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09philj
15-01-2014, 14:49
I vote for the Tyranids. You can kill as many as many times as you like, but they'll come back, stronger and cleverer than before.

El_Machinae
15-01-2014, 15:05
None of the other empires seem to have the potential to improve. Tyranids will just continue to grow more numerous and more crafty. Now, if there was actual progress, then eventually it would become like humans vs. malaria, a long battle but eventually the tools would advance more rapidly than the counter available through evolution, and it would become an eventual extinction. BUT, the overwhelming stagnation means that things are actually hopeless.

Necrontyr
15-01-2014, 15:37
Necrons. If they start to lose, they'll just go to sleep till all of their enemies are dead. They are eternal.

DoomedToRepeatIt
15-01-2014, 16:28
Necrons. If they start to lose, they'll just go to sleep till all of their enemies are dead. They are eternal.

This, basically.

madprophet
15-01-2014, 17:02
In the GrimDark of the 41st millennium there is only war, life sucks and you'll probably end up getting eaten by Tyranids - have fun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MeVxKZBOfM):cries:

Click to see a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MeVxKZBOfM) that explains it all!

TheDungen
15-01-2014, 22:12
I don't think there will be an eventual winner, the imperium is in decline now as they are the are strongest and thus everyone is more or less ganging up on them, but as soon as another faction passes the imperium in power they are going to be the ones taking on all the others, and regardless if it's orks necrons or nidz no single faction can do that.

They would have to move from seen as not a threat to more powerful than all the others together in an extremely short time span. And frankly the factions are all to evenly powered for that and the galaxy to vast to move that fast.

Hmm the Tau might have a shot at the title because they would work for any such temporary alliance against a threat to gain permanency.

3eland
15-01-2014, 23:01
Bugs all the way *woot woot*.

But in seriousness, Tyranids will eventually consume everything.

m1acca1551
16-01-2014, 01:31
Orks for me, they have been touted by members of the imperium as the force that will become the dominate race in the galaxy.
Like Nids they are eternal you have to destroy every spore to ensure that none come back, they are all warriors and they don't care about being beat.

Every other enemy of the imperium has been defeated and sent running, from hive fleets to black crusades the only force able to take hold of a sector and force the imperium into a prolonged engagement is the orks in the Armageddon sector. The orks have proven time and time again that they are capable of the unknown. They have a devastating array of weapons that rival that of the imperium and are created from scrap.

I see the nids being the imperium killers and laying waste to entire swathes of the imperium, but like locusts they have to move on to areas of new food sources, simply imagine if the imperium wasn't in the way the nids may have burned through and moved on. I see the orks becoming the dominate force in the universe through sheer will and their love of war.

Minsc
16-01-2014, 01:46
Tyranids will slowly devour all, except Necrons.
Orks will put up the biggest fight but will eventually be defeated as well.
Necrons are immortals and sore losers, and will go to sleep if they start to get their ass kicked.

So basically Tyranids win the battle, Necrons win the war, and Orks are fittingly the joker in the corner of the room who get's beheaded last.

*Votes Necrons*

DanielBeaver
16-01-2014, 02:09
The way the fluff is written, it's hard to envision the Tyranids losing in the long run. They have consumed entire galaxies before, and the hive fleets we see right now are just the spearpoint.

Necrons might pull a hail mary and win with superior technology.

Likewise, Orks might pull a hail mary just because they're orks.

Chaos will continue to destroy civilizations, but by it's nature can't really "win"

The Imperium is in decline, and will continue to lose ground against their enemies until they start resembling the Eldar. The eventual death or resurrection of the Emperor is a wild card, but he never had to face the Necrons or Tyranids.

Tau are hilariously naive and hopelessly outmatched. Some twist of cosmic fate might bolster them into galactic prominence, but the Necrons and Tyranids have such a head start that they don't have a chance of seriously challenging them.

Horus38
16-01-2014, 02:43
There was a funny post awhile back regarding a similar poll which had this big epic write up of all the races getting their butts kicked by........... THE KROOT!!!

OrganicHamster
16-01-2014, 03:21
Orks or 'nids

Polaria
16-01-2014, 05:54
Tyranids will slowly devour all, except Necrons.
Orks will put up the biggest fight but will eventually be defeated as well.
Necrons are immortals and sore losers, and will go to sleep if they start to get their ass kicked.

So basically Tyranids win the battle, Necrons win the war, and Orks are fittingly the joker in the corner of the room who get's beheaded last.

*Votes Necrons*

Definitely this. For who will consume galaxy I would vote Tyranids, but Necrons would still dominate it after Tyranids run out of food and move on.

TheDungen
16-01-2014, 07:56
Unless the nidz find every single ork spore then the orks will still be around (or rather around again) by the time the nids return, and I don't think the orks will be as easy to defeat for the nidz as you seem to think. Yes we've only seen the first line of the nids attack but they have been defeated quite easily single craftworlds and space marine chapters have defeated hivefleets. THere are a thousand space marine chapters, and that's not even the main strength of the imperium, so yeah the nids are without number, so are the imperial guard, when the imperium start moving guard to face the nids no one is going to hold back the orks, when the orks see the umies getting their asses kicked they will figure the nids are the best fight and then the nids will be fighting what's left of the imperium at that point plus the most massive ork whaagh since Ullanor.
And while mankind may suffer under prolonged conflict, orks thrive on it.

Polaria
16-01-2014, 08:05
Its part of the established lore that after Tyranids have conquered the planet they will suck out all the water, all the air and every bit of biomass from the planet, leaving lifeless, uninhabitable rocks behind. Thus Ork spores would be eaten by the Tyranids and even if a few would survive the final feast they would be left on a dead rock where even Orks can't live.

danny-d-b
16-01-2014, 09:29
I'm going to go with tau- if they can reach this level of technology in 2 millennium (or how ever long it is, much shorter than everyone else) can you imagine what they will be like in another 4-5- have railguns so big and powerfull they can vaporise planets, from one of the tau homeworlds

that is of cource unless the nids eat them, because the nids eat everything

gutsmaka
16-01-2014, 11:17
again, minsk about sums it up. tyrandis will eventually sweep through the galaxy, cleansing it of any life, necrons will go into stasis and then wake up later to claim dominion of whats left. everything else dies

(however, eldar might hide in the webway, particulary dark eldar could probably hide like this. they would just be stuck there afterwards as all the portals would be destroyed. and eventually the eldar would get killed by daemons, assuming the chaos gods are still strong enough without human emotions feeding them. if the chaos gods are sufficiently weak, then the eldar could stand a chance at banishing the actual gods, and claiming the warp with help of isha, the laughing god and whatever els is left of their pantheon)

actually, continuing this train of thought, could certain chaos marines hide out in the warp too? or would tyranids gain access to it via the eye of terror and kill the chaos gods themselves? what then? tyranid gods? if the tyranids had the infinite realm of the warp to explore, would they find the webway? would all tyranids be drawn to the psychic resonance of the warp, as they are drawn to the astronomican? would that mean the tyranids become trapped there, potentially saving other galaxies?

and on that note, could the eye of terror basically be used as a moth light for tyranids if the astronomicon were switched off? and this could be used as viable tactic before all life is extinguished, to trap all tyranids in the warp? only when warpstorms occur, tyranids would come out, not daemons. or maybe tyranids and daemons...

sorry, I didn't mean for this post to be so long, I just had to follow that thought before it got away:)

TheBigBadWolf
16-01-2014, 11:22
A resurgent Imperium,

InstantKarma
16-01-2014, 13:40
I'm going to go with tau- if they can reach this level of technology in 2 millennium (or how ever long it is, much shorter than everyone else) can you imagine what they will be like in another 4-5- have railguns so big and powerfull they can vaporise planets, from one of the tau homeworlds

that is of cource unless the nids eat them, because the nids eat everything

If they can railgun a planet what makes you think a Hive Fleet could even get close enough to eat them in the first place? Nids can hardly touch the Tau in game as it is :p

I also say Tau. We actually improve ourselves. We can incorporate others into our Empire to expand our diversity and options for survival.

Necrons aren't Eternal, they are Immortal. They don't grow old, but they are hardly invulnerable. They are also technologically stagnant. Yeah they are advanced...but they haven't done anything new in a LONG time (just like the Eldar).

Nids evolve, but they cannot do anything outside of their hive mind and are limited to the biological.

Eldar are trapped in the past. They are more advanced only because they WERE when they started out. They have not improved at all since the Fall.

Humanity is the only real threat to the Tau because they can always potentially turn things around. Right now, they are regressive, but humanity is always adaptable.

Orks can be held in check. Their own infighting always does them in.

