PDA

View Full Version : Best Daemons of Chaos themed collection



desel
01-03-2014, 23:50
Hi everyone, i will start to play warhammer fantasy, with Daemons of chaos to be more specific.

Then, i saw that they have, besides the battalion, four themed collections. Which one is the best to start? or is it better to buy an starter army directly?

Ultimate Life Form
01-03-2014, 23:59
Khorne can dish out damage like mad while Nurgle sucks it up like a sponge. Slaanesh and Tzeentch tend to be rather frail and thus need careful handling and precise strikes. It really comes down to your preferred playstyle. The Batallion offers a good mix of offense and defense though.

decker_cky
02-03-2014, 03:58
The themed collections don't save you any money, while the battalion does. If you're just looking to start out daemons and aren't particularly attached to a single god, battalions are the way to go.

tezdal
02-03-2014, 04:28
The themed collections don't save you any money, while the battalion does. If you're just looking to start out daemons and aren't particularly attached to a single god, battalions are the way to go.

This, unless your going monogod I suppose.

desel
02-03-2014, 07:36
Thanks for all your replies.

The reason i asked is because i've read that Nurgle-centric armies are the way to go right now, slaanesh being second. While Tzeentch and Khorne are not very cost-efficent. However that was just something i saw in some websites. Is it really like that or just plain *********?

Kallstrom
02-03-2014, 11:03
Remember that Daemons have a special in-built army setback/advantage when it comes to which Chaos God you are leaning the most towards. Your General can only use his IP on units with the same alignment (so a Keeper of Secrets can only ever give his Leadership to other Slaanesh units).
The same goes with the BSB. He can only give the Hold Your Ground-rule to other Daemons that share his faith. This is really important now that Daemons have a special Daemonic Instability table which they roll on when they lose combat. If you happen to roll a double 6, your unit simply vanish. So getting to re roll those results are crucial, especially for your big rank and file block (sometimes that is all your Core, which is a 1/4 of your army at worst) unless you play MSU or something. Your general ,which most of the times are you highest level magician as well, can also just disappear if you get an unlucky roll which really cripples your army.

As you said, the power level looks something like this: Nurgle>Slaanesh>Khorne/Tzeentch.
Nurgle are just awesome all around, but maybe a little dull to play. Slaanesh requires a little more thought since most of your units are close combat glass cannons. I play Slaanesh myself and I love how fast they are! Chariots, fast cav, monsterous inf and your Lord - they are all movement 10! They you can have your big block of Daemonettes with a movement banner, making them movement 7. So you got a really fast army which makes for a fun game and give you the upper hand when it comes to setting up fights and/or avoiding them.

Khorne are just shuffle and smash. With no magic lore of their own they can suffer a great bit in that department of the game. However, they got some really sweet cannon/chariots abominations!
Tzeentch are really random and can go either way. They rely a lot on the Winds of Magic, with most of their spells doing a random amount of hits at an random amount of strength. Also, if the enemy lives to tell the tale after the spell they get a chance of gaining a 6+ regeneration save, which can stack for the rest of the game! Yikes, Tzeentch daemons does not need to give their opponents any advantages, yet they do!

Most daemon lists usually have at least one unit of horrors with a level 2 Herald of Tzeentch with Lore of Metal (for that Searing Doom against units with an high armor save). They also have at least one Skull Khannon of Khorne, since they are really cheap for what they do. Beast of Nurgle is a great unit, they can be taken as a single piece or as a bigger unit. They are awesome either way and almost all armies have at least one.
Then people usually tend to bring a Daemons of Nurgle list. So a big block of Plageubearers,a Herald BSB, a Great Unclean One and sometimes the special character Epidemus.

