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DarkChaplain
12-02-2014, 18:36
There we go, the next Horus Heresy novel after Vengeful Spirit got announced, with cover art to go with the unveiling:

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2014/Feb/Damn_Pyth_A5_HB_dustjacket_FINAL_001.jpg

The novel is going to be released in July 2014, and will focus on the Shattered Legions after Isstvan V. It is also David Annandale's debut HH novel, and follows on from his audio short Veritas Ferrum.
Considering the book's title and the dinosaur-like beasts on the artwork, it is safe to assume that this is the same Pythos found in the Pandorax system, which we got around to visit a few months ago.


I definitely am looking forward to this one - as a fan of David's work (and dinosaurs, woop), this has me more excited than anything Dan Abnett could possibly contribute to the HH series (then again, Dan is unlikely to have something up that particular pipeline until 2015 at the earliest anyway).

clovis
12-02-2014, 21:32
thanks for this Darkchaplain!this is an amazing cover:eek: On a side note I thought Dan new GG(warmaster) was coming in July,Is there anything wrong between Dan and the Black Libray?
Good they give a chance to new guys to write on the Horus Heresy;)

Danny76
12-02-2014, 21:49
thanks for this Darkchaplain!this is an amazing cover:eek: On a side note I thought Dan new GG(warmaster) was coming in July,Is there anything wrong between Dan and the Black Libray?
Good they give a chance to new guys to write on the Horus Heresy;)

Nothing wrong between BL and Abnett, but he is doing non BL work for like the next year. So we won't see any more of his stuff till next year, HH or otherwise.
His follow up to Pariah is evidently Nov15 now so the third won't be till 2016. Warmaster I thought was done so should still come out, but unsure tbh

Nazguire
13-02-2014, 03:17
Awesome cover. The Iron Hand looks boss. The Raven Guard looks suitably wussy.

I'm wondering how this contributes to the overall HH arc though. More sub plots? CAN'T WE MOVE THE PLOT FORWARD?!

That said I'll still read it cause Iron Hands.

Bellerophon
13-02-2014, 04:00
For some reason it immediately conjured up memories of Promethean Sun. Most likely just the terrifying lizard-esque creature bearting down on Astartes.

shadowhawk2008
13-02-2014, 05:58
Since I like David's work, I'm excited for this one. Will definitely aim to read it on release.

Dean5150
13-02-2014, 06:31
5 months, good, might get to read other 40k before then..pheew!

Anakwanar
13-02-2014, 07:57
I definitely am looking forward to this one - as a fan of David's work (and dinosaurs, woop)

After awful 'Promethean Sun' i can't see - how this is a good thing?


I definitely am looking forward to this one - as a fan of David's work

Not so happy about it - David has written an awesome Veritas Ferrum and Yarrick: Chains of Golgotha, BUT his 'Death of Antagonis' and new 'Yarrick: Imperial Creed' are awful. So right now it's 50-50

Plus i personally think that it would be another book about NOTHING, which doesn't move HH at Terra direction, even a bit.
It would be survivors from 3 legions fighting some 4-5 hundreds of traitors, pursuing them on the planet with dinosaurs - MEH.
I'm tired with 'Right AFTER ISTVAAN 5' stuff :mad:

shadowhawk2008
13-02-2014, 09:11
Uhh.... are you referring to Promethean Sun in terms of dinosaurs? Because David did NOT write that one.

DarkChaplain
13-02-2014, 10:14
After awful 'Promethean Sun' i can't see - how this is a good thing?



Not so happy about it - David has written an awesome Veritas Ferrum and Yarrick: Chains of Golgotha, BUT his 'Death of Antagonis' and new 'Yarrick: Imperial Creed' are awful. So right now it's 50-50

Plus i personally think that it would be another book about NOTHING, which doesn't move HH at Terra direction, even a bit.
It would be survivors from 3 legions fighting some 4-5 hundreds of traitors, pursuing them on the planet with dinosaurs - MEH.
I'm tired with 'Right AFTER ISTVAAN 5' stuff :mad:

Yeah, yeah, I know you didn't like The Death of Antagonis. Look at me still liking what I like, and I enjoyed Antagonis a hell lot, and Yarrick: Imperial Creed is going to be the first physical novel hardback release I'll buy since Pariah (big mistake to invest money in that, trying to stay on top of the next story arc. A three year wait between the first and second books in that trilogy, pah). You might have a 50:50 rate of good reads by David, I don't. I haven't yet read anything he did which I did not like, and I've just picked up another BL-unrelated novel he wrote a few years ago. So suit yourself.

As for the dinosaur things - it is true, Promethean Sun HAD dinos. It also delivered them in a rather hamfisted manner, giving them the exact names the ancient dinosaurs on earth had. No variation, like you might see from Fantasy Lizardmen with their Stegadons. Speaking of which, I am currently reading Sword of Caledor by Bill King, and enjoying the Lustria chapters a great deal - at least the Lizards are in a novel, rather than ignored because they don't want to take risks.

And thinking about The Death of Pythos being set on Pythos, the big green creature might just be a Carovis, as featured in Pandorax by C Z Dunn; people who have read that (or seen the cover) will know that in that book Abaddon comes to Pandorax, particularly Pythos, which is being defended by Grey Knights led by Kaldor Draigo and Dark Angels, Azrael at their head. There's plenty to set up for the two big wars for Pythos, post Heresy (the first being waged by the early Grey Knights).

So I really doubt this is just about the Shattered Legions going on a field trip. And I also find it funny that complaints about "another post-V story" would pop up, considering people have been begging to hear what happened to the Shattered Legions for ages, and wanted a continuation to Veritas Ferrum in particular.

Get it into your head that we won't reach Terra for at least another 20 novels. There's plenty more to come, including exploration of sub-plots and stories off the beaten track.



His follow up to Pariah is evidently Nov15 now so the third won't be till 2016. Warmaster I thought was done so should still come out, but unsure tbh

A three year gap between two books in a trilogy is god-awful, especially with the one year hardback exclusivity and absolutely no official word from BL. The Warmaster was pushed back to July 2015, according to Amazon. Not that it wasn't pushed back from December 2013 to July 2014 already..

MajorWesJanson
13-02-2014, 10:36
Awesome cover. The Iron Hand looks boss. The Raven Guard looks suitably wussy.

I'm wondering how this contributes to the overall HH arc though. More sub plots? CAN'T WE MOVE THE PLOT FORWARD?!

That said I'll still read it cause Iron Hands.

I'll gladly take more diversions from the main HH plot if it gives us things like Tallarn or this, Shattered Legions! In the old fluff, they basically dropped off the radar between Isstvan and the Second Founding crisis. We now know where Vulkan went, and what Corax was up to, but getting to see the Iron Hands and the rank and file Salamanders and Raven Guard separated from their primarchs is going to be fun.

sheppe
13-02-2014, 11:42
is the raven guard equipped with a mk6 or mk4 helmet in the bottom left?

Sandlemad
13-02-2014, 16:38
Yarrick: Chains of Golgotha was the best depiction of orks since Deff Skwadron (its polar opposite, really), so I've faith in David Annandale.

Also I'm pretty happy that the HH series is taking its time with this. Far better than to simply rush forward to the endgame and wrap everything up with a neat bow, just as in the old fluff. The whole shattered legions plot is a good one, one pretty much absent from the older background, and the Iron Hands/Salamanders/Raven Guard deserve more than to pop their heads round the door in other heresy books.

