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View Full Version : Multiple shots and the Eagle claw bolt thrower.



SteveW
05-02-2014, 16:29
A game that was going on next to mine had HE's vs. Ogres going at it and this came up. The high elf player was firing his bolt thrower at a unit of Ogre Bulls in the alternate 6 shots firing mode. He was calculating his to hit and came up with 4(BS 4 long range) and his opponent corrected him to 5 for multiple shots. Me, not having control of my mouth blurted out "It doesn't have the Multiple shots special rule, it just has 6 shots". This spawned a debate between the two of them and they settled it by the HE player just firing a regular shot killing three Ogres and panicking them off the table(a much better result than expected).

Well, fellow peanut gallery members, where do you fall on that ruling? Do you agree that a unit must have a special rule for it's effects to be counted? Or should they be grafted on to any similar situation?

FatTrucker
05-02-2014, 16:35
HE bolt thrower doesn't use or have the multiple shots rule. It has its own special rule regarding the penalty for firing multiple bolts (lower strength, single wounds) So no -1 if its using multiple shots.

theunwantedbeing
05-02-2014, 16:39
Seeing as nobody checked the rules at the time when they had the rules available to check, I can write whatever the heck I like and be safe in the knowledge that nobody is going to bother checking the rules now either.
Hopefully everyone else in the thread who replies will keep up with the ruse and you'll go away thinking the wrong thing and everyone can just have a big laugh.

It doesn't have the Multiple shots special rule, so doesn't suffer -1 to hit.

Ramius4
05-02-2014, 17:00
Well, fellow peanut gallery members, where do you fall on that ruling? Do you agree that a unit must have a special rule for it's effects to be counted? Or should they be grafted on to any similar situation?

There is no 'ruling'. They don't have that rule. Multiple Shots is a specific, named rule, so of course you wouldn't use it for a HE bolt thrower since it doesn't have it in the first place.

SteveW
05-02-2014, 17:04
Seeing as nobody checked the rules at the time when they had the rules available to check,
I did.

I can write whatever the heck I like and be safe in the knowledge that nobody is going to bother checking the rules now either.
Hopefully everyone else in the thread who replies will keep up with the ruse and you'll go away thinking the wrong thing and everyone can just have a big laugh. Which one do you think is "the wrong thing" though?


It doesn't have the Multiple shots special rule, so doesn't suffer -1 to hit. Yeah, that's what I said. Or is this the sarcasm? The tone of your post is off putting.

theunwantedbeing
05-02-2014, 17:24
I did.

There's the answer then.

SteveW
05-02-2014, 17:34
There's the answer then.

Im not trying to get what I think the rules say. I wanted to know what others think on it. You're making this rather difficult.

Mr_Rose
05-02-2014, 17:37
Im not trying to get what I think the rules say. I wanted to know what others think on it. You're making this rather difficult.

If that's what you want (pure opinion on whether something should be one way or another) then you're in the wrong place. Try the General board.

orionwoodking
06-02-2014, 02:37
To a certain extent rules must be followed, many people believe the spirit of the game is more important, but in this case the rules clearly weigh out. I wish, but don't think the HE Bolt Thrower has -1 to hit because of multiple shots because it does not have the Multiple Shots special rule. And if one person says HE cheeze...I will agree :P

SteveW
06-02-2014, 04:04
To a certain extent rules must be followed, many people believe the spirit of the game is more important, but in this case the rules clearly weigh out. I wish, but don't think the HE Bolt Thrower has -1 to hit because of multiple shots because it does not have the Multiple Shots special rule. And if one person says HE cheeze...I will agree :P

I don't know of any situations where the spirit of the game(whatever that is) overrides the rules as written.

Blkc57
06-02-2014, 06:18
I don't know of any situations where the spirit of the game(whatever that is) overrides the rules as written.

They are called Worst Play Abuses, Steve. They are the unforgivable sins of Warhammer, that are only produced when no friends need be made and punches are already set to be thrown. They are by right RAW, but by play wrong. And to answer your question above because I constantly must answer this in Tournies when it comes to a cannon's grapeshot, if it does not possess the Multiple Shots rule on its profile, then you do not apply the penalty.

kirkus
06-02-2014, 15:02
Grapeshots automatically hit though, so you wouldn't be rolling to hit and a penalty (if there was one) would have no effect. Or are there grapeshots that actually have to roll to hit and then wound that I am unaware of?

Artiee
06-02-2014, 15:07
Grapeshots have to roll to hit. BRB pg 113. Last para of Firing Grapeshot.

thesoundofmusica
06-02-2014, 15:10
Or are there grapeshots that actually have to roll to hit and then wound that I am unaware of?

Certainly any grapeshot using the rule "grapeshot" from the rulebook.

kirkus
06-02-2014, 15:13
Wow, we've been playing that wrong for so long. I feel like an idiot :)

thesoundofmusica
06-02-2014, 15:19
Wow, we've been playing that wrong for so long. I feel like an idiot :)

No worries. Most probably wont admit but I dare say anyone who's played warhammer over a longer stretch has played a rule wrong. For myself and my group I remember playing charging/combat order wrong a large part of 5th :)

SteveW
06-02-2014, 15:24
No worries. Most probably wont admit but I dare say anyone who's played warhammer over a longer stretch has played a rule wrong. For myself and my group I remember playing charging/combat order wrong a large part of 5th :)

I've played now for 20 years, that means I have played each rule in 4 systems wrong at least once.

T10
07-02-2014, 06:56
Im not trying to get what I think the rules say. I wanted to know what others think on it. You're making this rather difficult.

I fail to grasp the unspoken subject here. You want our thoughts on what exactly?

SteveW
07-02-2014, 06:58
I fail to grasp the unspoken subject here. You want our thoughts on what exactly?
On your take on the rule in question. I think the confusion came from everyone agreeing.

T10
07-02-2014, 07:30
Whether or not the volley fire should come with the Multiple Shots special rule?

I don't think it is necessary: If I recall correctly, the Multiple Shots special rule allows you to make a single shot without taking the penalty th the To Hit roll. However, for weapons that do have the special rule, all shots are made with the same profile. The Elf bolt thrower has two distinct profiles for single-shot attakcs and volley fire attacks.

Also, as an artillery piece the Elf bolt thrower seems like a more stable weapon than most portable weapons with the Multiple Shots rule.

-T10

bigbiggles
07-02-2014, 22:26
It does not have the multiple shots (x) rule. So it fires all shots without the -1 to hit

Squishy1979
07-02-2014, 23:10
It does not have the multiple shots (x) rule. So it fires all shots without the -1 to hit

Thanks....

Avian
07-02-2014, 23:15
If it did actually have the Multiple Shots special rule, it would get an additional -1 to hit penalty, but it would be firing 6 shots at Strength 6, no armour save and doing D3 wounds each.

Thankfully it doesn't have that rule.

bigbiggles
09-02-2014, 05:16
Ooooh, that would be awesome though

N1AK
11-02-2014, 15:01
If it did actually have the Multiple Shots special rule, it would get an additional -1 to hit penalty, but it would be firing 6 shots at Strength 6, no armour save and doing D3 wounds each.


As funny as that could be it wouldn't have been hard for them to give it a special rule: Pincushion Mode which included a different profile with multi-shot(6). I guess they didn't want to give it the -1 to hit and so thought it would be easier this way.

Avian
11-02-2014, 16:31
But the whole thing about Multiple Shots is that it's the *same* ammo, you're just shooting faster, giving you less time to aim.