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Romanov77
02-02-2014, 21:01
So we have these creepy guys (and usually very sexy gals) going around the galaxy rooting and burning all the evils that lurk in the Imperium.

Yet...aren't they way too much powerful?
Shouldn't they have stronger ties to the Imperium leadership (High Lords)?
I mean, these guys have a nasty tendency to turn psychopath/batshit insane/heretics and they can still order a planet burned for the lulz.

I know that their trade requires fast decision making and fierce independence, but given their powers, shouldn't they bow to some kind of authority other than their Ordos?

Splen
02-02-2014, 21:04
But they are a picnic compared to the corrupt bureaucratic nightmare that is the high lords of terra!

ntw3001
02-02-2014, 21:14
Well, the reason the Inquisition exists is to police the entire Imperium; not even the High Lords are outside their remit. So who would such an organisation be loyal to? I believe there's already an Ordo dedicated to internal investigations, and if there hasn't be one mentioned, there's an Ordo for everything anyway. There's not much reason to appoint a second Inquisition to police the Inquisition; it already polices itself.

Romanov77
02-02-2014, 21:42
But there shouldn't be a "back up plan"?

I mean, Astartes had limitless power, and eventually it brought the Heresy. So they got "regulated".

Think about the Inquisition.
Think about the power they wield.
They got ships, armies, archeotech, Exterminatus grade weapons, xenos gadgets, daemon hosts and chaos weapons...and they can order everyone around.

The same guys who got duped by heretic cells who where able to raise whole academies posed as legitimate Inquisition business, fooling even the cadets themselves...

What if the higher echelons get corrupted?
They could bring whole segments into utter chaos...exterminating planets, generating massive in-fighting (es, hey Cadians, burn that Mordia planet...why? Because they are heretics and because I am the goddamn Inquisition)

Poncho160
02-02-2014, 21:48
To quote Sir Samuel Vines when asked, "Who watches the watchmen?" His reply was, " Me."

I feel the Inquisition works very similarly, with each Inquisitor watching out for treachery and heresy in all the other Inquisitors he / she has contact with and confronting it whenever the uncover anything they feel is wrong. Even Inquisitors are not free from the watch of the Inquistion!

Langdon
02-02-2014, 22:29
To quote Sir Samuel Vines when asked, "Who watches the watchmen?" His reply was, " Me."

I feel the Inquisition works very similarly, with each Inquisitor watching out for treachery and heresy in all the other Inquisitors he / she has contact with and confronting it whenever the uncover anything they feel is wrong. Even Inquisitors are not free from the watch of the Inquistion!
Vimes.

He was no 7 second fling.

ForgottenLore
02-02-2014, 22:44
Think about the Inquisition.
Think about the power they wield.
They got ships, armies, archeotech, Exterminatus grade weapons, xenos gadgets, daemon hosts and chaos weapons...and they can order everyone around.

And then think about how fragmented they are. Everyone always seems to forget that the Inquisition isn't some monolithic, super-structured organization. Its a hideously fragmented, factionalized, mess of competing groups. It is not too far off the mark to say that the "Inquisition" is really a number of separate organizations equal to the number of Inquisitors.

Compared to the Inquisition, the Adeptus Astartes are a single, unified fighting force.

Who regulates Inquisitors? Rival Inquisitors.

Hellebore
02-02-2014, 23:04
That's what the ordo malleus was originally supposed to do - police the inquisition itself.

These days with Abnett making the inquisition his own little playground and 40k just fragmenting under contradictory authorship, these sorts of questions come up. ordo of the blahblah etc.

Inquisitors only become such after being vetted by other inquisitors. So they need to be able to pass all the ridiculous tests inquisitors impose, ensuring they have the strength of will to resist corruption etc. This means the greater majority never go evilz and if they do other inquisitors mobilise to end them.

Of course the ordo malleus was originally exactly what you're referring to...

Hellebore

OuroborosTriumphant
02-02-2014, 23:51
It's worth remembering the Imperium as it exists was never planned out. Nobody decided to structure it the way it is structured. It was pulled together from the remaining Imperial institutions after the Horus Heresy left both the Emperor and Malcador, his right-hand man, dead/unavailable. The Inquisition lacks external oversight because no other Imperial institution has the authority to hold them to account.

Hengist
02-02-2014, 23:52
If you want a reasonable human civilisation run by sensible rules, there are plenty of other SF setting for you. It's pretty much the point of the 40k setting that the Imperium is a nightmarish dystopia where unchecked power-mad psychopaths have the power of life and death over every human being.

ntw3001
03-02-2014, 00:35
What if the higher echelons get corrupted?
They could bring whole segments into utter chaos...exterminating planets, generating massive in-fighting (es, hey Cadians, burn that Mordia planet...why? Because they are heretics and because I am the goddamn Inquisition)


Well, in theory the Inquisition doesn't have higher echelons. There's one level of seniority, called Inquisitor. In practice different Inquisitors wield wildly differing levels of clout amongst their peers, but only because a majority of peers consider them worth listening to. And as far as ordering Cadians to attack Mordia goes, there is the practical concern of getting them to actually do it. Demanding that a Cadian general attack Mordia on a whim would probably result in some unlucky soldier finding a rosette in his meat pie.

MarcoSkoll
03-02-2014, 01:10
Think about the Inquisition.
Think about the power they wield.
I once wrote a short story which was a henchwoman's half of the conversation with another Inquisitor. The key passage is probably this one:

"Don't make me laugh - your seal isn't your power. It can only control those who are willing to obey. No, all of your 'ultimate authority' needs people like me. We're what stops the iron-skinned mutant tearing your head off."

The truth is that Inquisitors are not all powerful. Don't mistake giving orders with them being obeyed.

If you want to take down the local planetary governor, you can't (sensibly) walk into any old PDF barracks and say "You lot, you're helping me depose Lord Trumpington", because you have no idea of where their loyalties lie.

If an Inquisitor wants to launch Exterminatus, he won't carry around planet busting munitions all the time (they're not exactly safe to have around - a minor skirmish could potentially set them off) so he has to go through one of the few forces capable... who will all, naturally, have ties to the Inquisition and start asking questions.


What if the higher echelons get corrupted?
To that I say "What higher echelons?".

Technically, all Inquisitors have the ultimate authority. You can't have a "more ultimate authority", which means there's no strict command structure to the Inquisition.
Yes, there are Inquisitor Lords, but the power of the position is basically "I am well respected and have lots of friends. Mess with me and you mess with all of them."

If an Inquisitor Lord starts going loopy, his friends will probably stop listening to him quite fast.