Horus38
13-02-2014, 16:58
I'm wondering how this contributes to the overall HH arc though. More sub plots? CAN'T WE MOVE THE PLOT FORWARD?!

Well I think it's more closing the already established Damnation Cache subplot we got from Pandorax in a round about kind of way. Possibly introducing the Grey Knight psyker who will be guarding it and the Emerald Prisoner.

Tymell
13-02-2014, 20:21
Sweeeet.

I've no idea what this one will be about, but I'm looking forward to it all the same due to it being Annandale's first full novel in the series. Veritas Ferrum was good, and I really enjoyed his short "The Traveller" from Mark of Calth.

Also hoping this picks up the standard of the "shattered legion" stories. After Scorched Earth, Vulkan Lives, Unremembered Empire, Forgotten Sons and Angel Exterminatus, I've been left feeling pretty disappointed with what we've seen of them. There are some good ideas, but they're not being well-executed a lot of the time. Hopefully a novel focusing on them will help, so long as it doesn't fall into the trap of trying to take on too many plotlines/characters at once.

Sandlemad
13-02-2014, 21:06
Also hoping this picks up the standard of the "shattered legion" stories. After Scorched Earth, Vulkan Lives, Unremembered Empire, Forgotten Sons and Angel Exterminatus, I've been left feeling pretty disappointed with what we've seen of them. There are some good ideas, but they're not being well-executed a lot of the time. Hopefully a novel focusing on them will help, so long as it doesn't fall into the trap of trying to take on too many plotlines/characters at once.

I think the issue of dealing with too many characters is central to the shattered legions plot. To convey how broken they are you're inevitably going to looking at different groups with different reactions to the dropsite massacre and the war as a whole. I agree that most of the works involving them have pretty much just portrayed the characters are legion stereotypes but Unremembered Empire was decent in how it showed different groups of Iron Hands with different opinions on what to do next, some immediately siding with Ultramar and others starkly in mourning for Ferrus.

The short story Riven is quite good for the same, albeit only for Iron Hands. Hopefully this new novel will at least hint at the breadth of possible characters rather than just having stoic Salamanders, cold Iron Hands and taciturn Raven Guard.

clovis
13-02-2014, 21:40
Also I'm pretty happy that the HH series is taking its time with this. Far better than to simply rush forward to the endgame and wrap everything up with a neat bow, just as in the old fluff. The whole shattered legions plot is a good one, one pretty much absent from the older background, and the Iron Hands/Salamanders/Raven Guard deserve more than to pop their heads round the door in other heresy books.[/QUOTE]

I could not agree more

clovis
13-02-2014, 21:42
My mistake I was meant to quote saying I agree with this statement :

Also I'm pretty happy that the HH series is taking its time with this. Far better than to simply rush forward to the endgame and wrap everything up with a neat bow, just as in the old fluff. The whole shattered legions plot is a good one, one pretty much absent from the older background, and the Iron Hands/Salamanders/Raven Guard deserve more than to pop their heads round the door in other heresy books.[/QUOTE]

Deff Mekz
14-02-2014, 15:45
Awesome cover. The Iron Hand looks boss. The Raven Guard looks suitably wussy.

I'm wondering how this contributes to the overall HH arc though. More sub plots? CAN'T WE MOVE THE PLOT FORWARD?!

That said I'll still read it cause Iron Hands.

I've got news for those of you that wish the plot to be moving forward in a meaningful way, among the next few books planned by Black Library are two anthologies and 2 novellas, one of which is a continuation of the war on Mars, and I don't recall what the other one is. The two anthologies are called; "The Silent War" (All the Knights Errant stories) and "Shattered Legions." That being said there are three books on the way that I guess will move the plot on in a meaningful way, I do believe James Swallow is writing a Death Guard book which presumably will cover the Ascension of Mortarion on his last warp jump to Terra, and the "The Crimson King" by Graham McNeil which will presumably do the same for Magnus the Red. The last of these three will be Aaron Dembski Bowden's next book which I do believe covers the Webway War.

BoT: The cover art for this is totally rad, I'm really interested in finding out how this book links to 40k considering where it is set. Plus, two HH books in 3 months, awesome!!!!

shadowhawk2008
14-02-2014, 20:06
The novellas are not part of the numbering, just to clarify. They are additional content. The anthologies do count.

MiyamatoMusashi
17-02-2014, 20:39
The novellas are not part of the numbering, just to clarify. They are additional content. The anthologies do count.

It would make me happy if BL could just keep a public list somewhere of all the HH releases (in chronological order of release) so as to check that one has everything, and is reading it in an appropriate order.

Tymell
17-02-2014, 21:52
It would make me happy if BL could just keep a public list somewhere of all the HH releases (in chronological order of release) so as to check that one has everything, and is reading it in an appropriate order.

It's not from BL, but I try to keep this as up to date as possible :D

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/Tymell/the_horus_heresy_series__a_reading_guide/

MajorWesJanson
18-02-2014, 03:24
It would make me happy if BL could just keep a public list somewhere of all the HH releases (in chronological order of release) so as to check that one has everything, and is reading it in an appropriate order.

Star wars books have a chronology section in the front, which tells you at least the rough order the books take place in. HH books ought to do the same, and it would advertise the other books, novellas, short stories, audio dramas in the series as well.

shadowhawk2008
18-02-2014, 04:48
Heh, I remember when that entire list used to be much smaller, and not in such fine print either.

Bun Bun
08-03-2014, 21:00
Awesome cover. The Iron Hand looks boss. The Raven Guard looks suitably wussy.

I'm wondering how this contributes to the overall HH arc though. More sub plots? CAN'T WE MOVE THE PLOT FORWARD?!

That said I'll still read it cause Iron Hands.

We are entering the point where the Imperium is trying to deny the forces of Hours as much as possible. This is across three fronts so far preventing the traitors from getting the Damnation Cache on Pythos, preventing them from getting the Cursus on Tallarn and holding them on Molech for as long as possible to buy more time to fortify and gather reinforcements back to Terra, all of which are getting their own books.

GraemeLyon
08-03-2014, 21:41
It would make me happy if BL could just keep a public list somewhere of all the HH releases (in chronological order of release) so as to check that one has everything, and is reading it in an appropriate order.

Something like this? http://www.blacklibrary.com/our-ranges-horus-heresy.html

MiyamatoMusashi
08-03-2014, 23:35
Something like this? http://www.blacklibrary.com/our-ranges-horus-heresy.html

Almost, except that's chronological order according to the background (...sort of). In other words, Galaxy in Flames was Horus Heresy book III, we can't suddenly start calling it Horus Heresy book VI just because they've since released stuff that's set before it.

I get that they're trying for a "suggested reading order", and that's great and all, especially for new readers; but it's not what I was hoping for.

Dean5150
09-03-2014, 10:39
BL site now has reading order list for selected series.

Lupe
09-03-2014, 20:37
I get that they're trying for a "suggested reading order", and that's great and all, especially for new readers; but it's not what I was hoping for.