Chaos couldn't work with a Tau dominated galaxy because we don't feed/worship the Chaos gods since we don't register in the warp. They'd be severely weakened and Chaos is limited by the Warp itself.

So quite simply all you non-Tau, you can either join the Greater Good, or come at me bro;)

harlokin
16-01-2014, 16:27
The True Eldar win. Commorragh has the 'rule of cool' on it's side. :D

Marshal_Loss
16-01-2014, 17:11
The forces of Chaos will triumph!

Soulless
16-01-2014, 17:22
Hrud ;) they just will - you wont see that coming ever :D

Kakapo42
16-01-2014, 19:30
I'm going to have to third the Tau. Their encounter with Hive Fleet Gorgon showed they're just as capable of adapting technologically as the Tyranids are biologically, so I wouldn't put it past them to eventually come up with some sort of invention that stops the Tyranids dead in their tracks. Ditto for the Necrons. And their non-psychic nature would complicate things for the Chaos Gods.

Sure, they're not ruling the galaxy just yet, but their power is growing exponentially. And they have plenty of time to sort things out, because everyone else is pre-occupied. In a galaxy going into the abyss, the Tau are the only ones that are growing (the Orks are largely how they've always been, everywhere, and I'm not counting the Tyranids because they're extragalactic).

GrandmasterWang
17-01-2014, 09:52
Orks win in the end.

They can adapt as well as any race (came up with gargants upon encountering titans)

No race including tyranids can beat them. They are already irrepressible ( Armageddon). Imagine if a race actually attacked the Orks forcing then to actually defend and unite rather than occasionally attacking worlds for lulz.

I can imagine Orks vs Tyranids ending with meks making bug zappers which break the hive minds control and 50k being Ork warbosses Riding into battle on broken Carnifex's and Trygons.

No other race has a chance of actually eliminating the Orks, only surviving against them.

=Angel=
17-01-2014, 10:13
Tau are not a galactic player yet. There are likely ork empires more powerful.
They are a local player on the eastern fringe - a place far far away from the main imperium.

They probably have an equivalent military strength to the 11 worlds of ultramar- just far less mobile.

However, this makes local diplomacy with them desirable for team blue.

By the time a tau ship reached the western side of the galaxy, the 40k story would have concluded.
Someone would already have won, barring eternal status quo.

The necrons can't just hibernate- when they come out if chaos is ascendant or the nids have eaten all life, they're screwed.
Likewise, oldcrons were a Tyranids level threat whereas newcrons are an ork level threat- serious but they are not unified and can be negotiated with.
A human, tau and friendcron alliance could very well defeat the Tyranids in the eastern fringe.
But say it didn't?
What lies between the core of the imperium and the Tyranid fleets?
Uncounted ork empires. As noted, orks thrive on combat.
Another kryptman gambit could tie the nids up indefinitely- wasting biomass. The imperium could torch the victors with exterminatus- preventing biomass from being reclaimed. There are plenty of hard counters to the Tyranid race.
How many necron worlds and empires are there across the eastern fringe? Hundreds? Thousands? Again- there's no biomass to consume and while the nids may avoid the crons, the oldschool genocidal ones will attack them if they get near and the others may attack for fear of losing humanity (slave/ally/source of fleeeesssh)
There is the maelstrom- a refuge of chaos marines and home to Huron of the red corsairs, plus other chaos marines/forces. If it ever got that far-with their human prey/potential converts/ about to be destroyed, you bet your ass the forces of chaos will do something. A protracted conflict there could save humanity- daemons have no biomass to reclaim- a losing battle for the bugs.

The Eldar. They still exist. They could do things.

My money is on the tau and Ultramarines Being nibbled to death, necrons and orks destroying the nids and the imperium of man being seriously reduced in size.
The Eldar will keep on keeping on and the imperium will have less territory to focus on- meaning possible faster reaction times.
Chaos is never going away as a problem, though individual legions or forces might.
Da orks are never going away as their omnipresence means it's a tough job to exterminate them. The great crusade might have if it had concluded properly but if the emperor returned to guide humanity he'd probably do something about the spiky traitors first.

Fangschrecken
17-01-2014, 21:08
I'd want to say Orks, but I don't think they'll ever stop fighting each other long enough to go anywhere. Even if they do it'll be disjointed and as soon as the big boss dies they'll fall apart.

TheDungen
17-01-2014, 22:38
Well if Armageddon is a vahalla for the orks then what would a tyranid invasion be? All of ork kind united in a single whaagh? they'd tear real space and unleash gork (or possibly mork) on the swarm.

Solonor
17-01-2014, 23:15
The Human Emperor mysteriously dies in his throne leaving humanity scattered and fragile...

A massive Tyranid multiple Hive fleet invasion drawn be an unknown beacon will give birth to a massive Ork Waaghh moving towards it, dealing a massive crippling blow to the hivemind that will change it's plans and making it leave the galaxy towards a more easy prey (smaller galaxy), the Orks will go extinct...

The Tau tech advances quickly and manages to copy some of the necron super tech with some convenient findings, they quicky become the most technological advanced race in the galaxy, the only thing they dont master is FTL travel. The Eldar are forced to join the Tau empire to provide for FTL via the webway....

Tau procede to wipeout the last of humanity and destroying all Necron Tombs, they become masters of the galaxy, since they have residual warp presence, Chaos his weakened and quickly the Tau expell them from the material world forever...

Finally the Tau only need to learn the secrets of FTL from the Eldar so they can ride themselves of that final nuissance, but in an instant all Tau in the Galaxy revert to their feral behaviours. The pheromones of the ethereals cease to function...and the long term plan of the Eldar Seers and Dark Eldar Haemoncolous comes into being and the Eldar race returns to it's rightfull place in the galaxy.... ;)

I voted Chaos :)

Fear Ghoul
17-01-2014, 23:45
Chaos will ultimately triumph.

"There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting Gods."

Voss
18-01-2014, 01:01
Chaos will ultimately triumph.

"There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting Gods."

20 years ago, I would have agreed. But the expansions to the universe since the RT & 2nd edition eras have made chaos no more significant than pop rocks. In the current state of the background chaos vs humanity seems like two retirees in Florida squabbling over an orange tree, while the really old geezer (eldar) shakes a fist at both of them. Meanwhile, the hurricane rolls ever closer. It just doesn't matter what the skater hooligans do, or if the kids are busy in Disneyland. The bugs will eat everything, and the 'bots will plant their meaningless flags in the dust that remains.


The amusing bit is that from a background perspective, tyranids really can't be beaten once the battle hits the 40k scale. The only way to beat tyranids is with Battle Fleet Gothic.

Anima
18-01-2014, 01:58
Chaos. Even the rule book goes and out and out calls them "the Greatest Threat." :p

3eland
18-01-2014, 03:48
Is it sad every time I check the updates for this thread I am happy Tyranids are still in first?

TheBearminator
18-01-2014, 04:11
Orks spread like chicken pox. And so they infest planets almost without any effort. If Orks had any interest in strategy they would already have wiped out the other races. But they don't. They don't have a common goal of world domination, they just want a good fight, as often as possible. From what I understand, nidz aren't much better in that they fight each other a lot, but like Orks their numbers are almost unlimited and they have the master minds controlling their forces, unlike Orks.

Activation
18-01-2014, 04:49
Although the Tau have a rapidly improving grasp of real-space technology, perhaps none of it will help them overcome their main limitation: Inter-stellar travel times. They have no psykers, no navigators and hence no true warp travel. Relatively slow interstellar travel is no problem for a very small empire of a few systems, but it puts a serious limit on the Tau's ability to push out beyond the Eastern Fringe.

The larger their Empire gets, the more burdensome the travel times, and the less effectively it would be able to respond to outside threats like the Imperium, who have true warp capability. This means the Tau, even if they win most of their battles, might eventually stagnate into a state of stable equilibrium. The Empire would become too overstretched and sluggish to sustain momentum, much like the current Imperium, except the maximum size of the Tau Empire could be much more limited because their interstellar travel is so much slower. In essence, the one kind of technology the Tau need in order to become a truly galactic power is exactly the one technology they can't master: True warp travel.

The Orks also have serious limitations. A few people have mentioned "the Orks" as if all they need is a reason to unite and then nothing will stop them. But on the galactic scale, the Orks are already at their inherent maximum level of military mobilization, (even if local warbosses like Thraka might cause temporary disturbances).

Instead, I think the best way to view Orks on the galactic scale is as a local threat that happens to exist everywhere. That is, although Orks exist in most sub-sectors, the Orks in this sub-sector are very unlikely to know (or care) what is happening to the Orks in the next sub-sector, let alone the one beyond that. They don't seem to be big on long-range communication networks, etc., which they would need for a coordinated response or even adequate knowledge of what's happening beyond their immediate surroundings. So I think the Orks are very unlikely to respond as a cohesive force to a sweeping galactic threat like the Tyranids.