ForgottenLore
03-02-2014, 01:59
If an Inquisitor Lord starts going loopy, his friends will probably stop listening to him quite fast.

If he is lucky. Since all of those friends don't want to be tainted by anything increasingly crazy inquisitor does, if he starts getting too loopy it is likely he simply stops arriving for appointments one day.

MarcoSkoll
03-02-2014, 04:12
Well, it depends in which way he goes loopy. If he starts a plan to bomb Cadia, yes, he probably just disappears.

But I can certainly imagine an Inquisitor Lord going slowly senile as the rejuve doesn't quite manage to stop the dementia creeping up in his later centuries - he might keep his nominal position out of respect for the great man he once was, but his mind is far enough gone that the rest of his sector conclave generally only pay attention to him to stop him actually signing anything important.

Asi the Red
03-02-2014, 05:06
Also remember that there are different factions within the Inquisition itself. An Amalthean Inquisitor and a Thorian Inquisitor in theory possess the same amount of authority and are both out there doing the Emperor's Work, but you can be sure that they're both keeping an eye on their former ally who has started taking a Neo-Horusian bent, as well as potentially each other. Either one might return to their base of operations only to find out that while they were out in the field their methods were called into question by a conclave of their peers and they're being "escorted" there to give a full accounting of themselves.

Romanov77
03-02-2014, 05:25
Interesting replies.

About the "Higher echelons", isn't there some command structure?
I clearly remember stuff as "Sector Command"...with leaders like Lord Alessandro Rorken...

CasaHouse
03-02-2014, 05:55
The nature of the Inquisition pretty much puts it above regulation. The only two real checks I see being in place are:
1: Other Inquisitors are a suspicious bunch.
2: If an Inquisitor gets too full of themselves or too ruthless, the people they boss around might just kill them. This is especially possible when they start bossing the Astartes around.

As an Inquisitor you have pretty much limitless authority. Said authority is not much defense against a bolt shell to the back of the head or a chainsword to the gut, though.

-Casa

MarcoSkoll
03-02-2014, 06:11
About the "Higher echelons", isn't there some command structure?
A de facto structure exists, but not a de jure one.

No-one has legal authority over an Inquisitor - that's what their having the "ultimate authority" means. The command structure that exists therefore has no force in Imperial law; it is instead the formalisation of formidable reputations and threats of violence.

Romanov77
03-02-2014, 11:16
A de facto structure exists, but not a de jure one.

No-one has legal authority over an Inquisitor - that's what their having the "ultimate authority" means. The command structure that exists therefore has no force in Imperial law; it is instead the formalisation of formidable reputations and threats of violence.

Ha, that was a really effective description!

Lord Zarkov
03-02-2014, 18:21
The 'command structure' such as in the Eisenhorn books is also a way to better manage communal resources - I.E. OX Inq A has the authority to tell IL Rorken to go stuff himself if he wants, but next time he comes asking for backup for something, or access to Helican records, or use of communal buildings, or collective clout when requisitioning something, etc, he's going to get the same response himself and be forced to rely on his own personal resources.

However, if enough Inqs take a disliking to Rorken they could remove him as long as they can dissuade a larger group from eliminating them.

Inquisitorial power is effectively a con trick - it's rather more about convincing others that they're going to suffer if they oppose your aims than about formal orders that must be followed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

yabbadabba
03-02-2014, 18:34
So you are saying we need some sort of OfInq?

insectum7
03-02-2014, 18:54
Who watches the watchers?

The watchers. Everybody is uneasy around Inquisitors, especially Inquisitors.

Ever notice that Grey Knights are the only Imperial faction that isn't battle brothers with anyone else in the allies list? They might be Imperial, but everybody is uneasy around them.

Menthak
03-02-2014, 19:18
So we need a faction that can control the inquisition? So a faction more powerful than a faction that has complete power? So the inquisition needs to be regulated by Tzeentch?

More seriously it more or less regulates itself through overlapping inquisitors that just watch each other.

wanderingblade
03-02-2014, 19:43
If you want a reasonable human civilisation run by sensible rules, there are plenty of other SF setting for you. It's pretty much the point of the 40k setting that the Imperium is a nightmarish dystopia where unchecked power-mad psychopaths have the power of life and death over every human being.

To me, this. I don't wish to dismiss all the rationalisations of Inquisitors watching themselves and the extent to which their power depends on others, because they are true enough, but to me the answer to the question is "Yes, in a nice universe they would be, this is not a nice universe". I don't think the limitations described are effective or efficient ones. The Inquisition is a monstrosity, accountable only to itself and a few very powerful individuals, and capable of wreaking great damage on the rest of humanity, be it through incompetence, excessive zeal or corruption.

The only issue is that in the Imperium, they are a necessary monstrosity. Well, probably.

Eldartank
03-02-2014, 20:43
It is my understanding that the one organization over which the Inquisition has absolutely no authority is the Adeptus Custodes, the superhuman guards of the Emperor's Throne.

And even with their supposed authority, Inquisitors aren't so all-powerful that one couldn't be taken down by a Space Marine Chapter or some such force if that Inquisitor goes a bit too far....

Zenithfleet
04-02-2014, 03:48
So we have these creepy guys (and usually very sexy gals) going around the galaxy rooting and burning all the evils that lurk in the Imperium.


To the OP: I usually try not to point out typos, but that one made my day.

I think you meant 'rooting out and burning'.

Otherwise, speaking as an Australian, the quoted sentence has a completely different meaning. One that provides a whole new perspective on the secretive activities of said creepy guys and sexy gals. :eek:

(If you don't get it, think of that joke about the panda who 'eats shoots and leaves'. Down here it's usually a wombat, it eats roots instead of shoots, and the description of what it does when it wanders into the pub isn't quite as appropriate for kids...)

No wonder they burn the evidence. What would the Ordo Malleus say? :angel:

Anakwanar
04-02-2014, 08:33
Inquisition regulated - WHAT :D:p:):skull::evilgrin::chrome::cheese::angel::wtf :

Perrin
04-02-2014, 09:37
I haven't read Eisenhorn but the Inquisition seems relatively managed in Ravenor. There are forces that he is answerable to and gets taken to task when they believe he has broken the rules too much, but it is an Inquisitorial Conclave that punishes him iirc?

If an Inquisitor got too big for their boots it would be relatively easy to ensure that someone who knows their location gets captured by Chaos, then let them do the work for you!

Romanov77
04-02-2014, 11:23
Such grimdarkness...I love it.

