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rocdocta
24-01-2014, 02:49
I am considering just playing a game that has the synapse and IB mechanic removed. no fearless and no retarded IB tables. It will either

1. prove that fearless is basically a useless and over rated mechanic for nids whilst giving me normal control over an army

or

2. my nids will be fleeing off the table from being shot or from combat so fast that I will be crying and begging to use synapse and IB.

Should be an interesting match. Anyone else interested in trying this just to see what happens?

Sternguard777
24-01-2014, 02:53
I feel the poor leadership of most of your units will lead to a lot of running away. Also your psychic powers would basically lose a power. And you invented another reason not to never take the norn crown.

gLOBS
24-01-2014, 04:48
You should add to the list of testing synapse without IB. After how much can we learn if we don't try all avenues?

rocdocta
24-01-2014, 05:34
You should add to the list of testing synapse without IB. After how much can we learn if we don't try all avenues?

True this would be a way of testing all possibilities, but should there be some kind of thing to balance out fearless? even a slight one. Maybe fearless but every point you fail by its an armour save? yeah I know...I know...its the older edition rule. I would rather no damage from fearless too. Just trying to make it fair but still have direction over the army.

bork da basher
24-01-2014, 08:57
my group have begun testing a few ways to curb IB and synapse. so far this has been our favourite replacement out of several we've tried.

Synapse.
all non synapse units in range of a synapse creature may use it's leadership value for any test required to use it. if several synapse creatures are in range, chose the highest LD value to use. models outside of synapse range must use their own LD value.

Instinctive behavior
ignored.

we've found this affects the army in several ways, all of which for the better in our opinion.

1) synapse web is no longer the be all and end all. this opens up list building massively as you don't HAVE to spend all your points on synapse creatures. it's still pretty vital to have something to lead the gants/gaunts with their low LD value but it means you can actually build lists that don't nerf themselves and means flying/burrowing/infiltrating lists don't require a flyrant tax to operate. ie you can take what you WANT not what you NEED to play effectively.

2) dominion is no longer a MUST have power and frees up psykers to make use of the whole table rather than always taking dominion +1 other power. still a useful power for swarm armies.

3) allows units to reliably hold objectives. without losing function outside of synapse range you can now send units to capture and hold objectives effectively. this is something the new dex simply doesn't allow you to do.

4) gets rid of annoying grinding tarpit combats involving large broods and encourages you to use biomorphs that might help you do more damage. winning the combat is now more important.

5) deployment and movement during the game is a lot more spread out. your own units don't impede you as much and you're not such easy meat for blast/template attacks because of it. you aren't forced to fight inside a bubble of synapse.

6) you are still encouraged to take larger broods because morale is now an issue.

7) reserves can now be taken advantage of without synapse '***** them in the 'A'.

8) tervigon becomes more viable as a backfield gaunt pooper and swarmlord is now useful again as reserves can be a thing again, he can take 3 powers instead of 2+dominion.

9) you can actually spend points on special characters without synapse now.


there is probably many more benefits but we've only played 3 games with it and the nid player won 2 of those games (using the codex as is, in over 30 games nids won once, barely)
the difference was immense. they were in fact feckin' scary to face. without the reliance on synapse you can be very creative with your lists and playstyle and in all 3 games it was a close thing. each game was decided on points rather than the game getting called when synapse went down and using this mechanic nids are now amazing at capturing objectives. try and move 20 gaunts in a ruin, with a venomthrope giving them shrouded, in a hurry. not going to happen.

without the crippling effects of synapse and IB the nids book is actually pretty good. it plays as its meant to, a horde of bugs with a few dirty tricks to keep you guessing.

we'll have a few more games with it then go through the book with a look at houseruling the special rules for specific entries that synapse would affect.

anyone who is interested i recommend trying it out as a houserule and see the benefits for yourself. it's sad that we've had to go to so much effort to do this just to keep our tyranid player from quitting the game altogether.

A.T.
24-01-2014, 09:33
Without fearless? A bunch of rhinos, trukks, and other light vehicles will drive directly towards your lines with the intention of tank-shocking everything off the board, and they have good odds of doing just that.

bork da basher
24-01-2014, 09:55
Without fearless? A bunch of rhinos, trukks, and other light vehicles will drive directly towards your lines with the intention of tank-shocking everything off the board, and they have good odds of doing just that.

this is why it should be changed not gotten rid of entirely. the changes i talk about above still make synapse important without it being the limitation it is now. even if it was abolished and gaunts had to rely on their own leadership i can't honestly see that tactic being employed in a serious way. get anywhere near a nid army with light vehicles like that and they'll be set upon by the fast elements, flyers etc right away and destroyed, you're probably just giving them first blood and throwing away points. a savvy player would see it coming a mile away.

