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View Full Version : BA/wolf chapter traits? also fix your book



havik110
10-02-2014, 16:38
okay so while we are waiting on our new books I am trying to figure out a chapter trait...originally this was going to be just for the BA but I added wolves since they may get a book before BA...

anyways for BA, im thinking we need to get a cover save/invuln/-1 to hit save the turn we deepstrike with jump packs...think of bikes and their cover save, now think of a marine dropping from a thunderhawk and hitting the ground...its going to kick up some dust...(personally I am a fan of modifiers over coversaves - hard cover has its place but having a foot in a piece of terrain does not give me a magic save)

I would also give them the ability to assault on the turn they deep strike on the roll of a 6 with modifiers...HQ in the squad +1, chappy +1...

also, they mephy, the sanginor, and tycho hang out with friends...

Langdon
10-02-2014, 16:51
okay so while we are waiting on our new books I am trying to figure out a chapter trait...originally this was going to be just for the BA but I added wolves since they may get a book before BA...

anyways for BA, im thinking we need to get a cover save/invuln/-1 to hit save the turn we deepstrike with jump packs...think of bikes and their cover save, now think of a marine dropping from a thunderhawk and hitting the ground...its going to kick up some dust...(personally I am a fan of modifiers over coversaves - hard cover has its place but having a foot in a piece of terrain does not give me a magic save)

I would also give them the ability to assault on the turn they deep strike on the roll of a 6 with modifiers...HQ in the squad +1, chappy +1...

also, they mephy, the sanginor, and tycho hang out with friends...

I would think that Decent of Angels will be kept the same and Vanguard Vets will get the heroic Intervention in C: SM

They wouldn't give one book a Charge turn 1 advantage, as they will lose far more than they gain.

Gilfred The Iron Knight
10-02-2014, 16:54
BA. Red Thirst and Decent of Angels.

SW. Uber grit, Acute senses and Counter attack.

Plus some unique units of Death company, sang priests, wolf scouts, and thunderwolves.

Charistoph
10-02-2014, 18:04
I would think that Decent of Angels will be kept the same and Vanguard Vets will get the heroic Intervention in C: SM

They wouldn't give one book a Charge turn 1 advantage, as they will lose far more than they gain.

Agreed. If they make any changes to it, it would be to include the ability for Land Raiders to Deep Strike and just take it off the specific unit's special rules.


BA. Red Thirst and Decent of Angels.

Agreed. Some of the actual wording may change, like Descent adding the Raven Guard's Jump benefit to it, but that's pretty much it.


SW. Uber grit, Acute senses and Counter attack.

Acute Senses would be rather is useless on most of the SW units, this would most probably change to just Night Fighting, increased bubble for Infiltration denial, or similar. Counter Attack, I could see staying, it's been there the whole time. Uber grit, unless they are being a supplement, I don't see it, as they just made it a Wargear thing in the last/current codex and is actually better over all.

Edit: Of course, they could replace Acute Senses with something like Wolf Hunt: Units with this Chapter Tactic have the Outflank and Acute Senses special rules.

havik110
10-02-2014, 18:46
BA. Red Thirst and Decent of Angels.

SW. Uber grit, Acute senses and Counter attack.

Plus some unique units of Death company, sang priests, wolf scouts, and thunderwolves.

compared to the chapter tactics that always happen, (raven guard with better HoW, ultras with their reroll, sallys with their armor reroll against flamers) a 1 in 6 chance to get fearless and lose ATSKNF is a pretty crappy chapter trait...I can see DOA as a chapter trait and could see it turned into a death wing assault/drop pod assault type deal...but im looking for useful traits that make them better than they are now...

I think being able to assault off of deepstrike when using DOA could be a trait or something a special character brings to the table...

I would also like to see more chapter masters brought in...Lord Sentikan from angels sanguine, Orloc from the blood drinkers, Castellan Zargo from the angels encarmine...there was also a dreadnought chapter master which could be cool...each one bringing a little flavor to his chapter...

Charistoph
10-02-2014, 18:53
compared to the chapter tactics that always happen, (raven guard with better HoW, ultras with their reroll, sallys with their armor reroll against flamers) a 1 in 6 chance to get fearless and lose ATSKNF is a pretty crappy chapter trait...I can see DOA as a chapter trait and could see it turned into a death wing assault/drop pod assault type deal...but im looking for useful traits that make them better than they are now...

