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View Full Version : Starting a scout heavy army, which chapter should I choose?



cptsoban
09-02-2014, 04:13
Hey Warseer,

Tapping into your collective knowledge for my next army. I love the scout models and want to field a heavy if not all scout force.

What codex should I field them out of?

Also This would be my first marine army so any other advice would be super helpful! Thanks guys!

Losing Command
09-02-2014, 04:25
Probably the standad marine codex. Good pointcost, a dedicated transport option and a choice of chapter tactics too. In the SW one scouts are Elites instead of troops, so that limits their numbers somewhat ;) DA and BA scouts can't take a Landspeeder Storm as transport to zoom around and do driveby's, which is a little sad. But on the other hand BA scouts can get FnP from priests and maybe Fearless from red thirst, while DA scouts can take a Teleporter Homer with them and have Deathwing helping them out on turn one.

ehlijen
09-02-2014, 04:28
The base marine codex gives scouts the most toys, I think.

Telion is available for the Ultramarines (only scout special character I know of) and any Codex Space Marine scouts can take hellfire shells for heavy bolters (not really sure what they're supposed to be good for at their price tag, though).

Space wolves have the best scouts, but they're elites, not troops, so you can't go scout heavy.

Dark Angels may not get scout bikers? I can't remember. I know they don't get normal bikes, only ravenwing ones.

Blood angels get scouts (sans telion) as per the previous marine codex (so slightly less toys than the current one).

madprophet
09-02-2014, 06:32
Vanilla Marine Codex - Scythes of the Emperor chapter is a good place to start, FW has special rules for them available in their Downloads section

MajorWesJanson
09-02-2014, 07:55
Thematically, Raven Guard work well with scouts.

Tebrey
09-02-2014, 09:05
Codex Space Marine scouts can take hellfire shells for heavy bolters (not really sure what they're supposed to be good for at their price tag, though).

You're joking, right? a few points for a 2+ poisoned hvy bolter? With riptides and wraith units around?

Promethius
09-02-2014, 09:22
Vanilla Marine Codex - Scythes of the Emperor chapter is a good place to start, FW has special rules for them available in their Downloads section

I just had a look and I can't see the download but I agree Scythes of the Emperor are a very good chapter to look to for a scout themed force. Crimson Fists probably have quite a few also.

The scythes also have scout 'reclaimer squads' who board 'nid ships to try to find traces of their lost brethren and reclaim equipment etc. You could do a mixture of raw recruits to more hardened scout squads (maybe using Telion) to represent this.

ehlijen
09-02-2014, 10:15
You're joking, right? a few points for a 2+ poisoned hvy bolter? With riptides and wraith units around?

A HB which does nothing to their armour saves? I'd rather have a sniper rifle and hope for some rending then. The shells are fun in concept (I use them) but effectiveness wise they're seriously confused about what they want to be.

A hellfire shell doesn't have the AP to reliably deal with tough targets. It doesn't have the shots to get through wounds quickly. It doesn't have higher S to deal with things the regular HB can't easily wound or to get through AV any better. About the only good thing it does is get a decent number of hits against hordes without relying on the scout BS3 too much. But a missile launcher can also get a blast that's good enough against hordes and is much more flexibile for barely more points.

It's not that the hellfire shells are bad. It's just that given a scout's other options, they don't really offer much that's desirable.

Beppo1234
09-02-2014, 13:49
Take the DA scouts, so that they can call in the specialist squads one they've done their scout stuff!

pantsukki
09-02-2014, 13:51
while DA scouts can take a Teleporter Homer with them and have Deathwing helping them out on turn one.

No they can't. For some idiotic reason the Homer isn't an option for them.

Fangschrecken
09-02-2014, 17:48
If you do vanilla codex, the best chapter tactic is probably Raven Guard, for the stealth, but as you won't be jumping their other tactics don't help much. Depending on what weapons you take, IF bolter drill would be a nice edge. If you go bike heavy white scars would work; and the infantry get hit and run too. The other chapter tactics will help, but don't do anything specific.

Now, if you included Forge World chapter tactics (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/B/FWchaptertactics-v2.pdf) then the Raptors are better for scout units than the raven guard if your going shooty. The Mantis Warriors are better for melee scouts.

