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Etienne de Beaugard
09-02-2014, 17:52
After an 8+ year hiatus, I am contemplating returning to WHFB in some form, and I would appreciate the assistance of the Warseer community in understanding the current state of the game. I have done searching on the forums and the internet in general, but would appreciate your help in getting concise answers.

Before the questions, allow me to provide some background. I was a Bretonnian player during late 5th and most of 6th edition, but quit the game due to changes in life circumstances and frustration with the direction GW was taking the game (pricing being the large concern). While I enjoyed WHFB, I preferred Mordheim, if I could get someone else to play. Fundamentally I prefer small medieval skirmish games.

As my life patterns have again shifted, I see an opportunity to return to wargaming. I would love to play historicals, but the store groups/clubs in my area are dominated by 40k and WHFB. While I'm not a fan of the current WHFB edition (random charge, funky terrain effects, and focus on fantastic beasts) I considering making a single army that I can use for a game, if I feel so inclined.

With this in mind...

1) I've seen mentions in a GW quarterly reports thread of Warhammer Skirmish being revived in the near future, but I have found a thread on this. What is the credibility/status of these rumors? (A link to a thread would be great.)

If I return to WHFB, I will be making an Empire army using Perry Miniatures plastics. I prefer the more subdued style of the Perry's work, and I plan to avoid using GW minis due to pricing concerns. So...

2) What is the current points range for most pick-up games? (It was 2k back in my day.)

3) Can anyone suggest a site or thread that provides suggestions for building up an empire army 500 point increments, that allows the army to be played as it is being built up?

4) While tooling around the web, I've seen a lot of lists with a Steam Tank, Demigryph Knights and a Hurricanum. Using Perry historicals will create issues fielding these units. Does the Empire have competitive builds which focus on human troops/artillery, and if so, can someone point me to examples?

5) Do I need the current BRB, or will a 2nd hand mini-book and an army book do the trick?

6) What's the best way to acquire a discounted army book copy (legal copy of course)? Ebay?

Thank you for all your feedback and assistance.

Mozzamanx
09-02-2014, 18:05
1) Still in the Rumours stage. I think some of the more reliable rumour-mongers have supported it but there probably won't be any 'proof' until summer.
2) Typically 2400-2500pts.
3) I'd imagine http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/ (the Empire) would be a good place to start digging.
4) Cannons are pretty beefy right now, in fact you'll find several hundred posts complaining about them in this very forum! Helblasters are also very delicious right now, but sadly the Mortar has fallen out of fashion. Empire Halberdiers are quite popular and form the basis of quite a few lists, but the shooty infantry leaves quite a bit to desire.
5) The mini-book is fine. All it lacks are the fluffy bits and the photo gallery.
6) I'd think eBay is your best bet. If you don't mind waiting 2-3 months you could also wait until Total Wargamer has a sale on, but the delivery times and customer support are atrocious. In retrospect, choose eBay.

Bingo the Fun Monkey
09-02-2014, 18:06
In all honesty, I think you should look harder for a historical gaming group. They're less visible, but you can find them in most towns. It doesn't seem like you like the warhammer world or the game and have no intention of using any gw minis; so why sink money and time into something you already know has limits to your enjoyment? Furthermore, your preference for skirmish style games is worth examining as there are lots of elegant and supported skirmish games nowadays. To answer your questions: try warhammerempire.com. the small rules booklet is preferable to the brb. A lot of online retailers discount their GW stuff 20% or more so look around. Good luck.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Smooth Boy
09-02-2014, 23:41
Mozzamanx has pretty much answered everything. unfortunately if price was an issue in the past the problem has not been alleviated. Perry mini's may be cheaper but empire in particular requires enormous blocks of 50+ to be effective and core troops just keep creeping down in point costs. obviously this only applies if you're looking to be fairly competitive. I'm not one for turning away WFB recruits but as Bingo says you defiantly sound more inclined to historical. Good luck with whatever you choose.

Lord Solar Plexus
12-02-2014, 07:36
Smooth Boy, that is completely wrong: Empire does not need 50+ models per block at all; it doesn't even need infantry. With 40 model Perry boxes, prices aren't a huge issue if you actually want that many, even though you get a lot of archers. Lastly, core troops are not at all going down in point costs, they've been going up.

I think you better get your facts straight the next time. :rolleyes:

Spiney Norman
12-02-2014, 08:22
Smooth Boy, that is completely wrong: Empire does not need 50+ models per block at all; it doesn't even need infantry. With 40 model Perry boxes, prices aren't a huge issue if you actually want that many, even though you get a lot of archers. Lastly, core troops are not at all going down in point costs, they've been going up.

