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View Full Version : Viability of 5 NecroSphinx/War Sphinx Army



Dark_Kindred
09-02-2014, 05:02
So, I have a friend who is looking to start a Tomb Kings army. Trouble is that he is new to WHFB...and so am I for that matter. So we were talking and discussing the cost of Tomb Kings. Lots of garbage stuff that's very costly to purchase, even with Godsends like Ebay. Then we started talking about the Necro/War Sphinxes. They (and Ushatbi)are what appealed to him in the first place. This is a thumbnail sketch of what we came up with. We also understand that cannons are extremely good against monsters but hey, there's always something!

2400 Points

Tomb King + kit
Lvl 4 High Priest + kit
2 Level 2 Priests, one dispel scroll + kit
Perhaps a Necrotech

Warrior Bunker
Two or three fairly large blobs of skeleton archers
Chariots

Blob of Tomb Guard
(Possibly) Ushatbi (probably with bows)
War Sphinx w/ breath
War Sphinx w/ breath
War Sphinx w/ breath

Necro Sphinx
Necro Sphinx
Casket of Souls

The basic idea it to create a somewhat fast army that can hit extremely hard (and cost less). The lion's share of the damage would initially come from the War/Necro Sphinxes. Depending on how the enemy deploys, Terror can be used to corral enemy units and hopefully cause multiple Break Tests. Actual combat with so many monsters would be...bad... for most infantry. We also realized that chaff/skirmishers would be a problem and so we thought that archers would be needed to help clear the way. The followup blow would come from a horde of Tomb Guard, who would be able to hit extremely hard, especially with My Will Be Done. The Ushatbi, although regarded as "God awful" could be a flavorful addition. And the Necrotech would be a cheap way to bolster those constructs.

SteveW
09-02-2014, 06:31
They are great models and Mr. Malorian has a few Tomb King batreps running a monster mash list like the one you want to do. IMO, they don't do very well because everything can wound on a 6 and cannon still wound T8 creatures on a 2. So those monsters look good on paper but with crumbling, no marching, and poor armor saves they dies quicker than they should.

SSquirrel
09-02-2014, 23:08
Of course the odds they can kill all 5 before they get across the board is minimal unless you are playing a dedicated gunline, and even then they would need some fantastic luck. Worst case, you have an army that looks pretty awesome and you can swap some monsters for other things down the line

KimikoPT
10-02-2014, 23:40
You can also 6-dice Casket on a WM, especially Cannons, to get rid of them.

Yamabushi
11-02-2014, 02:02
For anti-chaff, Tomb Kings can use:

Archers
Carrion
Tomb Scorpion (not entombed)
Casket of Souls

For Warmachine hunting, you can consider:

Horse Archers
Tomb Scorpion (entombed)
Sepulchral Stalkers
Casket of Souls

Hoilismad
11-02-2014, 19:52
I've played a Tomb Kings army where I ran two Warpspinxes and a Necrosphinx and here's the basic problems. Everthing can wound you on a 6. If you get into combat with even poor troops, like Clan Rats, they'll roll a 6 or two occassionally and only saving on a 5 means you're probably going to take a wound. Being WS4 helps to mitigate the amount of hits, but what is frustrating about a list like this is it can really minimize the amount you can influence over winning and losing. If they roll 6's to wound, you lose the game pretty fast. On the other hand, I've had one Warsphinx eat a horde of Saurus because my opponent couldn't roll 6's to save his life. I would try to make a more balanced list. Necrosphinxes are not very good. Take two Khemrian's and add in some ushabti and necro knights instead of the Necrosphinxes.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
12-02-2014, 02:00
The REAL problem with warsphinxes is that they don't hit as hard as one would hope and expect, and have unstable. The sphinx is only WS4 S5, the riders drop down to S4 after the charge bump. Thunderstomp is great, but you can roll low and again it's only S5. T8 is solid, but as others have said it only takes some lucky 6's to get wounds through. If the enemy sneaks a wound or two through and your sphinx has a slightly lower-than-expected combat turn, then with SCR thrown into the mix you might well crumble that last wound.

Which isn't to say they're terrible. I have a warsphinx and absolutely love it. But like scorpions, I can just never find room for one. Snakes and halberd guard are better at filling the roles I need, and there's just not space for a warsphinx at the end of that.

