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draccan
02-03-2014, 23:51
Wondering how Tau defends against Orks in Cities of death (omega) battles?

How do you play, setup and defend!?

If there tons of ruins will it not be impossible to avoid being swarmed by the greenskin horde?

I guess most cities of death battles are about objectives and orks can easily swarm them and take up so much board space that Tau mobility makes it hard to both shoot and avoid getting charged?

Thoughts and tips?

Wolf Lord Balrog
02-03-2014, 23:59
Crisis, Stealth, and Broadside suit teams. Bring Burst Cannons, Flamers, and Smart Missile Systems out the wazoo. Your light suits superior mobility will let you jump out from cover/los-blocking terrain, shoot them up, then jump back out of sight. Add a few Fusion Blasters to take care of medium/heavy vehicles and you are good to go.

Surgency
03-03-2014, 00:25
Balrog has the right of it. Having a squad of Kroot for counter charges can help. Also keep in mind you may need to have a plan to throw away a squad or two to slow the Ork advance

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Doppleskanger
03-03-2014, 02:02
Well there's no doubt that a board with very heavy terrain gives a disproportionate advantage to combat orientated troops with low armour. Funnily enough most of my Crisis Suits are equipped with Flamers as at the time it was the cheapest way to get them set up the way I wanted, twin linked Pulse rifles... so that should do it!

ehlijen
03-03-2014, 03:40
Fly from rooftop/top floor to rooftop/topfloor (Jump, Jet, Skimmer units). Make those orks climb all the way up to get each of your units, then Hit and Run away.

Kakapo42
03-03-2014, 05:34
Yep, hit-and-run tactics, flamers, Stealth Teams and smart missile systems are the order of the day. If you take rappelling lines on Devilfish you can drop your Firewarrior Teams onto the top levels of buildings to rain fire down onto enemies below.

I would also recommend you load up on extra Pathfinders as well. In cover rich environments markerlights could mean the difference between life and death. Consider taking a Skyray or two as well, seeker missiles can be very useful in such environments.

draccan
03-03-2014, 15:40
Some good tips in here. I am not very keen on skyray as the missiles seems to do very little on the hardest targets (AV13 + AV14) and no use against ground troops (one shot and one kill is nothing against a horde).
I did forget that jump troops should be able to jump from roof to roof easily, assuming you mean I don't count going up and down in height with them...

Kingly
03-03-2014, 15:51
In City fight don't flamers allocate D6 hits again the unit as well? I'd say three suit squads equipped with three flamers causing 3D6 hits is pretty darn tasty.

Also we play our city fight with large blocks of difficult terrain and large areas of open expanse, so although they might get a decent cover save in some areas they're also quite often slowed down in others, and the 'Killing field' is a great place to set up fire lanes.

I love playing City fight in CC Vs Shooting games it's a great challenge.

I'm playing Friday Chaos Vs IG and bringing 9 Sentinels armed with Heavy Flamers, Whooooosh...

draccan
03-03-2014, 15:58
Isn't that tactic suicide as even with the 2d6" jump pack move after shooting you will be charged and obliterated next turn?

Kingly
03-03-2014, 16:03
Depends if he's just entered a building, and also if he is transversing rough terrain, Even if he has to travel through a door or window is fought right?
We play City Fight in that what's there is there, no "I'm just going to quickly cut through this sheer wall of steel rule" So it might be different in your circuit, but I'd suggest using real LOS and terrain rules, gives you more of a fighting.

Kakapo42
04-03-2014, 01:13
Some good tips in here. I am not very keen on skyray as the missiles seems to do very little on the hardest targets (AV13 + AV14) and no use against ground troops (one shot and one kill is nothing against a horde).

I wouldn't be so quick to discount the Skyray based purely on it's power against heavy armour. You're very unlikely to see vehicles with AV13-14 on all facings (especially against Orks), and the mobility of skimmers means it's easy to get side or rear shots off (remember, the missile hits the armour facing the firing vehicle, so you can markerlight it from a different direction and still hit vulnerable armour), and the indirect nature of them means the launching vehicle can stay hidden (and contribute cover-removing markerlights once it's seeker missiles are used up if it's a Skyray). You ought to have flamers and massed pulse fire for dealing with hordes, so the seekers can be saved for reasonable tough targets.

And if AV13-14 is still bothering you you can always scatter some fusion blasters around your battlesuits (or Piranhas if you're taking them). The built up environment means it's much easier to get within melta range of a target unmolested.

ehlijen
04-03-2014, 01:15
Skyborne and skimmer moves do not count vertical distance travelled towards their movement maximum. So falling 2d6" back and up into a conveninient ruin could well be enuogh to get you out of charge range (though you will be a more visible shooting target up there).

draccan
04-03-2014, 12:25
I still feel that running away 2d6 is very little with flamer crisis as the opponent moves 6" and then charges 2d6. It is very, very situational for the Crisis to be able to escape unharmed.

ehlijen
04-03-2014, 12:49
If you jump back 2d6 and go up two levels at the same time, the enemy has to follow with a 6" movement and then a 3d6->drop highest charge up two levels, ie 6" are used up just going up. That can be easily too much.

