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moonlapse
26-02-2014, 19:58
You can only inflict as many wounds on a model as its number of wounds, so if a Dwarf Lord with the D6 wounds weapon rune causes 3 unsaved wounds to a unit of Ogres, and rolls e.g. a 5, 4, 2, for the multiple wounds rolls, how does that work?

1) He caused 3 wounds initially so he can't kill more than 3 Ogres. The total rolled is 11 but he can therefore only cause 9 wounds.
2) The first roll of 5 kills an ogre and the remaining 2 wounds are lost. The second roll of 4 kills an ogre and the remaining 1 wound is lost. The third roll causes 2 wounds to an ogre. Therefore he has caused a total of 8 wounds.
3) He causes 11 wounds to the unit because that's what he rolled, so he kills 3 ogres and wounds another ogre twice.

Now how about if the roll was 2, 6, 3...
The first '2' leaves an ogre with one wound remaining. Does this mean the '6' finishes off his last wound and then the surplus 5 wounds on that are wasted? Also, does this mean you must roll for the multiple wounds one dice at a time? Otherwise you won't know what order to apply the wounds in.

How about a Flame Cannon template wounding 3 ogres (D3 wounds each), rolling a 2, 6, and 4... The 6 causes 3 wounds which kills a whole ogre, but are you then left with 2 wounded ogres (one with 1 wound left and one with 2 wounds left) or do the wounds combine to to kill off another whole ogre. Does this change if the Champion is wounded?

dementian
26-02-2014, 20:22
You can only inflict as many wounds on a model as its number of wounds, so if a Dwarf Lord with the D6 wounds weapon rune causes 3 unsaved wounds to a unit of Ogres, and rolls e.g. a 5, 4, 2, for the multiple wounds rolls, how does that work?

1) He caused 3 wounds initially so he can't kill more than 3 Ogres. The total rolled is 11 but he can therefore only cause 9 wounds.
2) The first roll of 5 kills an ogre and the remaining 2 wounds are lost. The second roll of 4 kills an ogre and the remaining 1 wound is lost. The third roll causes 2 wounds to an ogre. Therefore he has caused a total of 8 wounds.
3) He causes 11 wounds to the unit because that's what he rolled, so he kills 3 ogres and wounds another ogre twice.

Now how about if the roll was 2, 6, 3...
The first '2' leaves an ogre with one wound remaining. Does this mean the '6' finishes off his last wound and then the surplus 5 wounds on that are wasted? Also, does this mean you must roll for the multiple wounds one dice at a time? Otherwise you won't know what order to apply the wounds in.

How about a Flame Cannon template wounding 3 ogres (D3 wounds each), rolling a 2, 6, and 4... The 6 causes 3 wounds which kills a whole ogre, but are you then left with 2 wounded ogres (one with 1 wound left and one with 2 wounds left) or do the wounds combine to to kill off another whole ogre. Does this change if the Champion is wounded?

Number 2 is correct.

Like you mentioned you can only do the number of wounds that are on the profile. So attacking Ogres with 3 wounds means that each multiple wounds roll can at most do 3 wounds.

The monstrous infantry do have a wounds pool so for the second scenario.
The first '2' does not leave an ogre with one wound remaining. It means that the unit currently has 2 wounds on it. When you roll a 6 for the next one this is capped at 3 for the reasons above. Meaning the unit has now taken 5 wounds. Which is enough to remove 1 model and have 2 wounds on the unit. There is no order to apply the wounds. If you rolled 2 6 3 you would do a total of 8 wounds to the unit, which is enough to remove 2 full ogres and leave the unit with 2 wounds still on it.

For the final example you rolled up a total of 6 wounds meaning it is enough to remove 2 ogres worth of wounds. This result would change if the Champion was wounded. To elaborate if you rolled up 2, 6, on the unit and a 4 on the champion it would be 4 wounds worth to the unit and 2 for the champion. So the 4 wounds means that 1 ogre is removed and 1 wound remains on the unit and 2 wounds are taken off the champion leaving him with 1 wound remaining.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
26-02-2014, 22:33
What about Heroic Killing Blow?

If a Bretonnian HKB lord is fighting a unit of monstrous cav with three models. One model has already sustained two wounds. The HKB general inflicts a single unsaved wound and a single HKB wound. How many models are removed? Does the HKB simple count as 3 wounds? (number of wounds on the profile) Or does it remove a model (the one with a single wound left), and then the other wound is added.

My Bretonnian friend and I combed through the rulebook and couldn't actually find a passage that specifically dealt with this, save in the section that deals with combat res. There seemed to be nothing saying that I couldn't remove the model with a single wound left, then allocate the remaining wound against the unit. Or, if there was no non-HKB wound, I could just remove the model with a single wound remaining without piling additional wounds to the unit.