The Tyranids are very different from the Orks in an important way. They really have a single hive-mind which presumably has an overview of the state of the galaxy and of its adversaries. It can deliberate on and analyze the situation in a detached way, in a way far beyond the knowledge and comprehension of the most ambitious and inspired Ork warboss. It might even make assessments and projections like the one I made above for the Tau.

Remember C&C: Red Alert, or Red Alert 2? Or any of those old RTS games.. If you play on an 8 player map against 7 'hard' computer-controlled AI teams, basically each AI can be individually quite tough, but each always stagnates at some maximum strength, they never really coordinate with each other, and they always fight among themselves. Although it takes time to munch through their bases, the human player can always take apart the AI one-by-one at leisure, because s/he has a mind possessing a coherent overview of the situation. This is how I would imagine the Tyranid hive-mind would deal with the Orks in the galaxy: munch each little Ork empire one-by-one. And not even the hardy Orks can pop back up again on a world stripped of its atmosphere...

There are some factions, Necrons and (Dark) Eldar being the best examples, which are (for lack of a better word) thematically capable of a huge game-changing master-stroke, some deus ex machina which, for example, severs the link between real and warp space and takes everyone by surprise. Tyranids, I think, are not capable of this sort of thing. They are a slow, methodical, grinding destroyer, but not a strategically surprising one in the grand scheme of things. There is definitely a lot of room for one of the ancient races to pull off a shocker like that, but speculating on certain factions' abilities to produce a deus ex machina bomb in the hour of need is already bit too 'meta'.. There could be no end to that discussion.

That's not to say that the Eldar could somehow end up ruling the galaxy in the end, but that they might decide to go down with a noble sacrifice, or rather lashing out in a final grand gesture of spite which denies final victory to one or more of the other factions. This is a thematically fitting end for the Eldar and Dark Eldar.

The outlook seems bleak for the Chaos gods. All the races which are generally thought to be in ascendance (Necrons, Tau, Tyranids), or perhaps just wont go away (Orks), appear to completely confound the machinations of Chaos, while those races which nourish and sustain Chaos (Eldar and Humanity) are generally thought to be in decline…

I don’t have high hopes for the Imperium. Its whole theme is that it’s too fragile, in too many ways, to last much longer. And what could post-Imperium humanity do without the Astronomican beacon? Without anything to replace it (as if anything possibly could..), any resurgent human faction would suffer the same limitations described at the top of this post for Tau.

None of this is particularly decisive, but on the balance of things, I think the Tyranids and Necrons have the best shot at it (though I may just be too hung up on oldcron fluff)…

Considering all this, I voted Tyranids.

papabearshane
18-01-2014, 05:03
Well if Armageddon is a vahalla for the orks then what would a tyranid invasion be? All of ork kind united in a single whaagh? they'd tear real space and unleash gork (or possibly mork) on the swarm.


This times Mork and possibly Gork!

In the end you will never be rid of Orks and they will make the Nids their Riding beasts!

Mephisto Dragonbane
18-01-2014, 06:34
I voted Tyranids, I'm not happy about my choice but I reckon that they will eventually wipe out everything. (damn nids)

Asdrubael108
18-01-2014, 07:24
TYRANIDS, prepare to be cosumed and be broken down into soup! OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNONOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMN OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM!!!!!

09philj
18-01-2014, 14:37
There will come a time when the whole galaxy is annihilated in a cataclysmic event known for the rest of it's creators short lives as "Oh ZOG!"

Barun Von Krump
18-01-2014, 23:46
I vote Orks

IcedAnimals
19-01-2014, 05:42
I still have always liked the theory that the Nids are actually running from an even bigger threat. Which with what we know about the background is one of two things. Either a massive ork waagh is pushing the nids into known space. Or a galaxy so full of chaos mutation that the nids can no longer survive there.

The imperium has sent probes far out past any known planets the imperium has ever been to. And the only thing that has ever returned is massive amounts of ork chatter. The orks likely outnumber the nids a billion to one. And they have already shown to be more than willing to jump down a hive fleets throat for nothing more than a good time.

Orks are the strongest force in the galaxy. They make everything else look pathetic in scale. The only reason they haven't won already is their infighting.

The only other option is necrons. One bored necron with a pair of clippers and the entire tau race is removed in a supernova. If they want they can remove all life from the galaxy, so if the tyranid "weed" ever grows too big. They just hit the galaxy restart button.

Fangschrecken
19-01-2014, 05:52
And what could post-Imperium humanity do without the Astronomican beacon? Without anything to replace it (as if anything possibly could..), any resurgent human faction would suffer the same limitations described at the top of this post for Tau.

Navigation would be more difficult without the light that can be seen across almost the entire galaxy, but there are smaller psychic choirs across human space that act as local guides. So navigation would still be possible, but a whole lot harder.

Think of it as sailors with the north star. Even if you only know where the north star is you can figure out what everything else is and what direction to go. Without it you have to know all these other stars and patterns. You'd have ships head for a light that they think is Macragge and end up at Badab's choir. Eventually they'll be able to get there but if a ship in an armada gets lost it could be years before it gets where it's supposed to get.

Wolf Lord Balrog
19-01-2014, 07:28
The Tau/Eldar alliance will eventually defeat/absorb everybody else. Its clear that the Old Ones are behind the Tau, as they were once behind the Eldar. The Tau look small and over-matched now, and the Eldar just a small remnant of their former glory, but there will come a tipping point in Tau development when they are ready to be the foot soldiers in a new War in the Heavens. The Old Ones, Eldar, and Tau (after absorbing the Imperium) will make their play to eliminate the Necrons, Chaos, and Tyranids.

Call me foolishly optimistic if you like.

Fear Ghoul
19-01-2014, 14:39
20 years ago, I would have agreed. But the expansions to the universe since the RT & 2nd edition eras have made chaos no more significant than pop rocks. In the current state of the background chaos vs humanity seems like two retirees in Florida squabbling over an orange tree, while the really old geezer (eldar) shakes a fist at both of them. Meanwhile, the hurricane rolls ever closer. It just doesn't matter what the skater hooligans do, or if the kids are busy in Disneyland. The bugs will eat everything, and the 'bots will plant their meaningless flags in the dust that remains.

The current rulebook states that Chaos is the greatest threat to the galaxy.

Scorvus
20-01-2014, 21:18
Necrons. Because they can blow up entire star systems if they get miffed enough. :)

Azulthar
20-01-2014, 21:19
I want it to be Orks. They deserve it, they haven't been presented as a serious threat since 3rd edition.

Jolnir
20-01-2014, 21:32
The Tau/Eldar alliance will eventually defeat/absorb everybody else. Its clear that the Old Ones are behind the Tau, as they were once behind the Eldar. The Tau look small and over-matched now, and the Eldar just a small remnant of their former glory, but there will come a tipping point in Tau development when they are ready to be the foot soldiers in a new War in the Heavens. The Old Ones, Eldar, and Tau (after absorbing the Imperium) will make their play to eliminate the Necrons, Chaos, and Tyranids.

Call me foolishly optimistic if you like.

THIS. If they are able to combine Eldar Warp travel with Tau tech advancement, they will be able to eliminate (or at least stalemate) the Tyranids/Orks/Necrons.

The statement that Chaos is the biggest threat to the galaxy may simply mean that humanity will fall to it.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

Rowenstin
21-01-2014, 08:03
Tyranids have consumed a thousand galaxies already. That's a lot of biomass to spend on gaunts.

Kakapo42
21-01-2014, 08:38
You know what will really claim the galaxy in the end? Heat entropy. Not even the Tyranids and Necrons can outlast that. :p

Polaria
21-01-2014, 10:55
THIS. If they are able to combine Eldar Warp travel with Tau tech advancement, they will be able to eliminate (or at least stalemate) the Tyranids/Orks/Necrons.

The statement that Chaos is the biggest threat to the galaxy may simply mean that humanity will fall to it.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

In galactic scale of things Tau are just a little mote in an ocean of stars. There is just not enough of them to make any difference. They control a couple of dozen colonies, most of them with very limited infrastructure or population. All Tau and all their minor race allies combined have hardly more population than a single Imperial Sector. Seriously, a Tyranids Hivefleet, a single Necron Dynasty or even a really big Waaagh could basically roll over Tau and destroy their whole "Empire" without even slowing pace...

Fear Ghoul
21-01-2014, 12:16
The statement that Chaos is the biggest threat to the galaxy may simply mean that humanity will fall to it.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

If that was the case, then why not say "biggest threat to the Imperium"?


Tyranids have consumed a thousand galaxies already. That's a lot of biomass to spend on gaunts.

