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Shadow_Steed
22-02-2014, 13:39
Greetings!

I have the terminators + dreadnaught from the former 40k starter set (that where Ultra Marines and Orks). Is the SMs in the box usable to any SM chapter or are they specific to Ultra Marines? If so, give me examples of things you can do to convert them to become Dark Angels.

Thanks!

hobojebus
22-02-2014, 14:31
They are pretty generic lad you could use them for DA, but wouldn't you rather play a less back stabbing chapter like the noble space wolves hmm?

Theocracity
22-02-2014, 14:35
I think the only concern is the shoulder pads, which might have molded on Ultramarines insignia. You can scrape those off and replace them with transfers or whatever you like.

Actually now that I think about it, don't DA have a different tac marine sign than UM? You might have to deal with that too, or just leave it if minor details like that don't bother you.

Spiney Norman
22-02-2014, 16:21
You could customise the terminators with DA parts from the chapter upgrade frame pretty easily, from memory there is an assault cannon, terminator power sword and shield, storm bolter and other terminator parts like shoulder pads, heraldry plates and back banners you could use to turn it into a Deathwing squad, actually there is even a set of terminator legs on the upgrade frame.

The deathwing box contains lots of nice Deathwing parts too, there is a plasma cannon, heavy Flamer, lightning claws, thunder hammer etc with DA iconography.

There are also a few icons you can stick on your AoBR dread to make it more 'angelic' on the upgrade frame, the statues work well, and so do the censers. There are a DA dred plate and leg guards on the Ravenwing sprue, but its worth pointing out that they'd be a little tricky to convert on to an AoBR dred.

Leftenant Gashrog
22-02-2014, 16:22
There are no chapter badges, they do have the 'Ultramarines' style tactical arrow - but the Dark Angels were shown using that marking in their Index Astartes article and the last codex, they simply favour the double-ended arrow (like the Ultramarines, who prefer the single arrow but occasionally use the 'DA style' double ender).

DrWilhelm
22-02-2014, 20:19
Nope, I have the kit and to the best of my knowledge there are no chapter specific markings on any of the models. They're just generic Space Marines. The only issue would be the different tactical arrow on the shoulder pads, which others have mentioned. If this bothers you it shouldn't be too difficult to shave them away.

Fugazi
22-02-2014, 20:28
Honestly, the DV tacticals are pretty inexpensively available on eBay. Slightly better poses too. And the DA iconography is already there.

Grand Master Azrael
22-02-2014, 23:30
They are pretty generic lad you could use them for DA, but wouldn't you rather play a less back stabbing chapter like the noble space wolves hmm?
Space Wolves smell funny and are barabrians. Just remove Tactical arrows and paint Terminators cream and you have Deathwing. Oh, and the DA Chapter Upgrade frame also has a Deathwing Assault Cannon and Iconography

Beppo1234
23-02-2014, 00:21
Space Wolves smell funny and are barabrians. Just remove Tactical arrows and paint Terminators cream and you have Deathwing

Real Deathwing wear white

Sternguard777
23-02-2014, 00:21
Yeah the Black Reach Space Marines should do fine. They're all generic space marines. The Monopose snap fit marines included with the painting starter set at the time did have ultra marine iconography but those in the actual black reach squad did not. The Terminators are a little plain compared to most Dark Angel ones but with a little conversion to bling them up and they should be fine too.

For making them more Dark Angels I'd look at the Dark Angels chapter conversion kit and Deathwing command squad box. It might also help to get a hold of the Dark vengeance box's dark angels and mix them in with the Black Reach ones to disperse some dark angel bling evenly throughout.

Grand Master Azrael
23-02-2014, 01:28
Real Deathwing wear white
They look cream when painted. In the artwork and fluff though, yes, they are white

Coldblood666
23-02-2014, 03:13
I was actually comparing the BR marines with the DV ones today and the BR ones are a bit smaller, especially in the shoulder pads.

