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Xerkics
23-02-2014, 21:19
With nice new runes for Bsb standards there is a question i been meaning to ask : how do you keep BSB alive in combat? Fighting against something like multiple White Lions or other high str units targeting the bsb his armour wont save him even with shield. What do people suggest to keep bsb with a runed banner alive?

Saldiven
23-02-2014, 21:58
With nice new runes for Bsb standards there is a question i been meaning to ask : how do you keep BSB alive in combat? Fighting against something like multiple White Lions or other high str units targeting the bsb his armour wont save him even with shield. What do people suggest to keep bsb with a runed banner alive?

The BSB can get a 3+ armor save with the addition of a shield, but that's as good as his armor save can get without armor runes.

If you insist on taking a Runic Standard and want additional protection for the BSB, the only option is the Master Rune of Grungni (though you can add other non-master runes to taste). That grants the BSB a 4++, and also grants all friendly units within 6" a 5++ against shooting.

Xerkics
23-02-2014, 22:36
And 3+ save would be insufficient against str6 attacks from ogres or white lions , I meant more in terms of tactics of what unit to put him etc How people usually keep their bsb alive? Other than not taking a runed banner, more of Tactics question rather than what banner to give him as i had a 3x slowness banner in mind for giving high elves ASL or battle rrune x3 extra ranks on hammerers.

Saldiven
24-02-2014, 00:29
If you put him in any unit (at all) that is designed to get into combat, there's really not anything you can do to protect him beyond giving him as much armor as you can. If you put him in a horde on one corner, maybe you can avoid getting him in combat by only engaging enemy units that have a small enough frontage to keep him out of combat, but that's asking a lot. You can't even depend on declining challenges with the hope of having the BSB sent to the back rank if your opponent hopes to kill the BSB. I guess in some cases, issuing a challenge with the BSB might be a good idea, but there's no guarantee it'll be accepted.

bigbiggles
24-02-2014, 01:24
Can always keep him in a small unit of shield dwarfs if the banner is not needed in a fighting unit

Gratan
24-02-2014, 01:47
I was thinking of a BSB with Groth One-Eye for the 12" Stubborn Bubble. Put in a 10-dwarf unit of Warriors and position it behind your Anvil blocks. It wont see much combat, and if it does will most likely be as a flank charger at some point. Mainly its there for the Stubborn Bubble.

russellmoo
24-02-2014, 02:32
With the runic combo you are taking you should probably put him in a small unit of hammerers. They can then either go single file, with the champion in the front of the unit, or you can turn them sideways to expose a flank, and keep your bsb on the end away from the combat.

In fact, you could also do this with ironbreakers or longbeards as long as you are willing to pay the points to give them the rune of stoicism on their banner.

Xerkics
24-02-2014, 11:57
I'm starting to think paying 125 points might not be worth to give a unit of high elves asl as it wouldn't stack

ARabidNun
24-02-2014, 14:22
I play VC alot and so I typically bunker my hero in a small unit behind my solid line to avoid combat and use the banner bubble. If you are looking to use runes that don't bubble on a unit then your alternatives are a horde (as mentioned) or bunkering several other heros in the unit to push the BSB into the second rank. A lord on shieldbearers takes two spots, a musicien and standard take two permanent spots and a champion takes one for a turn or two. Beware thoght that your opponent will label that unit a hazar and either tarpit it or throw everything at it.

InstantKarma
24-02-2014, 15:03
I'm wondering if just using the BsB for the LD re-roll is enough? With units that either have a natural Stubborn (Hammerers), MR Groth One-Eye (which the Hammerers can carry) and then Stocism, it seems that you could instead go for a beefy/tough BSB and stick him in a fighty unit.

Mad'Larkin
24-02-2014, 16:17
His standard still takes effect in the second rank doesn't it? You could go 5 wide with a dwarflord and shield bearers and a runesmith. That with a full command forces the BSB into the second rank until the runesmith dies.

russellmoo
24-02-2014, 16:34
You are right but that seems like an awful lot of points in characters just to keep a bsb safe. Still, if you are taking those things anyway it's not such a bad idea.

InstantKarma
24-02-2014, 16:48
You are right but that seems like an awful lot of points in characters just to keep a bsb safe. Still, if you are taking those things anyway it's not such a bad idea.

Until that Lv 4 Death/Life mage goes for broke 6 dicing for an IF Purple Sun/Dwellers.

I know we can't design a whole army around 1 spell but it would seem to me that the Deathstar being implicated is sort of asking to be made into a target.

Xerkics
24-02-2014, 18:11
Seems like taking an actual magical banner on a bsb is self defeating as that runed banner would be wasted on a unit that doesn't fight

ARabidNun
25-02-2014, 07:49
Seems like taking an actual magical banner on a bsb is self defeating as that runed banner would be wasted on a unit that doesn't fight

That depends on if the banner provides a bubble effect such as stubborn, in which case you can hide it away and still use the rerolls (which will be good against panic tests, fear/terror and other command tests. If the banner offers an effect only for that unit carrying it, then yes, you need to keep him alive. Any way with runes to beef up his wounds? Oh, you did 2 wounds, well that would kill em, but wait he has 4 in total, better luck next round. :)

Zinch
25-02-2014, 08:23
That depends on if the banner provides a bubble effect such as stubborn, in which case you can hide it away and still use the rerolls (which will be good against panic tests, fear/terror and other command tests. If the banner offers an effect only for that unit carrying it, then yes, you need to keep him alive. Any way with runes to beef up his wounds? Oh, you did 2 wounds, well that would kill em, but wait he has 4 in total, better luck next round. :)

If you carry a runic standard, you can't have any other runic or magical item. Luckly, there is a rune for standards that give the BSB a 4++. I think that (besides his 3+ AS and high WS and T) is enough against almost any unit (at least for 1-2 turns).

ARabidNun
25-02-2014, 14:28
Oh, thats right. That was beardy of me. :) so my reasoing would be if you use a bubble, get him hiding to deny your opponent, otherwise find a way to place em in the second row.

InstantKarma
25-02-2014, 17:01
I can see the Stubborn Bubble Banner (I like the aliteration in that phrase) being highly useful for a gunline, in which case having the BSB in a small-ish unit of say, LBs/Wars/IBs etc. and having him in the middle of the castle to both deny your opponent easy access, and maximize the banner's effects is a great use.

Another thing to always remember is for our really expensive Runic Banners, Hammerers could always pick one up to help cover that same duty.

AUN'SHI
26-02-2014, 15:00
give him the rune of +1t +1w and a double handed weapon put him in a unit of dwarf warriors with hand weapons and shields. if your worried about white lions you have t6 and 3w call out a challange if you want and kill what ever is going to fight him.

a white lion champoin has 2 attacks, 1 will hit 50/50, 1 will damage. if you have hatred that will be a bonus if not you get 3 attacks 3's to hit 2 will hit 2+ to kill 2 damages you already scored 2 points to his maybe 1.

Your dwarf warriors will have a 5+ parry so you wont loose to many white lions dont get re-roll due to asf and asl remember that.

hope this helps

Bermuda
10-03-2014, 08:40
Will the rune of battle work like the rune of slowness? Can I have 1 on the unit and 2 on the bsb and gain the fight in extra rank special rule? If so what points do I pay for it?

Ramius4
10-03-2014, 13:44
Can I use the rune of battle like the rune of slowness? Have one on the unit and 2 on the bsb and gain the fight in extra rank special rule? If so what points do I pay for it?

No. Because unlike Slowness, the Rune of Battle needs to be on a single standard to have the effect of having 3 of them.

* How many places are you going to post the same question?