That's pure conjecture. Nobody knows the history of the Tyranids before their arrival in the Milky Way.


In galactic scale of things Tau are just a little mote in an ocean of stars. There is just not enough of them to make any difference. They control a couple of dozen colonies, most of them with very limited infrastructure or population. All Tau and all their minor race allies combined have hardly more population than a single Imperial Sector. Seriously, a Tyranids Hivefleet, a single Necron Dynasty or even a really big Waaagh could basically roll over Tau and destroy their whole "Empire" without even slowing pace...

The Tau have already defeated a Hive Fleet.

Jolnir
21-01-2014, 12:23
I will add that between the big three (Orks, Tyranids, Necrons), the Tyranids are the only species that gains with each kill. It's like a two-point swing. Each time a Tyranid kills something and devours it, that thing is gone and the Tyranids gain that biomass. When the Orks or Necrons kill a Tyranid, they do not gain anything other than the kill.

But I'm still convinced the Tau have the best mortal humanoid shot at survival, as long as an alliance with the Eldar prevails.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

El_Machinae
21-01-2014, 12:26
Well, orks can gain territory, which adds to their numbers. At the very least, it makes them harder to dislodge. They get the equivalent of tyranid 'biomass' with each territorial victory. Necrons can only really lose numbers, since any damage to a Necron runs the risk of being non-repairable. They can augment their armies with robots (wraiths, etc.) which means that any individual overlord can actually grow in power. But each actual ex-Necrontyr lost is permanent.

Shibboleth
21-01-2014, 13:26
Tyranids will consume all, they just keep coming
(Necrons can still be eaten in their sleep)

- which is irrelevant, because Nurgle can still infect them.
Chaos Wins.

jason_sation
21-01-2014, 13:40
Tyranids consuming Ork spores means that the Orks will grow inside the Tyranids and pop out as a massive Waaagh!. It is a brutally cunning and cunningly brutal plan by Mork (or Gork).

TheGreatestGood
21-01-2014, 20:33
The inevitable return of the missing primarchs will start a re-surgent great crusade, sweeping all others aside. I wish anyway!

Bender
21-01-2014, 20:42
Can I go with squats? Because I think they are building up a secret powerbase somewhere in the galaxy... and nobody excpects the stunty inquisition!

Polaria
22-01-2014, 06:50
The Tau have already defeated a Hive Fleet.

Tau have fought the splintered remnant of a Hive Fleet and survived. Hivefleet Kraken was destroyed by Imperium and Eldar.



Tyranids will consume all, they just keep coming
(Necrons can still be eaten in their sleep)

Except that they don't. This from 5th edition Tyranid codex: "Solemnace is a Necron Tomb World that was in the path of two minor tendrils. However they made major course corrections to avoid conflict with the Necrons, and eventually the tendrils lapsed into hibernation after finding themselves unable to pinpoint any nutrient-rich prey worlds."




- which is irrelevant, because Nurgle can still infect them.
Chaos Wins.

Pure speculation as there is no fluff on whether Chaos a) can or b) will infect Tyranids.

Shibboleth
22-01-2014, 07:47
Pure speculation as there is no fluff on whether Chaos a) can or b) will infect Tyranids.
Oh, forgive my speculation, in a thread of speculation. :rolleyes:

The reason I chose Nurgle rather than Chaos in general is because Tyranids are still flesh and Nurgle's 'disease factor' doesn't necessarily rely on anything warp-based...

Fear Ghoul
22-01-2014, 09:43
Tau have fought the splintered remnant of a Hive Fleet and survived. Hivefleet Kraken was destroyed by Imperium and Eldar.

Hive Fleet Gorgon was it's own distinct Hive Fleet according to my sources. Not as large as Behemoth or Kraken, but a distinct Hive Fleet nevertheless.


Pure speculation as there is no fluff on whether Chaos a) can or b) will infect Tyranids.

We do have references to Chaos Tyranids, such as the Titan carrier in Storm of Iron, and Chaos Genestealer Cults back in Rogue Trader/2nd edition. Additionally, there is every reason to expect that Tyranids can be corrupted by Chaos.

Polaria
22-01-2014, 10:22
Hive Fleet Gorgon was it's own distinct Hive Fleet according to my sources. Not as large as Behemoth or Kraken, but a distinct Hive Fleet nevertheless.

Hive Fleet Gorgon was beat by the combination of both Necron, Tau and Imperium. Firstly the one Necron Tombworld that was triggered by the Gorgon invasion actually OUTNUMBERED the Tyranids in ship-to-ship combat and basically wiped out a good portion of the Hive Fleet alone should tell something about how much they contributed. Also, the Tyranid Codex (5th edition) quite clearly says that Tyranids were unable to adapt quickly enough to two so different armies and losed because of that, heavily implying that Tau alone would have been "out-adapted" and wouldn't have lasted.




We do have references to Chaos Tyranids, such as the Titan carrier in Storm of Iron, and Chaos Genestealer Cults back in Rogue Trader/2nd edition.

This I did not know. Interesting information.




Additionally, there is every reason to expect that Tyranids can be corrupted by Chaos.

Considering the fact that we also have every reason to expect that Tau can be corrupted by Chaos but we still don't have "Chaos Tau" mentioned anywhere I don't think we can take the universality of chaos' corrupting power for granted in any way.

Azulthar
23-01-2014, 09:14
Fluff in the latest Tyranid codex mentions Daemons being pretty upset with Tyranids because they deem them as corruptible as a lump of rock.

I also hope that at least half of the Tau votes are joke votes. Cool as these guys are, they're quite irrelevant in the larger scheme of things.

Fear Ghoul
23-01-2014, 09:30
Hive Fleet Gorgon was beat by the combination of both Necron, Tau and Imperium. Firstly the one Necron Tombworld that was triggered by the Gorgon invasion actually OUTNUMBERED the Tyranids in ship-to-ship combat and basically wiped out a good portion of the Hive Fleet alone should tell something about how much they contributed. Also, the Tyranid Codex (5th edition) quite clearly says that Tyranids were unable to adapt quickly enough to two so different armies and losed because of that, heavily implying that Tau alone would have been "out-adapted" and wouldn't have lasted.

A small sub-section of the Hive Fleet was outnumbered by the Necrons.

Furthermore, the Imperium contributed only a single regiment and presumably a handful of ships to the fight. I think the Tau should get the lion's share of the glory.

Polaria
23-01-2014, 09:37
A small sub-section of the Hive Fleet was outnumbered by the Necrons.

Furthermore, the Imperium contributed only a single regiment and presumably a handful of ships to the fight. I think the Tau should get the lion's share of the glory.

The original point still stands: Having the lion's share of glory in battling off a small Hive Fleet with Imperial assistance after it had been weakened by Necrons doesn't suddenly transform the Tau Empire into a Galactic level player that has any chance of winning in the "contest" this thread is about ;)

SomeRandomEvilGuy
23-01-2014, 19:50
The original point still stands: Having the lion's share of glory in battling off a small Hive Fleet with Imperial assistance after it had been weakened by Necrons doesn't suddenly transform the Tau Empire into a Galactic level player that has any chance of winning in the "contest" this thread is about ;)
Seeing as how the word "eventually" is used it is possible that the Tau survive and expand sufficiently to rise to domination. Personally I find it very implausible, but it could happen (especially if they continue to develop technology, produce it in large numbers and assimilate more species' and their technology). Though it is unlikely they'd be able to contend with the Necrons technologically and they have vastly superior numbers so circumstances would have to completely favour the Tau.

Polaria
24-01-2014, 07:55
A small sub-section of the Hive Fleet was outnumbered by the Necrons.

Furthermore, the Imperium contributed only a single regiment and presumably a handful of ships to the fight. I think the Tau should get the lion's share of the glory.

I just read the Gorgon fluff from the 6th edition Tyranid Codex. I don't know if the old fluff was just lacking details or if something has been retconned, but in the new codex the story seems to be very different from old one. Necrons are not mentioned at all, but the involvement of the Imperium is given much more weight. For example, the Tau got their asses royally kicked in first engagements because they Tyranids out-adapted them. When the Tau retreat Imperial psykers notice the hive fleet closing in on where the Tau have retreated and warn the Tau of the impending doom. Then the Imperium and Tau join forces to beat back Tyranids, which is made possible because the Gorgon could not evolve to meet two totally different technologies and two different styles of fighting quickly enough. It is mentioned that in first wave alone the Imperials lose three regiments and Tau lose two cadres, implying that the Imperial involvement is much, much larger than just one regiment you mentioned. It is also mentioned that the ability of the Tyranids to evolve fast to counter even the most advanced Tau technologies has raised much concern amongst Tau Empire.