Fear Ghoul
24-01-2014, 10:43
my group have begun testing a few ways to curb IB and synapse. so far this has been our favourite replacement out of several we've tried.

Synapse.
all non synapse units in range of a synapse creature may use it's leadership value for any test required to use it. if several synapse creatures are in range, chose the highest LD value to use. models outside of synapse range must use their own LD value.

Instinctive behavior
ignored.

we've found this affects the army in several ways, all of which for the better in our opinion.

1) synapse web is no longer the be all and end all. this opens up list building massively as you don't HAVE to spend all your points on synapse creatures. it's still pretty vital to have something to lead the gants/gaunts with their low LD value but it means you can actually build lists that don't nerf themselves and means flying/burrowing/infiltrating lists don't require a flyrant tax to operate. ie you can take what you WANT not what you NEED to play effectively.

2) dominion is no longer a MUST have power and frees up psykers to make use of the whole table rather than always taking dominion +1 other power. still a useful power for swarm armies.

3) allows units to reliably hold objectives. without losing function outside of synapse range you can now send units to capture and hold objectives effectively. this is something the new dex simply doesn't allow you to do.

4) gets rid of annoying grinding tarpit combats involving large broods and encourages you to use biomorphs that might help you do more damage. winning the combat is now more important.

5) deployment and movement during the game is a lot more spread out. your own units don't impede you as much and you're not such easy meat for blast/template attacks because of it. you aren't forced to fight inside a bubble of synapse.

6) you are still encouraged to take larger broods because morale is now an issue.

7) reserves can now be taken advantage of without synapse '***** them in the 'A'.

8) tervigon becomes more viable as a backfield gaunt pooper and swarmlord is now useful again as reserves can be a thing again, he can take 3 powers instead of 2+dominion.

9) you can actually spend points on special characters without synapse now.


there is probably many more benefits but we've only played 3 games with it and the nid player won 2 of those games (using the codex as is, in over 30 games nids won once, barely)
the difference was immense. they were in fact feckin' scary to face. without the reliance on synapse you can be very creative with your lists and playstyle and in all 3 games it was a close thing. each game was decided on points rather than the game getting called when synapse went down and using this mechanic nids are now amazing at capturing objectives. try and move 20 gaunts in a ruin, with a venomthrope giving them shrouded, in a hurry. not going to happen.

without the crippling effects of synapse and IB the nids book is actually pretty good. it plays as its meant to, a horde of bugs with a few dirty tricks to keep you guessing.

we'll have a few more games with it then go through the book with a look at houseruling the special rules for specific entries that synapse would affect.

anyone who is interested i recommend trying it out as a houserule and see the benefits for yourself. it's sad that we've had to go to so much effort to do this just to keep our tyranid player from quitting the game altogether.

I fail to see how this change to Synapse is better in any way. All you are doing is substituting Fearless with Ld 8 - 10, meaning that you will invariably fail morale and pinning checks where before you wouldn't. Furthermore Tyranid creatures outside Synapse are not affected in any meaningful way and continue to act as normal, which is a gross violation of the background and theme of the army.

Grocklock
24-01-2014, 11:07
We played a game last night with out synapse. And got to say the result is bland.
What does removing synapse and IB. My 25 gaunts unit where shot and then proceeded to flee the table. Yes my hive tyrant went on to distroy a land raider and run down a terminator unit. And the game was a draw. But my poor gaunts where kind of dull. My hormagaunts crossed into a 2 tac squards and fled. Cut down but if I had fearless hey would of been able to grind.

That's what nids are to me they play different from other armies which is refreshing. There a really good grinding army, get stuck in and then slowly drain them, while my combat units finish units off.

Also with out synapse I don't think I was playing a swarm. It felt more like a standard army. Which is fun don't get me wrong but it didn't feel right. And bland really.

But then again I like animosity. It's part of the army. Can it fail me yes but so do 1+ saves. Plan well and you will be fine.

Grocklock
24-01-2014, 11:15
I fail to see how this change to Synapse is better in any way. All you are doing is substituting Fearless with Ld 8 - 10, meaning that you will invariably fail morale and pinning checks where before you wouldn't. Furthermore Tyranid creatures outside Synapse are not affected in any meaningful way and continue to act as normal, which is a gross violation of the background and theme of the army.

I cannot agree more with this change my gaunts are just cheep gaunts with out guns.

As always nids are not the easy win button like some other armies. It will take you time to learn it.
I don't know if people have noticed that lictors are fixed. My lictors first turn infiltrated into the woods on flank of opponents army. Second turn my prime and raveners turned up next to it and wiped out a heavy weapons platton. And began rolling some guard plattons.

Minsc
24-01-2014, 11:36
What would happen if we played as though IB and synapse just didnt exist?

Your opponent would rub his hands in glee, and then make sure that all your non-fearless units would flee off the table on turn 1.

bork da basher
24-01-2014, 12:40
I fail to see how this change to Synapse is better in any way. All you are doing is substituting Fearless with Ld 8 - 10, meaning that you will invariably fail morale and pinning checks where before you wouldn't. Furthermore Tyranid creatures outside Synapse are not affected in any meaningful way and continue to act as normal, which is a gross violation of the background and theme of the army.

no, its not just substituting fearless for LD8-10. its giving you the ability to operate OUTSIDE of synapse without IB checks. it allows the army to deploy and move however it likes. yes you still have to support your grunts with some synapse for the extra leadership (which makes them work the same as any other unit in the game in terms of morale) but you can now spread your force and play tactically rather than bubble up in the most boring and restrictive way possible just so your army doesn't run or kill itself. it still maintains fluff that the low leadership units are led by synapse but without the ridiculous need to remain within a short distance to actually work at all.

when you've tried it, feel free to criticize it but this is something we've actually played through and tested, im merely reporting the results as i found them. if you think any of the 9 points i made from actual observations during the games are not valid or wouldn't improve on the current codex playstyle then suggest a better alternative. we're trying to find a middle ground between synapse/IB as is and them not existing at all :) this was one of a number of things we tried and what we found to work the best. we're only houseruling it so we don't lose a player in our group, i'm not suggesting we petition GW to change the codex (like it would work) simply deleting the rules makes the army dull, at least this way you can still play with an element of the fluff but without the crippling restrictions the current rules impose on you.

Retrospectus
24-01-2014, 12:56
why do people complain so much about being forced to take synapse creatures in their list? hasn't that been the case since the very beginning?

HereComesTomorrow
24-01-2014, 13:44
why do people complain so much about being forced to take synapse creatures in their list? hasn't that been the case since the very beginning?

It has, and people complaining about it I can only assume have only been playing since 5th Ed if they don't know how to use synapse without two flyrants and two tervigons.

In my games so far synapse hasn't been an issue until turn 4 or 5, at which point I had already done the damage and the game was won.

I don't understand how people have trouble hiding a zoanthrope or naked warrior unit away behind cover for the opponent to forget about. Its not like they're expensive.

Fear Ghoul
24-01-2014, 13:46
It has, and people complaining about it I can only assume have only been playing since 5th Ed if they don't know how to use synapse without two flyrants and two tervigons.

In my games so far synapse hasn't been an issue until turn 4 or 5, at which point I had already done the damage and the game was won.

I don't understand how people have trouble hiding a zoanthrope or naked warrior unit away behind cover for the opponent to forget about. Its not like they're expensive.

Maybe because that would require more skill?

T10
24-01-2014, 14:17
I am considering just playing a game that has the synapse and IB mechanic removed. no fearless and no retarded IB tables. It will either

1. prove that fearless is basically a useless and over rated mechanic for nids whilst giving me normal control over an army

or

2. my nids will be fleeing off the table from being shot or from combat so fast that I will be crying and begging to use synapse and IB.

Should be an interesting match. Anyone else interested in trying this just to see what happens?

I can only speak for myself, and no.

However, it will take about 5 man-hours for you and your friend to play a 2.5 hour game. Do it.

-T10

rocdocta
24-01-2014, 14:18
why do people complain so much about being forced to take synapse creatures in their list? hasn't that been the case since the very beginning?

no it has not.

Dont forget that in the editions that required synapse, there were targetting rules to ensure that synapse nodes couldnt be targetted. you litterally couldnt target any unit that was further away from the closest unit to the fireer. terrain could not be seen through. Now its just target priority.

Fear Ghoul
24-01-2014, 14:21
no it has not.

Dont forget that in the editions that required synapse, there were targetting rules to ensure that synapse nodes couldnt be targetted. you litterally couldnt target any unit that was further away from the closest unit to the fireer. terrain could not be seen through. Now its just target priority.

I can't remember the rules for 3rd edition, but in 4th you could if you passed a Ld test.

rocdocta
24-01-2014, 14:25
It has, and people complaining about it I can only assume have only been playing since 5th Ed if they don't know how to use synapse without two flyrants and two tervigons.

In my games so far synapse hasn't been an issue until turn 4 or 5, at which point I had already done the damage and the game was won.

I don't understand how people have trouble hiding a zoanthrope or naked warrior unit away behind cover for the opponent to forget about. Its not like they're expensive.

This is why assumptions just make you look uninformed. Played nids as main army since 1994. IB is a poor rule that gives so little at the cost of so much. Most competitve players such as myself remember a time where gaunts were the killers and rivalled genestealers for impact. We actually remember a time when stealers were feared and counter measures werent just take a step back so your unit is in a shrubbery...

Good oppo players dont "just forget about synapse units". Maybe thats why you think its a good rule. my oppos erase the synapse where required.

rocdocta
24-01-2014, 14:32
my group have begun testing a few ways to curb IB and synapse. so far this has been our favourite replacement out of several we've tried.

Synapse.
all non synapse units in range of a synapse creature may use it's leadership value for any test required to use it. if several synapse creatures are in range, chose the highest LD value to use. models outside of synapse range must use their own LD value.

Instinctive behavior
ignored.



i really like this as it is an elegant solution. I am sure the kiddies may prefer the pew pew pew of the easy win vs nids and IB rules but this way you can do things with your army and not be dictated to by average experience players. which is synapse? ok i will kill him. and then him and then them. Oh your army is now either fleeing or not shooting? in that case i will kill that unit and then this unit. good game.

It makes me smile when players swear by fluff being the guide for rules and codexs. The fluff is just poorly written fiction by hacks and done to get you excited and sell more models. Think of it as nerd foreplay.

Blinder
24-01-2014, 14:45
no it has not.

Dont forget that in the editions that required synapse, there were targetting rules to ensure that synapse nodes couldnt be targetted. you litterally couldnt target any unit that was further away from the closest unit to the fireer. terrain could not be seen through. Now its just target priority.

Of course, Tyranids had a rule overriding that so gaunts/gants at least were of no use blocking shots to synapse, and in 4th you could even test to shoot past a Carnifex that might be trying to tank.

Charistoph
24-01-2014, 15:27
Of course, Tyranids had a rule overriding that so gaunts/gants at least were of no use blocking shots to synapse, and in 4th you could even test to shoot past a Carnifex that might be trying to tank.

Well, it didn't work for the Monstrous Creatures with Synapse, but it wold work for the Warriors and Zoanthropes, I thought. Of course, Zoanthropes had to choose between being Synapse and being able to mind blast things, if I remember right.

Blinder
24-01-2014, 15:42
Pretty sure in 3rd at least warriors and zoans where fair game as well... not sure about the zoans having to pick though, the most I remember about them was that they had to pick between "being used" and "not having their heads fall off." All I really remember about 4th ed 'nids was that they were annoying as hell with EW everywhere (though from what I remember of 4th it felt like *everyone* was getting EW all over the place).

Ssilmath
24-01-2014, 15:45
Page 6 of the third ed codex:

Shoot the Big Ones - "Due to this, an opposing players line of fire is only blocked by terrain, vehicles and models in close combat. Other than this, he can freely choose to direct fire from his units at any Tyranid brood that is within range during the shooting phase."

T10
24-01-2014, 15:59
Back then models were concealed (invisible!) if they were behind models half their own height.

Reinholt
24-01-2014, 16:48
I don't understand how people have trouble hiding a zoanthrope or naked warrior unit away behind cover for the opponent to forget about. Its not like they're expensive.

Maybe it's because not everyone plays against opponents who consistently play poorly and make sub-optimal decisions? I can beat most players, with most armies, if the other guy sucks at the game. I don't like relying on strategies that require my opponents to fail or be bad at the game; when you hit a good opponent, you auto-lose.

In my group, which is fairly competitive, though not over the top (some of us have either won tournaments or done very well in the past, but we don't usually bring those lists to our games with friends), the 'Nids have not won a game yet with the new codex. This includes games where we are swapping armies or brainstorming strategies. The core issue is that all of us understand to wipe the synapse off the table as fast as humanly possible, or spread out so that you don't have enough of a synapse web to cover the field. Currently the only 'Nid lists we can field that even manage to make semi-competitive games happen are double flyrant / tervigon or double flyrant / multiple min warrior squads. Even those get absolutely annihilated when played against other strong lists.

dr_scitt
25-01-2014, 12:51
no it has not.

Dont forget that in the editions that required synapse, there were targetting rules to ensure that synapse nodes couldnt be targetted. you litterally couldnt target any unit that was further away from the closest unit to the fireer. terrain could not be seen through. Now its just target priority.

Not true, synapse and other large creatures were precisely the reason for the "shoot the big ones" rule in the second edition Tyanid codex. Third had no tests and fourth was a simple leadership test to ignore the nearest unit (and was a standard 40k rule).

dr_scitt
25-01-2014, 13:05
This is why assumptions just make you look uninformed. Played nids as main army since 1994. IB is a poor rule that gives so little at the cost of so much. Most competitve players such as myself remember a time where gaunts were the killers and rivalled genestealers for impact. We actually remember a time when stealers were feared and counter measures werent just take a step back so your unit is in a shrubbery...

Good oppo players dont "just forget about synapse units". Maybe thats why you think its a good rule. my oppos erase the synapse where required.

Second edition was a very different time though, when displacer fields and vortex grenades were about and characters devastated armies. You can't compare the two editions, but even then, losing synapse was very bad, as your then ld5 gaunts were still easy to break. The loss of synapse being a bad thing has always been a consistent part of the Tyranid army design.

gwarsh41
25-01-2014, 15:58
I feel the poor leadership of most of your units will lead to a lot of running away.

Yup! I recently fought nids, had a bloodthirster tied up with some 15 gaunts, would have easily swept them after the first round, as combat was in my favor by 6.
Plus, then nids would have to take leadership when 25% of the unit is wiped out, which would probably hit them hard. PLUS they would have to take fear tests when fighting MCs and daemons.

Nids not being fearless would hit them really hard.

Spiney Norman
25-01-2014, 16:08
It has, and people complaining about it I can only assume have only been playing since 5th Ed if they don't know how to use synapse without two flyrants and two tervigons.

In my games so far synapse hasn't been an issue until turn 4 or 5, at which point I had already done the damage and the game was won.

I don't understand how people have trouble hiding a zoanthrope or naked warrior unit away behind cover for the opponent to forget about. Its not like they're expensive.

Because when your opponent understands that all he has to do to win the game is kill all the synapse creatures and he's not stupid or blind enough to forget which creatures those are you're going to have trouble. It wouldn't be so bad if most synapse creatures could actually join units for protection, they all have massive target signs on their heads, and other than the prime, no way to hide.

Synapse is a great and characterful rule, but having it so that your army just dissolves into nothing when outside of its range is just too harsh a penalty imo.

Fear Ghoul
25-01-2014, 16:24
no, its not just substituting fearless for LD8-10. its giving you the ability to operate OUTSIDE of synapse without IB checks. it allows the army to deploy and move however it likes. yes you still have to support your grunts with some synapse for the extra leadership (which makes them work the same as any other unit in the game in terms of morale) but you can now spread your force and play tactically rather than bubble up in the most boring and restrictive way possible just so your army doesn't run or kill itself. it still maintains fluff that the low leadership units are led by synapse but without the ridiculous need to remain within a short distance to actually work at all.

That's all very well and good except those units of gaunts outside of synpase are going to fleet at the first sight of any meaningful firepower, and losing combat even slightly will likely crush them utterly. So what's the advantage of this change again?


This is why assumptions just make you look uninformed. Played nids as main army since 1994. IB is a poor rule that gives so little at the cost of so much. Most competitve players such as myself remember a time where gaunts were the killers and rivalled genestealers for impact. We actually remember a time when stealers were feared and counter measures werent just take a step back so your unit is in a shrubbery...

Maybe something was really wrong with the codex where the Troops choices were as elite as the Elite choices.


Good oppo players dont "just forget about synapse units". Maybe thats why you think its a good rule. my oppos erase the synapse where required.

Presumably this also happened in 5th edition, in which case you would have lost all your games then as well.


It makes me smile when players swear by fluff being the guide for rules and codexs. The fluff is just poorly written fiction by hacks and done to get you excited and sell more models. Think of it as nerd foreplay.

Why are you playing this game again?


Maybe it's because not everyone plays against opponents who consistently play poorly and make sub-optimal decisions? I can beat most players, with most armies, if the other guy sucks at the game. I don't like relying on strategies that require my opponents to fail or be bad at the game; when you hit a good opponent, you auto-lose.

Turning this around, perhaps it is the Tyranid whiners that are the poor players, and they need to learn how to play their army correctly? But seriously, are you really complaining that Tyranids only stack up well when enemy armies don't use their most overpowered options?


In my group, which is fairly competitive, though not over the top (some of us have either won tournaments or done very well in the past, but we don't usually bring those lists to our games with friends), the 'Nids have not won a game yet with the new codex. This includes games where we are swapping armies or brainstorming strategies. The core issue is that all of us understand to wipe the synapse off the table as fast as humanly possible, or spread out so that you don't have enough of a synapse web to cover the field. Currently the only 'Nid lists we can field that even manage to make semi-competitive games happen are double flyrant / tervigon or double flyrant / multiple min warrior squads. Even those get absolutely annihilated when played against other strong lists.

The ability to stand up against strong lists should never be taken as a sign of success of a codex. When all codexes try to match the best, you end up with power creep, which I was under the strange impression nobody here wanted.

Retrospectus
25-01-2014, 20:16
How would you feel about warrior squads being like wolf guard and warlocks? so you buy a squad, kit them up for whatever squad they're joining, and split them up to hide in your blobs. it would make melee warriors viable seeing as you can hide them behind 30 hormagaunts to allow them to actually get to combat.

bork da basher
25-01-2014, 22:33
Quote Originally Posted by bork da basher View Post
no, its not just substituting fearless for LD8-10. its giving you the ability to operate OUTSIDE of synapse without IB checks. it allows the army to deploy and move however it likes. yes you still have to support your grunts with some synapse for the extra leadership (which makes them work the same as any other unit in the game in terms of morale) but you can now spread your force and play tactically rather than bubble up in the most boring and restrictive way possible just so your army doesn't run or kill itself. it still maintains fluff that the low leadership units are led by synapse but without the ridiculous need to remain within a short distance to actually work at all.

That's all very well and good except those units of gaunts outside of synpase are going to fleet at the first sight of any meaningful firepower, and losing combat even slightly will likely crush them utterly. So what's the advantage of this change again?


the whole point of my suggested house ruling is to make tyranids useful outside of synapse, and to also still keep an iota of the fluff behind synapse in use, ie big bugs leading the little bugs. using this rule they move and act like any other unit in or outside of synapse range, but you get better leadership within synapse so it's still a good idea to take some but not necessary to overload on them like you have to now. i designed it so you don't NEED the bubble to survive which removes the synapse bug hitlist tactics 'i win' button you currently have to deal with.

just because a unit is subject to morale (like 90% of the units in the game are) doesn't make it a bad rule. i designed it so they can move outside of synapse, take and hold objectives outside of the main bubble and actually perform the role troops choices are designed in the game rules to perform, which tyranid troops choices currently do not do very well. so the advantage of this change if you understand it, still remains the 9 points i made in the original post. whether you agree or not is up to you, feel free to try it out for yourself.

take this as an example. using this rule you can reliably field smaller gaunt units as objective takers outside of synapse range. you simple run and sit on it, go to ground and hope you don't get shot off it. you can do this with a bare bones 10 man, 40pt gaunt unit and unless it's forced to take a morale check from shooting, it won't go anywhere. if it goes to ground in ruins its got 3+ save, it'll still take some dislodging and it's only 40pts, you can afford numerous units, hell buy a tervigon and spawn them for nothing.

lets then go one better and say we have a 20-30 man gaunt unit with a venomthrope in support holding an objective way in the backfield out of harms way, in a ruin. are you suggesting that with the main tyranid advance barreling down on them that this unit would be targeted "meaningful firepower" because in most situations it wouldn't.

ok, so right now, both of those examples require you to pay a synapse creature 'tax' for it to work under the current ruling. effectively meaning you have to use at least 2 units to reliably do what every other army only needs 1 unit for...BUT all the enemy currently has to do is kill the synapse creature and your unit will crumble or run. you could be 30 strong in a ruin with a venomthrope giving you a 2+ cover save and all i'd need to do is zap the voanthrope or whatever it is that's babysitting it. no way in hell it'll be there come turn 5 when holding objectives actually matters. i just defeated your huge blob you were relying on holding an objective by killing one model. a single krak missile could do it.

you might not agree with me, you might not see the value in it like i do but for me personally the loss of fearless inside synapse to gain utility everywhere without synapse is worth it any day of the week without even considering the numerous other positive things it bought to the game. end of the day it's a houserule in my gaming group, i'm not suggesting you all adopt it as your own.