Anggul
04-02-2014, 12:12
The Inquisition regulate each other. They constantly question one another to make sure nothing is off. Contrary to a lot of the jokes we make about it, exterminatus is a regretful last resort that they will only carry out if there really is absolutely no other way. They don't just go around scouring planets with bombs every time something annoying pops up. An Inquisitor has to justify such an action to their fellow Inquisitors, it's a big deal. Kryptman enacted exterminatus upon loads of planets in the path of Hive Fleet Leviathan to deny it biomass and slow it down. The other Inquisitors declared him a madman and a traitor and excommunicated him. It worked, Leviathan was slowed down a lot by the biomass denial, but he had blown away trillions of people and probably a great deal of very important industry.

A lot of people seem to have the view that the Imperium have more than enough men and resources to do whatever they need to do, and don't see most things as a threat, probably because they're spoken about the most in the fluff. The entire point is that the Imperium is stretched to the limit every moment and just about holds off the threats, and all the while the Inquisition are seeking out the threats from within, pushing themselves to the limit to prevent the Imperium collapsing in upon itself. Let's say for example a forge world in a sector is lost. If that sector isn't reinforced soon, it's going to find itself being pushed back and overrun by whatever threat that forge world was supplying the war effort against.

MarcoSkoll
04-02-2014, 12:33
I haven't read Eisenhorn but the Inquisition seems relatively managed in Ravenor. There are forces that he is answerable to and gets taken to task when they believe he has broken the rules too much, but it is an Inquisitorial Conclave that punishes him iirc?
Abnett ran away with things rather a lot, to the point that on some occasion we got the excuse that the way the Inquisition works in the Scarus sector is "different".

Polaria
04-02-2014, 12:53
The very fact that there are "Fallen Inquisitors" and Inquisitorial factions who are considered so radical that they have been condemned heretics to be burned on sight pretty much proves that the Inquisition IS, de facto, policing itself.

The joke is that an organization where one man is ultimately leading the whole organization needs policing. An organization where everyone is by definition equal (all Inquisitors have the exact same "Emperors Permission To Do Whatever They Want" or absolute authority) doesn't necessarily need outside policing.

Think about western democracies. By definition the absolute authority rests with the people. The voting citizens, to be more exact. No matter what authroity you have in democarcy you only have it because: 1) you are elected to wield it by the people or 2) you were appointed by someone who was elected by the people. So the question is not "who watches the president" or "who watches the NSA" or whatever. The REAL question is "who watches the people?". Well, the people themselves do. We each have only one vote.

jakejackjake
05-02-2014, 02:10
Ever notice that Grey Knights are the only Imperial faction that isn't battle brothers with anyone else in the allies list? They might be Imperial, but everybody is uneasy around them.

That's cause if you see the Grey Knights they have to kill you. Ever read "The Emperor's Gift"? Not in that book but in other things theyve even killed Astartes for seeing them.

insectum7
05-02-2014, 17:44
That's cause if you see the Grey Knights they have to kill you. Ever read "The Emperor's Gift"? Not in that book but in other things theyve even killed Astartes for seeing them.

Always always? Seems unlikely, since chapters have worked in conjunction with the Grey Knights (notably the first war for Armageddon). I'm not saying there isn't some degree of mind-wiping and possible dismissal/made-into-a-servitor sorts of actions. But out and out killing every Space Marine who's seen a Grey Knight seems a bit off.

Also, to my knowledge most of the danger in past fiction comes not from seeing Grey Knights, but of witnessing Chaos and it's potential for spiritual corruption.

Perrin
05-02-2014, 18:21
Never heard of Astartes getting killed for seeing Grey Knights? Might have read a one-liner about them being mind-wiped afterwards but definitely not killed.

In the Emperor's Gift no one even mentions the idea of mind-wiping the Wolves. They want to destroy the soldiers sure, but that's because they saw the Grey Knights and a Daemon Primarch. Astartes are supposed to fight all enemies of mankind, daemons included, why would anyone kill/mind-wipe them for witnessing Chaos? Killing Astartes for seeing a Grey Knight makes even less sense, what's the point? Sure the GK are a secret, shown by only Grimnar knowing of their existence, but it isn't like seeing them will corrupt the normal Astartes.

In Pandorax the whole DA Chapter see's and fights alongside a full GK Company, as well as against Abbadon and a Daemon Prince/Greater Daemon army, none of them are killed/mind-wiped. Hell even the Guard that fight alongside them are only mind-wiped, rather than executed.

insectum7
05-02-2014, 19:27
Never heard of Astartes getting killed for seeing Grey Knights? Might have read a one-liner about them being mind-wiped afterwards but definitely not killed.


In Ian Watson's Space Marine, a good amount of detail is given for a post-Chaos encounter. The Marines who witness the encounter are locked in stasis chambers and brought to a triple-cell security "Isolarium" in which the Librarians of the chapter examine them over a number of days/weeks and even use instrumentation to look at their comatose dreams for signs of corruption. While this particular unit is permitted to retain their memories, it is mentioned that "bad cases" are sometimes required to be mind-wiped to the point of infancy, this would seem to indicate that some encounters necessitate removal from Space Marine ranks.

So, witnessing Chaos can be harsh. . . but, yeah, out and out executions of Space Marines seems unlikely.

InstantKarma
05-02-2014, 19:43
A de facto structure exists, but not a de jure one.

No-one has legal authority over an Inquisitor - that's what their having the "ultimate authority" means. The command structure that exists therefore has no force in Imperial law; it is instead the formalisation of formidable reputations and threats of violence.

Custom or Habits vs. Force of Law in otherwords. It is what gives the Inquisition the freedom they have in order to carry out their mission. To much law can get one into quite a tangle (I believe someone already mentioned the infamous Imperial Bureaurcracy).


Never heard of Astartes getting killed for seeing Grey Knights? Might have read a one-liner about them being mind-wiped afterwards but definitely not killed.

In the Emperor's Gift no one even mentions the idea of mind-wiping the Wolves. They want to destroy the soldiers sure, but that's because they saw the Grey Knights and a Daemon Primarch. Astartes are supposed to fight all enemies of mankind, daemons included, why would anyone kill/mind-wipe them for witnessing Chaos? Killing Astartes for seeing a Grey Knight makes even less sense, what's the point? Sure the GK are a secret, shown by only Grimnar knowing of their existence, but it isn't like seeing them will corrupt the normal Astartes.

In Pandorax the whole DA Chapter see's and fights alongside a full GK Company, as well as against Abbadon and a Daemon Prince/Greater Daemon army, none of them are killed/mind-wiped. Hell even the Guard that fight alongside them are only mind-wiped, rather than executed.