I think being able to assault off of deepstrike when using DOA could be a trait or something a special character brings to the table...

I would also like to see more chapter masters brought in...Lord Sentikan from angels sanguine, Orloc from the blood drinkers, Castellan Zargo from the angels encarmine...there was also a dreadnought chapter master which could be cool...each one bringing a little flavor to his chapter...

You mean like Dark Angels got with Grim Resolve and Inner Circle? Sorry, I really doubt we'll see something like what you're presenting as a Chapter Trait.

But no, I definitely don't see the classic Heroic Intervention continuing as a general thing. At best, only their Vanguard will have it instead of ignoring a Disordered Charge or a special Vanguard sergeant, and even that is likely to not happen outside of a Slate. Most other special characters from other chapters would be reserved for Supplements.

Camman1984
10-02-2014, 19:15
I think descent of angels is a great chapter tactic, good for dropping marines behind cover but close enough to jumo over next turn, or to get real close for flame/melta attacks. They would also need a second chapter tactic though, maybe all of their rhino hulls are fast but cost normal SM prices (that one might be too much for a CT, but then white scars exist so who knows).

Counter attack, nightfighting, grit, and prefered enemy cats seem like pretty obvious choices for space wolves.

insectum7
10-02-2014, 20:07
Counter attack, nightfighting, grit, and prefered enemy cats seem like pretty obvious choices for space wolves.

Ahh, the long rumored new faction is revealed. .. The Kilrathi!

superdupermatt
10-02-2014, 20:17
Red Thirst also grants Furious Charge, not just Fearless. This should be pointed out before you say 'red thirst is rubbish compared to ATSKNF'. Just saying.

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Charistoph
10-02-2014, 20:29
Ahh, the long rumored new faction is revealed. .. The Kilrathi!

If only, if only.

Not that it really matters, their homeworld was destroyed in M2, LONG before the Age of Strife happened. At best, they would be a partner race of the Tau ala the Demiurge and Nicassar.

Carras
10-02-2014, 21:00
Edit: Of course, they could replace Acute Senses with something like Wolf Hunt: Units with this Chapter Tactic have the Outflank and Acute Senses special rules.

:D sounds about right.

Aside from that, I really hope that Acute Senses will be replaced with Night Fighting, but at the same time I am sure this won't happen. They had Acute Senses for so long, they'll keep it, along with Counter Attack. Granted - it does not make a whole lot of sense but when has that stopped GW from anything?
What I'd like to see is a return of Stubborn for units locked in Close Combat like it was in 3rd Edition. I really missed that in the last Codex.

Wishlisting aside, I don't think that they'll change much about either Codex. There is just no reason to. "But the vanilla Marines have Traits, too!" is not a good point imo, because that's all vanillas have to set themselves apart. We SW, BA and DA players have a whole Codex for our own, so why do we need more fancy special rules beside the ones we already have?

Especially BA with their DoA and fast tanks. isn't that enough Chapter Trait right there?

Kijamon
10-02-2014, 21:06
I just hope they keep and update the sagas. Every space marine army should have gotten something similar to that mechanic and in fact, every single Codex in the game should have gotten something similar to that mechanic too.

I'd rather have a saga of a big badass that makes my warlord an eternal warrior than a shield that upgrades him to have it.

Carras
10-02-2014, 21:13
I just hope they keep and update the sagas. Every space marine army should have gotten something similar to that mechanic and in fact, every single Codex in the game should have gotten something similar to that mechanic too.

I'd rather have a saga of a big badass that makes my warlord an eternal warrior than a shield that upgrades him to have it.

I totaly agree with you!
It's one of my worst fears that they'll change the sagas into our warlord table...

Charistoph
10-02-2014, 21:30
:D sounds about right.

Aside from that, I really hope that Acute Senses will be replaced with Night Fighting, but at the same time I am sure this won't happen. They had Acute Senses for so long, they'll keep it, along with Counter Attack. Granted - it does not make a whole lot of sense but when has that stopped GW from anything?
What I'd like to see is a return of Stubborn for units locked in Close Combat like it was in 3rd Edition. I really missed that in the last Codex.

Wishlisting aside, I don't think that they'll change much about either Codex. There is just no reason to. "But the vanilla Marines have Traits, too!" is not a good point imo, because that's all vanillas have to set themselves apart. We SW, BA and DA players have a whole Codex for our own, so why do we need more fancy special rules beside the ones we already have?

