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JWhex
28-01-2014, 03:39
So I put up a thread giving explicit reasons why I thought the Dwarf army book would not be a success but it appears that if you post an unpopular idea here you just get shouted down and thread locked/removed.

It wasnt a rant and people that did not like what I had to say just attacked the post by saying I was whining. Which was not true and the irony of their own posts which actually were just whines, I am sure was lost on them. If warseer is not a forum for discussion where things are talked about and people's divergent opinions cant be aired then I am left wondering what the purpose of the discussion sections is.

This is not the first time an unpopular statement was just shouted down and I had hoped that the board had matured some in recent months, but I guess not.

One of the last posts I made here was censored by the administrator and not a single moderator in the help section could give a reason why and I was in fact told that they didnt kow or understand why the thread was locked.

It honestly appears to me that a thread that steps on the toes of GW is taboo here, go go go gadget fanboys.

Ramius4
28-01-2014, 03:42
Somebody wanted to whine before any information about the book was available. I fail to see how that is a basis for any discussion. The thread was wasted for good reasons. ;)

There you go, there's your reason. And a valid one too, I might add.

Nobody wants to listen to a guy complain about the new shipment of oranges the grocery store is getting next week, when the guy has neither seen them, or tasted them... And that's exactly what you did. It was an unfounded and pointless rant.

JWhex
28-01-2014, 04:05
No I discussed long standing problems with the playability of Dwarves and gave reasons why I didnt think they would be fixed.

What happened was people mischaracterized what I said and then complained about the mischaracterization they made up and not what I actually said.

I call BS on Darnok's comment posted above. I have no issue with him personally but in this instance he is just wrong.

Ramius4
28-01-2014, 04:08
I read that other thread, and I completely agree with Darnok.

The reasons why you felt things would not be fixed are irrelevant in the face of no evidence to support them.

Kind of like this thread. It serves no purpose in a warhammer forum. It will be closed soon enough though.

shakedown47
28-01-2014, 04:11
While I agree that the most vocal members of warseer have a tendency to vociferously defend their positions and opinions, going as far as personal attacks, passive-aggressive remarks, and poo-pooing the ideas of anyone that disagrees with them, I can't say I'm shocked that your thread got negative feedback. Honestly, what were you trying for?

Was your post meant to buoy the spirits of the community? Was it expressing hopefulness for the future of the hobby, or specifically of the upcoming dwarf book? Was it meant to provoke a worthwhile conversation about the possible future direction of the game? In short, was it meant to be positive or helpful in any way? The answer, as you of course know, was that it wasn't meant to be any of those things.

Your thread was just a statement about your negative and short-sided opinions, a borderline rant, but you didn't have anything interesting to say. You don't think the next dwarf book will be a success? Well, fine, but why would anyone else be interested in that opinion? Even if it were true, does your starting a conversation about it have any chance of affecting a change in the printed material? I could go on and on, but I think I've made my point. Your thread was entirely negative, contrarian, and entirely without purpose; what possible bearing could it have had on anyone that read it? There is plenty of room on this board for dissenting opinion, a brief look around will show enough evidence of that, but people who go around moaning about falling skies are just hard to listen to unless they have a valid point to make. You know that person at your LGS who is always bitching and moaning about every single aspect of the game, and how everyone thinks he's just kind of a douche and wish he would either go away or just shut the ---- up? That person is what threads like yours remind me of.

This current thread is another example of someone that is doing nothing but attention whoring. If you're feeling butt-hurt about the community reaction to your last thread, fine, but don't make another post complaining about it, just act your age and get over it.

NagashLover
28-01-2014, 04:40
I'll side with Darnok on this and simply state the same thing I said about the Tyranids book "wait and see". I always encourage a healthy dose of skepticism but when you jump the gun before a book releases, and before the book is played enough that the community gains an understanding of it, then you are immediately going to go into it with a negative bias. This contradicts being cautious and logical because you're feeding into a self fulfilling prophecy of doomsaying and jumping at shadows (both legit and those not).

You could be right but where you definitely are not right is by making this thread and condemning others for a similar action you blame them for doing. Just wait and see this is the most rational, mature and logical approach you can take towards things that aren't of an immediate or life threatening situation. I dunno maybe I'm just not as passionate about the hobby in the same as you or as concerned about the army (as I tend to stick with the brain dead, more easily manipulated...) so I obviously might not understand the concerns in the same manner as you due to how it doesn't impact me. Please also understand I'm not saying my way is "better" or judging you, just attempting to offer some advice that might keep bruised feelings from developing (regardless of which side you take, also yes I know this is the internet...).

I do hope you take my advice because regardless if you end up being right, your current conduct won't give you anymore credit on these forums for the most part.