Lord Cedric
26-02-2014, 23:13
Rules say that unless you are directing attacks against specific models, the model's controlling player gets to allocate the wounds with the rule that whole models must be removed if possible first. So, if your Lord gets his attacks in one phase and has a HKB and an unsaved regular one, I believe the controlling players gets to pick which models take which wounds - but must start with any model that already has sustained wounds first. In this case, your opponent could use the HKB against his one-wound left ogre and then place the remaining wound on another model.

- Lord Cedric

Mr_Rose
26-02-2014, 23:35
Rules say that unless you are directing attacks against specific models, the model's controlling player gets to allocate the wounds with the rule that whole models must be removed if possible first. So, if your Lord gets his attacks in one phase and has a HKB and an unsaved regular one, I believe the controlling players gets to pick which models take which wounds - but must start with any model that already has sustained wounds first. In this case, your opponent could use the HKB against his one-wound left ogre and then place the remaining wound on another model.

This is wrong, for the simple reason that there is no "wounded model" – the unit has two floating wounds and a model will be subtracted from the unit when it suffers a third.

Two hits have been inflicted, one which "slays [a model] outright" and one which inflicts a standard wound on the unit: there is no actual conflict here; simply remove one model then apply the wound as normal, which will probably cause the loss of another model.
It's easiest, I find, to think of killing blows as having the "Multiple Wounds (exactly enough)" rule, which usually results in the correct answer.

Ramius4
26-02-2014, 23:53
This is wrong, for the simple reason that there is no "wounded model" – the unit has two floating wounds and a model will be subtracted from the unit when it suffers a third.

Two hits have been inflicted, one which "slays [a model] outright" and one which inflicts a standard wound on the unit: there is no actual conflict here; simply remove one model then apply the wound as normal, which will probably cause the loss of another model.
It's easiest, I find, to think of killing blows as having the "Multiple Wounds (exactly enough)" rule, which usually results in the correct answer.

This. Words for the word god.

Lord Cedric
27-02-2014, 00:24
This is wrong, for the simple reason that there is no "wounded model" – the unit has two floating wounds and a model will be subtracted from the unit when it suffers a third.

Two hits have been inflicted, one which "slays [a model] outright" and one which inflicts a standard wound on the unit: there is no actual conflict here; simply remove one model then apply the wound as normal, which will probably cause the loss of another model.
It's easiest, I find, to think of killing blows as having the "Multiple Wounds (exactly enough)" rule, which usually results in the correct answer.

I can see it being played this way and that is a good way of putting it. Thanks for the correction. If the situation comes up in my group, I'll confer this information.

- Lord Cedric

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
27-02-2014, 00:25
This is wrong, for the simple reason that there is no "wounded model" – the unit has two floating wounds and a model will be subtracted from the unit when it suffers a third.

Two hits have been inflicted, one which "slays [a model] outright" and one which inflicts a standard wound on the unit: there is no actual conflict here; simply remove one model then apply the wound as normal, which will probably cause the loss of another model.
It's easiest, I find, to think of killing blows as having the "Multiple Wounds (exactly enough)" rule, which usually results in the correct answer.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but can you point to the language in the rulebook that supports this? As I said we combed through the book and couldn't figure it out.

dementian
27-02-2014, 02:59
Killing Blow from BRB p 72.


If a model with the Killing Blow special rule rolls a 6 to wound in close combat, he automatically slays his opponent - regardless of the number of wounds on the victim's profile.

Heroic Killing Blow p72

[Heroic Killing Blow] functions exactly like a normal Killing Blow, except it works on any creature...except for swarms

Models with more than one wound p 45

Should such a unit suffer wounds, you must remove as many whole models as possible. You are not allowed to spread the wounds throughout the unit to avoid suffering casualties, tempting though it may be to do so.

In this situation, divide the number of wounds caused by the Wounds characteristic of the models in the target unit, removing this number of models from the rear-most rank. Any leftover wounds that were not enough to remove a model are carried over and will be added to the wounds inflicted by any subsequent attacks.

Further on p.45 you can find information and examples for dealing with multi-wound casualties and multi-wound weapons vs multi-wound models.

Cheers

bigbiggles
27-02-2014, 06:22
This is the best and fastest way to play it. Its just so hard to argue when hitting opponents monstrous cav.

T10
27-02-2014, 08:41
A good rule of thumb is that any single hit cannot kill more than one model, and any single hit will not cause more wounds than the model has on its profile.

-T10