Both of your examples are of Space Marine chapters that are notorious for either dodging the Inquisition or out-right fighting them if the Inquisition even thinks about going after their Chapter, so I'm not sure those are the best examples.

To use non-spoiler info, the Space Wolvess campaign AFTER the 1st invasion of Armageddon is a good example of simply why the Inquisition/GKs do not even bother with trying to mind-wipe that chapter. The SWs have always been more 'independent' when it came to other Imperial organizations from the beginning, which it seems was something the Emperor wanted.

As for the Dark Angels, their most recent Codex doesn't even subtly hint that when a Fallen Angel that was captured by the Inquisition broke under questioning and reveled 'great heresy' the DAs are not above attacking and destroying Inquisition ships/crews in order to protect their secret.

So oddly enough, the two Legions/Chapters who have the most well known rivalry in the Imperium have something very much in common; they do not tolerate the Inquisition meddling in their affairs!

MarcoSkoll
05-02-2014, 22:54
I think there may be some people confusing causality on the whole Grey Knights thing. As far as I'd understood it, the euthanasia is for being exposed to Chaos, rather than knowing about the Grey Knights. (That said, I haven't read the 5th Ed Codex, but I tend to consider Mat Ward's fluff writing very suspect anyway).
Of course, if you've been exposed to the Grey Knights, you're rather likely to have been exposed to Chaos (given that's their focus), but it does make a lot more sense when the latter is the cause.

After all, when it comes down to it, Grey Knights look like Space Marines. Even walking down the middle of the busiest thoroughfare on a hive world capital hasn't the slightest bearing on their secrecy, because all everyone would see is "Space Marine".

Sternguard777
05-02-2014, 23:45
The biggest problem with trying to regulate the Inquisition is that you never expect them...

In all seriousness though everyone else is correct in that for the most part the Inquisition is the regulating body for the Inquisition. They probably have an Ordo just for it though I suppose that under the most basic of terms the Ordo Hereticus could cover it.

Interestingly there are examples of the Inquisition monitoring the Inquisition in the Ordo Vigilus, who oversee the activities of the Ordo Necros, even though no one knows what the Ordo Necros does.

Also of note is the Ordo Excorium who oversee Exterminatus and make sure Inquisitors can't kill a planet for having an itch on their bum on the way there.

MarcoSkoll
06-02-2014, 02:36
I'm not at all keen on the mass of Ordos they introduced in the Inquisition e-codex. Most of what appeared there would have been cabals, cells, factions within Ordos or just plain unaffiliated Inquisitors in older fluff.

And the idea of Ordos that no-one knows what they're doing just doesn't work. If a group is doing something secret enough that the Inquisition as a whole doesn't know what they're doing, then the Inquisition should either a) not know about it at all, or b) be investigating it as a possible threat. Either way, it wouldn't be counted as an Ordo.

It might be one thing to have an Ordo's purpose be classified, but having it be unknown* just doesn't make sense.
*At least for an extant Ordo. An Ordo that went "extinct" long enough ago could have an excuse - imagine passing references, with the only informative data being a pile of records no-one knows how to decrypt...

Sternguard777
06-02-2014, 03:20
I'm not at all keen on the mass of Ordos they introduced in the Inquisition e-codex. Most of what appeared there would have been cabals, cells, factions within Ordos or just plain unaffiliated Inquisitors in older fluff.

And the idea of Ordos that no-one knows what they're doing just doesn't work. If a group is doing something secret enough that the Inquisition as a whole doesn't know what they're doing, then the Inquisition should either a) not know about it at all, or b) be investigating it as a possible threat. Either way, it wouldn't be counted as an Ordo.

It might be one thing to have an Ordo's purpose be classified, but having it be unknown* just doesn't make sense.
*At least for an extant Ordo. An Ordo that went "extinct" long enough ago could have an excuse - imagine passing references, with the only informative data being a pile of records no-one knows how to decrypt...

I believe most of the extra Ordos came from Dark Heresy if I'm not mistaken. And I was a little overeager in saying no one knows what the Ordo Necros does.

What I meant is that we don't know what they do. The only information we have on them is that what they do is important enough to have an entire Ordo designated to keep an eye on them. I would guess that in universe its classified so that only they themselves and the Ordo Vigilus know what they do. Since the Vigilus aren't studying the Ordo Necros, they watch them, which implies knowing something about them. Seems perfectly reasonable and par the course for the Inquisition. An Ordo so important yet so secretive that the only thing we know about them is that there is another Ordo specifically to watch them.

You can always expect the Inquisition to be unexpected.

MarcoSkoll
06-02-2014, 04:36
I believe most of the extra Ordos came from Dark Heresy if I'm not mistaken.
I haven't exhaustively read everything from Dark Heresy, but I can only recall the Ordo Chronos as definitely being from the FFG books.

I know Andy Hoare talked about the idea of what he called the "Ordo Redactor" on his (now inaccessible) blog though - an Ordo of Information/Misinformation that seems to have spawned some of the things on the list.
(However, I know I was writing about such an Ordo beforehand, having been inspired by Serenity and feeling that information was a sufficiently distinct remit to be an Ordo Minoris).

In any case, it's still conflicting with older background (mostly in the Inquisitor rulebook and the Thorian sourcebook), as well as a dose of common sense, when it comes to the internal structure of the Inquisition.


And I was a little overeager in saying no one knows what the Ordo Necros does.
I haven't actually got the e-codex in front of me (I stopped buying from GW years ago, so I've only read a mate's copy), but I'm pretty sure I recall it saying "Unknown", not "Classified" or something similar. That's how everyone I can find is quoting it, certainly.

If the intent was indeed as you put it, then they didn't make a good word choice.

OuroborosTriumphant
06-02-2014, 12:11
I know Andy Hoare talked about the idea of what he called the "Ordo Redactor" on his (now inaccessible) blog though - an Ordo of Information/Misinformation that seems to have spawned some of the things on the list.

Are you sure it wasn't the Ordo Reductor? They are a subdivision of the Merchanicus with responsibility for heavy seige weaponry, rather than an Ordo of the Inquisition. Unrelated use of the same High Gothic word.

hazmiter
06-02-2014, 12:26
The inquisition regulates its self, and the ordo hereticus regulates the high lords of terra to a degree.
Age of apostasy has reference to the foundings of each ordos.

The ordo hereticus were founded to ensure no one man could replace the emperor.
The high lords are to "interpret" his will.