We do have references to Chaos Tyranids, such as the Titan carrier in Storm of Iron, and Chaos Genestealer Cults back in Rogue Trader/2nd edition. Additionally, there is every reason to expect that Tyranids can be corrupted by Chaos.

Apparently this has been retconned. 6th edition Codex fluff quite clearly states chaos cannot corrupt Tyranids as they have no souls to corrupt. From the point-of-view of Daemons the Tyranids are as good as "lumps of rock". Likewise the Tyranids don't seem to notice Daemons at all unless the Daemons attack them as there is no biomass to consume.

Kakapo42
24-01-2014, 11:34
I just read the Gorgon fluff from the 6th edition Tyranid Codex. I don't know if the old fluff was just lacking details or if something has been retconned, but in the new codex the story seems to be very different from old one. Necrons are not mentioned at all, but the involvement of the Imperium is given much more weight. For example, the Tau got their asses royally kicked in first engagements because they Tyranids out-adapted them. When the Tau retreat Imperial psykers notice the hive fleet closing in on where the Tau have retreated and warn the Tau of the impending doom. Then the Imperium and Tau join forces to beat back Tyranids, which is made possible because the Gorgon could not evolve to meet two totally different technologies and two different styles of fighting quickly enough. It is mentioned that in first wave alone the Imperials lose three regiments and Tau lose two cadres, implying that the Imperial involvement is much, much larger than just one regiment you mentioned. It is also mentioned that the ability of the Tyranids to evolve fast to counter even the most advanced Tau technologies has raised much concern amongst Tau Empire.

That's a pretty major change if that's right. In the 5th edition codex's description, the Tau were able to match the Tyranids adaptation for adaptation, and the ground battle quickly turned into the two forces one-upping each other (first the Tyranids send in waves of Gaunts that get decimated by Kroot in woodlands, then they send Gaunts specially evolved to move through woodland terrain that massacre the Kroot but then get gunned down by Firewarriors, so then the Tyranids breed Gaunts immune to pulse fire, so then the Tau salvage Kroot rifles and issue them to the Firewarriors, and so on and so forth). The Imperial force had no idea about the Tyranids, having been sent to fight in the Damocles Gulf Crusade but arriving much much much later, and they negotiated a temporary cease-fire with the Tau before fighting alongside them against Gorgon, and the hive fleet's defeat is partially the result of being unable to adapt to two different forces at once and using up too much biomass during it's initial one-upmanship battles with the Tau.

Activation
24-01-2014, 14:54
Tyranids have consumed a thousand galaxies already. That's a lot of biomass to spend on gaunts.

That's pure conjecture. Nobody knows the history of the Tyranids before their arrival in the Milky Way.
The following comes from WD#36 (emphasis mine):

“Humanity will be absorbed, broken into strands of DNA to be used to create a new generation of bio-technology. It will be the death of the human race, but to the Tyranid hive mind this is of no more consequence than the mining of ores or the harvesting of crops. For the Tyranids have no sense of pity or compassion, they are as utterly beyond human understanding as humans are beyond their comprehension. To them man is just an inefficient and primitive lifeform, something to be consumed and turned to a higher purpose. Such has been the fate of a thousand galaxies, of millions of intelligent species, since time immemorial.”


Apparently this has been retconned. 6th edition Codex fluff quite clearly states chaos cannot corrupt Tyranids as they have no souls to corrupt. From the point-of-view of Daemons the Tyranids are as good as "lumps of rock".
I'm confused by this. There is a lot of precedent suggesting that soulless and inanimate objects can be corrupted and even possessed by daemons. And not just swords and other trinkets, but even city-sized starships (see the rules and models for daemon-ships in Battlefleet Gothic). If Chaos daemons can possess even a colossal starship, I wonder what it is about Tyranid creatures that confounds them. Does the hive-mind protect against that sort of thing?

Polaria
24-01-2014, 15:08
That's a pretty major change if that's right. In the 5th edition codex's description, the Tau were able to match the Tyranids adaptation for adaptation, and the ground battle quickly turned into the two forces one-upping each other (first the Tyranids send in waves of Gaunts that get decimated by Kroot in woodlands, then they send Gaunts specially evolved to move through woodland terrain that massacre the Kroot but then get gunned down by Firewarriors, so then the Tyranids breed Gaunts immune to pulse fire, so then the Tau salvage Kroot rifles and issue them to the Firewarriors, and so on and so forth). The Imperial force had no idea about the Tyranids, having been sent to fight in the Damocles Gulf Crusade but arriving much much much later, and they negotiated a temporary cease-fire with the Tau before fighting alongside them against Gorgon, and the hive fleet's defeat is partially the result of being unable to adapt to two different forces at once and using up too much biomass during it's initial one-upmanship battles with the Tau.

The first part has stayed the same, with Tau and Tyranid matching each others tactics, but after Gorgons second defeat the Tyranids come up with a combination of chameleon-skinned creatures and Mawlocs the Tau cannot match. After that the Tau manage to escape quite easily just to run into Imperial forces. The two sides fight each other untill the Imperial Psykers detect Hive Fleets approach and Imperial decide to ally with Tau.

"Acting in concert, the Imperial and Tau fleets cut deep into Gorgon's vanguard. Though casualties were heavy, the allies destroyed a majority of the bio-ships, severely reducing the Tyranids' reproductive capacity"

"...the disparate weaponry and tactics employed by the allies prevented the rapid adaptation that had plagued the Tau."

"Gorgon would have a lasting legacy for the Tau. Seeing how quickly their tehcnologies had been circumvented, they strived to make new weapons."

All texts in italics are verbatim quotes.




I'm confused by this. There is a lot of precedent suggesting that soulless and inanimate objects can be corrupted and even possessed by daemons. And not just swords and other trinkets, but even city-sized starships (see the rules and models for daemon-ships in Battlefleet Gothic). If Chaos daemons can possess even a colossal starship, I wonder what it is about Tyranid creatures that confounds them. Does the hive-mind protect against that sort of thing?

There is no explanation offered, however the Tyranid immunity to corruption is clear: "The Daemons lords' confusion turned to outrage at the seething tide of aiens that choked the surface and the skies. These creatures had no souls to corrupt, manipulate or twist. They could no more be led into damnation than a lump of rock."

My best guess would be that the corruption of inanimate objects cannot be done without a soul to help and is always managed by extension from the corruption of the souls wielding the objects: Chaos Space Marines power armour melds with their corrupted flesh and their weapons become extension of their bodies, the bodies of fighter pilots are absorbed into the hulls of their vessels untill the Heldrake pilot is part of the infernal machine, chaos sorcerers summon the deamons to their ships and keep them tied to the matter with constant sacrifices and rites... That kind of stuff.

Azulthar
24-01-2014, 19:41
Possession and corruption are also not necessarily the same thing.

Perrin
24-01-2014, 19:46
Nope. Look at the Exorcists. They have been possessed, but haven't been corrupted.

Chalkfour
24-01-2014, 22:09
Chaos already dominates the galaxy, a perfect mirror to the realm of the warp. The Gods have everything the way they want it, a steady stream of souls no matter who is winning what war.

insectum7
24-01-2014, 22:48
There is no explanation offered, however the Tyranid immunity to corruption is clear: "The Daemons lords' confusion turned to outrage at the seething tide of aiens that choked the surface and the skies. These creatures had no souls to corrupt, manipulate or twist. They could no more be led into damnation than a lump of rock."

My best guess would be that the corruption of inanimate objects cannot be done without a soul to help and is always managed by extension from the corruption of the souls wielding the objects: Chaos Space Marines power armour melds with their corrupted flesh and their weapons become extension of their bodies, the bodies of fighter pilots are absorbed into the hulls of their vessels untill the Heldrake pilot is part of the infernal machine, chaos sorcerers summon the deamons to their ships and keep them tied to the matter with constant sacrifices and rites... That kind of stuff.

I don't see this as necessarily excluding the corrupted genestealer cults of old. While I can imagine that Tyranids under control of the hive mind might be "soulless", the cults set up by purestrain genestealers are very distant from the hive mind, and can begin to exhibit more individualistc traits. Certainly the hybrids who are part human would be more likely to have a "soul", and the Magus who could be much more an individual than a pawn of a hive mind. Looking back at the older lists, the Genestealer Patriarch itself, separated from the hive mind and running it's own game could possibly begin to have a soul. Perhaps it is a sense of self-awareness and self-agency that begins to form "soul". This mindful plotting, manipulation and drive to subvert a civilization with one's brood is a very different consciousness than the typical beast being dominated by the Tyranid will. It's these creatures that begin to exhibit will and ambition who are the type that Chaos might begin to turn. The older fiction describes the Magus or Broodlord themselves often seeking favor from the Chaos gods to aid in their quest for domination.

