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Kelso
15-01-2014, 20:42
Hi All, I have seen a few references to the 40K army tiers. Just out of curiosity, what are the current army book tier standings? I'm interested in seeing where my armies sit, and how my success matches up to army tiers.

Thanks!

Ssilmath
15-01-2014, 20:46
This isn't a good time to be asking this question. With a recent army release, you're going to have no data about performance in either tournament or casual play, just a lot of people trying to inject their opinions. I'd recommend looking around for recent tournament results to give you an idea how your armies perform in a competitive environment. In a casual environment, I don't think that tiers really factor into things.

Spiney Norman
15-01-2014, 21:08
Hi All, I have seen a few references to the 40K army tiers. Just out of curiosity, what are the current army book tier standings? I'm interested in seeing where my armies sit, and how my success matches up to army tiers.

Thanks!

Generally speaking,

Top Tier: Tau & Eldar - both are universally strong and have stand-out overpowered builds on top of this

Tier 2: Chaos Marines, Necrons, Grey Knights, Daemons

Tier 3: Space Marines, Dark Eldar, Imperial Guard, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Orks

Tier 4:

Tier 5: Adepta Sororities

I've left Tier 4 blank just to show what a huge gap there is between sisters and all the other armies, in reality tier 2 & 3 are pretty close together, its the stand-out builds like hell drake spam, scythe spam and screamerstar that elevate those armies above the pack. Tau and Eldar are just all kinds of filth. I haven't included Tyranids because its simply too early to tell where their new codex will be and everyone is still in the mass-hysteria stage in any case. I'd say Old Nids were probably the sole occupants of Tier 4.

A.T.
15-01-2014, 21:18
I'd say Old Nids were probably the sole occupants of Tier 4.Didn't a pure nid list win adepticon last year?

With about half the top 16 being some variation of crons with allies. That was 10 months ago though.

OuroborosTriumphant
15-01-2014, 21:28
I'm broadly in agreement with Spiney Norman, but here are my rankings

Tier 0: Eldar (Seer Council), Daemons (Screamer Star)
Tier 1: Tau, Eldar (other than Seer Council)
Tier 2: Chaos Space Marines (making heavy use of the helldrake), Necrons, Grey Knights, Daemons (other than Screamer Star)
Tier 3: Imperial Guard, Space Marines
Tier 4: Chaos Space Marines (not making heavy use of the helldrake), Blood Angels, Dark Angels
Tier 5: Orks, Space Wolves, Dark Eldar
Tier 6: Adepta Sororitas

Spiney Norman
15-01-2014, 21:32
Didn't a pure nid list win adepticon last year?

With about half the top 16 being some variation of crons with allies. That was 10 months ago though.

Dunno, I wasn't there. This is just my perception from playing games at a casual level, I'm rolled bids over most times I've played them, even with my sisters.

Still Standing
15-01-2014, 21:32
I am surprised people rate Marines so low. They mess other Marines up something rotten. Spam 3 bikes with 2 Grav Guns and a Combi-Grav for 101 points... It's filthy. Really messes up my Legion list anyway!

Spiney Norman
15-01-2014, 21:39
I am surprised people rate Marines so low. They mess other Marines up something rotten. Spam 3 bikes with 2 Grav Guns and a Combi-Grav for 101 points... It's filthy. Really messes up my Legion list anyway!

Its not helldrake/screamerstar/scythespam filthy, and thats what T2 is about

H3L!X
02-09-2015, 14:04
Hey Guys, sorry for the threadomancy, i think better than starting a new one :)

But....
How would you put the armys by now?

Spiney Norman
02-09-2015, 14:09
Hey Guys, sorry for the threadomancy, i think better than starting a new one :)

But....
How would you put the armys by now?

Something like this

Eldar
-
Necrons
-
Space Marines
Dark Angels
-
-
-
-
-
Other armies with proper codexes
-
-
-
-
-
Sisters of battle

Still Standing
02-09-2015, 14:40
To expand upon that a bit.

Eldar
-
Necrons
-
Space Marines
Mechanicus (40k)
Mechanicum (30k)
Dark Angels
-
Legiones Astartes Crusade List (30k)
Daemonkin Khorne
-
-
Other armies with proper codexes
-
-
-
-
-
Sisters of battle

Spiney Norman
02-09-2015, 15:48
Interesting SS, but do you commonly play 30k armies against 40k ones? We tend to operate them almost as separate game systems, if only because the AoD force org chart is so rigid compared to what currently passes as army-building regs in 40k.

Still Standing
02-09-2015, 16:14
I've played against more 40k armies than 30k ones, with both Mechanicum and Legiones Astartes lists. 30k has some flexability with the Rites of War and alternate FoCs, but obviously nowhere near the flexability most 40k armies have. The main advantage 40k armies have though is scoring units everywhere. 30k has one thing in its favour though - immense firepower. I just wish more Marine players would recognise how much of a huge thing ATSKNF is.

totgeboren
02-09-2015, 17:44
I've played against more 40k armies than 30k ones, with both Mechanicum and Legiones Astartes lists. 30k has some flexability with the Rites of War and alternate FoCs, but obviously nowhere near the flexability most 40k armies have. The main advantage 40k armies have though is scoring units everywhere. 30k has one thing in its favour though - immense firepower. I just wish more Marine players would recognise how much of a huge thing ATSKNF is.

It's kinda funny. When CSM players try the Legion list, they go like "Omg these guys are crazy!" and when SM players try they are like "Meh, I dunno they feel kinda weak."
A difference in reference frame to say the least. :p

Greavous
03-09-2015, 10:43
so using the current given standings of the armies are they specific lsits or the army as a whole? would that list change if i said make 1 lsit for the codex as a whole and 1 list for a specific army list?

why are sisters so weak? lack of a good codex? lack of units? can they actually be good if played correctly or more down to luck.
also someone in another thread was saying CSM suck at the moment?