Plus, it actually complicates things, since every short story anthology seems to have its components broken down and just weaved in between the novels. I can see how that can play havoc on one's bookshelf if they've not been following the series from the start (or, at, the very least, since before the multiple formats)

HamsterExAstris
11-03-2014, 15:28
Plus, it actually complicates things, since every short story anthology seems to have its components broken down and just weaved in between the novels. I can see how that can play havoc on one's bookshelf if they've not been following the series from the start (or, at, the very least, since before the multiple formats)
Tales of Heresy and Mark of Calth are not broken up. Age of Darkness is but all of the contents are listed together; same with Shadows of Treachery and its new content. (The old content like The Dark King/The Lightning Tower is listed separately in its original format.)

That leaves The Primarchs, which is split up - though with only four stories, it's easier to track. Also, the book is listed by itself at the time of the last story.

MiyamatoMusashi
12-03-2014, 20:57
Well, that's not at all complicated then.

Death Nikorps
24-05-2014, 17:05
Review of The Damnation of Pythos here:

https://twitter.com/blacklibrarium/status/470248864688009216

(you can click on the US/UK flag to translate into english)


:)

Soul Hunter
29-05-2014, 13:46
My own review for The Damnation of Pythos;

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/05/black-library-advance-review-horus.html


SH

Dean5150
30-05-2014, 10:23
My own review for The Damnation of Pythos;

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/05/black-library-advance-review-horus.html



SH

Another good review Soul Hunter. I have given up with HH stories propelling the story forward ( I know VS has to some degree) and look forward to this.

fluxdeluxe
30-05-2014, 12:27
is it advisable to read Pandorax before this? I've read shadow hunters review and it sounds half decent. I'd stayed away from it as I'd perhaps mistakenly classified as bolter porn

Soul Hunter
30-05-2014, 12:44
Another good review Soul Hunter. I have given up with HH stories propelling the story forward (I know VS has to some degree) and look forward to this.
Thanks Dean, I do think this is Annandale's best work yet. Definitely better than Death of Antagonis and Yarrick: Imperial Creed.


is it advisable to read Pandorax before this? I've read shadow hunters review and it sounds half decent. I'd stayed away from it as I'd perhaps mistakenly classified as bolter porn
Well they are set on the same planet and both feature the eponymous Damnation Cache, though it's never referred to by that moniker in TDoP, but other then that the two books are unconnected. You might consider it worth a read, here's a litmus test. If you've read any of CZ Dunn's Dark Angels stuff and liked it, you'll probably like Pandorax. If not, stay away from it, or just wait until the book is available as an SMB format sometime later this year and get it then for the paperback price. (Though Trials of Azrael the audio. Listen to that if you can. It's epic.)


SH

Sqallum
30-05-2014, 18:52
Can you please give us spoilers/synopsis? Great review btw.

Soul Hunter
04-06-2014, 20:28
Can you please give us spoilers/synopsis? Great review btw.
Yeah sure;


The story begins with the Veritas Ferrum on the move. It is a Strike Cruiser that escaped Istvaan V and carries the Iron Hands 111th Clan-Company and is commanded by Captain Durun Atticus, a devotee of the machine and an Astartes whose sole visible biological component is his left eye. He is as close to a 40k Iron Hand as any of them have become in both body and mind. His second, Anton Galba, is far more organic and still retains his innate compassion and humanity that most Iron Hands are starting to leave behind. They also have a small number of Salamanders and a single squad of Raven Guard aboard, led by Sergeant Khi'dem and Veteran Ptero respectively. The only reason Atticus bothered to take them with him is that Galba convinced him they could be of use. Meanwhile Galba's personal serf Jerune Kanshell is fixing part of the ship and we learn that some of the serfs, led by Atticus' personal serf Agnes Tanaura, have formed a cult of the Lectitio Divinitatus. He refuses to join.

The ship enters the Pandorax System, having been drawn there by a warp anomaly that is detectable from a great distance. They arrive and try to scan the anomaly which results in a strange incident, lightning erupts from the auspex, killing the Master of Auspex and temporarily disabling the Veritas. Galba is unnerved by the lightning that seemed almost alive and swears he could hear laughter, though he doesn't say this out loud. Heading down to the planet Pythos with the Mistress of Astropaths, Rhydia Erephren, who is very much like an Iron Hand in mind, they find strange creatures that resemble Grox but are carnivores. Ptero claims that they cannot exist because they look like herbivores and have all the features of herbivores, therefore they would not be good predators and would have gone extinct, yet they are predators and seem to be common on Pythos. Next a strange sentient fungus attacks them and claims two Salamanders, during the fight Atticus orders the Iron Hands back and not to help them, Galba disobeys the order but cannot save the stricken Salamanders. Khi'dem thanks him anyway but Atticus privately rebukes him, revealing that Iron Hands blame the Raven Guard and Salamanders for not supporting Ferrus Manus's charge which led to his death. After some travel they find a strange column in the jungle and are attacked by true carnivores, think T-rexs with multiple eyes and the agility/speed of velociraptors, which they fight off but both fights cost them a few Astartes.

The Astartes construct a base near the column which is the source of the Warp anomaly. It goes well at first but in the night Jerune Kanshell hears screaming and investigates only to find a serf moments before he commits suicide. When asked what happened Kanshell says "His eyes were screaming." Dismissing the incident as a hallucination Atticus informs the Astartes that a force of Emperor's Children has entered the Hamartia System that neighbours the Pandorax system, and upon learning one of the three ships is the Callidora, a battle-barge that was a sort of battle-brother to the Veritas Ferrum, they are eager to kill them. They travel there and use mines to cripple the two escorts before using distraction tactics, rigging an asteroid to explode and partly crash into the Callidora, to let their boarding torpedos strike the Callidora and allow the 111th into the command levels. They fight their way to the bridge, killing a Slaaneshi Dreadnought named Ancient Cleos and the Captain along the way, and redirect the Callidora into a sun before destroying the bridge. They leave it to die and mine the entry point so that the rest of the EC fleet will get caught in it, though they don't expect much and have to flee before they can see the result.

Returning to Pandorax they find a new fleet there, made of ramshackle junk ships piloted by ****** who can barely function. They watch the ships land, the incompetence of the pilots and state of the ships causing many to be lost, and watch thousands of survivors land on Pythos and burn the surviving ships. They are colonists. The saurians attack them and a tense confrontation begins between Khi'dem and Atticus, the former wants to save them and the latter can't think of a reason to bother. Galba says that they could use the colonists to establish a stronger Imperial presence here, which Atticus accedes to. They save the colonists but are disturbed by their singing as they die and their beatific attitude towards Pythos. Kanshell meets a priestess novitiate named Ske Vris who claims they worship the same thing but will not reveal where they came from originally. Kanshell has since converted to the Divinitatus as he cannot stand the horrors of Pythos much longer.

The construction continues and the colonists build a temple but they call it a lodge. Another incident occurs in the barracks when all the sleeping serfs begin chanting the name "Madail" over and over again. Galba is forced to wake them up by firing into the ceiling. This and an attack on Erephren by a shadow convinces Atticus that there is an enemy on Pythos, and he promises to destroy it. The colonists unveil a pit near the column that leads into a strange underground chamber. Leading a group of Astartes into it Atticus finds it to be a dead end and decides to leave, on the way out though Galba receives a warning from somewhere that something is coming. His warning gives the Astartes the moment of preparation necessary to survive an assault by immense maggot-men. They escape, and along the way Ptero reveals that he was a Librarian but has since been returned to the ranks. He cannot understand how Galba knew what was going to happen. Atticus however takes a dim view and tells Galba that he will tolerate no breaking of the Emperor's laws, and no sorcery. Galba isn't a psyker though and is baffled by what happened. This and the very un-Iron Hand way he has been acting so far are distancing him from the rest of the Legion who either ignore him or regard him with contempt. Khi'dem however shows him respect.