Gus
25-01-2014, 01:42
Where does the "the Tyranid fleets are a vanguard" come from. The codex only states that as a THEORY not fact.

Activation
25-01-2014, 04:40
Where does the "the Tyranid fleets are a vanguard" come from. The codex only states that as a THEORY not fact.
Maybe from this, again an objective description from WD#36 (emphasis mine):

"Beyond the human galaxy lie the vast uncharted regions of intergalactic space. Empty distances too vast to comprehend thwart all of mankind’s attempts to navigate them. These are the great barriers which separate galaxy from galaxy and keep the farthest stars the subject of conjecture and mystery. Now something stirs in the frozen emptiness. An intelligence moves through it, a mind that is many inter-linked minds, immeasurably old and alien. This is the Tyranid hive mind, and it has crossed the great dark void in search of new planets to despoil. Now its advance forces have reached the Imperium, and the fate of mankind and every living thing in the galaxy hang in the balance."

Also, the mention that a thousand galaxies and a million intelligent civilizations have already been consumed makes it very hard to believe that the few hive fleets which have already appeared in the Milky Way represent even a significant fraction of the whole Tyranid race.

SomeRandomEvilGuy
25-01-2014, 05:13
Also, the mention that a thousand galaxies and a million intelligent civilizations have already been consumed makes it very hard to believe that the few hive fleets which have already appeared in the Milky Way represent even a significant fraction of the whole Tyranid race.
I think that that's debatable personally. The amount of energy\biomass the Tyranids use in crossing galaxies is entirely up for debate. For all we know most of what the Tyranids gain from consuming the resources of a galaxy is used up travelling to the next one. I do however think that the views of the Silent King could be of use here; while subjective he possesses technology which could very likely be capable of measuring the danger of the Tyranid fleet. He thinks that should much of this galaxy be consumed the united Necrons would be unable to defeat the Tyranids. Which in my opinion actually suggests that a single galaxies' worth of biomass is important to the power of the Tyranids. Which to me suggests that they do indeed lose a lot by crossing the void between galaxies.

Liber
25-01-2014, 11:34
I
The imperium has sent probes far out past any known planets the imperium has ever been to. And the only thing that has ever returned is massive amounts of ork chatter


Source for this?

Gus
25-01-2014, 13:32
Instead pointing at what the respective Codex says about how "this race is unstoppable" let's point at deeds:
Chaos: corrupted half of the Imperium during the HH, besieged the Imperial Palace, and only lost because Horus' died. Now, they are currently fighting the Imperium over Segmentum Pacificus (night of 1000 rebellions) and have conquered great swathes of Segmentum Obscuras and pushed the Imperium back. (Eye of Terror Campaign ending, pre retcon)
The Tyranids: got smashed by the Ultramarines 3 times at Macragge, Ichar IV, and Tarsis Ultra. The rest of Hive Fleet Leviathan is currently locked in war with the Orks of Octarius. The only region of space the Tyranids have effected is The Eastern Fringe. And maybe they have devoured countless galaxies but that does not mean there numbers are unlimited. Maybe they do have thousands more Hive Fleets as back up, maybe this is the last one, we cannot make assumptions.
But, even though Chaos should win out in the end, in the Grim Derpness of GW, the Bad Guys will always be punching bags for the good guys to sell more products. So if any faction actually "wins" it will be the Imperium. Even though it should be Chaos.

09philj
25-01-2014, 14:34
Source for this?

5th edition ork codex page 18 paragraph 2.

09philj
25-01-2014, 14:42
If we examine the map of ork waaaghs in progress from the codex, we can see the hive fleets are at war with, or will probably become at war with about 5 waaaghs, including waaagh grog, which is currently moving through tau space, acquiring lots of advanced dakka as it goes.

The Emperor
26-01-2014, 06:46
The Imperium. Once the Emperor kicks the bucket he'll ascend as the Star Child and defeat the Chaos gods, turning them into entities more beneficial to Mankind. With the Emperor back and stronger than ever, and the powers of Chaos converted into something benign for Mankind, the Imperium will explode outward again.

Gus
28-01-2014, 02:57
The Emperor can only beat the Chaos Gods in the material realm, the warp is their playground.

The Emperor
28-01-2014, 04:02
The Emperor can only beat the Chaos Gods in the material realm, the warp is their playground.

He could beat them the same way Slaanesh defeated the Eldar gods. He's certainly got enough power for it, especially after 10,000 years of accumulated worship.

Dr.Clock
28-01-2014, 06:59
In essence, I think that most factions are overly reliant on a 'centralized' paradigm that may leave them vulnerable to a catastrophe

Chaos relies, as has been remarked, on the worship and/or corruption of souls. Essentially, if humans are wiped out, the power of the Gods wanes precipitously. It's possible that they could come to rule the galaxy, but this becomes increasingly unlikely given the presence of factions that they get effectively nothing from fighting.

Necrons could conceivably outlast everyone through dormancy, it's true, but they are also at risk of having their 'data' detroyed or corrupted.

Humans are reliant on the Emperor. Destroy Terra and you've got an unconnected, unwieldy collection of individual systems ripe for destruction.

I would argue that tyranids have the best shot at consuming the galaxy, as they are entirely self-reliant... however, once they consume 90+% of the galaxy, they are likely to simply move on. There is no point from their perspective in 'dominating' physical space.

Orks, on the other hand, are also self-reliant, but not in the manner of a hive... an entire Ork civilization may come from a single spore... unlike tyranids which require hive ships and the like to breed warriors, the seed of an Ork-dominate galaxy persists in each Ork. Even though the tyranids may wipe out humanity, there will undoubtedly remain ork spores drifting in space where tyranids won't care about them. A few thousand years after the tyranids leave, you're likely to have numerous ork empires throughout the galaxy, once again fighting one another, as Mork and Gork intended.

Some factions may also 'escape' the tyranids, notably Dark Eldar by hiding in the Webway. However, they are highly unlikely to ever 'dominate' the galaxy due to their limited numbers and infighting (expansion will be severly hampered by the desire of elites to maintain a tight hold on their 'empire').

In sum, in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only WAAAAAAAGH!

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

bobhope99
28-01-2014, 08:14
It is worth pointing our that dark age of technology humans had tech that was almost necron level (the men of iron- a fully functional AI) and traveled the warp across the whole galaxy without the need of the astronimicon. Having fully functional gellar fields probably helped out a lot. If the dark age of imperium ended and was replaced by a progressive humanity they would dominate the galaxy in a few thousand years.

The people saying that Tau are a not player also need to remember that in universe humanity went from stone age barbarians to one of the biggest galactic forces in around 20k years and Tau have been out pacing us at every milestone.

Anggul
28-01-2014, 09:50
Probably none of them. It's unlikely that any race will ever dominate the entire galaxy. Among the races with codices and a lot of fluff there are thousands of other races with empires and great power. All of the races we know so well will probably eventually die off and be usurped by new rising races, just like there were races before the current well-known ones which eventually died out and were usurped by them. Even long before the Necrons there would have been other grand empires rising and falling beyond any memory, and it will happen again.

To the galaxy and the universe, what mankind thinks is glory and the chaos gods think is their greatness is nothing but a minute blip in the cosmos. The chaos gods are young to the universe, they see themselves as great and powerful but no doubt there are many beings that make them look pathetic and childish by comparison. The Emperor is probably nothing compared to some random being in another galaxy or some race in the future which may rise to power.

Even if one of the races we know does somehow manage to dominate the entire galaxy, one day they will fall and be replaced by something else, it's only a matter of time.

The Emperor
30-01-2014, 11:32
The people saying that Tau are a not player also need to remember that in universe humanity went from stone age barbarians to one of the biggest galactic forces in around 20k years and Tau have been out pacing us at every milestone.

That assumes Tau technology is anywhere near as good as what was available during the Dark Age of Technology, which I doubt. Also, that rise also came about through the use of warp drives, which the Tau will never be able to master. Humanity was able to spread across the galaxy because of the development of the Navigator gene, something which the Tau will never be able to develop because they're not psychic. That puts a hard limit on their ability to expand.

budman
30-01-2014, 13:25
I would have gone with nids till the new dex came out.

Now I have go with the thing the nids are running from.

El_Machinae
30-01-2014, 13:49
Is there text supporting that idea in the new 'dex?

krustydave
30-01-2014, 15:17
Tyranids will consume all, they just keep coming
(Necrons can still be eaten in their sleep)


dont get this...necrons have no biomass for the nids to consume!?
A necrontyr soul or a robot made of metal/composite would yield no benefit for the hive.
The tomb worlds are often dead, lifeless and atmosphereless anyway.
For this reason...as far as I can see, it would be the crons, playing the long game...a they are best at doing who end up on top.
By keeping their heads down and because they are of NO threat or interest to the nids whatsoever...who are not
fighting for teritory or prestige or hate...just food.
All they have to do is fend off the other races, survive and wait for the nids to consume all other LIFE, and move on, no life = no chaos, then then the galaxy is theirs for the taking....and if they feel like helping the nids find their way into the webway to finish off the various flavours of spandex space elf they would do so gladly.

my 2 cents!

