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View Full Version : Starting a Eldar Aspect Warrior army.



Merellin
15-02-2014, 14:54
So, After thinking and considering for a while what army to start once my necrons hit 3000 points I decided, On my friends sugestion, to start Eldar. And since my friend plays Iyanden with many wraith units, I decided to go for Aspect Warriors (Primarily) I want to use Illic Nightspear as my HQ (One of them atleast) and one group of Pathfinders, And then use mostly Aspect Warriors, Not too many vehicles, And only one, At most two, Wave Serpents. Would this army work out in a not super competetive enviorment? We mostly run friendly matches.

bork da basher
15-02-2014, 18:50
in friendly matches anything can work if being competitive isn't what you're going for.

aspect warrior footdar type armies can be a lot of fun but i still think you'll be limited in their effectiveness without taking wave serpents, at least for your troop choices (dire avengers i assume) and units like fire dragons which need a delivery system. if your playing an elite force they need the protection and the speed or they'll die in droves before they become useful.

im surprised you want to use illic in an aspect warrior army, he doesn't exactly fit the fluff and pathfinders are hugely overpriced and not very good, theres a reason no one takes them over regular rangers. the avatar, karandras or fuegan would be a great choice for an aspect warrior force and would fit the fluff too.

pretty much all the aspect warriors are useful now, with the exception of banshees, mostly because scorpions do the same job only better and have an inbuilt delivery system. you'll be mad not to take warp spiders as they can take on a multitude of rolls from cracking open tanks, bringing down flyers, gunning down infantry, MC's you name it they can kill it with the exception of AV14 stuff. hawks are superb all rounders too, great vs horde armies but good all round. im not keen on shining spears but they aren't bad. dragons in a serpent are great for killing heavy armour and reapers for gunning down MEQ.

one thing i will advise you to do is be careful what exarchs you take and how you arm them, it can be very tempting to include them everywhere and arm them to the teeth but the cost adds up quickly and before you know it you could have bought an extra unit for what you spent.

if you're only playing among friends with fun lists it'll do fine but it's not something id ever consider for competitive play or tourneys.

druchii
15-02-2014, 18:57
So, After thinking and considering for a while what army to start once my necrons hit 3000 points I decided, On my friends sugestion, to start Eldar. And since my friend plays Iyanden with many wraith units, I decided to go for Aspect Warriors (Primarily) I want to use Illic Nightspear as my HQ (One of them atleast) and one group of Pathfinders, And then use mostly Aspect Warriors, Not too many vehicles, And only one, At most two, Wave Serpents. Would this army work out in a not super competetive enviorment? We mostly run friendly matches.

Sure they can be competitive. Some Dire Avengers in wave serpents. Maybe some dragons in one too. Warp Spiders are great "foot slogging" units, and reapers behind an aegis with an icarus are hilarious. The reaper exarch can shoot the lascannon twice with interceptor and skyfire!

Also remember that Crimson Hunters are aspect warriors, so you CAN include some fliers, fluffily, in the list.

If you're doing an all aspect army I think it'd be a crying shame to not have a phoenix lord somewhere...

d

Merellin
15-02-2014, 19:00
Dont Eldar have any other transport that isent over powerd and wont lable you as a power gamer? and I want to use Illic as I realy like the model.. XD I dont actualy have the codex yet (Not buying it till I finish my 3000 points of necrons. Set it as a goal that I cant buy anything for any other army untill I get 3000 points in my necron army) So I'm realy just going on the looks of the models.

bork da basher
15-02-2014, 19:28
ok, i got to stop you there.... the wave serpent is not overpowered or broken. its a transport/battle tank and costs a lot of points for what it does. just because it's good doesn't mean it's broken and it's our ONLY option as a dedicated transport. taking 1-3 serpents is fine and anyone who gives you backlash or calls you a powergamer for using them hasn't got a clue what he's talking about. taking 4+ and you're entering the realm of 'spam' if you're using min units to squeeze in serpents. ie taking 4x 5 man units of avengers in serpents is considered spam and somewhat bad form.

it's not designed to be a rhino, it's meant to be a battle tank with transport capacity and it is costed appropriately for that role. believe me if we had access to cheap fast transports like raiders and venoms we'd be overjoyed. most armies have a few options for transport but eldar only got one (yes the falcon can transport 6 guys but its not dedicated and Heavy support so may as well not exist) so GW saw fit to give us one really good one.

play what you want to play, you're building a fluffy aspect warrior themed list, no one can call you a powergamer playing that using serpents or not.