What is important to remember is that you want to have fun while playing. So the questions is, which army style do you prefer the most? Running up to your opponent and try to smash their face in (Khrone)? Having a really random game (Tzeentch)? Being really fast (Slaanesh)? Being a relentless incarnate of death itself (Nurgle)? :)

thesoundofmusica
02-03-2014, 11:21
Just a heads up if you're playing in a smallish group where Death (and shadow to some extent) is dominant you will likely not enjoy playing mono nurgle as much due to Psun mowing your army down. Nobody enjoys always being up against a counter-list. But if its a group set out to have mostly fun then it shouldnt be a problem.

Edit: I know people are hiving Tzeentch a hard time but lets not exaggerate. Everything has a 5+ward rerolling 1s, every wizard(horror unit) rerolls 1s to channel, boosting horror unit size, unbreakable practically. Now sure I would also likely rate the Gods Nurgle/Slaanesh/Tzeentch but its not like you cant win with Tzeentch. Remember not every fight is "smash your opponents entire army".

Daenerys Targaryen
02-03-2014, 16:43
Edit: I know people are hiving Tzeentch a hard time but lets not exaggerate. Everything has a 5+ward rerolling 1s, every wizard(horror unit) rerolls 1s to channel, boosting horror unit size, unbreakable practically. Now sure I would also likely rate the Gods Nurgle/Slaanesh/Tzeentch but its not like you cant win with Tzeentch. Remember not every fight is "smash your opponents entire army".

Tzeentch is honestly a daemonic version of Wood Elves, except instead of bows you gets killer spells.

Their problems however are;
- LoC is the worst wizard of the 3 spell-casting Greaters! Yet give him the Eternal Beatstick and he's better than a Bloodthirster in combat most of the time! (how's that for dysfunctional?!)
There's honestly no reason at all to ever give him the Lv3-4 upgrade... Those pts nearly buy you the Eternal Blade, or else is already half the cost of another Tzherald/Horror unit. The +2 to-dispel that you sacrifice is made up in the end by the sheer amount of Channeling you'll get

- Tzheralds only have 1 really viable build, namely giving them Lv2 + Exalted Locus. Anything else is getting rather unreliable, or else in the case of the Lesser Locus simply isn't as helpful. (ie: you need to be losing lots of Pinkies in combat - something Horrors should be avoiding to begin with, and +1S to your spells means you gain more Horrors instead!)

- Horrors only work as MSU units of 10-15, as Lore of Tzeentch overall is crap on them. Sure Gateway & Firestorm are amazing, Pink Fire is workable, but Treason isn't inflicting any damage (and by extention growing more Horrors), Blue Fire is useless without 20+ copies of it (or loaded dice...) and Glean is 100% useless!
Last thing you want is to sink 300 or so pts into a unit that can do a whole whopping D6+1/Strength D6+1 hits per magic phase!

- Flamers are the worst unit in the game period. They're unsalavagable. Even dumping a BSB w/Banner of E.Flame and casting Enchanted Blades every turn isn't enough to save these guys! (or rather, the extra 200+ pts to do so, on top of the 240pts price tag of the unit itself isn't worth it!)

- Screamers are okay, but suffer a lot from being Warbeasts with massive bases. They also tend to melt in combat unless you can hit flanks/rear AND support them with something else.

- MoT Furies are 100% mandatory for chaff duty. (or rather, 2-3x 5 Furies in general are a must for ANY DoC army!)

- Burny Chariots are solid, but should always be used in pairs due to their fraility & randomness

- Soul Grinder w/Flame Cannon is a must for mono-Tzeentch.


Tzeentch is basically the game of 'keep away' while blasting with magic/shooting and only commiting to combat with a few key players.

fishound7
03-03-2014, 11:37
I predominately play Mono TZ. I completely agree that mono tz play like the daemon version of wood elves.

LoC being lvl 4 is completely viable option. Book + wand can create a retarded combat monster not early game but by turn 3+. The tome has extra importance to a mono tz list. I've lost games to bad RoC roll's which taking a eternal beatstick wouldn't have changed the outcome. In addition Mono tz benefits the most from the RoC table as almost all of your units won't be in combat for most of the game unlike other daemon lists. So the tome helps with this. Having cheap easy to cast spells on the LoC helps pump up the wand. I prefer Tz lore over metal to help pump up the wand and regen assisting screamers. Pink fire on your LoC is amazing to soften up a target when setting up the charge.