Especially BA with their DoA and fast tanks. isn't that enough Chapter Trait right there?

That was kind of my point and the original OP's (though the Fast Tanks is codex quirk, Red Thirst and DoA are their Traits) is that these ARE their Chapter Traits.

But Acute Senses WAS Night Fighting in 5th Edition (I don't have any rulebooks before that, so I don't know how it worked before then, but I'm sure it wasn't about Outflanking), so it could be just converted to that if we want to keep it simple.

Bob Arctor
10-02-2014, 21:36
If SW keep Acute Senses instead of gaining Night Fighting, then I expect a Saga or Warlord trait will grant Outflank to some SW units so that it actually becomes useful.

For BA, I wouldn't be surprised if they get their permanent Furious Charge back instead of the Red Thirst roll before the game they have currently. Fearless is then reserved for Chaplains/Death Company. Obviously Sanguinary Priests will need to be modified to reflect this.

Grndhog89
10-02-2014, 22:00
Ahh, the long rumored new faction is revealed. .. The Kilrathi!

I think you mean the Khajiit!

superdupermatt
10-02-2014, 23:12
Khajiit has wares if you have the gold :yes:

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ehlijen
11-02-2014, 00:26
The relics are kind of like the SW sagas. Each one of a kind, each powerful and defining options. For example, the shield eternal isn't unlike the saga of the bear.

And as items, they are easier to model impressively as well if you chose to.

Silversage
11-02-2014, 07:39
I do hope that at least the BA Vanguard Veterans can keep their current Heroic Intervention rule, it's awesome. The vanilla one is just... bland. Having a squad of veterans with power thingys land more or less where you want and immediately charge makes sense for the Blood Angels and gives them some much needed individuality in the horribly mauled assault department of 6th edition.

Also, I kind of think that Red Thirst is on average a bit worse than other Chapter Traits found for example in C:SM. It only has a 1/6 chance of going off (Astorath can improve it, but he doesn't appear in many lists) and getting Fearless and Furious Charge is not exactly overpowered when compared to vanilla marines Chapter Tactics. Most of the time you won't have them and then a lot of your army basically doesn't have anything special. Not even Stubborn which the DA gets (and which I also think is a crappy Chapter Tactic) for everyone. I'd opt for more reliability instead of "ok so my chapter tactic is And They Shall Know No Fear. Thanks dice". And yes I know we get Descent of Angels, but even that you get at most for of half your army and after you've landed, that's it. No more chapter tactics for you for the rest of the game.

ehlijen
11-02-2014, 10:42
We can pretty much count on the old heroic intervention going away. There are no more methods of charging an enemy unit before the owner had a chance to move it out of range or shoot your anymore. Pre 6th codices are the only relics left.

Sir Didymus
11-02-2014, 12:22
I think BA should have the rule: putting the Sanguinor on the field causes you to win the game, 'cuz he like rocks :p

Space Wolves should just be squatted for being an offense to anyone with a scandinavian heritage.

Grey Knights should be made into Codex:Daemonhunters, and should have no marines in troops sections, which should be populated with Adeptus Arbites, PDFs and Stormtroopers.

Sir Didymus
11-02-2014, 12:23
I think BA should have the rule: putting the Sanguinor on the field causes you to win the game, 'cuz he like rocks :p

Space Wolves should just be squatted for being an offense to anyone with a scandinavian heritage.

Grey Knights should be made into Codex Daemonhunters, and should have no marines in troops sections, which should be populated with Adeptus Arbites, PDFs and Stormtroopers.

Camman1984
11-02-2014, 12:37
Space wolfs could do with a chapter trait makes them more imaginative with their naming conentions. For example wolf wolfborn. (Ravenguard need the same trait).

Kijamon
11-02-2014, 17:06
The relics are kind of like the SW sagas. Each one of a kind, each powerful and defining options. For example, the shield eternal isn't unlike the saga of the bear.

And as items, they are easier to model impressively as well if you chose to.

Yeah but that's rubbish.

I am big and strong vs I am big and strong because I have a shield.

I should be able to arm my warriors with anything I want, not have to have a shield just because.

Carras
11-02-2014, 17:18
But Acute Senses WAS Night Fighting in 5th Edition (I don't have any rulebooks before that, so I don't know how it worked before then, but I'm sure it wasn't about Outflanking), so it could be just converted to that if we want to keep it simple.