Kanshell is invited by Ske Vris to observe their ceremony, which is beautiful, but he cannot join because he does not feel at home yet. The high priest asks him to bring an icon of his faith to the next gathering and he will prove that he and Kanshell worship the same thing. Discussing the chamber and the situation Erephren claims that their attacker is doing so through the Warp and may not actually be on Pythos but rather occupying the same space in the Warp, but it will likely arrive here soon. Turning to the problem of the chamber Galba gives the theory that it is a machine built for some unknown purpose, Atticus dismisses it but Galba receives another "message" and claims they need to burn the chamber. After a long conversation with Atticus who is skeptical but has come to the same conclusion using the Iron Hands logic, the Captain orders the Veritas Ferrum to fire on the chamber and destroy it. The colonists however refuse to move from that spot and as such are left by Atticus to die over Khi'dem's protests. However when the Veritas' lance fires on the chamber it is absorbed and redirected, destroying the Veritas which crashes onto Pythos and stranding the 111th on Pythos. They will die there now.

Galba realizes that the messages were tricking him. The first was done to earn his trust and establish the message's credibility, so that he wouldn't question the second and thus ensured the Veritas's destruction. Deciding to destroy the chamber by hand Atticus leads a group of Astartes and Ptero's Raven Guard into the chamber while Galba and Sergeant Darras remain on the surface. Sending Kanshell to investigate the colonists they discover that they are actually Davinites that have come here to perform a ritual. When the high priest reveals they are mutants Galba opens fire but not in time to prevent the priest from making the final sacrifice, the cultists gunned down by the Astartes are a mass sacrifice, which allows a Daemon Prince named Madail to manifest. After a small fight Galba is killed and brutally desecrated by Madail who prepares to summon his army. In the chamber Atticus finds three portals through a previously locked door, through which Madail's army begins to emerge. Covering one of the gates the Iron Hands and Raven Guard prevent as many Daemons as they can from escaping, but many still flock to the surface where they begin fighting the saurians who have grouped en-masse. Saurians the size of Reaver Titans have also arrived and begin attacking everyone. Darras manages to kill one or two using the base's guns but soon they are overwhelmed, only the sacrifice of Venerable Dreadnought Atrax allows Darras, Erephren and a single squad of Iron Hands to escape. Kanshell and Tanaura manage to kill Ske Vris in the wild and find Darras whose gunship is smashed by one of the saurian-titans. The other gunships and the two Iron Hands Vindicators are destroyed by Madail nearly effortlessly. Atticus and the Iron Hands fight their way out of the chamber only to find Galba's desecrated corpse and evidence that the Iron Hands on the surface are all dead, bar Darras who arrives with Kanshell, Tanaura and Khi'dem. They need to get back to the chamber and send a message to the Emperor, warning him of this, as the last useful thing they can do. Along the way Khi'dem sacrifices himself to distract Madail and buy them time, while Tanaura is killed by a stray Screamer, the Iron Hands are slowly killed until only Atticus and Erephren remain. The Raven Guard and Ptero launch a final attack on Madail and are killed for their efforts. Erephren sends the message, as she does she sees the Hamartia System one more time and sees that scores of Emperor's Children ships died in their second mine ambush and that nearly an entire war-fleet was lost, and dies as a result of the psychic strain while Atticus is last seen trying to kill Madail (Think the scene in Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest where Jack Sparrow attacks the Kraken). It is shown later that he failed and was killed, and Madail and his Daemonic army are fully manifested. They reconstruct the Veritas Ferrum as a Daemon Ship, planning to join the war and ravage the undefended worlds of the Imperium while the Legiones Astartes are distracted, and Madail is last seen taking Kanshell, who has survived the battle with him as entertainment.

The psychic message reaches Terra whereupon the receiving Astropath takes it to the message nexus, and he is told it is gibberish. He protests that it is a priority omega code only to be told that every message reaching Terra claims that highest urgency. The Master of Astropaths agrees to put it in the piles, the mountainous piles that are constantly being added to. It's highly implied but not said outright that what happened on Pythos will never be known, and if anyone does read the one-word message they will never believe it.



SH

Sqallum
05-06-2014, 10:17
Thanks. A grim ending.

Soul Hunter
05-06-2014, 11:58
Thanks. A grim ending.
Indeed. Something I don't think we get enough of.


SH

shadowhawk2008
05-06-2014, 22:27
Not enough grim endings in Warhammer? What?

Soul Hunter
05-06-2014, 22:31
Not enough grim endings in Warhammer? What?
Not enough truly grimdark endings in the novels. At least in my opinion.


SH

Sqallum
06-06-2014, 09:16
Just wondering - it sounds like the Hands get slaughtered by the daemons, do they give a good fight?

Soul Hunter
06-06-2014, 10:28
Just wondering - it sounds like the Hands get slaughtered by the Daemons, do they give a good fight?
Very much so, especially when they are covering the chamber gateway and once they reach the surface. As do the saurians.


SH

Deepsix81
19-07-2014, 00:30
So, I read Soul Hunter's review (excellent, by the way) as well as the blurb that was free on the site and I'm of 2 minds: (1) this thing is beautifully-written. The blurb is about 2 (pretty long) chapters, and it touches a bunch of excellent emotional points with regards to the Iron Hands. Little attention is paid to the Ravens and Salamanders, but whatever, they are supporting actors. (2) It's such a one-off story. Judging from the review, this story is essentially self-contained and almost tangential. With that in mind as well as the recent price increases, I feel like the 3 month wait is justified (I've converted to the ebooks, so I think the price drops after that time, right?).

DarkChaplain
19-07-2014, 10:52
I'd agree on the "beautifully-written" point. The prologue alone felt impressive and set the mood for Pythos really well, and the start of chapter one (which they also used as the audiobook sample on the website) is an excellent piece when it comes to depicting the Iron Hands mentality and the Isstvan-trauma.

Tiat-shy-eas
19-07-2014, 13:24
What's the usual wait time for the paperbacks after the new hardback format is released? Does anyone know? I don't feel like forking out $35 when I can get this story for $11.99 later.

shadowhawk2008
19-07-2014, 19:17
6 months after hardback is the new paperback format, a year after that is the old mass market format.

DarkChaplain
19-07-2014, 23:07
Correction, 3 months for the large paperbacks, 9 for mass market. Vengeful Spirit is up for (pre)order in trade paperback already (May -> August) and the mass market format is scheduled for late january.
The Unremembered Empire just released as MMPB (early, I think?) and Scars comes in october, it seems.

Tiat-shy-eas
20-07-2014, 17:56
Thanks, I will wait on that than.

nagash66
24-07-2014, 18:31
Enjoying it so far ( about half way in) but the absolute terrible job with Astarte's numbers is getting to me, strike cruisers never carry thousands of marines but according to this book a strike cruiser only has a complement of 'hundreds rather then its usual thousands' and a strategist/audience hall again made for thousands of marines. Wonder how many marines battle barges are suppose to carry according to this author tens of thousands? Small issue i know but this far into the series i find these basic details all the more glaring.