In lower point games tz heralds are amazing on discs and give you a poor man's LoC if the point level's your playing can't allow a demon prince or LoC. I've tried heralds with exalted loci in pink horror units and they seem to me just to be extra points to be given to your opponent and help with target selection on which pink horror unit they should kill.

Pink fire is terrible on pink horror's WAY better on a LoC or Tzherald on a disc. Treason is good on pink horror's or the LoC. Treason can be boosted to 48 inches which is great for your pink horror units which will rarely leave your deployment zone. Treason is a great cheap cast for your LoC to help pump up your wand. Treason is a very very good spell and arguably better then phantasmagora (army dependant). Glean is good as a cheap cast to pump up wand and is good against t3 wizards and support wizards. If your not facing much of that then default to the sig. Blue fire is pretty great imo. The boosted 48 inch range is great on pink horror's that don't leave the deployment zone and blue fire is good at finishing off depleted units late game.

I agree that flamers are bad.

Screamers are amazing and are a great source of point denial. I regularly field units of 6 screamers. Great at killing support units and can threaten units with flank and rear charges. If you lose your screamers its usually your fault and bad positioning not the units fault. I try to regen screamers with the tz lore from the LoC. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to try and buff up units of pink horror's which are extremely bad at combat.

I've tried 2 burning chariots for a long time. Granted the damage potential is massive but they are still easy points to get. I've been using 1 chariot instead of 2 so I can have more points for screamers which is less damage but more point denial. Its a trade off.

I feel that if your taking a LoC you need a soulgrinder as a cannon catcher. Demonclaw is amazing on the soulgrinder. Although viable I don't think the flame cannon on the soul grinder is a must for mono-tz.

decker_cky
04-03-2014, 16:08
Although viable I don't think the flame cannon on the soul grinder is a must for mono-tz.

Yeah...definitely not needed. Soulgrinders at base cost are great value. But for 50 extra points, an extra flame template is a worthwhile investment. The ability to throw down 3 flame templates per turn will eat through a lot of units.

desel
06-03-2014, 14:17
Thank you for your answers, very clarifying.

I'm really new to warhammer and i want to start playing with them however, i really don't know how to start with them. I got around $200 to start buying some stuff (i know it isn't a lot, but it's what i've got for now) So i would like to make principally a nurgle/slaanesh army (but i'm not closed to use something from the other two gods). So what do you think i should buy first for an army like that?

SuperHappyTime
06-03-2014, 15:35
For $200 dollars you can get a batbox and a few other things you want too.
Alternatively you can buy one of the "god packs" off of GW's site under army essentials for about 150.
Of course, you can always sell what you don't like on ebay, or buy what you want from ebay

EvanM
06-03-2014, 16:41
Just combine them all! (*gasp* people passing out) I know its a crazy idea and everyone likes the idea of doing just one but why not combine your favorites from the separate ones together, then..... JUST PAINT THEM TO MATCH. Why not? It would look awesome and be fun to play

Kallstrom
06-03-2014, 23:34
Just combine them all! (*gasp* people passing out) I know its a crazy idea and everyone likes the idea of doing just one but why not combine your favorites from the separate ones together, then..... JUST PAINT THEM TO MATCH. Why not? It would look awesome and be fun to play

The thing is, as I stated in my previous post, that Daemons rely a lot more on coherency than other armies. We have rules that alter our play style depending on which alignments we bring to the table. Mixing everything up could be fun since you can use the very units you want to field the most, it does however leave room for you to cripple yourself in a way since Daemons suffer greatly when getting those really unlucky dice rolls - something which can be mitigated by rolling with the punches and having your army more or less mono God'ish. :)