Beppo1234
23-02-2014, 13:54
you don't need to put a lot of work into the terminators... just paint 'em the right colour. If you mix them in with the DV box termies, they'll mix in just fine.

Beppo1234
23-02-2014, 13:55
They look cream when painted. In the artwork and fluff though, yes, they are white

that's only because GW forgot how to paint 'em since 2nd edition

Shadow_Steed
28-02-2014, 12:10
Thanks a lot for the answers my friends :)! Very helpful! :)

I think I'll maybe kit bash them a bit from some other DA kit, just add some iconography or something and paint them as the rest of the army!

hobojebus
01-03-2014, 15:37
Thanks a lot for the answers my friends :)! Very helpful! :)

I think I'll maybe kit bash them a bit from some other DA kit, just add some iconography or something and paint them as the rest of the army!

*SIGH* another soul lost to treachery and the dark gods.

Grand Master Azrael
02-03-2014, 00:59
*SIGH* another soul lost to treachery and the dark gods.

Why the anti-Dark Angels attitude?

BigbyWolf
02-03-2014, 11:51
Why the anti-Dark Angels attitude?

Because people are entitled to their opinions?

Moriarty
02-03-2014, 12:52
And because DA have issues, fluff-wise, which could prompt such a comment in jest.

Bit like when someone mentions Blood Axe orks (glitz).

Grand Master Azrael
03-03-2014, 05:37
Dark Angels aren't any worse than Space Wolves or Blood Angels

superdupermatt
03-03-2014, 11:21
Dark Angels flaw : a sniff of a fallen marine and they go off piste on their own agenda.

Blood Angels flaw : some succumb to the black rage/red thirst and are inducted into the death company. The force still sticks to the game plan.

Space Wolves flaw : ummmm... They have dogs.

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Kingly
03-03-2014, 15:36
Hey what have the Space Wolves done wrong?

hobojebus
03-03-2014, 16:06
Dark Angels aren't any worse than Space Wolves or Blood Angels

Actually they are they have in past put the capture of the fallen over everything else, abandoning campaign's to capture a single man costing the imperium millions of guardsmen and untold number of civilian casualties.

They've killed whole colonies that may have had contact with a fallen to preserve their secret.

Blood angels and space wolves are not at all like that, space wolves have several times sacrificed their brother's to keep civilian's alive look at Armageddon where they were told by the inquisition to help round up the survivors for sterilization and they out right refused scattering far and wide trying to keep them safe in defiance of the high lord's of terra, or honour's end where the flesh tearer's started killing civilian's and the wolves stepped in to stop them costing hundred's of lives.

Wolves put the lives of civilians ahead of their own, dark angel's put keeping their own secret's safe over anything.

Grand Master Azrael
03-03-2014, 21:00
Actually they are they have in past put the capture of the fallen over everything else, abandoning campaign's to capture a single man costing the imperium millions of guardsmen and untold number of civilian casualties.

They've killed whole colonies that may have had contact with a fallen to preserve their secret.

Blood angels and space wolves are not at all like that, space wolves have several times sacrificed their brother's to keep civilian's alive look at Armageddon where they were told by the inquisition to help round up the survivors for sterilization and they out right refused scattering far and wide trying to keep them safe in defiance of the high lord's of terra, or honour's end where the flesh tearer's started killing civilian's and the wolves stepped in to stop them costing hundred's of lives.

Wolves put the lives of civilians ahead of their own, dark angel's put keeping their own secret's safe over anything.

The Dark Angels secret if it got out could outright doom the Imperium. The Whole LEGION would be excommunicated as traitors-Although they abandon campaigns, how many more would be left unfought because the DA didn't exist? The Imperium would likely finally break under the strain of Xenos, Traitors, Mutants and Daemons and it would die.

superdupermatt
03-03-2014, 22:28
The Blood Angels secret if it got out could outright doom the Imperium. The Whole LEGION would be excommunicated as traitors-Although they abandon campaigns, how many more would be left unfought because the Blood Angels didn't exist? The Imperium would likely finally break under the strain of Xenos, Traitors, Mutants and Daemons and it would die.