But it's all up to you. If you want your squads led by half machine Iron Hands vets then do that (your paper thin landspeeder storms would be harder to kill too...). Or if you want aspiring duelists leading the men then take Black Templars, or Executioners.

Latro_
09-02-2014, 19:44
I was gonna do a scout list

You wanna max out on scout bikers and grab plenty of cluster mines and tri-grenade launchers
Have a unit of sniper scouts

Then a bunch of LS storms with heavy flamers maybe a multi melta or two for anti tank.

Should be a very fast and fun army with some dirty tricks from the mines and storms.

I'd maybe go with iron hands since the IWND might prove nice to keep the storms going and since scouts are low pts you'll have a lot of them so the 6+ fnp might be nice.

RunepriestRidcully
09-02-2014, 19:57
Exorcists could be cool. Must admit those chapter tactics make the chaos player in me even more annoyed at the copy and paste job of a codex that is the chaos 6th ed one. They do look nice though.

anselminus
09-02-2014, 20:06
Raven guards with Korvydae?

Dr.Clock
10-02-2014, 06:54
I started a scout heavy list a few editions ago. The problem you quickly run into in larger games is that the basic scout profile just isn't that threatening. At the end of the day, their lack of special weapons and BS/WS3 makes them a unit for which you encounter the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly.

I really like the idea of such a list, however, and it ended up being more like a '1st and tenth', or '8th/9th and 10th' type of force, with more specialized battle brothers supported by a few larger scout squads.

Raven Guard will give you the ability to get infantry into position faster, and make any jump infantry a bit more helpful.

However, if you look to the Forgeworld Chapter Tactics, I think you'll find that the Mantis Warriors entry gives you more to actually positively impact the scouts themselves... giving them Hammer of Wrath themselves, as well as potentially Furious Charge if they assault out of cover. It also unlocks Divination which can be a great help on Librarians.

Fire Hawks are also worth considering... While it won't help the scouts directly, it gives you access to non-tactical scoring units for increased 'non-linear' deployment for an '8th and 10th' flavour. Drop pod, scoring assault squads with S5 flamers when they come in could be nice, as is S5 HoW. Access to hand flamers is just fun.

Anyhow, good luck with this... I'd personally go for Mantis Warriors and see how that goes for a bit.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Camman1984
10-02-2014, 12:42
A friend of mine has an all scouts mantis warrior force, its pretty cool and the charging out of cover with furios charge and impact hits is actually quite nasty, yeah they are only WS3 but that doesnt make a massive difference and they get a free hit on the charge along with str5 and 3 attacks each, for relatively few points.

Divination is a great discipline too, enough to warrant the switch to mantis warriors before any of the other bits. Their special character librarian is also pretty cool and worth a look.

Bloodangeldante
10-02-2014, 15:29
Blood angels, because they have the red thirst and "and they shall know no fear" universal special rule


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hobojebus
10-02-2014, 16:35
Crimson fists after all the ork's killed most of their fully initiated member's, so as they are still rebuilding it makes sense they'd have alot of scout's.

NemoSD
10-02-2014, 17:54
Also if it is just the models you are interested, run them as Imperial Guard Vets, and do a Guard Mech or Elite list.

Odin
11-02-2014, 00:18
No they can't. For some idiotic reason the Homer isn't an option for them.

Because teleport homers aren't handed out like candy and the DAs use the Ravenwing to scout for the Deathwing?

Chem-Dog
11-02-2014, 01:16
A HB which does nothing to their armour saves? I'd rather have a sniper rifle and hope for some rending then. The shells are fun in concept (I use them) but effectiveness wise they're seriously confused about what they want to be.

The problem is more the "Big things must have many armour" paradigm GW insists on working to a few more high T - bad save units and a few more Low T high save units would be a great improvement and add for greater scope IMO. Lets have an army clad in 2+ saves because it's got a T of 2, or an army that's so big and burly that it can't be bothered building and putting on armour.