As others have said the excellent written iron hands steal the show and the ravens and salamanders just serve to show how the iron tenth is going off the deep end.

shadowhawk2008
25-07-2014, 02:29
Hmm.... maybe these are Heresy-era Strike Cruisers and not 40k era, so the power differential is there?

Raga88
25-07-2014, 06:14
So at last the Iron Hands have they own HH novel too. I'm curious if there will be one centered around the Imperial Fists too. Don't really like the guys but they would deserve one too.

nagash66
25-07-2014, 08:52
Hmm.... maybe these are Heresy-era Strike Cruisers and not 40k era, so the power differential is there?

Yes and no, the strike cruiser itself is not a type of ship, its a type of class ( just like the battle barge) it is meant as a cruiser class marine deployment vehicle between an escort and a battle barge. The novel itself highlights this when said strike cruiser goes up against a battle barge and the sheer difference in size and purpose is show.

Strike cruiser dont carry thousands of marines, i mean they can probably fit them in, but thats not their purpose nor would they be able to effectively be used by such numbers.

Its simply numbers got wrong, which as i have said is a minor peeve ( at least they get them wrong on the same scale the entire novel) but it annoys me greatly as this should not get past Black Library in HH novel at this or any stage.

reds8n
25-07-2014, 10:33
So at last the Iron Hands have they own HH novel too. I'm curious if there will be one centered around the Imperial Fists too. Don't really like the guys but they would deserve one too.

One would suggest they'll probably feature quite heavily when the story reaches Terra.

MiyamatoMusashi
27-07-2014, 16:56
About a quarter of the way through this, and the overwhelming impression is that I've seen it all before. It's yet another "daemons don't exist, oh wait, yes they do" book. Just a different Legion as the focus. All a bit yawn, so far.

Deepsix81
31-07-2014, 17:45
About a quarter of the way through this, and the overwhelming impression is that I've seen it all before. It's yet another "daemons don't exist, oh wait, yes they do" book. Just a different Legion as the focus. All a bit yawn, so far.

I came away with largely the same opinion with regard to the Pandorax region in particular. I was willing to suspend my thoughts because I recognize that I'm hugely biased - the demons just don't interest me. But now I know that I'm not alone. I understand that the role of the warp has to be explored in the process of explaining the Heresy, but the dinosaurs and monsters just don't do anything for me.

However, I feel like the first 40 to 60 percent of the story were as well-written and impressive as anything else in the series so far. Any questions about the effect of Ferrus' death were addressed from a number of different angles. This (and Riven as well) was the missing story that any reader would have hoped for following the happenings at Isstvan.

So the biggest question that I walked away from with this one is, “Why?” Why is the Damnation Cache being introduced into the Heresy at all? Correct me if I’m wrong (and this is imminently possible) but the gate isn’t shut until the Grey Knights get to it at some point far after the Siege, right? So what’s the point?

**RECKLESS SPECULATION TO FOLLOW**

Unless this is a way to explain the absence of certain legions during the Siege, maybe? Would Malcador have noticed the message from the Epilogue and dispatched one (or more) legions to take care of this? Hell, would those legions have listened? I get the feeling that both Guilliman and Lion’El trust no one but the Emperor himself, so maybe this is all just a bunch of nonsense. But I feel like there’s going to be something more from the Pandorax region before the Heresy is finished.

fluxdeluxe
31-07-2014, 18:19
So the biggest question that I walked away from with this one is, “Why?” Why is the Damnation Cache being introduced into the Heresy at all? Correct me if I’m wrong (and this is imminently possible) but the gate isn’t shut until the Grey Knights get to it at some point far after the Siege, right? So what’s the point?

**RECKLESS SPECULATION TO FOLLOW**

Unless this is a way to explain the absence of certain legions during the Siege, maybe? Would Malcador have noticed the message from the Epilogue and dispatched one (or more) legions to take care of this? Hell, would those legions have listened? I get the feeling that both Guilliman and Lion’El trust no one but the Emperor himself, so maybe this is all just a bunch of nonsense. But I feel like there’s going to be something more from the Pandorax region before the Heresy is finished.

I agree there's a lot more to come

if you read/listen to pandorax it seems the entire region of space was subsumed by the warp. I think the Knights Errant and some legions might be involved later on either in the closing phases of the war or the scouring

burtnernie
10-08-2014, 12:27
I really struggled with this book. This was the hardest to read, along side battle for the abyss. I am not sure where it fits in the HH? I am used to most of the books have some kind of story link, even sometimes quite a distant weak link, but a link nonetheless.

I understand getting the IH in a book, as well as the IF when their turn comes. But this was just a bit "blah" a kind of a ta da... and fizzle. Some parts were cool, but the planet based stuff was written ok, just without a point I guess.

Unless anyone can enlighten me?

I am not book bashing as I defend a lot of these books, regularly however this one has baffled me.

Tymell
10-08-2014, 21:27
Chronologically, it's several weeks after Isstvan.

In terms of connection to the wider story? Veritas Ferrum and Sermon of Exodus precede it. None of the characters in it appear elsewhere to my knowledge, though I don't mind that myself: not every story needs to have lots of connections to other stories, and following on from Isstvan V is itself a firm connection to the main story, it's just a branch of it, and it did leave things more open as to characters living or dying.

Plus there might be more to follow ;)

DarkChaplain
11-08-2014, 02:00
It also sets up the Damnation Cache plotline from Pandorax / one of the first engagements of the newly founded Grey Knights.

That being said, Sermon of Exodus also connects it to the Lodges on Davin. Got a feeling we'll be seeing more connections down the line.

Horus38
11-08-2014, 16:48
That being said, Sermon of Exodus also connects it to the Lodges on Davin. Got a feeling we'll be seeing more connections down the line.

I'm drawing a blank on the Sermon of Exodus. What was that from?

Tymell
11-08-2014, 18:34
I'm drawing a blank on the Sermon of Exodus. What was that from?

It's a short story from Sedition's Gate, the second Black Library event-exclusive anthology.

MiyamatoMusashi
11-08-2014, 19:18
I'm not going to describe these as "rules" or anything, but I have certainly observed that my preferred HH stories have all had some combination of (a) standing on their own as a good story - well, duh - and/or (b) advancing the overall plot.

For example, Fear To Tread was another story about Space Marines discovering daemons are real long after we-the-readers have; but at least (a) the descriptions of their discoveries were quite profound, and (b) it was absolutely necessary to learn what Sanguinius and the Blood Angels were up to at the time.

In Damnation of Pythos, the daemons-are-real schtick is not just tired but exhausted, and it wasn't otherwise a particularly memorable story; and I don't feel the plot progressed one iota, either. I agree that not everything has to be intertwined (with the same characters for example), but invoking tenuous links with stuff that happened thousands of years after the Heresy, or in short stories in limited availability collections (which I was under the impression existed to support the mainline novels not vice versa), is clutching at straws I think. I read Sermon of Exodus and although I don't remember the detail, ISTR thinking, "OK, that sets up Damnation of Pythos when I get to it"; but since it's not clear to me that DoP had any particular reason to exist, doesn't that leave SoP stranded?