I think you better get your facts straight the next time. :rolleyes:

With respect, if you are going to run core combat state troops they need to be in fairly extreme numbers to achieve anything, 50 is pretty standard for Halberdiers or Spearmen with swordsmen getting away with slightly smaller blocks (but never less than 30) due to their more defensive nature.

While it is possible to run Empire sans infantry for me that massively takes away from the character of the army, I don't want to be running the much-hated 2+AS spam list.

Lord Solar Plexus
12-02-2014, 08:59
With respect, if you are going to run core combat state troops


Please stop right there. I'll break it down so that you can follow:

"empire in particular requires enormous blocks of 50+ to be effective"

"No, Empire in particular does not require."

Yes, if you run big units of 50 you will need big units of 50. :rolleyes: That is not a problem with Perry boxes - just buy a couple.

Smooth Boy
12-02-2014, 15:30
Alright well sorry I didn't realise how cheap Perry was, looks like price won't be a major issue OP. However if you're building an Empire army that is focused on human troop/artillery there's still a fair chance you'll run large units in 2000pts games. I still think through if you're not keen on magic, monsters and other fantasy staples perhaps historical may be more up your street. But obviously its up to you, if no one in your area plays the period and you don't feel like starting a group then I guess Fantasy is the only option.

Echunia
12-02-2014, 16:14
4) While tooling around the web, I've seen a lot of lists with a Steam Tank, Demigryph Knights and a Hurricanum. Using Perry historicals will create issues fielding these units. Does the Empire have competitive builds which focus on human troops/artillery, and if so, can someone point me to examples?


While the demigryphons + light council empire lists are very popular right now they do not invalidate the classic infantry based army. One of the main advantages of 8theds seeming randomness is that list design has less of an impact than it had in say 7th ed.

One guy in my local meta has been running an infantry empire list to great effect for quite some time now, although this may come down to him being a very good player. His list revolves around a center of 2 hordes of 50 halbediers each flanked by a 20 halbedier detachment with packs of 5-10 archers as the other detachments and general redirectors. The list hinges on supporting the 2 hordes completely, each are accompanied by a general/bsb which gives them the cold blooded rule for breaktests and also 1 or more warrior priests/archlectors for hatred and prayers. For the rest of the list he basically sprinkels in whatever he feels like using, normally not a lot of magic as his oppinion about WHFB is very similar to yours. Some of the favorites are a couple of cannons and helblasters with engineers. As flankers he usually has a block of knights or demigryphons but they are not an integral part of the list. I think his main strategy is to use the detachments to force his opponents into "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations. Basically he offers them crappy charges which puts them in horrible positions but if they don't charge he can shell them more or get good charges himself. This is made possible by the detachments being steadfast (works kinda like stubborn if you don't know the rule) as long as the parent unit is out of combat, so if you don't kill the entire detachment you stick on them. Or if you charge the main unit the detachment can charge you in the flank thereby removing your ranks and generating lots of extra combat res.

Now conventional knowledge says that this list will not work and people here will probably poke a lot of holes in it but I have yet to see anyone defeat him convincingly, which atleast counts for something. Anyway ramble over.

TL;DR
Infantry Empire works really well regardless of what the internet says.

nickdahkwik
12-02-2014, 18:30
If you would be at all interested I have a box of some extra GW Spearmen and handgunners I can give you an exact count later when home from work.

I would be reasonable in price no GW pricing!

I can also take pics send to you leave me your email.

Kingly
12-02-2014, 18:52
I should just.point out as well that the Perry range on the net dont line up well against GW i have an example in my Plog, so be cateful there as I was convinced by posters on here it was a great way to go and it isnt, so when you line up against other armies uours will look out of place in mine and local mates opinions. But if you dont mind that obviously fill yer boots!

Lars Porsenna
13-02-2014, 04:18
I want to agree with one of the previous posters: it might be better to just look harder for historical gamers. I did much as the OP is talking about. I built a Bretonnian army using mostly historical figures (and a few of the 2nd Gen 5e Bret infantry). I used mainly figures from Front Rank for this, which mixes with GW fairly well in terms of size and bulk (on that note, perhaps look at FR WotR figures, great sculpts, though of course not as cheap as they are metal). In the end I abandoned the scheme, because what I found out is that I really just wanted to play historical HYW games, and have done so since.

Damon.