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Foegnasher
23-02-2014, 04:06
Seriously. I cannot get these guys to do their jobs. they get mulched, they bounce, they get flanked what they dont do is wreck face, which is what i need them to do. i try to use them on the flanks to harry smaller units, no dice. i try to use their superior strenght to open monsters like a tin of sardines, no luck. Warseer help me! I love the models but cannot overcome the suckiness that is dragon ogres!!!

Kayosiv
23-02-2014, 04:32
Do you tend to use them with and additional hand weapon, halberd, or great weapon? What command are you taking for them? How big are your units of them?

Foegnasher
23-02-2014, 15:26
i"ve been running them with 3 guys, no champ, and great weapons, because init 2 might as well be always strikes last.

snottlebocket
23-02-2014, 19:48
They're monster hunters. Drogres are slightly faster, considerably stronger (with great weapons) and have an extra wound compared to other monstrous infantry, at the cost of being more expensive than most of their kind. I tend to run them in a unit of 4. Two by two, they're compact and every single one of them can strike.

Large monsters tend to have low weaponskill, high strength, high toughness but a limited amount of wounds and attacks compared to enemy units. Dragon ogres excel at charging these monsters, absorbing their punch and then beating the fug out of them with a plethora of great weapon attacks.

In general dragon ogres do well against small, high value targets and poorly on mass units where their raw power is wasted on individual members of the unit. Against infantry, trolls (and to some degree ogres) work better. Trolls are considerably cheaper. Lower cost combined with regeneration means that trolls are better suited at grinding it out against various types of infantry and cavalry units.

Drogres aren't the most cost efficient models in your army but if you do take them, be sure to send them against targets work best for them. Other monsters, chariots, small numbers of monstrous infantry, the kind of big cart type things that are showing up in armies more often. Solo creatures won't win on combat res, usually won't chew through the drogres wounds fast enough and don't like to be smacked around by str7 drogres. Even warmachines are an target worth considering if you think you can make the sprint (worst case, your opponent might panic and spend shots on your drogres instead of your more vital units). Large units will just soak up their attention and bounce them on combat res or grind them down.

Foegnasher
23-02-2014, 20:36
dualy noted. but what do you do when your fear causing Drogres go up against terror causers? this is what happen to me the other day, went after a Stank, blew my ld, and couldnt hit. then i got ground up. grrr.

Kayosiv
24-02-2014, 20:26
Keep your general or BSB within 12".

Also note that 3 is a pretty small unit. It's functional, but so is a unit of 12 chaos warriors (who cost about the same points). Functional but unable to take losses without cutting into their combat potential.

You want to send dragon ogres at things where their superior wound count matters. Chaos knights have better survivability with that awesome 1+ armor save and higher weaponskill/initiative, but they also get about 5 wounds for every 12 a dragon ogre has. That means that dragon ogres bleed combat resolution, but don't lose combat effectiveness as fast as knights. They can excel in situations that knights would be terrified, such as against things that ignore armor, have killing blow, or have a low amount of extremely high strength attacks. You can also use their speed to get into flanks of infantry who even with great weapons are unlikely to do much damage to dragon ogres on a flank because they have so few attacks and dragon ogres have so many wounds.

badguyshaveallthefun
26-02-2014, 19:47
I prefer to run my DO's in a unit of 4-6, with great weapons. As other's have pointed out, they're not that hard to kill, but they do have a lot of wounds with which to soak up that damage. I've had them do wonders against steam tanks (remember bsb close by, although with LD 8 you shouldn't be failing that many tests) stegadons, carnosaurs, cold one knights, inner circle knights,...the list goes on.

Run them 2-3 wide and two deep to limit return attacks back, that way hopefully they'll still be alive to strike back. The key here is just to smartly pick your targets. I typically field 3-4 units of warhounds as cheap drops, that way I can [hopefully] see where my opponent is going and thus I can pick a good matchup for the dragon ogres at deployment.

Use them to kill knights, use them to kill monsters, use them on the flanks and you should be fine. Also don't base their performance off of one or two games, especially since it seems like all you had was some bad luck. They are amazing models, I'd stick with them until you can find a way to use them that works for you.

geldedgoat
26-02-2014, 22:41
To add to Foegnasher's question: when would you use drogres and not regular chaos ogres, and vice versa? 6 unmarked ogres is roughly equal in cost to 4 drogres, but the ogres get more wounds, more attacks (at 1 lower strength), and can take a banner and musician... and marks. Yes, they're 1 movement slower and have 1 less WS, but is that enough to offer the two units different roles?

shakedown47
28-02-2014, 15:58
I use a unit of 6 dragon ogres with great weapons and a shartak and have had a lot of success with them. That's 418 points for 24 wounds with the exact same defensive profile as a chaos warrior against WS 4 and lower. That also happens to be the same cost as 24 unmarked great weapon warriors with a unit champ. So, for the same points, you get vastly improved movement (including higher average pursuits), higher strength, and immunity to stomps and Fear. The downsides are not being steadfast against most infantry units, not hitting as often vs. half the units in the game, less static CR and less likelihood of breaking ranked infantry on the charge.