Kebert Xela
30-01-2014, 15:53
crons vs nids, technology vs evolution, im gonna go with crons since the nids cant absorb their biomass to make themselves stronger plus crons can self repair and just keep coming back, also have always thought the nids were running from some galactic sized kid with a magnifying glass

gwarsh41
30-01-2014, 19:30
Necrons consumed the galaxy before, I think they could do it again. Besides, they can always sleep until the fighting is over. Besides, necrons tesla is like a big bug zapper! It is fated for the necrons to win!

Iball17
31-01-2014, 01:42
Tyranids can digest metal and add it to the biomass. Just imagine living metal carnifexes showing up.

krustydave
31-01-2014, 11:00
Tyranids can digest metal and add it to the biomass. Just imagine living metal carnifexes showing up.

Source?

by definition...

"Biomass is biological material derived from living, or recently living organisms. In the context of biomass for energy this is often used to mean plant based material, but biomass can equally apply to both animal and vegetable derived material."

Dosent sound anything like A Necron to me...and certainly nothing to do with metals which are derived from ores in rocks!
To do anything useful with a metal the nids would have to change the state of that metal to a blank, which requires energy...chemical or otherwise and yet more to form it into something they could use ...sounds like a net loss for the nids to bother consuming necrons to me. Esp as alot of the talons etc...are 'as strong as adamantium and tough as ceramite etc!" but then again...physics and chemistry is so screwed up in the 41st milenium who knows what is possible! lol

totgeboren
31-01-2014, 13:47
Well, organic chemistry is simply chemistry involving carbon to make it simple. Us humans for example need metals like iron and zink, and other elements like calcium and silica in our bones, the the first two are metals and the second two more closely related to minerology and high-temperature ash chemistry than biology.
That nids can use metals and inorganic compounds makes perfect sense the way I see it. I mean, there are bacteria living of sulphuric compounds that would be extremely poisons to most lifeforms and so on. If life on earth can eat that, nids could probably absorb things most mammals can absorb.

What 'living metal' is supposed to be is anyones guess on the other hand. I looks like it can readily mix with organic chemistry if Ferrus Manus is anything to go by, so Nids can probably eat that too.

El_Machinae
31-01-2014, 14:00
'Nids don't need to digest. They just need to cause enough irreversible repairs, which (AFAICT are an accidental subset of 'normal repairs').
As simple ecology invading a tomb world would consistently probe tomb defenses in a way a tree root can get through your basement wall

Kebert Xela
31-01-2014, 16:54
it would be interesting to watch the swarmlord and stormlord go at it and try to out maneuver each other in a massive galactic campaign. I imagine in order to keep up with Imotekh the Swarmlords head grows to resemble a zoanthropes

=Angel=
31-01-2014, 20:09
Well, organic chemistry is simply chemistry involving carbon to make it simple. Us humans for example need metals like iron and zink, and other elements like calcium and silica in our bones, the the first two are metals and the second two more closely related to minerology and high-temperature ash chemistry than biology.That nids can use metals and inorganic compounds makes perfect sense the way I see it. I mean, there are bacteria living of sulphuric compounds that would be extremely poisons to most lifeforms and so on. If life on earth can eat that, nids could probably absorb things most mammals can absorb.What 'living metal' is supposed to be is anyones guess on the other hand. I looks like it can readily mix with organic chemistry if Ferrus Manus is anything to go by, so Nids can probably eat that too.They dont though. They observably leave lifeless balls of rock rather than consuming stone and steel. You migght conclude that if they could eat non organic stuff, its not as useful as the time spent eating it would be-beacuse they clearly prioritise flying to the next source of biomass than eating the leftover planet.This may be because the effort of making acid strong enough to eat the metal swiftly doesn't give a good investment to return. Or because there is a limit to the amount of steel that is useful to a living creature.Or because they're lazy.In short- Tyranids are those guys who go to the pizza hut buffet and then don't eat their crusts.

Iball17
31-01-2014, 23:59
Source?

by definition...

"Biomass is biological material derived from living, or recently living organisms. In the context of biomass for energy this is often used to mean plant based material, but biomass can equally apply to both animal and vegetable derived material."

Dosent sound anything like A Necron to me...and certainly nothing to do with metals which are derived from ores in rocks!
To do anything useful with a metal the nids would have to change the state of that metal to a blank, which requires energy...chemical or otherwise and yet more to form it into something they could use ...sounds like a net loss for the nids to bother consuming necrons to me. Esp as alot of the talons etc...are 'as strong as adamantium and tough as ceramite etc!" but then again...physics and chemistry is so screwed up in the 41st milenium who knows what is possible! lol

Yeah I know the definition of biological, but I thought I have read somewhere rippers eating metal and they are the first step of tyranid digestion. But I can find the source.

Langdon
01-02-2014, 14:28
He could beat them the same way Slaanesh defeated the Eldar gods. He's certainly got enough power for it, especially after 10,000 years of accumulated worship.


if he didnt have the K-a-Day diet.. he would have withered away millennia ago.

For now he is the Iron Lung of the Imperium



I voted for 'crons because in the fluff of Tyranids, they actively avoided tomb worlds, even ones teaming with life. They know that whatever lies there is deadly enough to not be messed with.

Hindle
01-02-2014, 17:24
Well the Chaos gods were created through human emotion, and thrive off worship and souls.
If this is the case, the Emperor needs to be killed, he will then become a god more powerful than the pantheon of Chaos. How many humans worship him daily? How many guardsmen have sacrificed their lives on the endless battlefields?
The answer is probably far more than any of the chaos gods.

So the Emperor can then destroy the chaos gods in the warp, and end their influence on the material world. The Imperium's massive warmachine can turn its attention to the other threats of the galaxy.

No need for the astronomican when the Emperor is a god guiding you through warp space to your destination.

Even better, the Emperor could whip the chaos gods into submission and use them as a weapon against his foes, could you imagine the power the Imperium would wield?

None of this is going to happen of course, so I've voted Necrons :)

Edit: Although I totally agree with this: -

Probably none of them. It's unlikely that any race will ever dominate the entire galaxy. Among the races with codices and a lot of fluff there are thousands of other races with empires and great power. All of the races we know so well will probably eventually die off and be usurped by new rising races, just like there were races before the current well-known ones which eventually died out and were usurped by them. Even long before the Necrons there would have been other grand empires rising and falling beyond any memory, and it will happen again.

To the galaxy and the universe, what mankind thinks is glory and the chaos gods think is their greatness is nothing but a minute blip in the cosmos. The chaos gods are young to the universe, they see themselves as great and powerful but no doubt there are many beings that make them look pathetic and childish by comparison. The Emperor is probably nothing compared to some random being in another galaxy or some race in the future which may rise to power.

Even if one of the races we know does somehow manage to dominate the entire galaxy, one day they will fall and be replaced by something else, it's only a matter of time.

jakejackjake
05-02-2014, 15:58
That assumes Tau technology is anywhere near as good as what was available during the Dark Age of Technology, which I doubt. Also, that rise also came about through the use of warp drives, which the Tau will never be able to master. Humanity was able to spread across the galaxy because of the development of the Navigator gene, something which the Tau will never be able to develop because they're not psychic. That puts a hard limit on their ability to expand.


Apparently someone can read the skeins well

jakejackjake
05-02-2014, 15:59
if he didnt have the K-a-Day diet.. he would have withered away millennia ago.

For now he is the Iron Lung of the Imperium



I voted for 'crons because in the fluff of Tyranids, they actively avoided tomb worlds, even ones teaming with life. They know that whatever lies there is deadly enough to not be messed with.

When he withers away he then becomes a Chaos deity in the opinion of the Eldar is it? Something like that. So it will actually give him more access to his power and influence.

Langdon
06-02-2014, 00:51
When he withers away he then becomes a Chaos deity in the opinion of the Eldar is it? Something like that. So it will actually give him more access to his power and influence.
Well old fluff puts him as the Star Child.

Not really a chaos deity, but not good either.. more akin to what Malal was.. he will destroy the pantheon and likely the Eldar with it.

THAT is why he is feared by the Eldar

Death Specter
19-02-2014, 03:02
Tyrannids of course

Sanai
25-02-2014, 02:03
Obviously Nyds. Tyranids avoid Tomb Worlds because there is not enough biomass on a Tomb World for it to be worth the effort of fighting the Necrons on the Tomb World.