Oh wait! They contain their secret and don't endanger any campaign they involve themselves in.

The Space Wolves secret if it got out could outright doom the Imperium. The Whole LEGION would be excommunicated as traitors-Although they abandon campaigns, how many more would be left unfought because the Space Wolves didn't exist? The Imperium would likely finally break under the strain of Xenos, Traitors, Mutants and Daemons and it would die.

Oh wait! They aren't foolish enough to allow half of their legion to fall like those skirt wearing greenies.

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hobojebus
03-03-2014, 23:00
The Dark Angels secret if it got out could outright doom the Imperium. The Whole LEGION would be excommunicated as traitors-Although they abandon campaigns, how many more would be left unfought because the DA didn't exist? The Imperium would likely finally break under the strain of Xenos, Traitors, Mutants and Daemons and it would die.

Wow did you hurt yourself with that streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch there?

Space marine legions get nearly wiped out frequently they just replace them, its not like the gene seed would be lost forever they have successor chapter's and gene seed in storage, look at the crimson fists for example.

Would it be a loss yes, would it doom the imperium OH HELL NO SON.

Morrslieb
03-03-2014, 23:28
Wow did you hurt yourself with that streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch there?

Space marine legions get nearly wiped out frequently they just replace them, its not like the gene seed would be lost forever they have successor chapter's and gene seed in storage, look at the crimson fists for example.

Would it be a loss yes, would it doom the imperium OH HELL NO SON.

Learn some lore before boasting, not a single Legion of the 18 named have been wiped out, plenty of chapters but not a single legion ever.



The Space Wolves secret if it got out could outright doom the Imperium. The Whole LEGION would be excommunicated as traitors-Although they abandon campaigns, how many more would be left unfought because the Space Wolves didn't exist? The Imperium would likely finally break under the strain of Xenos, Traitors, Mutants and Daemons and it would die.

Oh wait! They aren't foolish enough to allow half of their legion to fall like those skirt wearing greenies.

Puppies may act responsible towards civilians but have their fair share of troublesome behaviour towards authority, not following codex astartes, shooting Ecclesiarchy ships, going against Inquisition just to name few. Not to mention they have their own fallen ones (not in same scale as DA I'll admit).

I think what Grand Master Azrael meant that if imperium got a hint that half of the oldest of the favored sons fell to chaos in the aftermath of HH, they would get suspicious of most chapters out there (not to mention notorious ones like Space Wolves) possibly resulting the purification (more like purging) of Astartes as a whole.

superdupermatt
03-03-2014, 23:41
Oh I know the space wolves have a torrid tolerance of authority, but when the mission is at hand, nothing is going to stop them from completing once committed. They might say 'Nah thanks' when an inquisitor attempts to requisition help, but they won't agree and then disappear.

Also, Dark Angels have been known to destroy a loyalist brother chapter ship, I couldn't see the space wolves (or any other loyalist chapter barring the minotaurs) doing that, they'd just bear the grudge and spite you later.

Morrslieb
04-03-2014, 00:54
Oh I know the space wolves have a torrid tolerance of authority, but when the mission is at hand, nothing is going to stop them from completing once committed. They might say 'Nah thanks' when an inquisitor attempts to requisition help, but they won't agree and then disappear.

Also, Dark Angels have been known to destroy a loyalist brother chapter ship, I couldn't see the space wolves (or any other loyalist chapter barring the minotaurs) doing that, they'd just bear the grudge and spite you later.