I know, it was like that at least since 3rd Edition and as I said, rulewise I would love to see SW having Night Fighting as an army wide special rule, as that would be very usefull, at least for Long Fangs, but I just don't see that happening (seeing as our tanks currently don't have Acute Senses I doubt that this'll change). In 5th Edition and prior to that Acute Sense and Night Fighting were one rule with two different explanations (Senses meaning that the soldiers really had the senses and Night Fighting meaning that they had some sort of equipment) and Acute Senses was clearly the right explanation for the Space Wolves. Now they changed the rule while keeping both the name and explanation, which both still fit the Space Wolves. This is why I think that this will not change. Maybe they'll throw in some other rules or make the Saga of the Hunter affect the whole army or d3 squads or something similar, but I don't think that all Wolves will get Night Fighting. Acute Senses is pretty much useless as a rule but fluff-wise it makes more sense than Night Fighting.

Grndhog89
11-02-2014, 17:29
land more or less where you want and immediately charge makes sense for the Blood Angels and gives them some much needed individuality in the horribly mauled assault department of 6th edition.

What makes you think Blood Angels will remain immune to the changes to assault armies? If any army were to mess with the assault phase it would be Tyranids and Orks. The former of the two has already proven that there are basically no exceptions to the assault phase. Why should BA be any different?


Also, I kind of think that Red Thirst is on average a bit worse than other Chapter Traits found for example in C:SM. It only has a 1/6 chance of going off (Astorath can improve it, but he doesn't appear in many lists) and getting Fearless and Furious Charge is not exactly overpowered when compared to vanilla marines Chapter Tactics. Most of the time you won't have them and then a lot of your army basically doesn't have anything special. Not even Stubborn which the DA gets (and which I also think is a crappy Chapter Tactic) for everyone. I'd opt for more reliability instead of "ok so my chapter tactic is And They Shall Know No Fear. Thanks dice". And yes I know we get Descent of Angels, but even that you get at most for of half your army and after you've landed, that's it. No more chapter tactics for you for the rest of the game.

Honestly, Red Thirst and DoA are fine as is. You have a whole codex full of special things hence the "crappier" chapter tactics. Same for my DA. Our CT may not be as good but I get PFG, Black Knights, etc to make up for it. The vanilla marines only bonus is CT.


I think BA should have the rule: putting the Sanguinor on the field causes you to win the game, 'cuz he like rocks :p

Space Wolves should just be squatted for being an offense to anyone with a scandinavian heritage.

Grey Knights should be made into Codex:Daemonhunters, and should have no marines in troops sections, which should be populated with Adeptus Arbites, PDFs and Stormtroopers.

With the exception of the bit for BA I completely agree with you. Especially on squatting Space Wolves. Or at least appropriately costing them and taking away their goodies. :D

soullessginger
11-02-2014, 17:45
I don't think that codex BA needs an update or saving. It certainly doesn't need Chapter Tactics. Fast vehicles, jump pack troops, death company and flying librarian dreadnoughts is enough for me in codex blood angels.

The only thing they do need is AA and I don't want some crappy vehicle, maybe allowing Jump Troops to assault fliers as they are the masters of the sky etc.

wanderingblade
11-02-2014, 20:31
Honestly, Red Thirst and DoA are fine as is. You have a whole codex full of special things hence the "crappier" chapter tactics. Same for my DA. Our CT may not be as good but I get PFG, Black Knights, etc to make up for it. The vanilla marines only bonus is CT.

And Centurions. And Thunderfire Cannons. And Master of the Forge opening up Dreadnought armies. And Captains/CMs opening up bike armies. And grav weapons. And Captains wearing Artificer Armour. That's quite a lot of special things and I'm pretty sure that's not a full list. I could buy less effective Chapter Tactics if an army had their special units plus all the VM goodies but they don't. I feel that Blood Angels have a good case for better CTs. As do Dark Angels for that matter. And Space Wolves, although I'd settle for a way to make better use of Acute Senses to a point... maybe...

I suppose the alternative is to start handing out the stuff that the big three missed out in the main codex instead. But, well, I think I'd prefer better CTs.

Silversage
11-02-2014, 22:11
What makes you think Blood Angels will remain immune to the changes to assault armies? If any army were to mess with the assault phase it would be Tyranids and Orks. The former of the two has already proven that there are basically no exceptions to the assault phase. Why should BA be any different?