Horus38
16-08-2014, 14:11
It's a short story from Sedition's Gate, the second Black Library event-exclusive anthology.

Ah thanks. I'm almost done Damnation of Pythos and I have to agree with a lot of the critiques in the thread. Gets an overwhelming "Meh" from me.

Norrin
19-08-2014, 16:57
Also I'm pretty happy that the HH series is taking its time with this. Far better than to simply rush forward to the endgame and wrap everything up with a neat bow, just as in the old fluff. The whole shattered legions plot is a good one, one pretty much absent from the older background, and the Iron Hands/Salamanders/Raven Guard deserve more than to pop their heads round the door in other heresy books.

Couldn't agree more. Let's face it, we all know about the big events in the HH and how it ends. I love learning of things I didn't know before. The HH series has been an exciting journey for me so far and I'm looking forward to more.

Nazguire
24-08-2014, 09:26
Couldn't agree more. Let's face it, we all know about the big events in the HH and how it ends. I love learning of things I didn't know before. The HH series has been an exciting journey for me so far and I'm looking forward to more.

I see your point, but this book does not contribute to the Horus Heresy setting. If I changed the logo to 40k instead of Horus Heresy there wouldn't be much to give it away.

Tymell
24-08-2014, 10:40
If I changed the logo to 40k instead of Horus Heresy there wouldn't be much to give it away.

You mean apart from the fact that it follows directly on from Isstvan V, and that a major theme of the entire book is exploring the repercussions of that event for the Iron Hands and their changing identity? Plus that Chaos is still a total unknown to them?

A story doesn't need to actually bring a primarch or legion closer to the endgame to contribute to the setting. HH is about more than just Terra.

shadowhawk2008
24-08-2014, 13:09
Gotta keep in mind that what we know is different from what the characters know. And exploring a similar situation from different viewpoints has some value too. of course, it can get a bit tiring I admit, but still, there's room enough for such stories.

nagash66
24-08-2014, 13:53
I think both sides have point. The problem i fear is that BL is effectively putting legion specific book under the umbrella of the HH. Which while technically correct can make some feel cheated if no overall progression of the story line is achieved. The worst offender being the first Dark Angel book ( descent of angels i believe? ).

I can understand why they do it from a marketing point of view, but i can also see why some may get peeved off, personally it has lead to me not buying anything on realease untill i find out exactly what short of story it contains.

DarkChaplain
24-08-2014, 18:14
I disagree that Descent of Angels does not serve the Heresy series. It is a setup, yes, but one that rakes its claws throughout the Heresy to the very end of it. It serves to build up the Lion as a character, and sets up various plotlines that have already been addressed and will carry on in other stories. Cypher: Guardian of the Order, a short audio drama, already makes it clear that the Oroborous is gonna return, and that the ritual in Fallen Angels hasn't actually defeated it, for example. The Dark Angels' loyalty is also being tested by Malcador and his Knights Errant - again, something that relied on Descent of Angels' buildup.
Fallen Angels' Caliban side wouldn't have been as effective without Descent of Angels in general. We got to see the culture the Dark Angels lost, which plays into their rebellion.

You shouldn't take Descent of Angels as a stand-alone Legion novel, like you might look at A Thousand Sons or Prospero Burns. That's not how it was written, how it was planned, or how it was followed up. How is it that people always seem to ask for Primarch origin novels, but complain about the ones they already got not driving the plot forward? Kinda silly.
But no, Descent of Angels is part of a story arc that spans the WHOLE Heresy. It builds themes for Fallen Angels and other stories to use, while focusing on the effects the coming of the Imperium has on a world that managed to police itself well enough thanks to a Primarch. Those details are relevant in the whole fall-from-grace story of the First Legion, and shouldn't be dismissed.


Likewise, The Damnation of Pythos is also building on other stories / connects with various stories from the Heresy. While the characters won't necessarily pop up elsewhere, the Damnation Cache and Madail undoubtedly will. I'd bet that the Cache alone is going to become a big factor in the Heresy's rush for Terra. And the Iron Hands' mentality and the Isstvan trauma ARE relevant to the whole of the Heresy. The Hands will have their points to shine, and then I will be glad about The Damnation of Pythos having dealt with their trauma in greater detail, and how they struggle to find their place again.


Fans should finally understand that the HH series has long since moved on from being solely about key events or Legion basics, and is instead focusing on a longer game now. The repercussions of an individual novel might not be immediately recognizable, but they WILL pop up again and play a role in the rest of the series. The HH series has become a convoluted mess, for sure, but it ties together quite well, and there are few short stories even that I would consider irrelevant reads that add nothing to the setting and plot.

fluxdeluxe
24-08-2014, 21:08
I disagree that Descent of Angels does not serve the Heresy series. It is a setup, yes, but one that rakes its claws throughout the Heresy to the very end of it. It serves to build up the Lion as a character, and sets up various plotlines that have already been addressed and will carry on in other stories. Cypher: Guardian of the Order, a short audio drama, already makes it clear that the Oroborous is gonna return, and that the ritual in Fallen Angels hasn't actually defeated it, for example. The Dark Angels' loyalty is also being tested by Malcador and his Knights Errant - again, something that relied on Descent of Angels' buildup.
Fallen Angels' Caliban side wouldn't have been as effective without Descent of Angels in general. We got to see the culture the Dark Angels lost, which plays into their rebellion.

You shouldn't take Descent of Angels as a stand-alone Legion novel, like you might look at A Thousand Sons or Prospero Burns. That's not how it was written, how it was planned, or how it was followed up. How is it that people always seem to ask for Primarch origin novels, but complain about the ones they already got not driving the plot forward? Kinda silly.
But no, Descent of Angels is part of a story arc that spans the WHOLE Heresy. It builds themes for Fallen Angels and other stories to use, while focusing on the effects the coming of the Imperium has on a world that managed to police itself well enough thanks to a Primarch. Those details are relevant in the whole fall-from-grace story of the First Legion, and shouldn't be dismissed.


Likewise, The Damnation of Pythos is also building on other stories / connects with various stories from the Heresy. While the characters won't necessarily pop up elsewhere, the Damnation Cache and Madail undoubtedly will. I'd bet that the Cache alone is going to become a big factor in the Heresy's rush for Terra. And the Iron Hands' mentality and the Isstvan trauma ARE relevant to the whole of the Heresy. The Hands will have their points to shine, and then I will be glad about The Damnation of Pythos having dealt with their trauma in greater detail, and how they struggle to find their place again.


Fans should finally understand that the HH series has long since moved on from being solely about key events or Legion basics, and is instead focusing on a longer game now. The repercussions of an individual novel might not be immediately recognizable, but they WILL pop up again and play a role in the rest of the series. The HH series has become a convoluted mess, for sure, but it ties together quite well, and there are few short stories even that I would consider irrelevant reads that add nothing to the setting and plot.


Bang on great post

nagash66
25-08-2014, 08:18
I disagree that Descent of Angels does not serve the Heresy series. It is a setup, yes, but one that rakes its claws throughout the Heresy to the very end of it. It serves to build up the Lion as a character, and sets up various plotlines that have already been addressed and will carry on in other stories. Cypher: Guardian of the Order, a short audio drama, already makes it clear that the Oroborous is gonna return, and that the ritual in Fallen Angels hasn't actually defeated it, for example. The Dark Angels' loyalty is also being tested by Malcador and his Knights Errant - again, something that relied on Descent of Angels' buildup.
Fallen Angels' Caliban side wouldn't have been as effective without Descent of Angels in general. We got to see the culture the Dark Angels lost, which plays into their rebellion.

