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Lamont Cranston
26-02-2014, 23:31
Does anyone else have this happen where your going to start a new army, but your favorite models from that army are usually something that you won't take? I was looking at either TK or Beastmen, but the Ushabti with great bows are my favorite models from the TK range and I can't see myself taking them in a list. For Beastmen is the Centigors. I know this is really subjective, but are these units as bad as everyone says, because I've never seen people use them.

tezdal
26-02-2014, 23:42
Eh, I buy whatever looks cool, fits my fluff and tailor my list accordingly. Then again I play for fun, fluff and pursuit of cool models, not for comp.

Kakapo42
26-02-2014, 23:43
Nope. I work the other way around and always always take my favourite models in an army, effectiveness in-game be damned.

Voss
26-02-2014, 23:47
Centigors didn't strike me as particularly bad, but they're in an army where everything taken needs to be the best it can or the army really struggles.

But yeah, there is a lot of stuff I like conceptually or aesthetically, but the rules execution is absolutely terrible. Or other reasons, actually- I was really interested in the new DE army book until I realized that the only kind of army I'd actually want to play out of it was excessive MSU spam.

Ultimate Life Form
26-02-2014, 23:58
Or other reasons, actually- I was really interested in the new DE army book until I realized that the only kind of army I'd actually want to play out of it was excessive MSU spam.

Yeah, I have a similar problem. I hate it when one half of the army appeals to me and the other absolutely doesn't. And this happens quite frequently. Then again, it saves me the cost of a lot of armies, so it's a win-win situation I guess.

What I do is, I use any and all models I like regardless of their effectiveness, and when I lose, I blame it on them. :p

SpanielBear
27-02-2014, 05:32
I think this is linked to the well documented "new model" syndrome. Everyone knows that a model newly bought or newly painted will always perform... Poorly, shall we say. As cool looking models get bought most frequently, this leads to their sub-par performance on general.

Yes I studied logic at degree level. Does it show?

Kayosiv
27-02-2014, 07:20
Poor poor carnosaur.

Wesser
27-02-2014, 07:30
Aye it's a Karma thing mate

My Vampires almst always have Blood Knights cuz... I like them

bigbiggles
27-02-2014, 07:30
1st time I played my newly painted high liche priest, he miscast desert wind on 2 dice and got sucked into the warp.

He does not do that as often anymore though

Borgomos
27-02-2014, 07:39
Ikit Claw - Wonderful model, terribly overpriced, underperforming rules.
Ogre Hunter - My friend converted one from the Stonehorn bits, loves the model, but they are by far the worst hero you can spend points on in the book
Triarch Pretorians - Ugh, i don't even want to talk about these guys.

Sexiest_hero
27-02-2014, 08:55
Meh, you just have to handle your favorite models with kid gloves. I used a great Gobbo shaman on an Arachnaroc spider. I just thought of it as a Spider I could take as a lord choice that could cast spells till it lost 3 wounds. I kit my Gobbo shaman to survive one round of combat, then went for it. It worked very well. I use bow-shapti as a casket/catapult guard, they can shoot and beat up most wm hunters and have worked well in that position. Ghorros warhoof makes centagors worthwhile. Mathhammer says a min unit and him will most likely kill a hellpit abomination to death in one turn of combat. Then Ghorros will hump it because that's what he does to everything.

SteveW
27-02-2014, 13:37
Does anyone else have this happen where your going to start a new army, but your favorite models from that army are usually something that you won't take? I was looking at either TK or Beastmen, but the Ushabti with great bows are my favorite models from the TK range and I can't see myself taking them in a list. For Beastmen is the Centigors. I know this is really subjective, but are these units as bad as everyone says, because I've never seen people use them.

6 Ushabti with great bows can do work on just about anything they shoot at. Especially those Daemon Princesses everyone runs in every battle. I either run them or a necro colossus with great bow in every game with my TK's and they get most of my best kills.

Romark
27-02-2014, 14:05
Spare a thought for the poor Black Ark Fleetmaster... Such a beautiful model, and what have they done with the rules.

Mine has been, amateurishly, converted into a Master BSB.

Aside from that i try to take stuff i like, but my group is very Powergamey so i tend to have to take Executioners over Black Guard, just to compete. Though, every so often i break out the fluff list and lose horribly, but have a great time!

cyberspite
01-03-2014, 20:42
Yeh, my Wood Elves. :rolleyes:

McFace
01-03-2014, 22:52
Tomb Kings suffer the most from this syndrome I think.

Malagor
01-03-2014, 23:25
Ooh my poor Ghorgon :(
Other then that I'm usually lucky. The models I like tend to be useful.

Karak Norn Clansman
01-03-2014, 23:33
I don't play for winning. I take what I like the looks and background for, and results be damned. Sometimes, when say it doesn't matter what weapon I choose according to favouritism, then I may take a look at what works good, but rarely otherwise.

That's also one of the reasons why I've played with some of the most acknowledged handicapped lists in Swedish WHFB since 6th edition onwards. :D

ewar
02-03-2014, 18:02
Tomb Kings suffer the most from this syndrome I think.

Really? I think most TK players would agree that their best models are some of the best in game too. Thinking specifically of sphinxes of both kinds, the casket and (IMO) the Necroknights.

cyberspite
02-03-2014, 19:33
Well, I guess it's a matter of opinion. I like the casket but (IMO) the sphinxes and necroknights just look weird, nothing wrong with them technically but conceptually not to my taste. I don't play TK myself, but I've been tempted a few times and if I did I would go heavy on ushabti.

Chalkfour
02-03-2014, 20:52
Swordmasters before 7th edition. I never expected much out of them but they were always in my army list. I loved the fluff and I'm always more 'style over function'. These days they're pretty awesome, even more so now with BotWD, where the unit champion can challenge and eliminate enemy heroes. It's still kind of funny to watch them die from rocks hurled by night runners, of all things.