Merellin
15-02-2014, 19:41
Alright. Hmm.. Could anyone give some tips on a Aspect Warrior army? What HQ's to use and such? I like Illic because of the model, He looks awesome. But are there fluffier HQ's? And what about psychers? Would a farseer or warlock fit into a Aspect Warrior list? I still got a while before I can start my Eldar, But I'm almost there (I currently have about 2495 points of Necrons so I think after my next three purchases I will have 3000 points and will be able to start Eldar^^)

Nubl0
15-02-2014, 19:51
Fluff wise this is pretty much a biel tan army, sooo really the most suitable HQ for the sword wind would be the avatar of khaine.

bork da basher
15-02-2014, 20:04
the avatar or a pheonix lord would be fairly essential for fluff purposes and would benefit your army the most but theres nothing to stop you putting a farseer in there too, use him in conjunction with the likes of warp spiders and they become very deadly indeed. or you could use illic but i honestly think he's not worth his points by a long way.

i'd happily play with something like this and feel i have a good chance.

karandras
farseer / jetbike

10 dire avengers / serpent
10 dire avengers / serpent
3 jetbikes
3 jetbikes

10 scorpions / exarch + claw (karandras in unit)
5-6 fire dragons / serpent

8 warp spiders
8 warp spiders
crimson hunter exarch

6 dark reapers
3 war walkers / dual bright lances

2000pts more or less, working off the top of my head.

Merellin
15-02-2014, 20:16
Biel-Tan seems nice, Though being mostly white it seems like a pain to paint as white is a rather hard color to get to look good.. And I suck at painting.. XD

bork da basher
15-02-2014, 20:29
paint them whatever colour you like, there is no ruleset for biel tan craftworld they are just fluffily the craftworld that uses a higher proportion of aspect warriors in their army, nothing to stop you using them as any other craftworld, it's not like the other craftworlds, even iyanden, don't have aspect shrines or wouldn't make use of high numbers of aspect warriors if the situation called for it.

biel tan are extremely easy to paint if you own an airbrush, if not i wouldn't paint that much flat white with a brush for anything. yikes!

Poseidal
15-02-2014, 21:04
My Biel-tan are majority green rather than white. The White is mosty on Guardians which I don't use many of (as it is an aspect heavy force) while the topside of tanks and walkers use the green scheme with the thorns. The wraith units I have have white heads with green for the main body (apart from one Wraithlord).

Bob Arctor
15-02-2014, 22:16
I have seen some studio models for Biel-tan where they replaced the white with a mid-grey for a slightly different look, which should be easier to paint. No reason they have to come from Biel-tan though as all the larger Craftworlds have at least one of every Aspect shrine. Biel-tan are just the most likely to field aspect armies.

For HQ's the Avatar, Phoenix Lords and Autarch have the best thematic and visual fit, but a Farseer would be appropriate too (a highly specialised army like that would need his abilities).

Dwane Diblie
16-02-2014, 02:36
If you do not use a single guardian in your army then you do not really have to pick a craftworld for your army as Aspect Warriors traditionally have their own colours belonging to their shrine. You can of course unify them all if you want and there is nothing stopping you from doing that. Also there is nothing stopping you from creating your own colours and using any fighting style with in your army. Go nuts and be creative. I personally have my aspects tied in to the avatar. They all have a molten metal (Deep Yellow) underskin with the plates still painted in traditional colours and war patterns on their helmets to distinguish between squads of the same aspect.

Fluffy HQs. Well there are really only 2 that are not fluffy for an aspect army, Illic Nightspear and Spiritseers. Though that being said, aspect squads can benefit greatly from Spiritseers. You could justify their inclusion if you take the Iyanden Sup. A Farseer and Warlocks are Aspects but not Aspect Warriors, though they spend a lot of time working with them. For a true Aspect Waring army though I would probably limit it to The Avatar, Autarchs or any of the Phoenix Lords.

Wave Serpents... *sigh* I love Wave Serpents. I always have. I have had Wave Serpents since we got the conversion guide in WD eons ago. I have been using them since at least 3ed. Problem is all during 4th and 5th, I copped flak for using them because they where rubbish. I still won games with them back then and they where pretty solid but not overly powerful back then. So I was considered to be hindering my self by taking them.
NOW THOUGH, I copped so much flack for "following suit and taking the most ridiculously over powered unit in the game" (some people really blow it all out of proportion), thinking that I have just picked up my 3 Wave Serpents since the codex came out. So, after copping this for 3 months I decided to, for a month, limit myself to not playing with them. Played 7 games and won 5 of them with out a single Wave Serpent.
The problem people are having with the power level of Wave Serpents comes down to one build out of five. The other 4 are still good but no where near as versatile as ScatterShield. So go for it. Take a couple if you need the ability to transport a unit greater than 6 across the battle field. Do not spam them and you opponent may whinge for the first game or two, purely because s/he has been reading the internets, before realising that they can easily be dealt with if they need to be.