You shouldn't take Descent of Angels as a stand-alone Legion novel, like you might look at A Thousand Sons or Prospero Burns. That's not how it was written, how it was planned, or how it was followed up. How is it that people always seem to ask for Primarch origin novels, but complain about the ones they already got not driving the plot forward? Kinda silly.
But no, Descent of Angels is part of a story arc that spans the WHOLE Heresy. It builds themes for Fallen Angels and other stories to use, while focusing on the effects the coming of the Imperium has on a world that managed to police itself well enough thanks to a Primarch. Those details are relevant in the whole fall-from-grace story of the First Legion, and shouldn't be dismissed.


Likewise, The Damnation of Pythos is also building on other stories / connects with various stories from the Heresy. While the characters won't necessarily pop up elsewhere, the Damnation Cache and Madail undoubtedly will. I'd bet that the Cache alone is going to become a big factor in the Heresy's rush for Terra. And the Iron Hands' mentality and the Isstvan trauma ARE relevant to the whole of the Heresy. The Hands will have their points to shine, and then I will be glad about The Damnation of Pythos having dealt with their trauma in greater detail, and how they struggle to find their place again.


Fans should finally understand that the HH series has long since moved on from being solely about key events or Legion basics, and is instead focusing on a longer game now. The repercussions of an individual novel might not be immediately recognizable, but they WILL pop up again and play a role in the rest of the series. The HH series has become a convoluted mess, for sure, but it ties together quite well, and there are few short stories even that I would consider irrelevant reads that add nothing to the setting and plot.

Let me just say great post, i totally disagree with it but still great post.

See where your view fails in my opinion is trying to convince me to buy novel ( in this case Descent of Angels) which does nothing to advance the overall story ( you point on the evolution of the HH series goals is valid now) because sometime in the future BL may or may not ( look at the recently canceled third arc to the Time of Legends Vampire trilogy) decide to release another novel for me to read in order for the first to become worthwhile. In addition they will not only fail to market it as a trilogy or a tie in book or even a character building book, but instead attempt to sell it on the merit of the series title ( HH) as whole.

I also reject your notion that it affects the heresy, the fall of Caliban is a post heresy event, The Lion doesn't return to his homeworld until after the Siege of Terra, the Dark Angels fall from grace while greatly impacts Imperial and their own Legion history barely effects the Heresy.

Then we have things like the return of the 'Oroborous ' another Caliban specific plot point which could kill 99% of the unamed marines on the planet and nothing would change, Luther would make more and the story would go on without anyone not on world battling an eye lead. But it COULD affect the Legion story line greatly, and SHOULD not take up Novels worth of the HH series, and if they do should at least be marketed as such.

Telling me a novel should be in the series because it sets up other novels in the series is basically telling me that the last Harry potter NEEDED to be split into 2 parts for the cinema, does it make more money? yes. Does it give the studios more time to work on other projects while still realising something in their star product line? yes, Did the hobbit need to be 3 parts? No. Dont get me wrong. Making good bookS about events that happens during the heresy is something i like to see, they don't need to to tie in or impact anything but the events of the novel itself.

I liked Damnation of Pythos, i would have gladly bought it if they sold it to me as a Broken Legion book, or even a stand alone HH novel ( which they really need to start doing) but by making it all part of one continuing series and simply shoehorning in weak ties in or having 1 veiled plot thread connect it to the core storyline they dilute and weaken the series as a whole.

Bl have taken it a step even further with their constant release of short story's and audio dramas, some actually are important to the overall story, some are nice standalone pieces and some could be lost forever and no future reader would wonder if they even existed. By making us the readers ever unsure which works fall into which category they not only risk alienating us as customers ( i stopped buying them on release a while ago). But damage their own product line, especially as you pointed out they intend to keep this up for years. Label what you sell, market its actual contents not what you think we want and let the work shine for its own merits.

MiyamatoMusashi
25-08-2014, 09:18
The primary problem with Descent of Angels isn't IMO that it "doesn't fit" the HH, but that it was rubbish.

PS. If "people" say one thing, other "people" can still say something else, because they are different people. Not sure why people (there it is again!) get so confused by this.

Tymell
25-08-2014, 09:28
The primary problem with Descent of Angels isn't IMO that it "doesn't fit" the HH, but that it was rubbish.

Seconded :p

Back on Damnation of Pythos topic, my overall opinion with novels "contributing" to the setting is pretty much: a good story is a good story. I don't really care how much or little it advances things (which itself is a bit of a tricky thing to quantify).

If there's one thing that -does- annoy me a little about the series lately, it's the huge increase in short stories. I mean, extra content is great and all, but it feels like some legions (especially those that had a novel early on in the series) are being spread around over lots of bitty stories that don't allow for much development, or feel as much of an investment as a full novel, and I'm concerned about big events getting done like this (e.g. Thramas, Tallarn, the Raven Guard's guerrilla war).

fluxdeluxe
25-08-2014, 17:21
Seconded :p

Back on Damnation of Pythos topic, my overall opinion with novels "contributing" to the setting is pretty much: a good story is a good story. I don't really care how much or little it advances things (which itself is a bit of a tricky thing to quantify).

If there's one thing that -does- annoy me a little about the series lately, it's the huge increase in short stories. I mean, extra content is great and all, but it feels like some legions (especially those that had a novel early on in the series) are being spread around over lots of bitty stories that don't allow for much development, or feel as much of an investment as a full novel, and I'm concerned about big events getting done like this (e.g. Thramas, Tallarn, the Raven Guard's guerrilla war).

Yes the short stories annoy me even some of the anthologies get on my nerves. There's tons, I tend to ignore them unless I know they are going to lead into one of the plot advancing books.

MarcusAurelius
26-08-2014, 02:27
For example, Fear To Tread was another story about Space Marines discovering daemons are real long after we-the-readers have; but at least (a) the descriptions of their discoveries were quite profound, and (b) it was absolutely necessary to learn what Sanguinius and the Blood Angels were up to at the time.

You...actually like Fear to Tread?

MiyamatoMusashi
26-08-2014, 06:25
It had its moments. Covered by my (a) and (b) in the post you quoted, really. There maybe wasn't much else to it that I found particularly inspiring, but at least it had those two things going for it. DoP, not so much.

Phunting
19-09-2014, 23:37
Finally got round to reading this. I hadn't sooner because to be fair, I'm utterly apathetic about the Iron Hands and foolishly judging it by its cover, I'd thought it was going to be akin to Promethean Sun, which also didn't interest. I was very pleasantly surprised, and for the most part really enjoyed this.

I'm not sure I agree with the 'discovering Chaos has been overdone' line. It has cropped up a fair few times, but usually only with SMs reacting with shock and surprise as they firefight with multitudes of daemons/possessed. This is the first time the series has seriously looked at the psychological aspects of Chaos, and attempts to rationalize it, and I really enjoyed that. By far my favourite part of Fear to Tread was the half chapter that dealt with the decent into chaos of Signus Prime, as the characters slowly start losing sanity. I loved that, but it was only a few pages, here we have most of an entire book, and I felt it was very fresh. I also thought the characterization was well done. I'm not good with names, and far too often the characters blur into each other, rarely being distinct from each other. This is probably the first book in a very long time where I didn't feel the need to flick back to the dramatis personae constantly to see which generic marine was which; they were well-defined, distinct characters.