I haven't seen a note that DA attacking loyalist SM ship was an openly known fact so I'd appreciate a source of this, I do remember vanishing inquisition ship however :p
It's not like wolves haven't been in a conflict with another chapter, most notably Flesh Tearers which despite being ill-famed for their savageness are loyalists.

hobojebus
04-03-2014, 02:02
Learn some lore before boasting, not a single Legion of the 18 named have been wiped out, plenty of chapters but not a single legion ever.



Puppies may act responsible towards civilians but have their fair share of troublesome behaviour towards authority, not following codex astartes, shooting Ecclesiarchy ships, going against Inquisition just to name few. Not to mention they have their own fallen ones (not in same scale as DA I'll admit).

I think what Grand Master Azrael meant that if imperium got a hint that half of the oldest of the favored sons fell to chaos in the aftermath of HH, they would get suspicious of most chapters out there (not to mention notorious ones like Space Wolves) possibly resulting the purification (more like purging) of Astartes as a whole.

I never said first founding chapter so that's just a poor straw man argument right there, chapters go rogue or they get wiped out they just produce another to keep the numbers up.

The only chapter you'd struggle to replace are the space wolves given their gene seed does not work well on none fenrisian, so if the wolves got wiped out they are gone forever, the darkangels get wiped out you can rebuild them from successor chapters easy enough.

And no wolves are not fans of the high lords or the inquisition since the Armageddon campaign but they don't attack them unprovoked, if darkangels thought there was a fallen on board a,ship they'd attack unprovoked and kill the whole crew and then scuttle the ship.

And the high lords can't take on the space wolves, they tried in the past and the whole segmentum was ready to rise up on the side of the wolves, they make allies and keep strong ties with all the world's under their protection, they constantly patrol proactively looking for threats instead of just waiting for calls for aid.

The darkangels simply don't inspire that kind of loyalty, if their secret got out they'd never have the same kind of support.

As for wiping out the space marines they can't, they've been looking for a way to do that since the heresy and failed to find a sure fire method to undo the emperor's work, that's mentioned in the spacewolf book wolfblade an assassin uses poison designed to kill astartes but instead it drives ragnar blackmane berserk and he rips the assassins throat out.

Voss
04-03-2014, 04:53
Real Deathwing wear white
Real Dark Angels (regardless of silly 'wings') wear black.


And no wolves are not fans of the high lords or the inquisition since the Armageddon campaign but they don't attack them unprovoked, if darkangels thought there was a fallen on board a,ship they'd attack unprovoked and kill the whole crew and then scuttle the ship.

Rather certain the current SW codex has the gunners at the Fang blowing an Imperial ship out of orbit. I don't quite remember why... it was either because of an Inquisitor, the beer, or the just for the lulz, given the sloppy writing in that travesty of a book.

Grand Master Azrael
04-03-2014, 06:35
I haven't seen a note that DA attacking loyalist SM ship was an openly known fact so I'd appreciate a source of this, I do remember vanishing inquisition ship however :p
It's not like wolves haven't been in a conflict with another chapter, most notably Flesh Tearers which despite being ill-famed for their savageness are loyalists.

Dark Angels destroyed an Inquisitor's SHip, not a Space Marine SHip. ANd who can blame theM? He called them heretics.

Ursus
04-03-2014, 09:01
A squad of Grey Hunters turns on their brothers and allows Huron to capture the Space wolf strive cruiser "Wolf of Fenris". http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Wolf_of_Fenris

This on top of attacking Grey Knights, clearly the wolves are traitorous scum and should be declared traitorus diabolus

Dkoz
04-03-2014, 09:16
Do your self a favor don't pick the space mutts or the bipolar angles, go with the chapter that is a true shining example of the emperor's will as they descend from the skies in their crimson armor. Go for the Blood Angles. :p

Grand Master Azrael
04-03-2014, 09:42
A squad of Grey Hunters turns on their brothers and allows Huron to capture the Space wolf strive cruiser "Wolf of Fenris". http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Wolf_of_Fenris

This on top of attacking Grey Knights, clearly the wolves are traitorous scum and should be declared traitorus diabolus

Those wolfs disgust me. I should write a letter to GW requesting that the Space Wolves suffer the same fate as the Black Templars and join the Space Marine Codex.