Thats pretty much all i know :(

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra
Read that, its got some fun stuff in it ;)

MarcoSkoll
06-02-2014, 15:44
Are you sure it wasn't the Ordo Reductor?
Absolutely - 110% and change.

I had a discussion with several others where we were discussing the "Ordo Redactor" concept of an Ordo that handled information being similar to my own fan-made "Ordo Perditus" - so unless we all had the same hallucination while reading the blog post, it had nowt to do with the Adeptus Mechanicus. :p

Sternguard777
06-02-2014, 21:23
I was mostly using Lexicanum as a basis, they have a list of the Ordos on their Inquisition (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ordo_(Inquisition)#Inquisitorial_Ordos) page. I have the eCodex but I hadn't seen the list in there until now. I could have sworn I'd seen the list on Lexicanum even before the eCodex came out. If someone has a better knowledge of the Dark Heresy Books I would be most appreciative.

Also there are several Ordos on the eCodex list that are described as having an <<unknown>> "Area of Vigilance." Among them are the Ordos: Desolatus, Necros, Senatorum, and Thanatos.

I will admit that I have no knowledge of the older material than that on the internet and in the Inquisition eBook(which I have had but hadn't read all of it till it came up here) but it seems to me that Conclaves, Cabals and such aren't really invalidated by the existence of the minor Ordos. Above all everything I've read seems to emphasize that the Inquisition is a fluid organization and that the Ordos are basically just a fancy way to show what Inquisitors are interested in what tasks. Conclaves, cabals and cells are described as more ad-hoc groups that form when the need for them arises. Such as when a group of Inquisitors want to watch a sector they form a conclave. Or a respected Inquisitor would call a conclave to deal with a specific threat, like a large waagh or hive fleet.

That said there is indeed an Ordo Redactus concerned with editing History, specifically seeking to purge all information on the Inquisition's origins. This often puts them at odds with the Ordo Originatus who seek the truth behind the Inquisition's origins. There is also the Administratum's Historical Revisionist Unit that edits the common member of the Imperium's history books in a suitably 1984-esque manner.

Funnily enough in the list of Ordos in the eCodex is given as an Ordo Redactus report on a record to delete.

Theocracity
06-02-2014, 21:59
I was mostly using Lexicanum as a basis, they have a list of the Ordos on their Inquisition (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ordo_(Inquisition)#Inquisitorial_Ordos) page. I have the eCodex but I hadn't seen the list in there until now. I could have sworn I'd seen the list on Lexicanum even before the eCodex came out. If someone has a better knowledge of the Dark Heresy Books I would be most appreciative.

Also there are several Ordos on the eCodex list that are described as having an <<unknown>> "Area of Vigilance." Among them are the Ordos: Desolatus, Necros, Senatorum, and Thanatos.

I will admit that I have no knowledge of the older material than that on the internet and in the Inquisition eBook(which I have had but hadn't read all of it till it came up here) but it seems to me that Conclaves, Cabals and such aren't really invalidated by the existence of the minor Ordos. Above all everything I've read seems to emphasize that the Inquisition is a fluid organization and that the Ordos are basically just a fancy way to show what Inquisitors are interested in what tasks. Conclaves, cabals and cells are described as more ad-hoc groups that form when the need for them arises. Such as when a group of Inquisitors want to watch a sector they form a conclave. Or a respected Inquisitor would call a conclave to deal with a specific threat, like a large waagh or hive fleet.

That said there is indeed an Ordo Redactus concerned with editing History, specifically seeking to purge all information on the Inquisition's origins. This often puts them at odds with the Ordo Originatus who seek the truth behind the Inquisition's origins. There is also the Administratum's Historical Revisionist Unit that edits the common member of the Imperium's history books in a suitably 1984-esque manner.

Funnily enough in the list of Ordos in the eCodex is given as an Ordo Redactus report on a record to delete.

Agreed. I'm not a big fan of all the new Ordos and prefer the conclave / cabal format for smaller divisions, but I think there's still room in the =I= for minor Ordos. It's a byzantine, secretive and ego-driven power that exists as part of a galactic empire full of byzantine secrets and ego-driven power. There's no reason its organizational structure has to be simple.

MarcoSkoll
07-02-2014, 01:39
I could have sworn I'd seen the list on Lexicanum even before the eCodex came out.
Checking the revision history, no. Prior to the eCodex, the three listed Ordos Minoris were the Sicarius, Sepulturum and Chronos.


... the Ordos are basically just a fancy way to show what Inquisitors are interested in what tasks.
And I don't think that a fancy way to show who's interested in what task works all that well if it just shows they're interested in <<unknown>> tasks.


Conclaves, cabals and cells are described as more ad-hoc groups that form when the need for them arises.
The mini-Ordos described are unlikely to be any less ad hoc than a cabal or cell, and may actually be more so.

Ad hoc literally means "for this" and is to say that something is set up for a specific circumstance (it is also frequently used to describe that something was extemporaneous, but that's implication rather than strict meaning) - and I suspect that circumstances that only need a number of Inquisitors which can be counted on one hand are fairly specific ones.

I have no problem with Inquisitors forming groups on these small scales, but Ordos are more than just any old grouping of Inquisitors - it represents a semi-formal pool of resources and alliances, recognised on a political level.

And some of the Ordos they've set up... hoo boy. I can see there's a need to monitor the Astartes and Mechanicus, but neither is entirely part of the Imperium and both are almost aggressively independent. I would think investigations into either faction should really be a lot more "black ops" than having Ordos specifically designated for sticking their noses in - as is, I can only imagine that a very high percentage of Inquisitors from those Ordos just "vanish" while on an investigation.

Sternguard777
07-02-2014, 02:11
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/07/4u7a8u5y.jpg

This is the table from the eCodex showing the minor Ordos. (Sorry if I'm breaking a rule) It's presented as an Inquisitorial Report about a section of a document that needs shredding by order of the Ordo Redactus. This is all we have for most of these Ordos. An in universe piece of an incomplete document that's itself destined for the shredder. I imagine someone in the shadowy organization that is the Inquisition knows all about the various Ordos and what they do but for us looking into the grim darkness of the far future we have this as a window.


Agreed. I'm not a big fan of all the new Ordos and prefer the conclave / cabal format for smaller divisions, but I think there's still room in the =I= for minor Ordos. It's a byzantine, secretive and ego-driven power that exists as part of a galactic empire full of byzantine secrets and ego-driven power. There's no reason its organizational structure has to be simple.

Exactly the Inquisition is part of the Imperium it makes sense that some of its more shadowy parts are hidden from view. I actually find it fun that some of them are so secret that all we know about parts of it is that there is a separate part designated to watch the other part. It feels like the Inquisition.