Spoilers (I won't use tags, as they seem not to be working).



So it would probably be one of my absolute favourites of the series, if it wasn't for the climax. Not the ending; the grimdark ending itself was great, but the climax being a massive battle of thousands of daemons vs thousands of dinosaurs vs some marines just seemed a bit forgettable to me. I know this is Warhammer, and I suppose I have to expect the need to write gun battles into everything, but I really don't enjoy them that much. I'd have been much happier if it had ended on a much smaller scale, with the personal horror creating the climax and not just falling back to yet more battles. But still, even despite this, a fantastic entry into the series.

stormblade
20-09-2014, 05:28
This is probably the first book in a very long time where I didn't feel the need to flick back to the dramatis personae constantly to see which generic marine was which; they were well-defined, distinct characters.



I agree with this, I think this is one of the rare novels where space marines have some kind of personality while still being space marines and not just 'big strong humans' like in most novels.

DarkChaplain
20-09-2014, 10:28
Agreed, Phunting, it's been pretty characterful and well-constructed, and turned the daemons from "yawn, these xenos are a bit weird" back into actual horrors that are supposed to be sanity-overwhelming nightmares. The psychological drama was nicely done, and I'd call TDoP one of, if not the best novel in the series that introduces daemons and their fallout to a Legion.

It was especially nice to have all those contrasting viewpoints and philosophies at work. Galba, Atticus and Darras all had their varying degrees on the Iron Hands dogma, whereas Khi'dem, Ptero and Erephren brought a more balanced focus to the table. It was a very nice selection of characters to focus on.

simpleba
06-02-2015, 18:43
I've decided to no longer reward or encourage the Black Library staff for this garbage. As long as readers are nickled and dimed to death with novels that do nothing to advance the story line, I'll be reading something else. The HH has become nothing but a cash cow for BL. Go back and read the first four novels in the series. That is what we deserve, not dumpster fires like The Furious Abyss, Vulkan Lives, Unremembered Empire, and this ****. Shame on those whoresons at BL!

Tymell
06-02-2015, 19:34
I've decided to no longer reward or encourage the Black Library staff for this garbage. As long as readers are nickled and dimed to death with novels that do nothing to advance the story line, I'll be reading something else. The HH has become nothing but a cash cow for BL. Go back and read the first four novels in the series. That is what we deserve, not dumpster fires like The Furious Abyss, Vulkan Lives, Unremembered Empire, and this ****. Shame on those whoresons at BL!

1.) The storyline -is- advancing. It's rapidly becoming a massive peeve of mine the way so many -keep- -on- insisting it isn't (most of the time not even clarifying what exactly they mean by that), when it is. Stuff that jumps back and forth, like Damnation of Pythos, has been around since the beginning of the series, it's nothing new.

2.) Personally, I tend to judge a novel's quality by things like the story, the quality of the writing, and so on. Not what point in time it's set in.

3.) Was it really necessary to pull up a 6 month old thread so you could have a rant about the HH series? And don't assert shame on Black Library as a whole, and label them "whoresons" just because you feel the series is going on too long. Regardless of anyone's personal take on the series, there's criticism, and then there's just rudeness.

bound for glory
11-02-2015, 00:23
i kinda liked the book. had a goofy ending, but it was good.
best line from the book was when atticus first saw the dinos feasting."rid my sight of them"...(bad ass)

The Black Shield
11-02-2015, 01:52
I don't know what people are whining about. The Heresy is a HUGE part of the background of 40K. If they did not flesh "IT ALL OUT" people would whine that there wasn't enough. Anyways they said a long time ago that this was going to be a long and convoluted story. Get over it. If you want something simple go read the Left Behind series.

MajorWesJanson
12-02-2015, 00:57
Some Heresy novels advance the storyline. Others expand the setting. So long as they are full novels (and not LE novellas or quick read micros or audiodramas) I will continue to support the Heresy series.

fluxdeluxe
12-02-2015, 09:34
Some Heresy novels advance the storyline. Others expand the setting. So long as they are full novels (and not LE novellas or quick read micros or audiodramas) I will continue to support the Heresy series.


People whine so much about the progression of the story that they miss the more important sticking point. All this garbage of limited edition novellas and now novels not available anywhere blah blah. It's poor in my opinion, lore should not be hoarded by the few nor should these limited books covering quite important events in the heresy be withheld.

How far does this go? Will the battle of terra be a limited edition novel given to the few who attend the Walthamstowe store open day, will the final confrontation on the vengeful spirit be an event exclusive novel not to reach us mere mortals with families and demanding jobs a year later. It really really grates.

The Black Shield
12-02-2015, 19:52
Ilike the audio dramas, but I agree with you about the LE Novellas and E-books. Just trying to figure out what books are coming out on the Black Library website is next to impossible thanks to all the extraneous exclusive crap.

Nazguire
15-02-2015, 04:22
I don't know what people are whining about. The Heresy is a HUGE part of the background of 40K. If they did not flesh "IT ALL OUT" people would whine that there wasn't enough. Anyways they said a long time ago that this was going to be a long and convoluted story. Get over it. If you want something simple go read the Left Behind series.

You can have a long and convoluted story that doesn't have obvious filler in it for no reason other than ringing the cash cow's udder.

littleRaven
10-03-2015, 22:39
I've only just started this one some parts are interesting in dialogue buut if this dinosaur lark keeps up to much I'll be bored & the Iron hands I find always hard to like (it takes time at least) I guess that's part their character ...cold as iron?;)


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Bun Bun
11-03-2015, 00:15
I've only just started this one some parts are interesting in dialogue buut if this dinosaur lark keeps up to much I'll be bored & the Iron hands I find always hard to like (it takes time at least) I guess that's part their character ...cold as iron?;)

This book is all about monsters, be they the dinosaurs that roam the jungles of Pythos, the monsters that look from beyond or the monster that is the flesh hating Captain Durun Atticus of the Iron Hands. It is the closest the Horus Heresy really gets to a real Steven King style horror story.

littleRaven
11-03-2015, 00:20
....darn ;) hopefully it's bit better than Promethean sun.


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Bun Bun
11-03-2015, 01:23
It does get better and this book will set things up for when a certain agency eventually (You will understand why I say this on the very last page) arrives to deal with the aftermath of the events in this book. The people I feel sorry for in the book are the non-Astartes who crew the Veritas Ferrum, they are the real victims in this story, as they have none of the psychological conditioning to fortify their minds with and must face all the horror in full. However you really do get a good look at how badly Istvaan V affected a good number of the Iron Hands. It is a stark contrast to those Iron Hands in Angel Exterminatus.

Tymell
13-03-2015, 12:47
It's a decent look at the IH, and the dinos don't actually play that big a role. They appear early on when the IH arrive, then again during the climax, but for most of the story they're more just there in the background.

littleRaven
14-03-2015, 22:06
Good to know cheers guys


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bound for glory
05-05-2015, 03:11
i quite liked the discriptions of the iron hands attack on the EC ships. that was very good. loved how they defeated the EC dred...