Morrslieb
04-03-2014, 10:52
I never said first founding chapter so that's just a poor straw man argument right there, chapters go rogue or they get wiped out they just produce another to keep the numbers up.

The only chapter you'd struggle to replace are the space wolves given their gene seed does not work well on none fenrisian, so if the wolves got wiped out they are gone forever, the darkangels get wiped out you can rebuild them from successor chapters easy enough.

You've began to conflict yourself, as you wrote before:

Space marine legions get nearly wiped out frequently they just replace them
Besides, not every fenrisian is a space marine so even puppies have plenty of candidates even if chapter gets nearly wiped out. Making marine out of candidate is timeconsuming process and chapter that has lost almost everything is most likely fused to another chapter of same gene-seed, sent into suicidical missions until they're no more or in some cases like Crimson Fists left to regain their fightning strenght (which I presume is because of their battle record).

You seem to think DA abandoning their cause when they got a clue on fallen is an everyday occurrence which is not, news about their fallen brothers are quite rare indeed. When there aren't any clues DA are as devoted to their duty as SM chapters.
Even Dark Angels have their share of devoted fans amongst the citizens of imperium, especially in their recruiting worlds.

EDIT: Never seen any notion anywhere that once wholly destroyed chapter would be rebuilt, even if it would be first found.

superdupermatt
04-03-2014, 13:04
I sadly can't remember the source, but my cousin who is a big dark angels fan told me that they destroyed a Black Templar fleet after they refused to transfer a (fallen) prisoner to the Dark Angels.

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hobojebus
04-03-2014, 14:21
You've began to conflict yourself, as you wrote before:

Yes i wrote legion and meant chapter, but clearly in context of the discussion which is 40k and not 30k its easy to tell what i actually meant.

But you want to go down that path thats fine i can justify a legion based argument just as easily, lets look at the thousand son's legion that literery went down to 1000 troops due to genetic instability, magnus the red made a deal with the chaos god tzeench and ended that problem in exchange for his eye and unbeknownst to him his soul, after being reduced to what was then a miniscule number of marines they rebuilt.

Furthermore the emperor's children had it even worse due to problems in their creation they were reduced to a mere 200 marines and could not function independently for the first part of the crusade yet they rebuilt and went on to full legion strength.

But wait there is more, we have the salamander's who had the tendency to fight to the last man and would suffer incredible loss to acheive victory, when vulcan was found there was no legion there and it was years before they had the number's to join the crusade.

So yeah i used the wrong word but my point stands all the same.

Besides, not every fenrisian is a space marine so even puppies have plenty of candidates even if chapter gets nearly wiped out.


No but every fenrisian is genetically modified to an extensive degree which is why they can survive the blistering heat and cold found on fenris without protective gear, an unmodified human will freeze to death in under a minute without an enviromental suit during the winter cycle of the planets 2 year orbit.


You seem to think DA abandoning their cause when they got a clue on fallen is an everyday occurrence which is not,

Boy you are fond of strawmanning arnt you, i never said anything of the sort.

But the fact is they will betray the forces on their own side to cover their own arses, and thats not the mark of an honourable chapter.

Morrslieb
04-03-2014, 18:54
I sadly can't remember the source, but my cousin who is a big dark angels fan told me that they destroyed a Black Templar fleet after they refused to transfer a (fallen) prisoner to the Dark Angels.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Actually both sides survived the conflict and how it's written in current DA codex suggests it was fought on land.

Yes i wrote legion and meant chapter, but clearly in context of the discussion which is 40k and not 30k its easy to tell what i actually meant.

But you want to go down that path thats fine i can justify a legion based argument just as easily, lets look at the thousand son's legion that literery went down to 1000 troops due to genetic instability, magnus the red made a deal with the chaos god tzeench and ended that problem in exchange for his eye and unbeknownst to him his soul, after being reduced to what was then a miniscule number of marines they rebuilt.