So yeah the monster-mash list can work. But...meh. It doesn't actually hit all that hard, and struggles to deal with things like demis and bloodcrushers. And cannon-heavy armies will wipe it off the table, as will skink clouds and other shooting-heavy lists.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
12-02-2014, 02:32
To expand on that, here's some general points:

Tomb guard aren't functional in units of less than 30, and really need a utility hero to make them better. Many people throw a Destroyer of Eternities King in there (with OTS) to give that unit options, but I personally think he's really overrated and expensive. I prefer prince with GW and defensive kit, or Ramhotep if you allow special characters.

For core, skeleton warriors are best in units of 60+ with a prince or 80+ without, horded in both cases unless they're up against a really killy unit. They're a very solid anvil, and can grind a great number of units down over a number of turns, but struggle against things with high toughness or armour.

Competing with skeletons in core are chariots. Units of 6-7 are best, with the flaming banner as appropriate. These are more of a hammer unit, and a very fragile one at that, so which you choose depends really on your list.

In special there are really only two standout options. There's tomb guard, and then there's necroknights. Knights aren't as fragile, though they're certainly more fragile than their stats suggest. Add Ramhotep, however, and these things become the hardest anvil our army can muster. The cost is that you can only take one unit, and can't take any other constructs (notably no hierotitan, no scorpions).

People have different views on Tomb Guard. I swear by ~33 with halberds, razor standard, and Ramhotep. They crack armour as well as Ushabti do, but synergize better with our lore and can hold characters.


For chaff we have many options, but only one is a true standout. Carrion are flying ogres with 2 wounds, and are amazing. Scorpions deep-strike and have T5. Swarms have loads of wounds. But the best of them all, by far, are horse archers. First of all they're core, and our core is so cheap that you'll struggle to fill that minimum 25% allotment in many cases. But much more importantly they can BOTH scout AND vanguard. It's hard to convey just how important that is. You get to place them AFTER your opponent has deployed pretty much his entire army, so can block however you see fit, and place them however you like. But more importantly you can block vanguarders by placing them 12" in front. So basically for 140 points you can deny your opponent vanguard. In an army that can only move 4" and relies heavily on ranged attacks that is huge. HUGE.


As for archers...eh. I use them as a bunker for my wizards (minimum 20). I can see the argument for more...but...again...meh. They're really only good at dealing with chaff (which shouldn't be dismissed) and things like witch elves, but against the armies we really struggle against (warriors and ogres) they won't do sweet jack all. Bowshabti are even worse. S6 that hits on 5's is really lacklustre, and they're even more lacklustre in combat. You'll have trouble getting your points out of that unit.


For wizards I swear by two level 4s, as do many other TK players. If you're running death then never leave home without two skullapults. The special character casters are also both amazing. Khatep isn't as glitzy but he is incredibly reliable, which is very important for an army that lives and dies by the magic phase. Arkhan is a powerhouse, and many people swear by him as well. I prefer Khatep's toolkit to Arkhan's raw offensive capability, but that's just me.

But most importantly, send your friend over to the Khemri forums! There's a lot of great people over there, and we've all banged our heads hard against this army book and cobbled together the best we can out of it. You'll be hard to find that level of collective wisdom anywhere else on the internet.

Yamabushi
12-02-2014, 05:25
+1 to what PRNoD said.

Join us at http://tomb-kings.net/

ARabidNun
12-02-2014, 05:32
I may have overlooked if someone has added this, but with so many constructs why not take the hero that gives regen to all constructs in 12"? I usually bunker him in a unit (he gives hatred to the unit as well) and try to keep the constructs in the bubble. I agree that runing a list like this is difficult given all of the disadvantages, but if his heart is set on it you need to run them side by side. One alone is usally not sufficient to hit hard enough, and throw in some units for redirecting to avoid the charges from units you need to avoid.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
12-02-2014, 21:24
Because 60 points for 6+ regen is crap. You take a 'tect to give your Tomb Guard hatred. Everything else is a bonus.

If your friend is dead-set on running this list then let him know that, while it's certainly not optimal, it's not...terrible. It's got lots of moving pieces that are all reasonably quick, and can apply pressure where he needs them to. It'll auto-lose against lists with lots of cannons or poison, but it'll put up a good fight against most other armies.