Banshees. DO NOT LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE POO POOING THEM. Banshees are the worst of a very good bunch of melee troops. They are still a good unit, they have to be used a little smartly but they do work very well in the right situation, which is what Eldar Aspects are about after all. Try to think of Banshees as a back line deference unit rather than an offence unit. Yes, it is incredibly hard to get them across the board and in to your enemies line, but with some good cover and threat redirection you can achieve this. Not my recommendation though. Keep them hidden and pounce on any fast moving assault units that come in to your battle line. Just steer clear of any As:2+ units and you should be good.

Army Comp:
After taking the time to read the codex, consider trying to get at least one of every Aspect unit in to the list. This will be a little challenging, especially with the Fast attack slot as there are 5 Fast Attack Aspects if you include Shadow Specters (Forge World) in the list. I would assume you would be aiming for 3000 points with this list also, so it should be doable with 2 FOCs. Consider 2 Crimson Hunters (one Exarch) so you have a representation of a squad. I would of recommended 3 if FOC slots allowed.
If you decide to not take every Aspect, then I highly recommend Warp Spiders, Striking Scorpions and Dark Reapers for their survivalist and versatility. There are no bad Aspects, just some you could expect to be better than they are.

Finally, Illic and Path Finders. Illic is an interesting character. Has some very interesting rules. Is not very powerful and probably the easiest character in the entire Eldar list to kill. I still like him and I love the model and he does occasionally have his uses. As for pathfinders. I would never take more than one minimum squad and even then I would rather take other things. Basic Ranger are really good enough compared to Pathfinders. If you where doing a guardian based Outcast list then I would say take some for fluffy reasons but that would be really the only reason to take them. But the model and use him occasionally, but build a list with out him first I recon.

Dr.Clock
16-02-2014, 07:38
Yup... this'll work just fine in a friendly environment.

In fact, the main thing that IMO will make such a list harder to capitalize on is not the aspect-focus, but the rangers. As far as troops go, they are neither fantastically killy, nor fantastically resilient. Guardians IMO are simply better in terms of adding resilience and firepower to an infantry-focused list. I never leave home without 2 big blobs of farseer-supported guardians.

This is the other issue with Ilic: the fact that you have to sacrifice a farseer to take him makes him less than ideal in my books... I'll pretty much always take dual far seers in my lists simply because 100 points for such a solid support character is too good to pass up.

All this being said, it will be a super-fun list to play.

I'd consider something like this:

Ilic - 140

Farseer -spear - 105

2x 10 DA - shimmer - 380

7 rangers - 84

6 Rangers - 72

2x3 windriders - cannon - 122

2x 6 warp spiders - spinneret - 298

10 scorpions - claw - 210

10 dragons - 210

WL - dual BL - glaive - 165

3 walkers - SL/Star - 210

2 serpents - scatter - holos - 270

6 reapers - starshot - 228

The windriders are in there to provide fast, sneaky contesting potential that could win you games... I still don't have any jetbikes, but I can tell that their scoring potential alone is worth the small cost of their inclusion. I often find myself in sticky situations where my infantry gets bogged down... having a few 'wild card' units would help immeasurably.

Other than this, you can see that this list is more or less a hammer/anvil type situation, with some forward elements and a solid rearguard moving up on the middle of the board. You've got a significant infiltrating element, some mobile troubleshooters in transports + the spiders for picketing, and then a unit of DA+wraithlord moving up under cover of the walkers and Reapers. I haven't used my reapers yet, but I think they'll be great fun. In larger games, I think they should escape notice if you can present enough threats... remember that they can move and fire...

Anyway, eldar are good fun, and their codex is strong enough to allow you to build good lists without constantly retreating to serpent spam.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Merellin
16-02-2014, 08:53
Thanks for all the replies, help and tips! I would like to get as many diferent aspect warriors in the army as I can, Atleast to have something to change between even if I dont use all of them in every list. As for Pathfinders, Arent they upgraded Rangers..? And Rangers seem good, So why are Pathfinders bad?

bork da basher
16-02-2014, 11:25
because they are so expensive points wise. 22pts per model for what is still a ranger but with a better cover save and precision shots. they aren't without their uses but i could get 2 rangers for every pathfinder with change. which i'd rather take every single time.