But yeah, flamers still make poor primary suit weapons. Go burst cannon, I say.

draccan
04-03-2014, 12:54
If you jump back 2d6 and go up two levels at the same time, the enemy has to follow with a 6" movement and then a 3d6->drop highest charge up two levels, ie 6" are used up just going up. That can be easily too much.

But yeah, flamers still make poor primary suit weapons. Go burst cannon, I say.

That's what I mean by situational. You can roll less than six inches on your roll, also a suitable building has to be placed six inches away.

I do agree with what is written about suits and jumping around. I realize now that hit and run can be an effective tactic with the suits. And burst cannons sounds a lot better due to range and number of shots.

draccan
04-03-2014, 13:24
Btw I am building a large terrain site for my battleboard (so far I have a cities of death box, an imperial sector, a bastion, a defense line, some tank traps and a shrine of aquila)....
I can't wait to test it out.

Marshal
04-03-2014, 13:59
I haven't read any of the cities of death stuff so I have no idea how missions are played, but I'm going to guess that smart missiles would be a god send in these situations. I'd also guess that a utility commander attached to some sort of suit squad with a high rate of longer range weapon fire to ignore the copious amounts of cover that's going to be given everywhere.

Kingly
04-03-2014, 14:08
It's not situational given that you're playing in City Fight, and my understanding is that you shoot the building with the flamer not the guys inside, then the unit takes D6 hits.

Then you run away.


He then has to traverse rough terrain to escape the building, then try and charge you, it's a perfectly great tactic, and even though it is situational as you say, you're surrounded by this situation as it's City fight…


Great thing is as well it's perfect for pulling a unit out of position.

draccan
04-03-2014, 14:10
Cool. Much to learn I suppose :)

Mauler
04-03-2014, 17:08
Some good tips in here. I am not very keen on skyray as the missiles seems to do very little on the hardest targets (AV13 + AV14) and no use against ground troops (one shot and one kill is nothing against a horde).
I did forget that jump troops should be able to jump from roof to roof easily, assuming you mean I don't count going up and down in height with them...

Don't forget that a Skyray is more than just a six seeker missile rack. SMS ignores cover and needs no LOS, a pair of markerlights can help in a pinch and it's still heavier armour than a Devilfish.

draccan
04-03-2014, 20:24
I guess a few pathfinders or markerlight drones in high places can help to place seekers on enemy dreads and trukks or even diminish lootas or other high threat units.

One thing to fear are those big guns with 48" range and ignore cover and indirect fire ability...
(I really have to deepstrike some suits on them, though they are often guarded by a blob)

ehlijen
04-03-2014, 22:31
That's what I mean by situational. You can roll less than six inches on your roll, also a suitable building has to be placed six inches away.

I do agree with what is written about suits and jumping around. I realize now that hit and run can be an effective tactic with the suits. And burst cannons sounds a lot better due to range and number of shots.

Not sure we're on the same page.

As a jet move uses the skyborne rule, you can go up or down any number of inches regardless of the die roll as long as your destination is within the rolled distance horizontally.

So if you roll a 9 and there is a building 8" away, you can land on its third floor roof if you want to.

And as an Omega level cities of death game was specified in the OP, the building density should be fairly high.

draccan
04-03-2014, 22:38
Not sure we're on the same page.

As a jet move uses the skyborne rule, you can go up or down any number of inches regardless of the die roll as long as your destination is within the rolled distance horizontally.

So if you roll a 9 and there is a building 8" away, you can land on its third floor roof if you want to.

And as an Omega level cities of death game was specified in the OP, the building density should be fairly high.

Exactly or a suitable platform on a building could be 5 inches away and you roll 2, 3 or 4. It is very situational and a risky tactic and even on an omega table it is situational whether or not you can find a suitable attack angle and there is always the risk that your dice roll is too low.

ehlijen
05-03-2014, 04:42
That is true, but on a decent omega city table, it should be easier to find a building to hop on to than to effectively fire from much more than enemy charge range.

Kakapo42
05-03-2014, 05:48
Of course, with the new rules regarding Crisis Suits (i.e. built in multi-trackers), there need be no reason why the two weapon options be mutually exclusive. Surely the idea would be to arm the Crisis Teams with burst cannons AND flamers to get the best of both worlds.

Chivs
05-03-2014, 12:40
It's not situational given that you're playing in City Fight, and my understanding is that you shoot the building with the flamer not the guys inside, then the unit takes D6 hits.

Then you run away.


He then has to traverse rough terrain to escape the building, then try and charge you, it's a perfectly great tactic, and even though it is situational as you say, you're surrounded by this situation as it's City fight…


Great thing is as well it's perfect for pulling a unit out of position.

City Fight was the expansion in 3rd edition, where you inflicted d6 hits with a flamer. Cities of Death (the more recent one) uses the standard rules for ruins, so you use the flamer template but can only hit one floor (this got subsumed into 5th edition/6th edition anyway). Intact buildings would be a different issue, but these are often rare compared to ruins.