Checking the revision history, no. Prior to the eCodex, the three listed Ordos Minoris were the Sicarius, Sepulturum and Chronos.

My point was that the idea of minor Ordos wasn't new from the eCodex. Even if some of the new ones make more sense as Cabals or Conclaves the idea wasn't sprung new from the eCodex. I imagine it made sense to flesh out the idea of them more in the Inquisition Codex when they were writing it. Though looking at the list they seem to be more focused on things that are more than any one group of Inquisitors could focus on. They're Organizations or places that are spread out enough that it does more good for individual Inquisitors to make it their primary expertise than for a group of them to come together and try to solve the problem of them.


And I don't think that a fancy way to show who's interested in what task works all that well if it just shows they're interested in <<unknown>> tasks.

The list that the unknown ones come from is clearly in universe, more likely than not its not unknown to the Inquisition what they do. However someone trying to write a book on the Inquisition will likely find trouble in learning what all the Inquisition does.


The mini-Ordos described are unlikely to be any less ad hoc than a cabal or cell, and may actually be more so.

Ad hoc literally means "for this" and is to say that something is set up for a specific circumstance (it is also frequently used to describe that something was extemporaneous, but that's implication rather than strict meaning) - and I suspect that circumstances that only need a number of Inquisitors which can be counted on one hand are fairly specific ones.

I have no problem with Inquisitors forming groups on these small scales, but Ordos are more than just any old grouping of Inquisitors - it represents a semi-formal pool of resources and alliances, recognised on a political level.

Most of these aren’t small scale. Most of them are they’re big, powerful Organizations in the Imperium itself or phenomena that can’t be dealt with by a single group of Inquisitors. In all likelihood to monitor the Imperial Guard you’d need cabals and conclaves within the Ordo Militarum. There are hundreds of Inquisitors in some of these Ordos. And for good reason.


And some of the Ordos they've set up... hoo boy. I can see there's a need to monitor the Astartes and Mechanicus, but neither is entirely part of the Imperium and both are almost aggressively independent. I would think investigations into either faction should really be a lot more "black ops" than having Ordos specifically designated for sticking their noses in - as is, I can only imagine that a very high percentage of Inquisitors from those Ordos just "vanish" while on an investigation.

Very True, but as you said the need is there, and both organizations are big enough that you would need an entire Ordo to Monitor them. There needs to be more than a group of Inquisitors that come together and decided to start looking more deeply at the Astartes. These are basically a field of study unto themselves. Then when you get a particularly nasty chaper you form a conclave of Inquisitors from the Ordo Astartes to deal with them.

MarcoSkoll
07-02-2014, 10:46
My point was that the idea of minor Ordos wasn't new from the eCodex.
Well, no - I was never going to have been under that misapprehension.


Most of these arenít small scale.
We had a thread on The Conclave forums a few years back where we tried to make an educated guess as to the number of Inquisitors Imperium-wide, and got a guess of a few hundred thousand, although many of them not "field" Inquisitors - one Inquisitor per few planets or so, basically.
Fewer than that and the kinds of concentrations of Inquisitors described in novels, codices and rulebooks are just too preposterous. More than that and having an Inquisitor on your planet starts to become relatively routine.

Now, I don't recall if those numbers from the eCodex are supposed to Imperium-wide, but if they are... well, they are pretty small scale.
My estimate was that any Imperium-wide Ordos Minoris probably couldn't be much smaller than a thousand or so and still really work as an Ordo.


Very True, but as you said the need is there, and both organizations are big enough that you would need an entire Ordo to Monitor them.
They certainly need monitoring, but that's not the same thing as saying you need a distinct Ordo to do so.

There's no reason why monitoring the Astartes or such doesn't fall under the "Enemy within" remit of the Ordo Hereticus. Splitting up starts to beg the question of why we don't have an Ordo Orkus, an Ordo Tyranidum and an Ordo Eldarian (aside from the fact those names are awful).

And the problem with having 50 Inquisitors or so, while it does work out as a plausible-ish one Inquisitor per 20 chapters, is that it means that the Inquisitors are spread really thin.
If an Inquisitor from another Ordo finds a chapter that needs smacking upside the head, no-body knows where the nearest Ordo Astartes Inquisitor is, and you have to run through a trail of seven different neighbouring sector conclaves to find out where one might be, and when you find one, he's months away... and if he wants allies, he visits this sector so rarely that only a few Inquisitors even remember him and his closest friends in the Ordo are just as much effort to find as he was.

In comparison, if a local Hereticus Inquisitor does the job, he might not be a Space Marine specialist, but he's got a dozen firm allies in the local sector or sub-sector conclave who he can call on immediately - some of whom will probably have previous experience working with Space Marines, so they're probably not at all that great a disadvantage.

An Ordo Astartes Inquisitor may be individually more likely than another Inquisitor to uncover these situations, but they're so few that the huge majority of cases of "nasty" chapters will be found and dealt with by the much larger remainder of the Inquisition.

OuroborosTriumphant
07-02-2014, 11:23
There's no reason why monitoring the Astartes or such doesn't fall under the "Enemy within" remit of the Ordo Hereticus. Splitting up starts to beg the question of why we don't have an Ordo Orkus, an Ordo Tyranidum and an Ordo Eldarian (aside from the fact those names are awful).

In fairness, I don't see much call for Inquisitors shining light into the darkness and uncovering the subtle, terrible Orkish threat. Orks are on of those things that doesn't benefit much from the "delicate scalpel" approach of the Inquisition. When a Waagh hits a planet, it tends to be pretty obvious.

(The same is mostly true of the Tyranids, save for the existence of Genestealer cults. I can see the Ordo Larcengenus existing to address the threat of Genestealer cults.)

MarcoSkoll
07-02-2014, 17:53
The Inquisition don't deal in just subtle threats. If they did, they'd never need to wage wars on the level we often see them doing.

The Tyranids are definitely not subtle, but they are a threat to the Imperium on a scale way beyond a rogue Space Marine chapter (after all, hive fleets have waltzed over worlds like Forgefane). The development of Inquisition level anti-Tyranid tactics and weapons really is a must.

Romanov77
07-02-2014, 22:38
Regarding the Grey Knights, I clearly remember a very bad Sandy Mitchell novel where they were standing as sentinels in a Inquisition facility, in very plain sight for everyone outside to see.


Regarding another old novel, I wonder what happened to the Ordo Hydra...

Sternguard777
07-02-2014, 22:56
Well, no - I was never going to have been under that misapprehension.

Very well, glad we are on the same page here.