Lord Dan
02-03-2014, 23:13
I decided not to play Lizardmen over how absurdly poor the Troglodon is in-game.

meowser
02-03-2014, 23:30
My personal list:
- Plague Censer Bearers (they were SO good at the end of 7th when new book was out...)
- Rat Ogres
- Sisters of Slaugher
- Scourgerunner Chariot* I actually find these quiet effective and worth 2 RBTs
- Manticore
- Vampire Coven Thrones

Colonel Mayhem
03-03-2014, 07:50
So far my freshly painted tiranoc chariot unit consisting of 3 of those have managed 5 impact hits and been charged themselves. Newly-painted model syndrome indeed. They look awesome though.

NemoSD
03-03-2014, 08:45
I love my High Elves as a concept and I love the way the army looks as a whole. I hate Phoenix, both flame and frost, I hate the sky chariot, but I love Sea Guard, PG, and SM. WL I am meh about, and I love my Cavalry, Dragons and Griffons. I have yet to see my Dragon survive more then a turn against my regular opponents (Empire, Dwarf and Chaos.) The only other regulars I have are a Bret player who is to small points wise for me to use the Dragon.

I just started Ogres because they looked awesome, in my eyes, and there is not a unit in there that I do not like, and the only reason I wont field some of them is simply that I can not afford them right now.

Daniel36
03-03-2014, 11:05
Why would you not take a model that is cool? It's just a game, it's fun to take sub-optimal units.

SpanielBear
03-03-2014, 13:05
Why would you not take a model that is cool? It's just a game, it's fun to take sub-optimal units.

I play Wood Elves. I know what you mean!

That said, in all fairness for me it tends to be a bit all or nothing. Either none of my archers can hit a target, my wild riders rubber lance and the dryads fail their leadership thanks to the enemy standing in a row, or my army remembers it is a representation of the darkness at the heart of the wild wood and behaves appropriately. As always, it is the extreme moments in either scenario that get remembered.

AM1640
03-03-2014, 16:07
Statisically, the more games you play the "better" you will do. You will tend to forget the first few losses you suffered witht he new unit and you will become better at using it and so you will likely win more/ it will do better.
Some units are more of a challenge. I was hoping that slayers would get some new rules, drop in points cost in order to become a viable option for taking in units. But alas no. That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't take them, it will just be more of a challenge to use them wisely.
You also have to bear in mind that when you bring new unit X to a game with your friends, they will all be somewhat impressed with it scared of it and focus more on it. For example, in your new dwarf army you bring a new unit of dwarf warriors and a new gyrobomber. Guess what your opponent is going to go after first with everything they have? In this edition GW has tried to work large monsters into every army book. These new monsters are large targets for your opponent to focus on. You have spent more time building and painting it and you want it to do well, but your opponent's anti-monster unit/magic/war machine kills it first turn and you wonder why new units suck so bad. Just keep trying. Perhaps in 9th edition there will be some new rules or units that change the way the game is played and some of what are new units now will not have all the attention and they will seem better.

McFace
03-03-2014, 16:16
Really? I think most TK players would agree that their best models are some of the best in game too. Thinking specifically of sphinxes of both kinds, the casket and (IMO) the Necroknights.

You are right! Necro Knights and Sep Stalkers are great models as well as the casket. I'm not a huge fan of the Necrosphinx model. But that's just me.

I was thinking more of Ushabti.

NemoSD
03-03-2014, 16:26
Or just a sublte change to cannons to move away from the Rock Paper Scissors Cannon, where cannon beats rock, paper, and scissors, would make some of the centerpiece models more usable.

N1AK
05-03-2014, 15:37
Does anyone else have this happen where your going to start a new army, but your favorite models from that army are usually something that you won't take? I was looking at either TK or Beastmen, but the Ushabti with great bows are my favorite models from the TK range and I can't see myself taking them in a list. For Beastmen is the Centigors. I know this is really subjective, but are these units as bad as everyone says, because I've never seen people use them.

Slayers are my favourite Dwarf unit and I always ran 30+ in my armies under the old book. The points would be better spent on more Hammerers but the handicap isn't that huge.

N1AK
05-03-2014, 15:46
Or just a sublte change to cannons to move away from the Rock Paper Scissors Cannon, where cannon beats rock, paper, and scissors, would make some of the centerpiece models more usable.

Can we stop bringing Cannons into every debate as though they're the only issue with balance in Warhammer. First your rock, paper, scissors analogy is nonsense and secondly just look at the units people have spoken about so far, how many of those are not being fielded because of cannons? Sisters of Slaughter, Plague Censor bearers perhaps?

Cannons could not exist and you still wouldn't see Slaughterbrutes, and dozens of other monsters in competitive lists. :rolleyes:

fimiromanic
05-03-2014, 16:18
I find if I like the army and the fluff and maybe 30% of the models I'll find myself converting the rest of the army to fit with the models I like... Its a lot of work and time but you'll never have a model in your army you don't like.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk

NemoSD
05-03-2014, 16:43
Can we stop bringing Cannons into every debate as though they're the only issue with balance in Warhammer. First your rock, paper, scissors analogy is nonsense and secondly just look at the units people have spoken about so far, how many of those are not being fielded because of cannons? Sisters of Slaughter, Plague Censor bearers perhaps?

Cannons could not exist and you still wouldn't see Slaughterbrutes, and dozens of other monsters in competitive lists. :rolleyes:

I was talking about bringing in my Dragons and Griffons. This is something cannons make pointless. Nothing like losing your general and 700 points by turn 2, or 1 if the other side is lucky.