Furthermore the emperor's children had it even worse due to problems in their creation they were reduced to a mere 200 marines and could not function independently for the first part of the crusade yet they rebuilt and went on to full legion strength.

But wait there is more, we have the salamander's who had the tendency to fight to the last man and would suffer incredible loss to acheive victory, when vulcan was found there was no legion there and it was years before they had the number's to join the crusade.

So yeah i used the wrong word but my point stands all the same.
And still with all that information you could not prove I was wrong when I said that not a single named legion was wiped out as per se. Yarr Emperor's Children took heavy casualties, Thousand Sons were small to beginwith and Salamanders have their nigh suicidical tendencies even today (40k wise).


Besides, not every fenrisian is a space marine so even puppies have plenty of candidates even if chapter gets nearly wiped out.No but every fenrisian is genetically modified to an extensive degree which is why they can survive the blistering heat and cold found on fenris without protective gear, an unmodified human will freeze to death in under a minute without an enviromental suit during the winter cycle of the planets 2 year orbit.
Who ever said space wolf candidate should be an non-fenrisian? As I wrote before, there're plenty of fenrisians to search candidates for.


Boy you are fond of strawmanning arnt you, i never said anything of the sort.

But the fact is they will betray the forces on their own side to cover their own arses, and thats not the mark of an honourable chapter.

Actually they are they have in past put the capture of the fallen over everything else, abandoning campaign's to capture a single man costing the imperium millions of guardsmen and untold number of civilian casualties.

They've killed whole colonies that may have had contact with a fallen to preserve their secret.

Blood angels and space wolves are not at all like that,
If that does not suggest you think DA will betray citizens/brother marines on common occurrence I don't know what will. But I wonder why i even bother, you have certain knack for ignoring over half what I've written and sinking your fangs on a few lines here and there you think you can answer me for. Weak man, seriously.

What you said about honourable chapters, yes Dark Angels have sinned, they've tried to repent and sometimes act dishonourable to boot. All that is part of their charm. I don't see the world of 40k as kind that boyscout attitude brings you the victory.

superdupermatt
04-03-2014, 19:00
As they neared the centre of the star system, on the most densely populated planet, the Space Marines together fought their way through a horde of crazed alien religious fanatics until the Black Templars captured the Voice of the Emperor and learned the source of the aliens' strange religion. The Voice of the Emperor was a single Space Marine in ancient Mark I Thunder-pattern Power Armour dating back to the Emperor's Unification Wars on Terra in the 30th Millennium which was black with no adornment or livery of any sort. The Black Templars took the unusual Astartes prisoner and locked him away in the deepest, most secure holding cell of the Ophidium Gulf. No sooner had he done this than Master Raimer was visited by the Dark Angels' commander (who still refused to show his face) who demanded that Raimer hand over the prisoner to his custody. It was only when the Dark Angels' fleet began to ready their weapons that Raimer relented since his single strike cruiser was no match for the Dark Angels fleet and he released the prisoner to the other Space Marines.

Alright, so not destroyed, but the Black Templars fleet went AWOL once they made a warp jump after this meeting.

EDIT: Turns out the "Dark Angels" were just more Fallen. Which means the Fallen has control of Dark Angels ships also.

Morrslieb
04-03-2014, 19:17
Alright, so not destroyed, but the Black Templars fleet went AWOL once they made a warp jump after this meeting.

EDIT: Turns out the "Dark Angels" were just more Fallen. Which means the Fallen has control of Dark Angels ships also.

I don't think thats surprising, some ships are HH era or even older and probably in some events the fallen may have won against DA ships, capturing them.
The conflict is described in 6th ed. codex very vaguely, but they really engaged just briefly though. Timeline is the same (according to Lexicanum) so possibly yet another retcon GW seem to love so much of.