Absolutely nothing. I fully expect GW to screw things up for assault armies since that seems to be their agenda in 6th ed. I was just simply expressing a wish, no matter how unlikely it is going to be. SM Heroic Intervention is crappy-ish. BA Heroic Intervention rocks. I'm not a Tyranid player nor will I ever be one, but even I couldn't believe what their new codex was turned into.

And like wanderingblade mentioned above, Spess Mehreens do get a whole bunch of stuff that the outdated BA and even the newish DA can only dream about. So no, CT is not the only gimmick they have.

Akwikone
12-02-2014, 02:14
I would guess that BA mostly just get some points adjustment and maybe a slight toning down in some things(Mephiston Dropping by about 50 points and losing a point of S and T, but gaining IC, Things like that). Maybe rolling for Red thirst being more like Instinctive Behavior, where without the guidance from certain units they charge the nearest enemy unit, gain Fearless/Rage but can't score, or perform sweeping advance.


SW I expect to see Rune Weapon's anti-psychic toned down. I agree that Nightvision is a possibility, but I'm not certain that it'll happen because of the buff Longfangs would get from it, Counter Attack I expect to stay.

Now the biggest thing I'm wondering about will be what happens to the Psychic Powers of each book. Will they get their own charts, or lose there unique ones all together? With Random powers I'm uncertain as to what powers would stay and how useful some units would be without certain powers being definite.

T10
12-02-2014, 14:45
I fully expect GW to screw things up for assault armies since that seems to be their agenda in 6th ed.

That may be true. There appears to be an cohesive design philosophy at work here: A unit cannot arrive and assault in the same turn - the enemy will get at least one round to react.

I do not have many fond memories of strong assault armies rushing across the battlefield and turning the battle into a brawl from turn 2 and onwards, so I will happily work within the confines of that design philosophy.

-T10

Camman1984
12-02-2014, 15:30
I agree, melee used to be way to effective, have they gone too far, maybe, but i am glad things like outflankers and deepstrike cant charge on arrival now. Unless they appear from nowhere (in which case they would need time to orientate themselves) you would see them coming. I remember the days when a few small squads of genestealers would mean game over for any gun line. And assaulting vanguards were the same.

havik110
12-02-2014, 16:26
I agree, melee used to be way to effective, have they gone too far, maybe, but i am glad things like outflankers and deepstrike cant charge on arrival now. Unless they appear from nowhere (in which case they would need time to orientate themselves) you would see them coming. I remember the days when a few small squads of genestealers would mean game over for any gun line. And assaulting vanguards were the same.

yeah but now you castle up and there is no way to get to you...there needs to be a happy medium...

i dont find static gun lines fun to play as or against...oh no movement this turn...

a character like snickrot whos entire purpose is to come in from the back table edge is useless now because he will not survive a turn of shooting...

you are basically saying i want to set up, never move and kill you before you get to me....

Kung Fu Hamster
12-02-2014, 17:37
I would also give them the ability to assault on the turn they deep strike on the roll of a 6 with modifiers...HQ in the squad +1, chappy +1...


If some dirty mon-keigh get to assault out of deep strike/reserves, then the true apex predators damn we'll better get the same thing coming out of a webway portal during a realspace raid.


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Camman1984
12-02-2014, 17:47
I think they have gone too far the other way. I think part of the problem is the objective placement, i dont think any objectives should be alowed in the players deployment zone, or at least a limit of one perhaps. To prevent castling.

A nice way of improving blood angels descent without giving these scary units too much would be shrouding when they landed to represent them coming in really fast on an unprepared enemy, or maybe only snap shots at then on arrival turn but that could be too much unless they restrict it too specialist units.

zoodog
12-02-2014, 17:49
The blood angels Red Thirst is looking less impressive now that FA got neutered, if they kept it the same with the random roll I think they should add fleet or relentless as well (mephy has it/ Death company have it). Frankly nether one would effect things that much unless you built a devastator army around random luck. Descent while not less applicable, is still reasonable coupled with assault squad troops.
Alternatively addressing the biggest WTF change to the current edition they could ignore the unwieldy weapon penalty, I expect this will be sorted out individually with the characters though.

Charistoph
12-02-2014, 18:07
I think they have gone too far the other way.

If it can be done, it should be over done... Oh, wait, that's Mythbusters...

To be honest, it's been quite common for GW to add every rule that would fix an issue on its own, instead of just one or two on their own.

