now, my GW collection is 'large and in charge' and I have no problems filling out the six warrior spots with good, honest dwarves! What is your recommendation?

2) I'd be fibbing if I didn't say that Fantasy is far and beyond my preferred game. However ... I based my rank and file Daemons for 40k to be cost effective. Can I use them in Fantasy battles if they are lined up properly on movement trays?

thanks for your help, and please take a moment to thank everyone there for an absolutely amazing hobby!

Hi David,

1) Using the Grudge Pony as a unit filler is fine, as long as it doesn't take up more than 20% of the unit. Having your grudge recorded is a fine thing and no dwarf should go without!

2) You can use your round bases in Warhammer as long as they rank up perfectly and don't cause any problems with the other player. We have allowed their use in the past and there has never been a problem. We recommend the War of the Ring Movement Trays.

Cheers,

John Bracken

forseer of fates
16-01-2014, 21:47
Begs the question can you use the som magic items, deary me

logan054
16-01-2014, 21:54
Begs the question can you use the som magic items, deary me

Monstrous Arcanum has magic items and mythic artifacts

forseer of fates
16-01-2014, 22:24
So we can just use the magic items not the mythic artifacts?:/ I can see how some people can be confused by all this kafaffle and nonsense

logan054
16-01-2014, 22:40
No really, the mythic artifacts can only be used in storm of magic games, the magic items before that say they may be used in any game that used scrolls of binding.