StygianBeach
28-01-2014, 09:52
I agree with Darnok on this one. That last Thread needed deleting.

You could have started a Thread stating.

"Why I think the next Dwarf book will be difficult to get right."

Then list your concerns as to why it would be difficult, but instead the title was about why you think the Dwarf book would be a failure. There is a difference.

Why not try making the thread again, but be more neutral and see if things go better next time.

underscore
28-01-2014, 10:05
Your thread was bad and you should feel bad.

Lorcryst
28-01-2014, 10:17
I took the time to answer your previous thread with detailled points about how you can make the current, outdated 6th Ed Dwarf Army Book work, provided examples and alternatives and concluded by saying that you stated your own personnal point of view as facts, which they weren't.

That was a total waste of good electrons. You never even acknowledged the counter-arguments to your "facts".

And now you make another thread whining about your rant and whine getting wasted because it was futile and pointless.

I smell troll. Or attention seeking.

There is room for dissention on WarSeer, you just have to present salient points and be open to debate, not type a list of things you don't like, don't provide reasons for your dislike, and then ignore people providing counterarguments or simply another point of view.

PS : don't anger the mods by discussing their decisions openly. I made that mistake once, that way lies banning.

Urgat
28-01-2014, 10:21
Nobody wants to listen to a guy complain about the new shipment of oranges the grocery store is getting next week, when the guy has neither seen them, or tasted them... And that's exactly what you did. It was an unfounded and pointless rant.


No [...] and gave reasons why I didnt think they would be fixed.
So no, but in fact, yes.

MOMUS
28-01-2014, 11:19
There was no discussion in the original thread, just a list of your own undeniable 'facts'.

I call troll.

Tae
28-01-2014, 12:07
It honestly appears to me that a thread that steps on the toes of GW is taboo here, go go go gadget fanboys.

It honestly appears to me that you've never been to GW General.

IcedCrow
28-01-2014, 13:24
Ah "fanboy". that lovely word.

forseer of fates
28-01-2014, 13:33
Didn't realise there was any left.

Darnok
28-01-2014, 13:41
I strongly disagreee with the OP, in both the removed thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?388709-Why-I-believe-the-new-dwarf-book-will-be-a-commercial-and-gaming-failure)* and this one.

The "discussion" started in that other one was but a list of things why previous Dwarf books did a bad job - in the OPs opinion. If that was an attempt to discuss the older books, including the current one, it could work as a basis (even though a rather poor one in my opinion). However, as a discussion about the upcoming armybook it really had no point at all: we don't know anything about it yet. Maybe some issues with the Dwarf army in general are finally solved, maybe not. Maybe other problems arise, maybe not. It is like complaining about next months weather: completely pointless.

By the reaction of different people here I think my opinion is shared by many. To the OP: feel free to discuss the new armybook once it is out, and you had an actual look at its content in context.


* ... if you are a Guilder, you still can access this one. ;)

Kung Fu Hamster
28-01-2014, 15:35
It honestly appears to me that a thread that steps on the toes of GW is taboo here, go go go gadget fanboys.

I missed the thread you're referencing, but this little bit stood out.

If you seriously think Whineseer is a haven for GW fanboys who will not tolerate any criticism of their beloved company in any way, you obviously haven't been paying attention to anything in the history of ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jind_Singh
28-01-2014, 15:52
So I put up a thread giving explicit reasons why I thought the Dwarf army book would not be a success but it appears that if you post an unpopular idea here you just get shouted down and thread locked/removed.

It honestly appears to me that a thread that steps on the toes of GW is taboo here, go go go gadget fanboys.

Not really - I've been on Warseer for many moo a and have started or taken part in MANY threads.

I even started:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?388361-Did-we-40k-Gamers-defeat-Games-Workshop

And you will notice that its not been shutdown, no one is trolling, there is a healthy debate going on from hobbyists of both sides

The Mods are vigilant on Warseer (as they should be) but hardly heavy handed - and if you message them they will respond with why a thread was closed- but we should t expect them to send a message for every post they delete or thread they close - these folks are volunteers and have their own lives to live as well.

I'm a Mod for a Facebookpage for 200 hobbyists - and babysitting that is hard enough! Now scale that up to a Warseer sized forum ...

Daniel36
28-01-2014, 15:55
Your thread was bad and you should feel bad.
Ah hahahaha... underscore here is also trying to push the boundaries of the forum guidelines.


It honestly appears to me that you've never been to GW General.
Agreed. JWhex, I am sure you are a nice guy, and you took the deletion of your thread very personal where you really shouldn't... and now you are accusing Whineseer, as someone here has already lovingly called it, for being fanboyish, then you clearly haven't been to GW General yet.