Merellin
16-02-2014, 11:29
Ouch, Dident know they where that expensive. Well, That explains why people dont like them ^_^


Oh! Also, With the phoenix lords, Should I put them in their own type of unit? So if I use Karandras, He should be used in a group of Striking Scorpions, Or is he of better use in a diferent unit?

Dr.Clock
16-02-2014, 13:45
I think it really does depend on the Phoenix Lord...

Karandras is most definitely going to be a great help in a unit of Scorpions, but Fuegan or Maugan can probably bring their greater flexibiity in both shooting and assault to other kinds of unit to add some stiffness in line units such as Avengers, Guardians etc. Remember that both the the 'big gun' P. Lords have split fire, so they are good for shooting up transports for their squadmates to then attack the contents... The thing with Karandras is that he is really just a CC beater, so infiltrating in with his homies is probably the best place for him.

Jain Zar I could see being used as a kind of 'buffer' unit where she can charge off on her own if heavy assault units or deepstrikers threaten to turn back your infantry. She could easily charge into many units on her own... but in other units as well, her -5 to enemy WS/I on the charge could see most units crumble to even a DA assault after the obligatory double-tap from shuriken...

Asurmen is probably best off with his kindred Aspect warriors... He's got potential as a counter to just about any other tooled up assault character in the game, but where Karandras does so through sheer offensive output, Asurmen is more of a 'spoiler' who can inst-gib most anyone, and still take all kinds of incoming attack thanks to his invulnerable save.

Baharroth... I'm unsure... Never used hawks.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Merellin
16-02-2014, 18:43
Just got home from the gaming club. Played two matches against a friend today, And the first match I borrowed his Eldar and played against his Space Marines. It was quite fun, Even if I lost. The matcgh ended and I had 2 models left n one objective, And he held two objectives.. XD

Oh! Could someone tell me a bit about the Shadow Specters from forgeworld? And what book has their most current rules? Is it still Imperial Armour 11 The Doom of Mymeara, Or have they been updated in for example Imperial Armour Apocalypse?

Dwane Diblie
17-02-2014, 04:12
I can do one better. Here are the rules.

Shadow Specters (http://http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/s/shadowspectres.pdf)

IRILLYTH, THE SHADE OF TWILIGHT (http://http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/I/Irillyth-2.pdf)

Direct from Forge World download page.

Enjoy.

Merellin
17-02-2014, 14:02
Ah, Thank you! ^_^


Oh yeah! I just rememberd, While I'm planning to use a Aspect Warrior army, I would like to have some other stuff aswell so I can play some diferent lists, and maybe some vehicles. And I looked at some color schemes, And I realy like Yme-Loc, But my friend has a all orange Eldar army, So I was thinking, Would a dark red color work instea do f the orange for the helmet and shoulder pads and chest plates? Also, What grey color would work best of the GW paints?

Master_of_Asgard
17-02-2014, 18:52
I came up with an Aspect Warrior list a little while ago just to see what it would be like. I was trying to make it effective but not too cheesy. For me it's the TL Scatter Lasers that make the Wave Serpent broken, so I avoided them. I've got a standard Mantle Autarch in there but it can still fit the fluff. I also tried to get as many Exarchs with powers in there as possible, and it has every Aspect Warrior type except Shining Spears.
Here it is:

HQ
Autarch with Jetbike, Mantle, Laser Lance, Banshee Mask and Fusion Gun- 150
Autarch with Warp Jump Generator, Fusion Gun and Scorpion Chainsword- 98

Troops
10 Dire Avengers with Exarch and Shimmershield- 160
10 Dire Avengers with Exarch and Shimmershield- 160
5 Dire Avengers with Wave Serpent with Shuriken Cannon- 190
5 Dire Avengers with Wave Serpent with Shuriken Cannon- 190

Elites
5 Striking Scorpions with Exarch, Scorpion's Claw and Crushing Blow- 135
5 Fire Dragons with Wave Serpent, TL Bright Lance, Exarch, Fire Pike and Fast Shot- 275
5 Howling Banshees with Exarch, Executioner and Fear- 100

Fast Attack
6 Swooping Hawks with Exarch, Sunrifle and Marsksman's Eye- 131
5 Warp Spiders with Exarch, Spinneret Rifle, Fast shot- 130
Crimson Hunter- 160

Heavy Support
3 Dark Reapers with Exarch, Eldar Missile Launcher and Marksman's Eye- 120

1999 points total.