In 998.M41, the Black Templars would briefly come to blows with the Dark Angels, after the Templars refused to hand over a prisoner the Dark Angels suspected to be Cypher. The incident is reported to the Adeptus Terra, and Inquisitor Archibald was assigned to lead the inquiry.

Grand Master Azrael
04-03-2014, 20:29
I sadly can't remember the source, but my cousin who is a big dark angels fan told me that they destroyed a Black Templar fleet after they refused to transfer a (fallen) prisoner to the Dark Angels.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

It didn't break out into open war, but there were hostilities because those stupid Templars (Guess which Chapter doesn't have it's own codex anymore!) wouldn't give the awesome DA's Cypher-he is one of the ultimate badguys in 40k

Grand Master Azrael
04-03-2014, 20:32
Learn some lore before boasting, not a single Legion of the 18 named have been wiped out, plenty of chapters but not a single legion ever.



Puppies may act responsible towards civilians but have their fair share of troublesome behaviour towards authority, not following codex astartes, shooting Ecclesiarchy ships, going against Inquisition just to name few. Not to mention they have their own fallen ones (not in same scale as DA I'll admit).

I think what Grand Master Azrael meant that if imperium got a hint that half of the oldest of the favored sons fell to chaos in the aftermath of HH, they would get suspicious of most chapters out there (not to mention notorious ones like Space Wolves) possibly resulting the purification (more like purging) of Astartes as a whole.

I meant all the Dark Angels and their successors-they have an excellent Battlefield record, and imagine how many more campaigns would be abandoned if they were destroyed?

hobojebus
04-03-2014, 20:58
And still with all that information you could not prove I was wrong when I said that not a single named legion was wiped out as per se. Yarr Emperor's Children took heavy casualties, Thousand Sons were small to beginwith and Salamanders have their nigh suicidical tendencies even today (40k wise).


Perhaps because i wasn't even trying to, i already freely said i put legion by mistake and meant chapter, and never said it was a first founding one.


If that does not suggest you think DA will betray citizens/brother marines on common occurrence I don't know what will. But I wonder why i even bother, you have certain knack for ignoring over half what I've written and sinking your fangs on a few lines here and there you think you can answer me for. Weak man, seriously.

What it does not do is show i think its an every day occurrence as you suggested, it show's i made no such inference and you were arguing against a straw man you yourself created.

But as it's happened more than once that makes it a pattern, and so its relevant to the character of the chapter.

superdupermatt
04-03-2014, 21:16
I meant all the Dark Angels and their successors-they have an excellent Battlefield record, and imagine how many more campaigns would be abandoned if they were destroyed?

I'd say pretty much all Space Marine Chapters have an excellent battlefield record, and I'd imagine if the Dark Angels were destroyed, another chapter would be requisitioned instead.

Imagine how many campaigns ARE abandoned because of rumours of a Fallen nearby.

EDIT: And no, I am not saying ALL campaigns are abandoned, but whenever there is a rumoured Fallen presence nearby, the Dark Angels go off and abandon their current campaign.

Morrslieb
04-03-2014, 23:03
Perhaps because i wasn't even trying to, i already freely said i put legion by mistake and meant chapter, and never said it was a first founding one.
Very well, let us not dwell on that.


What it does not do is show i think its an every day occurrence as you suggested, it show's i made no such inference and you were arguing against a straw man you yourself created.

But as it's happened more than once that makes it a pattern, and so its relevant to the character of the chapter.

I'd say pretty much all Space Marine Chapters have an excellent battlefield record, and I'd imagine if the Dark Angels were destroyed, another chapter would be requisitioned instead.

Imagine how many campaigns ARE abandoned because of rumours of a Fallen nearby.

EDIT: And no, I am not saying ALL campaigns are abandoned, but whenever there is a rumoured Fallen presence nearby, the Dark Angels go off and abandon their current campaign.