I reckon the SM codex is your best most flexible option, you can take scout bikers in addition fot foot scouts and you can even zip a few squads about in Storms. Take a Captain and a Chaplain and you have yourself the 10th Company out on training/manoeuvres.
I quite like the idea of the Captain and his command squad being deployed in a Storm Raven, watching his neophytes and ready to intercede where needed.
Ultra Marines Chapter Tactics would give you access to a majority of the named characters if a Psyker+1 and indestructible Chaplain or a Duellist-Captain take your fancy, but whichever way you slice it, you're going to be hard pressed to find a better starting point for a scout-centric force than C:SM.

Charistoph
11-02-2014, 03:44
Ultra Marines Chapter Tactics would give you access to a majority of the named characters if a Psyker+1 and indestructible Chaplain or a Duellist-Captain take your fancy, but whichever way you slice it, you're going to be hard pressed to find a better starting point for a scout-centric force than C:SM.

Telion would be the ONLY reason I would recommend UM Tactics if your Troops and FA are all Scouts. They really are focused more on having a classic Battle Company formation.

Not including him, Fists are good due to Bolter Drill, Iron Hands are good for having everyone 'being a Medic in Training', and Raven Guard are good with first turn Stealth, plus some nasty bonuses if the Captain and his Trainers are all on Jump Packs.

White Scars can work well if you lean more towards filling the Scout Bikers, plus a good excuse to have a Captain and Command on Bikes.

Salamanders... well, let's just say, you won't have all the tools you want, but can be useful against another Salamanders force.

Unless you like Running, Templars would generally be less effective, but those Scout Sergeants can a fun surprise to someone who engaged the unit.

Angels can do fine, but, neither have the Storm to support the Scouts very well, but their other options can be pretty nasty.

And the Wolves... well... They can be a fun Ally having Claws being the Scouts in their 'Graduation Battle' or 'Advanced Gear Training' with some Wolf Scouts there to be the field trainers.

shabbadoo
11-02-2014, 08:03
Raven Guard, Crimson Fists, and Ultramarines (all of Codex: Space Marines) have known historical events which led to them having a large number of Scouts at various times. The Flesh Tearers of Codex: Blood Angels and the Angels of Vengeance of Codex: Dark Angels are others. One of the Codex: Space marines chapters would be the better choice, as it allows more options with the inclusion of both the Land Speeder Storm and Scout Bike Squad units (Codex: Dark Angels includes neither; Codex: Blood Angels only the latter).

pantsukki
11-02-2014, 19:37
Because teleport homers aren't handed out like candy

Tell that to all marines using the vanilla codex.


and the DAs use the Ravenwing to scout for the Deathwing?

Yeah, and also in one of their iconic stories (Battle for Piscina) Naaman, together with other Scouts, calls down Terminators from the orbit using a Teleport Homer.

Odin
12-02-2014, 14:54
Tell that to all marines using the vanilla codex.



Yeah, and also in one of their iconic stories (Battle for Piscina) Naaman, together with other Scouts, calls down Terminators from the orbit using a Teleport Homer.

Fair point.

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Senbei
12-02-2014, 15:59
How about Celestial Lions? Weren't they meant to be in 'srs recruit' mode after getting ground down to about 10 Marines total?

budman
12-02-2014, 16:03
Iron Hands hear me out on this

First up That fnp is far more likley to be used on a 4+ save than a 3+ save
2nd given scouts are cheaper you are gonna have more point for dreads and tanks ect that get IWND

Camman1984
12-02-2014, 18:40
I think if you are trying to save points so you can buy more tanks and dreads, the scout theme starts to dilute quite quickly.

budman
13-02-2014, 08:35
I think if you are trying to save points so you can buy more tanks and dreads, the scout theme starts to dilute quite quickly.

Your not trying to save points but using the extra points on some thing

Eldartank
13-02-2014, 23:01
Hey Warseer,

Tapping into your collective knowledge for my next army. I love the scout models and want to field a heavy if not all scout force.

What codex should I field them out of?

Also This would be my first marine army so any other advice would be super helpful! Thanks guys!

CRIMSON FISTS!!!! :) I'm sure someone has already mentioned this, but I can't resist saying it myself. Especially since I have a Crimson Fists army. Mine has a variety of units, but I do have a couple Scout squads. I plan on building more Scout squads, because "scout heavy" fits the Crimson Fists storyline perfectly. The Chapter was nearly wiped out, and are in the process of rebuilding, so Crimson Fists would be perfect for a Scout heavy army.