Tonberry
03-09-2015, 10:47
Given how much people seem to hate on them, I'd say full Imperial Knight armies should be pretty up there.

Karhedron
03-09-2015, 10:52
Given how much people seem to hate on them, I'd say full Imperial Knight armies should be pretty up there.

Pure Knight armies are the worst example of rock-paper-scissors play. They totally roflstomp armies that struggle against heavy vehicles while being vulnerable to armies that are strong against vehicles. Necrons and some flavours of Eldar would likely reduce Knights to scrap metal on short order. Orks would likely be shredded by the Knights unless using a very carefully tailored list.

In short, Knights tend to win or lose big time with little scope for anything in between.

Karhedron
03-09-2015, 11:11
so using the current given standings of the armies are they specific lsits or the army as a whole? would that list change if i said make 1 lsit for the codex as a whole and 1 list for a specific army list?

The Necron Decurion is so strong because of its resilience. It is strong against infantry with massed firepower and strong against tanks thanks to the Gauss rule. Even in assault it is not too shabby as they are so darned hard to kill. They also have a few decent CC units like Lychgard, Flayed Ones and Wraiths which are enough to stop opponents simply tarpitting them.

You can try to kill them but half of them simply get up again each time and all the while they are chipping away at the enemy. The only real hard counters are Eldar with lots of SD weapons and armies that can break Necrons in assault. Running down fleeing I2 units is one of the few ways to efficiently put them down and keep them down.

Eldar have a strong codex with lots of formations that provide useful bonuses for little effort. Seerstar is good. A Warhost composing windriders and Wraithknights is pretty hard to beat. It may win games but is best reserved for Tournament play as it will not win you many friends.

Marines and Dark Angels can play the freebie game as certain formations give free transports. This can be (ab)used to potentially give a lot of free vehicles, all with ObjSec. I have seen lists around the 1850 point mark that include around 500 points of free vehicles.

To my mind, the current Tier 1 codices are those that feature the new army composition structure first pioneered by the Necron Decurion. People may argue about which is the most powerful but they are all in a different league to earlier codices and any one of them can build a tournament winning list.

A.T.
03-09-2015, 12:09
why are sisters so weak? lack of a good codex? lack of units? can they actually be good if played correctly or more down to luck.The current sisters would have been a decent but very limited army back around the start of 5th edition. They just lack a lot of tools - not only newer stuff like flyers/skyfire/precision shots but fundamentals like blast weapons or any control over deployment or reserves beyond a single scouting unit.

Some good basic stuff - meltas, rhinos, 3+, but beyond that they don't really have anything. Most of their old unique selling points have gone to other armies and/or been lost entirely - all they really have left to themselves are the repentia.

The sisters suffer in comparisons, there is increasingly little they can do that someone else can't do better.

Still Standing
03-09-2015, 12:15
Some good basic stuff - meltas, rhinos, 3+, but beyond that they don't really have anything. Most of their old unique selling points have gone to other armies and/or been lost entirely - all they really have left to themselves are the repentia.

Repentia were the worst unit in the game under the previous codex. Therefore it was obvious that GW would nerf them.

A.T.
03-09-2015, 12:47
Repentia were the worst unit in the game under the previous codex.They were at least unique.

Compared to the celestians (grey hunter prices for most definitely not grey hunters), the command squad (marine command squad prices for most definitely not a marine command squad), the multimelta immolator (twice the cost of the identical melta razorback), the canoness w/rosarius (marine captain cost for - well you get the idea)...

Even the WD priest was a gimpy version of the 5e ed guard priest. The ebook may have taken a few steps back in places but it's still an improvement over that rushed-out piece of crap.

gwarsh41
03-09-2015, 15:45
I would put the top 3 at

Eldar, Necrons Daemons/Space Marines.

Daemons are tied with SM because with as many crazy shenanigans as they have. Knights are still very difficult to deal with.

Spiney Norman
03-09-2015, 16:16
so using the current given standings of the armies are they specific lsits or the army as a whole? would that list change if i said make 1 lsit for the codex as a whole and 1 list for a specific army list?

why are sisters so weak? lack of a good codex? lack of units? can they actually be good if played correctly or more down to luck.
also someone in another thread was saying CSM suck at the moment?

Sisters have serious issues with their codex, it is one of the older codexes anyway and it wasn't really competitive when it was released. The codex itself has very few choices in it, no formations and probably half the units in the book are so bad as to be unusable. They have a few decent tricks (melta squads that can ignore cover saves once per game & the priest conclave) but with only one worthwhile choice in each slot, a single below par troop option and no native anti-air source they are fundamentally under-equipped to play in the current edition of 40k.

cuda1179
03-09-2015, 17:57
My experiences are a little different.

Tier 1: Eldar, Tau

Tier2. Space Marines, Dark Angels, Necron , Imperial Knights, Space Wolves,

Tier3: Chaos Marines, Chaos Deamons, Dark Eldar, Orks, Blood Angels, Imperial Guard, Grey Knights

Tier4: Tyranids

Tier5: Sisters of Battle


Teirs 2 and 3 are pretty close, almost a blurred line. As for Tyranids, if you only use what is in the codex, they boarder on dropping to Tier 5. With the additional units they got a couple years ago in White dwarf, they boarder on crossing into Tier 3. I guess adding in some drop-pods can make slow assault creatures somewhat useful.

Sister definitely need some help. Even if all they do was bring their transports into line price-wise with Space Marines, then did a 10% price drop for all other units it would at least give them a chance. Right now they are simply a ruined army.