I do agree Dark Angels being somewhat infamous for their unreliability in certain circles and especially amongst Space Wolves as they have history of rivalry (sort of) dating back days of Primarchs and still continuing in a form of ritualistic duels between champions. Their battle record (not counting abandoned missions here) may be almost flawless, but their soloacts and tendencies of quick decisive strikes makes them hard to work with not to mention nigh impossible to build trust to. Despite their excellent prowess and purity of gene-seed they aren't favored by lords of Terra when founding new chapters. Whether this shows lords being tolerant but rather unforgiving or just favoring more sociable chapters is beyound me.

Harwammer
05-03-2014, 11:47
EDIT: Never seen any notion anywhere that once wholly destroyed chapter would be rebuilt, even if it would be first found.I believe Blood Angels have been destroyed a couple of times (i.e. taken such catastrophic losses they no longer are able to function as a chapter or rebuild from their survivors). When this happens a bunch of 'brave' space marines from their successors get drafted in to reform the chapter, ready to be pointlessly fed to a passing space hulk.

My conjecture is these events are actually massed incidents of the black rage resulting in most of the chapter being inducted in to death company, so they all have to be sent on a suicide mission. This paragraph is of course my own crazy fan theory, that will subject me to ridicule and devalue my following paragraph...

On topic: People seem to forget 100s of years often pass before the Dark Angels get a new lead on any fallen. DAs abandoning the battlefield to pursue what could be a very dangerous heretic is the exception not the norm. 99.9% of the time Dark Angels are an especially devout space marine chapter. 0.1% of the time they appear to the outsiders as fanatically persecutory against chaos. This means, rightly or wrongly, they are held in high esteem by the vast majority of the imperium. Rarely during this 0.1% of the time, DA will be put in a position where their 'clean up' operation results in them resorting to them turning on other imperial allies.

Beppo1234
05-03-2014, 17:45
I believe Blood Angels have been destroyed a couple of times (i.e. taken such catastrophic losses they no longer are able to function as a chapter or rebuild from their survivors). When this happens a bunch of 'brave' space marines from their successors get drafted in to reform the chapter, ready to be pointlessly fed to a passing space hulk.

My conjecture is these events are actually massed incidents of the black rage resulting in most of the chapter being inducted in to death company, so they all have to be sent on a suicide mission. This paragraph is of course my own crazy fan theory, that will subject me to ridicule and devalue my following paragraph...

On topic: People seem to forget 100s of years often pass before the Dark Angels get a new lead on any fallen. DAs abandoning the battlefield to pursue what could be a very dangerous heretic is the exception not the norm. 99.9% of the time Dark Angels are an especially devout space marine chapter. 0.1% of the time they appear to the outsiders as fanatically persecutory against chaos. This means, rightly or wrongly, they are held in high esteem by the vast majority of the imperium. Rarely during this 0.1% of the time, DA will be put in a position where their 'clean up' operation results in them resorting to them turning on other imperial allies.


agreed. It's 10 full years of hunting the fallen, over 10000 years of time. Devoting 1 year out of every 1000 to hunting the fallen isn't that bad... but I bet you when the DAs are hot on a lead, they are notoriously unreliable.

Grand Master Azrael
06-03-2014, 08:56
Very well, let us not dwell on that.




I do agree Dark Angels being somewhat infamous for their unreliability in certain circles and especially amongst Space Wolves as they have history of rivalry (sort of) dating back days of Primarchs and still continuing in a form of ritualistic duels between champions. Their battle record (not counting abandoned missions here) may be almost flawless, but their soloacts and tendencies of quick decisive strikes makes them hard to work with not to mention nigh impossible to build trust to. Despite their excellent prowess and purity of gene-seed they aren't favored by lords of Terra when founding new chapters. Whether this shows lords being tolerant but rather unforgiving or just favoring more sociable chapters is beyound me.

Who doesn't ignore the High Lords? (apart from the Minotaurs)