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kieranhoare
15-02-2014, 02:27
Hi guys

So with the rumours of imperial knights floating around, i had a look through their fluff of what I can find and they look awesome. However would any space marine, particularly a chapter master ever pilot an imperial knight? I play a home brew chapter based on black Templars and as a captain leads a company, and a chapter master leads 10 space marine companies, I just want something a bit more special for my actually chapter master (I'm basing my chapter on the older codex, with the castellion being a captain as they lead a company, the marshal being more or less a chapter master as their lead a crusade, just less official powers then a proper chapter master, and the high marshal being incharged of the entire chapter)

thanks guys

Beppo1234
15-02-2014, 02:47
fluff it up, make sure the rules work, and go for it.

Wakerofgods
15-02-2014, 04:17
What about CSM?

Wolf Lord Balrog
15-02-2014, 04:22
You can make up whatever you want of course. The existing fluff though is that Knight Titans are piloted Planetary Warrior-Lords, who rule resource rich planets allied to an Adeptus Mechanicus Forge World. In turn, each Forge World has a network of alliances with other Imperial organizations: Imperial Guard Regiments, Space Marine Chapters/Companies, Sisters of Battle Orders, etc. So Titans join with other Imperial military groups for specific battles either because they have been ordered to by authorities on Mars or Terra, or because they have an agreement or alliance with the group in question. So, in theory at least, any Imperial army could be joined by a Titan of any sort.

Edit: Similarly, the Dark Mechanicus that joined the Traitor Legions also often team-up with Chaos Marines and/or Daemons.

Ghazbad_Facestompa
15-02-2014, 04:27
It's not implausible, especially for a very Mechanicus-aligned chapter. Something like a dreadknight may fit better, but the Knight looks 20 to 30 times better than the baby-carrier.

hobojebus
15-02-2014, 14:55
Urgh that baby carrier still makes me cry sometimes, what idiot thought that was good enough to go into production.

dangerboyjim
15-02-2014, 20:10
You could conceivably have a knight world that Space Marines recruit from. (A crusader chapter like BT recruits as they go I think)
Someone trained to pilot a knight could then be inducted into the marine chapter
The chapter could conceivably receive a knight, either as tithe, gift or war bounty
The marine could then pilot the knight and go on to be chapter master.

It's not the way I would do it, I would prefer Marines to be marine and knight houses to be knight houses, it's like a marine becoming an Inquisitor or something, you could work out some convoluted reason to make it happen but it's not the way it's really supposed to work... having said that, if it works for you, go for it!

In the early days of GW Space Marines could end up piloting titans and stuff, so I guess you could say it's going ultra retro.

MajorWesJanson
15-02-2014, 20:58
Or just have a Knight house that has allied itself to the Black templars, and wear the Templar colors and heraldry in recognition of that.

dangerboyjim
15-02-2014, 21:01
That makes a lot of sense.

Or you could have the last remaining knight of his house seeking vengeance against an enemy shared by the BT. Prepared to follow the BT crusade initially out of revenge and later because he has no where else to go...

hobojebus
16-02-2014, 15:08
@Hobojebus
Were it not for the Dreadknight then ask yourself if this kit would be forthcoming?

Probably given that warhound titans pre-date that abomination it wasn't the first big kit they've done as a company you know, I think Its a stupid design deal with it.

kieranhoare
17-02-2014, 05:02
thank you guys, that's given me a lot to think about, at the moment i'm thinking about is one of the worlds the chapter recruited from became a knight world after the chapter left the system, and then a tyranid fleet attacked the planet (like a few thousand years after the chapter left), the tyranid fleet took massive casualities, but in the end the knight world fell. (My necron army at some recent point managed to gain control of a severly damaged hive ship, and thus this battle could explain what happened to the ship.). There would be a few survivors some of them knight pilots and their knights, and they swear loyalty to my chapter seeking revenge against tyranids. The reason why my chapter master has the honour of being able to pilot a knight is because he is related to what ever rank is the highest among imperial knight pilots, who was in command during the tyranid invasion, he sacrificed himself in order to allow the few survivors to escape. The surviving knights thought it would be a good idea of how to honour their commander's sacrifice

dangerboyjim
17-02-2014, 21:50
The original knight worlds, (in the old fluff, I'm expecting it to change...) were all established pre heresy, so a chapter recruiting from the world, and it then becoming an independent knight world, seems very unlikely if not impossible. I suppose it's possible the Mechanicus founded a new knight world, but if that's the case, I doubt they would be keen on a space marine chapter recruiting from them.

I also strongly doubt any adherent of the codex astartes would think that the chapter master piloting a walking tank, would be in keeping with, what is essentially, their religious text. Nor is it common sense if you think about it... the chapter master is best placed where he can give orders, not piloting a big walker.

Also in practical terms the knight is designed to be piloted by a human, a space marine is much, much larger. Not entirely sure they would fit.

I can see you really want your chapter master piloting the walker, it's an interesting idea, if you really want it, go for it.

But I would really keep the two things separate, apart from anything else it means you can field a chapter master AND a knight in the big battles!

MajorWesJanson
17-02-2014, 22:08
Maybe have the Knight world overrun by nids, and the Marines recover a damaged knight chassis before they evacuate. Maybe a marine fell in battle, and qualifies for interment into a Dreadnought, but there are no spare Dreadnought chassis, so they wire him into the Knight chassis MIU instead.

BramGaunt
17-02-2014, 22:16
Uh. A Space Marine Dreadnaught Sarcophagus instead of a face... I like it.