Try posting something positive there! I once posted about how Finecast could be the return of GW catering to veterans. How wrong I was... and how much hatred was poured over on me. I literally felt Khorne breathe down my neck. I learned, I moved on. I still punish myself from time to time by going into General. You should really check it out. You will like it there.
You have to agree though, complaining about something that hasn't been released yet, for which no information is released at all... You could've spent your time painting a Nurgle Daemon Prince or Tzeentch Lord on Disc.

Lord Dan
28-01-2014, 19:12
It honestly appears to me that a thread that steps on the toes of GW is taboo here, go go go gadget fanboys.

So if someone complains about GW and some people then defend it, all of a sudden Warseer is the pro-GW site? Never mind the countless threads in which someone defended GW and some people complained about it, resulting in charges of Warseer being an anti-GW site.

Warseer: the most pro-anti-GW site around.



I call BS on Darnok's comment posted above. I have no issue with him personally but in this instance he is just wrong.
You could always leave.

I'm just saying. It's an option.

@allmyownbattles
28-01-2014, 19:25
As a counter balance, I saw the title of the original thread and was interested in what it had to say as I have my own reservations and concerns about the launch of the new book. Sadly, the thread was closed before I got to open it. I'm not sure how someone voicing their worries for the further can be deemed worthy of being closed down. Can someone explain?

If, for example, I stated that 'I think I've bought my last GW dwarf. I don't like the new direction they're going in and I'm guessing all future models will be like this', is that being negative without cause?

And this:


Was your post meant to buoy the spirits of the community? Was it expressing hopefulness for the future of the hobby, or specifically of the upcoming dwarf book? Was it meant to provoke a worthwhile conversation about the possible future direction of the game? In short, was it meant to be positive or helpful in any way? The answer, as you of course know, was that it wasn't meant to be any of those things.

How is being 'positive' a means to provoke discussion? Without someone 'being negative' there is no discussion.

Karak Norn Clansman
28-01-2014, 20:10
Don't have any expectations whatsoever on an army book before you've read it.

Sexiest_hero
28-01-2014, 20:32
Although I agree that the OP's thread should have been deleted, there can be a real debate about units and tactics that "work" and don't according to the internet. back in the beginning of fifth edition, I came up with a tyranid tactic I called the counter attack cloud. I was told I sucked. That I didn't mind, then I was told my friends I played against sucked. I went on the finish 2 in the atlanta ard boys prelims, and 4th in the second heat. I was told Atlanta players sucked. A while later an "Internet star" ran an list kinda close to my own. He was hailed as a great thinker for almost the same thing they had hated before. Same happened with my foot IG, my blood knight bus back in the days of "8th ed cav sucks" and my gorebull/ungor horde. I think the OP is wrong, but there is a reason why the term whine-seer stuck. I think a little more positivity would be nice in the gaming community

IcedCrow
28-01-2014, 20:45
Although I agree that the OP's thread should have been deleted, there can be a real debate about units and tactics that "work" and don't according to the internet. back in the beginning of fifth edition, I came up with a tyranid tactic I called the counter attack cloud. I was told I sucked. That I didn't mind, then I was told my friends I played against sucked. I went on the finish 2 in the atlanta ard boys prelims, and 4th in the second heat. I was told Atlanta players sucked. A while later an "Internet star" ran an list kinda close to my own. He was hailed as a great thinker for almost the same thing they had hated before. Same happened with my foot IG, my blood knight bus back in the days of "8th ed cav sucks" and my gorebull/ungor horde. I think the OP is wrong, but there is a reason why the term whine-seer stuck. I think a little more positivity would be nice in the gaming community

Yep. Agreed. I've had similar experiences. If you go counter to the internet wizdomz its either you're making it up, or your meta obviously is full of cretins that don't know how to play properly. It takes someone winning a big GT before the wizdomz change. In fact I remember when Tomb Kings were receiving the rage that the tyranid book is now... and then they ended up winning a big GT with the Khalida list and the rage magically vanished.

Also I'd like to point out that there are people with agendas trying to push alternative games and get people away from GW games to help their games prosper more (I know several of those guys in real life who troll GW boards daily talking up WM and Malifaux and other games for that specific purpose)

VaeVictisGames
28-01-2014, 20:48
As a counter balance, I saw the title of the original thread and was interested in what it had to say as I have my own reservations and concerns about the launch of the new book. Sadly, the thread was closed before I got to open it. I'm not sure how someone voicing their worries for the further can be deemed worthy of being closed down. Can someone explain?

There is a difference between being concerned about the future of the game and criticizing a product that no one at all has actually seen yet. An example of the former is http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?387078-There-should-be-something-done-about-sniper-cannons - a critique of a rule within the game and a discussion on whether or not it needs to be altered. That is a discussion. Starting a thread declaring a future product will be a failure, without any knowledge at all of its contents, is not.