We had a thread on The Conclave forums a few years back where we tried to make an educated guess as to the number of Inquisitors Imperium-wide, and got a guess of a few hundred thousand, although many of them not "field" Inquisitors - one Inquisitor per few planets or so, basically.
Fewer than that and the kinds of concentrations of Inquisitors described in novels, codices and rulebooks are just too preposterous. More than that and having an Inquisitor on your planet starts to become relatively routine.

Now, I don't recall if those numbers from the eCodex are supposed to Imperium-wide, but if they are... well, they are pretty small scale.
My estimate was that any Imperium-wide Ordos Minoris probably couldn't be much smaller than a thousand or so and still really work as an Ordo.

This is GW we are talking about (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale). You can always rely on them to be off by a few zeroes. To be honest I ignored the actual numbers and focused on how they related to the others on the list. ie The Ordo Militarum being huge in comparison to say the Ordo Barbarus.


They certainly need monitoring, but that's not the same thing as saying you need a distinct Ordo to do so.

There's no reason why monitoring the Astartes or such doesn't fall under the "Enemy within" remit of the Ordo Hereticus. Splitting up starts to beg the question of why we don't have an Ordo Orkus, an Ordo Tyranidum and an Ordo Eldarian (aside from the fact those names are awful).

And the problem with having 50 Inquisitors or so, while it does work out as a plausible-ish one Inquisitor per 20 chapters, is that it means that the Inquisitors are spread really thin.
If an Inquisitor from another Ordo finds a chapter that needs smacking upside the head, no-body knows where the nearest Ordo Astartes Inquisitor is, and you have to run through a trail of seven different neighbouring sector conclaves to find out where one might be, and when you find one, he's months away... and if he wants allies, he visits this sector so rarely that only a few Inquisitors even remember him and his closest friends in the Ordo are just as much effort to find as he was.

In comparison, if a local Hereticus Inquisitor does the job, he might not be a Space Marine specialist, but he's got a dozen firm allies in the local sector or sub-sector conclave who he can call on immediately - some of whom will probably have previous experience working with Space Marines, so they're probably not at all that great a disadvantage.

An Ordo Astartes Inquisitor may be individually more likely than another Inquisitor to uncover these situations, but they're so few that the huge majority of cases of "nasty" chapters will be found and dealt with by the much larger remainder of the Inquisition.

The thing is an Inquisitor won't got looking for another Inquisitor to solve a problem most of the time. Most of the time the first Inquisitor to respond to an Issue will be the one to deal with it. The difference in Ordo doesn't mean an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor is any less equip to deal with space marines if he has proper allies and equipment to do so it just means its not the thing he's doing all the time. After dealing with the uppity chapter (of at most a 1000 Space Marines mind you) he might go seek out Heresy somewhere else or even a rogue psyker. Meanwhile somewhere else in the galaxy an Ordo Astartes Inquisitor just finished up with a different chapter and is looking for another one.

As for Xenos based minor Ordos, its entirely possible. In fact its quite likely. Its just from the little information on the Minor Ordos we've seen we haven't seen any. The one scrap of an in universe list we have doesn't have any on it. For all we know there is an Ordo Tyannicus or an Ordo Veridicute (Latin for green skin, seemed appropriate.) we just have to little information to say. As with any source of 40k fluff distributed by GW we need to logic out the details every now and then and can't always rely on them to give us all the relevant information, especially from in-universe sources.


The Inquisition don't deal in just subtle threats. If they did, they'd never need to wage wars on the level we often see them doing.

The Tyranids are definitely not subtle, but they are a threat to the Imperium on a scale way beyond a rogue Space Marine chapter (after all, hive fleets have waltzed over worlds like Forgefane). The development of Inquisition level anti-Tyranid tactics and weapons really is a must.

They quite likely already have. We know that Kryptman has taken a great interest in them and has already taken great measures to protect humanity from them. It is likely other Inquisitors, yet unnamed are doing the same.

(Ah another prime example of the Inquisition policing itself. Kryptman Exterminatused to many planets and was Excommunicated. His plan was thought to be too costly.)


Also While flipping through the Inquisition codex I found Inquisitor Tyrus who hunts rogue Inquisitors almost as much as witches. Currently he hunts Inquisitor Lichtenstein for his use of the powers of chaos to hunt a race of ancient death worshiping machines...

ntw3001
08-02-2014, 01:07
I looked at the picture from the Codex, and Ordo Desolatus is one Inquisitor? That seems pretty egotistical of that single Inquisitor. I assume it's not some kind of official professional title because of the reasons covered in this thread, so I guess it must be a self-imposed title. If I'd decided to take some very specific secret thing my sole duty, I'd still let people call me Nick.

MarcoSkoll
08-02-2014, 05:41
This is GW we are talking about (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale). You can always rely on them to be off by a few zeroes.
True. My personal interpretation of the WH40K universe messes with the official numbers a lot - Space Marine chapters are an easy example.

Saying the Space Marines turn up on a given planet - well, the official sizes of companies and chapters... these could just about be a game changing addition to an overall force if the circumstances are right (say if there are key targets that will really weaken the overall enemy war effort), but no matter how awesome Space Marines are, the numbers are simply not numerous enough to wage wars on the planetary scales mentioned in the fluff.

I have to expand the numbers a lot, and still throw in millions upon millions of Imperial Guard (or possibly human Chapter auxiliaries) to make up the rest of the numbers to allow Space Marines to wage war on planetary scales. (Using as rough guidelines the numbers of WWI and WWII, ~70 million and 100+ million combatants respectively). There's also considerably more than a thousand chapters in my version of things.

But even scaling some of the values up to fit a more sensible size for the Inquisition, I think the intention is still that some of these Ordos really are just a few people.


The thing is an Inquisitor won't got looking for another Inquisitor to solve a problem most of the time.
Under that logic, then there's no need for Ordos at all. If Inquisitors are lone wolves who almost always deal with their own problems, then the organisation, classification, alliances and resource pool of an Ordo become redundant.

If we don't take Inquisitors to be lone wolves to quite that extent and instead say it's good for them to have the alliances and resource pool - that still means that if it doesn't much matter whether a Hereticus or Astartes Inquisitor deals with the job, then the Astartes Inquisitor doesn't really need to be distinct from the Hereticus Inquisitor. After all, there's no rule that says a Hereticus can't focus on primarily Space Marines - and this would allow him/her to draw on the greater resources and alliances the larger Ordo can offer.

The whole thing would be more workable if membership of an Ordo weren't exclusive - but while I don't think I've ever seen anything that explicitly says it is, it is fairly implicit.