Fugazi
17-02-2014, 22:23
@kieranhoare: Sounds like enough of a reason to me. (I don't have a problem with people going off "literal" fluff if they spend time with the backstory.) Maybe make it a knight world that went renegade, then the chapter started recruiting there...etc...(to slightly better fit the "official" timeline). Another thought: if you are persuaded by other poster's arguments that the Chapter Master shouldn't pilot the Knight, maybe make it the Captain of the 1st Company, or an honor for a Champion, etc.

@hobojebus: I'm with you. If I can scratch up enough coin, the IK means never having to field a baby carrier.

Denny
18-02-2014, 15:57
A chapter master piloting a Knight sounds far less badass than a chapter master facing his enemies face to face . . .

Plus, anyone with the right training can pilot a knight. It would seem odd to waste the talents of a Space Marine (let alone a Chapter master) with such a task.

But its your army. Do what you want.

Dr.Clock
18-02-2014, 19:29
Dread sarcophagus... As has been said, any Marine's true place is in the thick of battle, side by side with his brothers - and most especially the leaders. Especially for chapters like Templars: they are very rigid about their honour, and martial pride.

But a dreadnought style config works fine - it's a way for the marine to remain in service even after he has 'died'. You could easily have it be a one-off creation of the techmarines and magi of a knight world - the two, the knight and the templar, could have fought side-by-side in a heroic defence, and fallen together, only to be made one in the service of the Emperor's crusade. It could even be the Chapter Master who went down, and he retains that title, but the 'functional' command of the Chapter would have to then fall to a successor in order to ensure that the day-to-day of the chapter was maintained while the dread-knight was in stasis (most of the time). By all means, have a Knight house closely tied to the chapter following the loss of the planet, and even use very similar heraldry (Knight pilots will maintain personal heraldic devices), but the operational leader of a Space Marine Chapter is by no means going to be running and hiding in a mechanical walker when his brothers are bleeding on the field. Marines lead by example.

In sum: I like the idea of a kind of 'accidental' dreadnought character created in an emergency situation to commemorate a personal and collective victory (or defeat!) far more than simply using the Knight as an extremely fancy suit of armour for a marine of any stripe.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Private_SeeD
26-02-2014, 17:28
I was reading up on the imperial knights on the 40k lexicanum and they mention a few types that can't be made using get upcoming kit so will FW be taking up the slack as usual? But back to the OP I would go with converting the knights head to contain a dreadnought sarcophagus, just make your chapter either have close ties to the mechanicum or it has a forge world near its home world etc.


Sent from my omni tool

Chem-Dog
26-02-2014, 17:54
Generally I would think it's unlikely I doubt the two are compatible however


Or just have a Knight house that has allied itself to the Black templars, and wear the Templar colors and heraldry in recognition of that.


Maybe have the Knight world overrun by nids, and the Marines recover a damaged knight chassis before they evacuate. Maybe a marine fell in battle, and qualifies for interment into a Dreadnought, but there are no spare Dreadnought chassis, so they wire him into the Knight chassis MIU instead.

These two ideas from Wes, as ever, are excellent. The first one says all that can be said about the idea bar from noting that to be allowed to bear the markings of an Astartes Chapter is a singular privilege.
The second idea follows a compelling thread. If one compares the interment of a wounded Astartes into a dreadnought to the amniotic tanks in which many senior Titan Princeps inhabit during their later years it could then follow that the technology exists to put a wounded Marine into a Knight BUT this would be a permanent measure, he wouldn't then be able to climb out and do normal Marine-y stuff. Further complications would then arise from the Marines lacking the expertise and necessary equipment to repair and maintain (or transport) the Knight (I doubt very much that it's in the data-packets received by Tech Marines during their time on Mars). You could argue that a Tech-Marine has either "invented" the process or somehow acquired the necessary knowledge (perhaps as a reward from a grateful Magos, they can be quite generous when you save their Forge-Worlds or maybe uncovered lost schematics similar to the reasoning behind the Blood Angels' proprietary use of the Lucifer Chassis).

So, n short. I wouldn't personally dream of creating any more of a link between a Knight and Marines than a pact of mutual support* or possibly a traditional presence of one with the other, maybe even an honour-debt. But that doesn't mean you can't fluff your own closer links.

*It occurs to me a close alliance might be in place if a Marine Chapter draws recruits from a world which has Knight defenders or is general stationed close to such a world.

Navar
26-02-2014, 19:51
I don't like this idea. To me is seems almost too Mary Sue-ish for my tastes. (A trap that many fall into when writing fluff.)

I think that the way to pull off the basic idea is to get a Forge World Contemptor (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Dreadnoughts/CONTEMPTOR_PATTERN_DREADNOUGHT_BODY.html) (the Relic (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Dreadnoughts/RELIC-CONTEMPTOR-DREADNOUGHT-BODY.html) version is quite nice) and run with that for your "Chapter Master."

To an extent the Space Marines shouldn't get ALL of the toys. And I get it, you want to make your chapter master super special, but this is a bad way to go about it.

Build him an awesome model, and then paint it fantastically. Write some amazing fluff about him. Try to be consistent as well. He shouldn't be the best in melee and ranged combat versus tyranids, necrons, tau, and an expert in the language and culture of the Saim Hann because one of his parents was secretly 1/4 Eldar.

I like the "Rule of Cool" as much as the next guy, but it is possible to go to far, and having your chapter master (esp. from a chapter that isn't known for it's ties to the AdMec) be a super special Imperial Knight (again IMHO because you asked) goes way to far.

Having a Freeblade who has allied themselves with your chapter is pretty singular in it's own right, and seems to be far and away the best way to go. (Again IMHO because you asked.)