The biggest learning curve to fielding dragon ogres is figuring out what they can and cannot fight. They can fight monsters all day long, grind ogres and saurus like it's their job, and undead units of 30 wounds or less rarely last more than a single round of combat against them. They are the bane of most cavalry and, with their multiple high-S attacks, they're not terrible at picking off characters in units. Lastly, they tend to instill much more fear in your opponent than an equally-sized unit of chaos warriors would, so use that to your advantage.

What they can't fight is elite infantry or perma-fast buses, for fear of being flanked in subsequent rounds, and they're highly vulnerable to test-or-die spells. Also, at Ld 8, they need a babysitter of some kind, either the general or the BSB. You wouldn't leave your Ld 8 chaos warriors alone, you can't leave these guys alone either. They don't like to panic, and they don't like to lose combat, so pick your battlefield placement carefully.

Bronhoms
26-03-2014, 15:38
One thing is sure. Don't smack them against a block of which elves...

Ero-Senin
27-03-2014, 09:35
Seriously. I cannot get these guys to do their jobs. they get mulched, they bounce, they get flanked what they dont do is wreck face, which is what i need them to do. i try to use them on the flanks to harry smaller units, no dice. i try to use their superior strenght to open monsters like a tin of sardines, no luck. Warseer help me! I love the models but cannot overcome the suckiness that is dragon ogres!!!

Couldn't agree more. Great models, suck on the table. My solution = replace with nurgle halberd warriors. (Not very helpful i know but it is what I ended up doing)

Josfer
31-03-2014, 15:43
Just some random information and thoughts about the guys:


To add to Foegnasher's question: when would you use drogres and not regular chaos ogres, and vice versa? 6 unmarked ogres is roughly equal in cost to 4 drogres, but the ogres get more wounds, more attacks (at 1 lower strength), and can take a banner and musician... and marks. Yes, they're 1 movement slower and have 1 less WS, but is that enough to offer the two units different roles?
The ogres don't have swiftstride! So in turn two you're not only 2 inches further into the field, but the charge has another ~3" more range. If you were 24" away at the beginning, it's nearly impossible to NOT make it on turn 2. 26"? BIG chance to make it. Ogres have a ~75% to make 24" (lower chance than DOgres on 26") and only 42% to make 26". DOgres have 52% chance to get 30"...that's a straight forward charge to a warmachine at the table edge. Or if the enemy got turn 1, you can probably make a 15" charge. And one last thing: A bolt thrower will NEVER pierce ranks against DOgres (if not shooting in the flank on an already wounded DOgre) and a cannon has a 50% chance to get stuck.


My solution = replace with nurgle halberd warriors
3 nurgle halberd warriors are exactly 1 DOgre with AHWs points wise. In comparison warriors have -3M, +1WS, -1W, +3I, +2A and trade MoN and ranks for Fear, Stomp, Storm Rage, Swiftstride, 4W until you lose a model and a smaller frontage (basically you get 4 DOgres in the front row but only 6 halberdiers or against chariots/monsters 3 DOs vs 4 NHWs). BUT on a second rank they lose the +2A, so single file DOgres are quite a bad choice. Too bad they're really expensive so fielding 18 isn't an option (would wreck face of any horde). Anyways, fielding 6 is a massive boost in effectiveness as you only lose 3 stomps, but get 9 additional support attacks. Compare 21(+3) S5 attacks and 6*4W(=24) to 18 nurgle halberdiers with 18 S5 attacks and 18*1W. And against monsters and chariots (or single file cav in the flank) only 4*2 halberdiers can attack, so only 12 S5 attacks.

Fielding 4 wide on 50mm bases is a good choice too if you want to engage r&f guys and not monsters, because everyone can attack if you can max out models (quite likely with M7 Swiftstride). 8 are 480/504/544 pts, so A LOT, but deal 24/28/24 S5/S5/S7 attacks plus 4 S5 stomps and have 32 wounds so won't go away easily. Or play 6 with Scyla. Scyla gives them Ld10 (so frenzy shouldn't be a big problem) + MR3 and they give look out sir to Scyla. Sadly they have different base sizes, but against R&F as said everyone can attack.

And now for the downside (against r&f): Trolls are just so much better. Being Core with Throgg (who kindly helps with stupid), having the puke and regeneration...if your local meta isn't full of flaming attacks, you really should consider those. :/

@OP: Always calculate your chances. 3 GW DOgres only have 9 attacks (+3 stomps with lower S). You hit the monster only two thirds of the time (or less), wound it only two thirds of the time and thus shouldn't go above 4 wounds in one round on average (or 5 wounds if only T5...but lots of monsters with T5 have W6 or WS4+, so you don't kill either). Against smaller enemies (with better WS) you probably only hit half the time and thus won't go over 4 wounds too. Doubling the DOgre count will highly improve their chance to kill in one turn or make up for static combat res through ranks.