As for Xenos based minor Ordos, its entirely possible. In fact its quite likely.
As possible or likely as it may be, we have yet to see an example.
While it might be tempting to think the Ordo Necros is related to the Necrons, it was formed four millennia before the Necrons were recognised, 5 inquisitors seems really small for such an task (even relative to GW's poor sense of scale) and one has to wonder why such an Ordo would need another Ordo to watch it - so I think it's something else.

Now, I know that the interesting part of the Inquisition is generally the focus on the internal conflicts of the Imperium, but that's an out of universe thing - in universe, one might imagine that the Ordo Tyrannosaurus (or whatever), should it exist, is of more note than miniscule Ordos that do Thor knows what; its absence is somewhat conspicuous.


Also While flipping through the Inquisition codex I found Inquisitor Tyrus who hunts rogue Inquisitors almost as much as witches. Currently he hunts Inquisitor Lichtenstein for his use of the powers of chaos to hunt a race of ancient death worshiping machines...
Well, that's (largely*) old Inquisitor background. It comes from the original... well, I say "battle reports", but really "game narratives" is more accurate... in White Dwarf after they released the game; Rowland Cox using Tyrus from the rulebook and Lichtenstein being Phil Kelly's own creation.
* Death worshipping machines didn't have anything to do with the games; those were about Lichtenstein accidentally unleashing a daemon prince while on the hunt for the Librarium Hereticus.

Perrin
08-02-2014, 06:24
I like to think that the Ordo Desolatus is just a guy in a room on Terra with a big SELF-DESTRUCT button, and his only job is to press it when things get too bad, rage-quit style.

Isn't there something in the GK Codex about some magic button, either on the Throne or on Titan? It had something to do with Malcador as well, maybe it was part of his tomb?

ntw3001
08-02-2014, 14:18
I like to think that the Ordo Desolatus is just a guy in a room on Terra with a big SELF-DESTRUCT button, and his only job is to press it when things get too bad, rage-quit style.

I love this idea. But on the other hand, it seems like something that should be the remit of some terribly secret and important member of the Adeptus Terra (or whatever; basically, someone who is subject to an authority which can actually make demands of them). Inquisitors can't really be appointed to a position like that because of the nature of their station, so I imagine some blustering oaf bursting in on the High Lords, ranting about a special button and he demands to be the one who gets to press the button and by the way they all have to call him the Ordo Desolatus now.

I guess the Inquisition is only really good for troubleshooting; anything really crucial would have to be covered by an organisation with specific official duties.

Colonel Mayhem
08-02-2014, 14:54
Looking at the previous link with all the members of the different ordos. I can't stop thinking Ordo Vigilus is 500 inquisitors assigned to keep an eye on Ordo Necros.

MarcoSkoll
08-02-2014, 15:40
re. The theory about the Desolatus: As shambolic as the Imperium actually is, I can't actually believe that none of the rest of the Inquisition would find out about a single nutjob with the Imperium's self-destruct button and that those that did find out would allow it to happen.

The most plausible way I can use that idea is as a sting operation to lure in Inquisitors who seek such power and remove them.

ntw3001
08-02-2014, 15:51
In my interpretation, they wouldn't have given him the actual button. He's waiting with grim resolve for an emergency lare enough to warrant the button, and when he presses it it'll be something like a boxing glove on a string or one of those guns with a little flag saying 'sucker!'. It's like a retirement plan for crazy Inquisitors.

Marshal_Loss
08-02-2014, 16:33
It would be a never-ending story! The Inquisition are, at the end of the day, the blokes that regulate the Imperium - if an organisation exists to regulate them, where does it end? Besides, they're so hopelessly awful they fit perfect into the 40k setting!

Romanov77
08-02-2014, 21:29
Was it here that someone posted about the Ordo Desolatum's lone inquisitor having the task of watching the Emperor for heresy?

Perrin
08-02-2014, 21:53
Was it here that someone posted about the Ordo Desolatum's lone inquisitor having the task of watching the Emperor for heresy?

That made me laugh. It would seem likely, given the craziness of the Inquisition, keeping a single guy in the throne room just to check the Emperor hasn't started calling himself a False God or something.

BaronDG
14-02-2014, 19:43
Quis custodiat ipsos custodes...

Romanov77
14-02-2014, 21:45
Quis custodiat ipsos custodes...

5 years of Latin studies here, not impressed ;)

OT: BL really did got some clever new words, like "cogitator".

USASOCRanger
17-02-2014, 19:28
Was it here that someone posted about the Ordo Desolatum's lone inquisitor having the task of watching the Emperor for heresy?

Assuming that were the case, what could they possibly do if that lone inquisitor decides, and it is confirmed, that the Emperor is now batting for the other team?

Romanov77
17-02-2014, 21:30
Assuming that were the case, what could they possibly do if that lone inquisitor decides, and it is confirmed, that the Emperor is now batting for the other team?

Dunno, maybe burn him in his eternal sleep?

USASOCRanger
17-02-2014, 22:24
Dunno, maybe burn him in his eternal sleep?

And snuff out the Astronomicon, thus dooming the Imperium to death?

MarcoSkoll
17-02-2014, 23:26
Given that interfering with the Astronomican is about the only heresy could the Emperor possibly be committing in his current state, I doubt that's going to be of importance.

Romanov77
18-02-2014, 21:51
Maybe the resulting psychic death scream would be enough to fuel the Astronomican for eons...or maybe it would just kill every psyker in the Galaxy.

Phunting
20-02-2014, 23:49
But there shouldn't be a "back up plan"?

I mean, Astartes had limitless power, and eventually it brought the Heresy. So they got "regulated". Should be. Isn't.

Quite aside from the valid points of 'self regulation', it took the Heresy to check the power of the Legions, it took the Apostasy to check the power of the Ministorum.

The Imperium is not a proactive place. It's reactive at best, and even then it takes galaxy-spanning civil wars for any real change to come about. If the secret war the Inquisition wages against itself ever became less secret, and turned into a galactic upheaval, when the dust settled something would probably be done to change the Inquisition. Until that happens, no change will.

Romanov77
23-02-2014, 11:14
Just wait for that whole Ordo Hydra stuff to resurface, and I am sure there's going to be some nice regulation coming...

(that stuff is still canon in my own version of the WH40k fluff)

El_Machinae
23-02-2014, 15:55
Given that interfering with the Astronomican is about the only heresy could the Emperor possibly be committing in his current state, I doubt that's going to be of importance.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Hands#The_Moirae_Schism

:cool: