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kyosuke
10-06-2006, 17:01
daemonhunters fast attack option...

gray knights whit jumpack, look on the picture on how they will look.

they will cost 37 points each model (regulare model + 12)

grey knight 37 pts each
grey knight justicar 70 pts each

they arent allowed to take any uppgrades and the justicar may only take uppgrades from the armoury that does not violate whit the wargear avaible to jump pack infantry


would you allow it in a game against them?

would you allow it in:

1) friendly fights?
2) store fights?
3) tournaments?

give me insight on your thoughs about this...
me and some friends have been testing it, we played 4x 1500 fights whit it.

we found out 20 was to much each
we found out 15 was a little to much
we found out 10 was to little each

so where standing on 12 / 13 pts each model...

give your thoughs...

edit:

so a 5 man squad of these would be 218 pts
and a 10 man squad of these would be 403 pts

Mantan
10-06-2006, 17:07
or.... you could just use deepstriking knights......

Nifty model though. I really kinda need to question the stormbolter though, a stormbolter for an all assault squad?

pablofiasco
10-06-2006, 17:21
well the stormbolter is an assault weapon :)

and there isnt a stormbolterpistol option yet...


edit: hmm...i would allow it, 12/13 would seem about right to my thinkinh
any squad upgrade options? (incerator perhaps?)

Grimtuff
10-06-2006, 17:25
Sigh.

GK players want Rhinos....
GK players want Assault Squads...

These are the disadvantages of the army, live with it.

kyosuke
10-06-2006, 17:28
well the stormbolter is an assault weapon :)

and there isnt a stormbolterpistol option yet...


edit: hmm...i would allow it, 12/13 would seem about right to my thinkinh
any squad upgrade options? (incerator perhaps?)

they arent allowed to take any uppgrades other than standar kit, they dont get +1 for charging due to true grit. they must take a justicar like regulare gray knights at 50 points + 20 for jump pack.

Grimtuff
10-06-2006, 17:30
they arent allowed to take any uppgrades other than standar kit, they dont get +1 for charging due to true grit. they must take a justicar like regulare gray knights at 50 points + 20 for jump pack.

If you want assault squads so badly just play regular marines. GK have their own flavour, stop trying to standardise every army.

kyosuke
10-06-2006, 17:36
If you want assault squads so badly just play regular marines. GK have their own flavour, stop trying to standardise every army.

could you try and keep the posting more construcive critisisme if your gonna be negative to it atleast try to be constructive about it instead of 2 post saying exactlie the same about you dont like it... i would appriciate it, thank you.

MadJackMcJack
10-06-2006, 17:40
Looks good. And the fact that you've playtested it means that I would allow it for freindlies. Dunno about store games though, and don't really care about tournies. But all in all, adds a little more flavour to the Grey Knights, which is never a bad thing (you reading this Grimtuff?)

Grand Master Raziel
10-06-2006, 18:30
While I agree that Codex Daemonhunters could use a little more fleshing out, I'm not sure that jump pack Grey Knights are the way to go. I think GK bikers would be more appropriate, a combat bike with twin linked bolters being the futuristic version of a knight's charger. One of my long-term projects is to convert up a small squadron of GK bikers to enter into next year's Golden Demon competition. Obviously, I'd like to do well in the competition, but I'm also hoping someone on the Development team will think it's a cool idea and incorporate it into the Daemonhunters list at some point.

That said, the list needs non-GK based Fast Attack and Heavy Support options more than it needs either GK jump packers or GK bikers.

Grimtuff
10-06-2006, 19:10
could you try and keep the posting more construcive critisisme if your gonna be negative to it atleast try to be constructive about it instead of 2 post saying exactlie the same about you dont like it... i would appriciate it, thank you.

Erm, they are constructive. These are a bad idea IMO, all GK players want the same thing, they want their armies to play like regular SMs.

If you want your army to be like SMs so much then why don't you just play them?

For example I play SW, Hell I would love to have squad based heavy weapons and Jump Packs for my characters, but I suck it up, as I love the army, disadvantages and all. Same should go for any army, in the case of the GK it was decided from the very beginning that they should play drastically different to SMs with the exclusion of units such as Rhinos, Drop Pods and Assault Squads.

If you want all armies to be cookie cutter, that's fine by me. But this smacks of more whining "They get more toys than we do! It's not fair!"

Skyth
10-06-2006, 19:41
I wouldn't allow it in a game against me, as it isn't official.

And I agree with Grimtuff. Jump packs are not in the 'style' of Grey Knights, as most would deploy via teleportation.

And this is coming from a Daemonhunters player.

Caboose
10-06-2006, 20:25
Sigh.

GK players want Rhinos....
GK players want Assault Squads...

These are the disadvantages of the army, live with it.


only the one that dont knwo how to use demaonhunter effectivly want those :p

n00bLord
10-06-2006, 20:37
Learn to use the army the way its constructed for, or play a different one.

Raddman
11-06-2006, 03:00
Don't be so hard on the guy, sheesh!! Sometimes people can be way to static and literal. someone takes the time to do a decent looking model and even some playtesting to figure out a fair cost for the model, and all people can do is critize...sad.

I would allow it in any friendly or store game. Hell, its something different and could be alot of fun to play against.

So, you get my vote. Good Job.

GT Templar
11-06-2006, 03:32
There have been several times that I have converted something that does not have rules or is "illegal" to use with a certain list. I see absolutley no problem with this as long as you don't try to force your new unit on some one. Good job.

Ardathair
11-06-2006, 03:44
Nice conversion.

But I do not see it as part of the Grey Knight style to use jump packs. In my oppinion that is why Daemon Hunters were allowed to take allies including other Space Marines.

Just because it is a cool conversion does not mean that it should be part of an army. Someone could convert some Tau to carry close combat weapon and insist on making rules which make them closer to Kroot in CC ability. It would still not follow the army's background, and I would say no.

Sekhmet
11-06-2006, 06:34
Yeah, like what if I converted a Necron warrior to carry a heavy gauss cannon, could I take them in each of my squads? I would say no, and I think everyone would agree.

Corn Berserker
11-06-2006, 10:55
Erm, they are constructive. These are a bad idea IMO, all GK players want the same thing, they want their armies to play like regular SMs.

I smite thee. I am the only GK player I know, but I'm sure you'd get a similar responce from 99% of the others.

Space Marines are an easy army, you can stand and shoot, there's a great selection of heavy support and you can then sweep up the remains with a good charge from the command squad.

Grey Knights are a hard army, and that's why I bought them. I win about 3/4 of the games I play with my Chaos, and no longer felt challenged. Instead of dumbing down my list - which was a fairly balanced affair anyway - I went for something where evey model is important and one or two losses means a change of plan for a certain squad. A 25 point Gk is just as easy to shoot down as a 15 point SM after all. The army trains you as a player and prevents you from making stupid mistakes.

Anyways, rant over. I like the model, I'd happily play against them, but I'd probably never use them. I'm not a complete fluff whore but I can't see them smoothly fitting into a GK army. Maybe some Sanguinious style wings instead would fix this followed by a paragraph or two of homebaked fluff.

@ Sekhmet: I once had an arguement with our Necron player, at the time he was using Dark Angels but never knew much of the game mechanics (sort of person in an RPG to find the blacksmith in every town, even if the GM says there isn't one, and then argue with the GM until he's given something to shut him up). The arguement was over a Space Marine biker, with a rocket launcher. We'd tell him he can't use it and he'd bluntly reply with, "Dude, it's on the model, and don't tell me I can't do it, they are my models I will play this guy with this weapon". In the end we let him do it on condition that he couldn't shoot if he's moved and he realised that spending about 37 points or so each man in a 5 bike squad was a big point sink for one rocket which he fired very turn until he lost it. Pointless.

Grimtuff
11-06-2006, 11:08
I smite thee. I am the only GK player I know, but I'm sure you'd get a similar responce from 99% of the others.


Ahem, I know, it was said purely in the context of the thread (no, really) ;)

Corn Berserker
11-06-2006, 11:16
Ah in that case no gripe.

kyosuke
11-06-2006, 11:47
i dont force anyone to let me bring them, i simply ask "can i use my gray knigh jump pack squad for the cost of 37 pts each model and 70 for the justicar"

if they say no i dont try to persuade them or give them arguements to make them say anything otherwise.

:)

Grimtuff
11-06-2006, 12:10
i dont force anyone to let me bring them, i simply ask "can i use my gray knigh jump pack squad for the cost of 37 pts each model and 70 for the justicar"

if they say no i dont try to persuade them or give them arguements to make them say anything otherwise.

:)

You're not getting it are you? There is nothing wrong with them but THEY DO NOT FIT THE THEME OF THE ARMY this is (as other posters have already stated) like making a HTH unit that is on par or better than Kroot for the Tau

If you're having trouble with fielding GK's look for Daemonhunter tactica threads in the Tactics forums (if there is not one, create one) and ask for advice from other players.

This is a cop out, pure and simple. It's filling an inherent weakness in the army that is supposed to be there for both theme and game balance.

Grand Master Raziel
11-06-2006, 17:14
Anyway, as far as the figure itself goes, I'm not too impressed. I don't think it's adequate to simply slap a jump pack on to an existing model - not if you want it to look good, anyway. If you want them to look good, you have to go to more trouble. When I decided I wanted a jump pack chaplain for my SM army, I based it off an assault marine with parts that I cut off a pewter chaplain with a saw. Here's what I wound up with.

10157

I did this guy a while ago, so the paint job is merely adequate, but the point is that the jump pack looks like it belongs, not like it was stuck haphazardly onto a figure that it doesn't go on.

So, anyway, if you want to make jump pack Grey Knights that look good, you're going to have to go to more trouble, IMO. You can base them off assault marines, but you'll want to give them more Grey Knight-looking heads. These aren't bad for that: http://www.bwbits.com/product/3688

You'll want to bitz-order the Grey Knight halbard arms, which shouldn't be much trouble. The storm bolters are a bit tricker, but instead of arm-mounted ones, you could use plastic storm bolters from the SM Commander box set. You'll have to cut the hands off them to put them in the figures' free hand (the one not holding the halbard), but that's doable.
http://www.bwbits.com/product/3786

These are Chaos shoulder pads, but they have a rim like the GK shoulder pads: http://www.bwbits.com/product/4332

Now, the real pain in the neck will be sculpting the GK book and sword symbol on those shoulder pads - the Chaos symbol can be trimmed off with a hobby knife easily enough, but modelling putty (aka green stuff) is a pain to work with.

n00bLord
11-06-2006, 20:45
To me it seems pointless to truly argue, for me to you. I wouldn't mind you using it, but from my point of view (not ment to place any scorn any were) that you were just ranting and raving about the weaknesses of the GK and wanting to have them removed. Might just be my edginess? Who knows. Well I wouldn't mind you using them as long as I can field Death Master Snickt from WHFB as my demon prince with his exact profile!

Grimtuff
11-06-2006, 20:58
Well I wouldn't mind you using them as long as I can field Death Master Snickt from WHFB as my demon prince with his exact profile!


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Brilliant!