Also, it is logical to assume that the Tyranids have done this before (why would they leave their home galaxy to come all the way here unless they had already eaten everything in said home galaxy).

Finally, they are one of the only factions (other than the tau and arguably chaos) that isn't on a slow decline into decrepitude. Every year the Tyranids get more deadly, while the Imperium is losing ground to a multitude of threats daily and every decade they forget how to build another of their toys. The programming of the Necrons is slowly degrading and they aren't building any new tomb worlds.

RanaldLoec
27-02-2014, 20:27
Obviously Nyds. Tyranids avoid Tomb Worlds because there is not enough biomass on a Tomb World for it to be worth the effort of fighting the Necrons on the Tomb World.

Also, it is logical to assume that the Tyranids have done this before (why would they leave their home galaxy to come all the way here unless they had already eaten everything in said home galaxy).

Finally, they are one of the only factions (other than the tau and arguably chaos) that isn't on a slow decline into decrepitude. Every year the Tyranids get more deadly, while the Imperium is losing ground to a multitude of threats daily and every decade they forget how to build another of their toys. The programming of the Necrons is slowly degrading and they aren't building any new tomb worlds.

I'd disagree we don't know if tyranids have "done it before" it's a suggestion thats mused about in the codex but no definitive answer is given.

The imperium is also rediscovering STC technology.

Lightening, Storm Raven, Avenger Strike Fighter etc.

Orks have never been in decline and they numbers only ever grow.

Chaos daemons as nids can't devour them, eat them or absorb there genetic material as they have none.

Only Chaos in the 40k universe is the true eternal power, others will come and go but the four will remain.

Sanai
27-02-2014, 20:44
It is well established that the tyranids are invading from outside our galaxy. This likely means that they evolved in another galaxy. It is unlikely they would expend the time/effort required to travel from one galaxy to another unless they exhausted the food supply in their home galaxy.

Once all life is consumed by the tyranids, Chaos will cease to be what it is today- the Swarm's psychic presence seems to be powerful enough to shield the tyranid race from corruption, and once the only life left in the galaxy is tyranids and some orks..... well there wont be much for the chaos daemons to feed off.

The small amounts of STC the imperium has recovered is nothing compared to what they have lost over time. Its the lightning, Storm Raven, Avenger, grav guns, etc compared to... well lets just make a list of what space marines on their own seem to have lost between the Horus Heresy and now...
Phospex Bombs
Rad Weapons
Volkite Weapons
Contemptor Dreadnoughts (I am assuming they can no longer build new Contemptors)
Dreadclaws
A whole plethora of tank designs
A great reduction in the quantity & quality in plasma technology
The knowledge required to tinker with space marine gene code (due to the machinations of the Alpha Legion)
Jetbikes

Heck, even the venerable Baneblade is a design that is slowly being lost- forge worlds are struggling to produce enough baneblades to meet demands due to the degradation of expertise and lore needed to make baneblades, so many baneblades are made with less advanced systems, or Macharius Heavy Tanks are made instead.

Also, in sheer terms of territory..... the Imperium is losing to its enemies. You are constantly hearing about worlds being lost to the tyranids, lost to chaos, being cut off by warp storms, etc. Sure, occasionally there is a resurgence (the most notable being when Lord Solar Macharius actually managed to push out the borders of the Imperium and actually gain territory) but the overall theme is of a once mighty empire succumbing to a slow decline brought about by stagnation, ignorance and hordes of alien gribblies.

Catt
07-03-2014, 15:37
To be honest it comes down to the most populous and expansionist races.

Assuming the Tyranids really have consumed thousands of galaxies then it’s very hard to see them being defeated in the Milky Way.

Even if the Eldar race is reborn through the birth of Ynnead in the warp and they are free to unleash their full psychic potential again their numbers would still be thin. Unless this leads to them being able to strengthen and expand the webway and regain their lost technology from the Black Library (whilst maintaining their current discipline). If that were the case I could see the Eldar persisting in an effective alternative dimension. The effect of shadow in the warp from a full on Tyranid invasion would be potentially problematic for them though.

However, they still most likely couldn’t defeat the Tyranids outright. We don’t know a huge amount about what High-Eldar technology was truly capable of but I wonder if one tactic the Eldar might use is wiping out entire solar systems to deny them bio-mass. I also wonder whether unfettered Eldar pyskers could disrupt Tyranid synapse creatures effectively.

I guess you have a similar end game with the Imperium and the possible ascension of the Emperor.

Haskear
10-03-2014, 21:43
I don't think enough is known about the nids to really know why they have arrived in the Milky Way, yes the consume everything, barring the necrons, but their goal is not clear, we like to think of them as the locust like plague arriving to consume everything and move on, but what if they are running from something, looking for something, just passing through. Who knows? Chaos will never manage it as each of the gods will undermine the others to be supreme. The orcs possibly but I believe they have fail safe every waaaagh eventually ends in huge disaster, almost deliberately to stop orcs exponentially reproducing.
Just some thoughts and ideas!

=Angel=
11-03-2014, 02:23
The novel 'Wolf of ash and fire' makes it clear that xe haven't seen what orks are capable of in 40k. In this novel they had constructed a false world out of scrap and had 'Robocop' style orks- think meganobz with only eyeballs and a brainstem- everything else artificial.

If left to their own devices orks could certainly rule the galaxy.
They'd just do it in smaller parts ruled by individual warlords

Chalkfour
11-03-2014, 12:52
"... in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only WAAAGH!"

I've always enjoyed the idea of Tyranids fleeing from a far greater threat from another galaxy. Sometimes it does seem like they're fighting out of desperation(some more than others)in order to get bio-mass.

Haskear
27-03-2014, 21:25
Also chaos couldn't do it, the 4 couldn't cope with working together not mention the minor deities. I always think that if the heresy had succeeded endless wars would have waged between the primarchs and their chosen gods.

Quicky
28-03-2014, 00:43
The Squats will rise again......(ask the old en's if you don't know what they are)

Haskear
28-03-2014, 21:56
The Human Emperor mysteriously dies in his throne leaving humanity scattered and fragile...

A massive Tyranid multiple Hive fleet invasion drawn be an unknown beacon will give birth to a massive Ork Waaghh moving towards it, dealing a massive crippling blow to the hivemind that will change it's plans and making it leave the galaxy towards a more easy prey (smaller galaxy), the Orks will go extinct...

The Tau tech advances quickly and manages to copy some of the necron super tech with some convenient findings, they quicky become the most technological advanced race in the galaxy, the only thing they dont master is FTL travel. The Eldar are forced to join the Tau empire to provide for FTL via the webway....

Tau procede to wipeout the last of humanity and destroying all Necron Tombs, they become masters of the galaxy, since they have residual warp presence, Chaos his weakened and quickly the Tau expell them from the material world forever...

Finally the Tau only need to learn the secrets of FTL from the Eldar so they can ride themselves of that final nuissance, but in an instant all Tau in the Galaxy revert to their feral behaviours. The pheromones of the ethereals cease to function...and the long term plan of the Eldar Seers and Dark Eldar Haemoncolous comes into being and the Eldar race returns to it's rightfull place in the galaxy.... ;)

I voted Chaos :)

The emperor dying potentially means his rebirth as the most powerful warp being there is, worshiped by countless billions, way more that worship or even know about the chaos gods. With him he would bring the dead loyal primarchs and the return of the lost primarchs which are all venerated as saints by the countless billions which would make for a pretty potent combo to then lead the countless billions. The alternative to the astronomican just going off and the imperium being wiped out

twinsword
28-03-2014, 23:53
i think that the nids will eat and grow, eat and grow untill they get to big to support theamselfs and start to starv and the resistenst that still exist migth be to much for theam. the imperium of man will get stomped on but not sure that they will get completly destroyed. Orks wont go away but they will never "dominate" snice they will be busy figthing oneanother. Tau will get wiped from the planets and will most likely do what the eldar did and become a space faring nation, necrons will probly just take a vacation with most life in the glaxsy destroyed by the nids, eldar migth just die or stay alive we will never know, chaos will be weakend snice if theire are less humans that worship theam they will be forced to stay along the eye of terror and maby even the warp as a whole will be weakend. so i guess the once who will take control will not be from the galaxsy

twinsword
29-03-2014, 00:00
I will rule

twinsword
29-03-2014, 00:12
What if we are wrong about the nids maby they did not move away from thiere galaxsy by choice rather they were forced out by some unkown race. Maby the nids hade planets befor that produce food and they are only cosuming worlds atm cus they are on the run and fear if they try and rebuild the big bad motherfrakers hunting theam will find theam and destroy theam