As for the Objectives, thing, I agree, but that is just as more on you and your opponent than it is the ruleset.


A nice way of improving blood angels descent without giving these scary units too much would be shrouding when they landed to represent them coming in really fast on an unprepared enemy, or maybe only snap shots at then on arrival turn but that could be too much unless they restrict it too specialist units.

Kind of like Warp Talons Blind, but better? It could work, but it may be overpowered with the D6 Scattering...


The blood angels Red Thirst is looking less impressive now that FA got neutered, if they kept it the same with the random roll I think they should add fleet or relentless as well (mephy has it/ Death company have it).

What about Crusader and/or Rage instead of Fleet? Relentless should be left to the Death Company.


Alternatively addressing the biggest WTF change to the current edition they could ignore the unwieldy weapon penalty, I expect this will be sorted out individually with the characters though.

Agreed. More than likely we will see some of them patterned as more original weapons than just bas Power Weapons, but not all of them, mostly Grim and Dante.

Imperialis_Dominatus
14-02-2014, 00:21
I think Blood Angels could do with a much more characterful "Chapter Trait" than Red Thirst. I've ranted about this numerous times, but Red Thirst, as is, doesn't well represent Blood Angels. All Blood Angels feel a killing rage and the desire to see the enemy's blood flow building over the course of the battle, and if they don't clamp down on that anger they go nuts and start ripping enemies apart and drinking their blood (or ichor or motor oil or what have you). The current Red Thirst rule describes a single member of the squad going nuts and dictating the behavior of the rest of the squad, which is more mechanically apt for the Black Rage and simply not at all in character for the Red Thirst, since those who fall to the Black Rage have their place in the Death Company.

In some rules I'm working on, units with Red Thirst (so non-vehicle units and Dreadnoughts) get a Fury counter for every turn they spend out of combat; a number of Fury tokens corresponds to a number of special rules that apply to the first round of close combat (FC, Rage, etc.), and at the end of a close combat, a victorious Red Thirsting unit has to take a Leadership check modified by the number of counters it used in the close combat; if they fail they cannot Sweeping Advance. This far more adequately represents the Red Thirst, in my opinion, and with further modifications to the rule via Sanguinary Priests, Chaplains, and artefacts (Shroud of Sanguinius, carried by Cleutin, gives a further special rule for numbers of counters; Scrolls of Argastes gives shooting bonuses instead of close combat bonuses for Fury counters), it gets all the more characterful.

"But it's just like Power from Pain!" I hear the gibbering hordes of neckbearded grognards cry. And I respond, sure, it's similar, in only the vein of 'counter gives special rules,' so go shower.

Furthermore, I modify this with 'Chapter Tactics' representing various Blood Angels successors. Flesh Tearers are angrier, but do better with Seth on the board; Lamenters don't test for Red Thirst, but have awful luck; Knights of Blood lose a lot of allies in the Imperium (downgraded to AoC/AoD in various cases), but can ally with Chaos Space Marines.

Check them out here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?387948-Blood-Angels-Stuff&p=7037146#post7037146).

wanderingblade
15-02-2014, 08:47
Personally, Night Fighting on SW would be pretty lame, due to us not being great at long range shooting and already possessing the ability through searchlights. Yes, there's a few options to make something of it but it doesn't mesh with the army's strengths or most people's ideas of how SW should fight (at my guess).

I'm not quite sure what I want for SW. Right now I feel we suffer through having mobility and long range firepower at something of a premium. It would be nice if somewhere in the army, we had something that allowed us to counteract those disadvantages without losing the idea of being close range experts (ignoring the fact that the notorious lists were all LFs and Razorbacks). But I'm having difficulty thinking of much.

Tbh, I feel BA are kinda in the same bag. Sure, they can get bike armies and tons of Preds, so not as bad, and jump packs are at least mobile... but then they're also expensive MEQ with so-so damage output. Ho-hum. Will be interesting to see what GW do.

Still, I'd like to think they've learnt the lesson of C:SM, DA and CSM... MEQ alone is not enough, it needs a fair bit of support in terms of bonuses.

Baaltor
15-02-2014, 09:21
For Blood Angels, I reccomend giving consideration to how they're supposed to be the most "angelic" of the space marines, and the most noble of spirit. And that's saying a lot. I think that that needs to be represented somehow; even if it's always overlooked.