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iamjack42
08-03-2014, 15:41
Hi everyone, this is the first draft of my list for Brawler Bash. I'd love to hear any thoughts on improvements.

Lords - 330 Points - 11%

Loremaster - 330
Book of Hoeth, Armor of Silvered Steel

Heroes - 584 - 19%

Mage - 150
Level 2, High Magic
Dispel Scroll, Ironcurse Icon

Noble - 300
Dragon Armor, Star Lance, Potion of Foolhardiness, Enchanted Shield, Golden Crown of Atrazar
Griffon, Swiftsense

Noble - 134
Battle Standard Bearer
Dragon Armor, Great Weapon, Khaine's Ring of Fury, Obsidian Trinket

Core - 750 - 25%

10 Silver Helms - 260
Full Command, Shields

5 Silver Helms - 145
Full Command, Shields

5 Silver Helms - 135
Standard Bearer, Musician, Shields

5 Ellyrian Reavers - 105
Musician, Bows and Spears

5 Ellyrian Reavers - 105
Musician, Bows and Spears

Special - 995 - 33%

19 Swordmasters - 327
Full Command, Banner of the World Dragon

14 Phoenix Guard -285
Full Command, Razor Standard

21 White Lions - 313
Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame

Tiranoc Chariot - 70

Rare - 340 - 11%

Great Eagle - 50

Great Eagle - 50

Frostheart Phoenix - 240

Total - 2999

I've had decent luck with this aggressive MMU-type list, and it fits my own playstyle well. I run the BSB with the Phoenix Guard, and the Loremaster and Level 2 in the swordmaster unit.

I'm considering dropping the Star Lance and extra level on the scroll Mage for more bodies in the White Lion unit, and I am not sure whether Shadow Warriors might be more useful than the Tiranoc Chariot. I've yet to play with more than a single unit of Silver Helms, as I have run a Sea Guard block and small archer unit in the past. I find those units can't keep up with the army and that their shooting isn't sufficiently powerful to make them worthwhile. I'm hoping the silver helms will complement the aggressive style of the list better.

Any thoughts, or suggestions on tactics with the list?

iamjack42
11-03-2014, 11:00
Considering an alternative Core set up:

5 Silver Helms - 145
Full Command, Shields

5 Silver Helms - 145
Full Command, Shields

5 Silver Helms - 145
Full Command, Shields

5 Ellyrian Reavers - 105
Musician, Bows and Spears

5 Ellyrian Reavers - 105
Musician, Bows and Spears

5 Ellyrian Reavers - 105
Musician, Bows and Spears

This takes away a hammer unit, but the extra Reavers might make the Eagles expendable, allowing me to add another Chariot, some Shadow Warriors, or more bodies to the elite units.

AM1640
11-03-2014, 19:11
Hi, without the High Elf book in front of me, can a loremaster actually wear armor?
If you prefer the aggresive MMU style then go with the alternative core set up. With the extra points I would go with more bodies. You are likely to run into some sort of large horde that you won't kill in 1 turn and will ned more bodies to soak up some casualties. I agree that 10 archers aren't going to accomplish much and would be an awfully small bunker for the mage. So, um, where are you putting your mages?
I do like that you should be able hold off deploying your combat units until after your opponents have deployed most of their armies. Although what will 5 silverhelms do that 5 reavers can't? I wouldn't want to send 5 silverhelms on a frontal assault against much of anything. Why not combine a couple of units.

SteveW
11-03-2014, 19:22
The loremaster comes with heavy armor, so he can make use of magic armor.

TS, your loremaster set up is IMO suboptimal. A 2+ as is not as good as a 5+ with a 4++ for the same points.

iamjack42
11-03-2014, 21:26
Hi, without the High Elf book in front of me, can a loremaster actually wear armor?
If you prefer the aggresive MMU style then go with the alternative core set up. With the extra points I would go with more bodies. You are likely to run into some sort of large horde that you won't kill in 1 turn and will ned more bodies to soak up some casualties. I agree that 10 archers aren't going to accomplish much and would be an awfully small bunker for the mage. So, um, where are you putting your mages?
I do like that you should be able hold off deploying your combat units until after your opponents have deployed most of their armies. Although what will 5 silverhelms do that 5 reavers can't? I wouldn't want to send 5 silverhelms on a frontal assault against much of anything. Why not combine a couple of units.

As SteveW said, the Loremaster can wear armor. I place the Loremaster and High Mage in the Swordmaster unit, as High and the signature spells are relatively short ranged. Additionally, the Swordmasters get a lot of mileage from the High Magic lore attribute.

I was thinking of the Silver Helms as chaff clearers/ character snipers (if I run them 2x2+1 I can get 5 ASF S5 attacks on a character in the front rank of a unit). Their other major purpose is to act in concert with the Griffon to to hit units. The Silver Helm Champion can take any challenge, freeing the Griffon to attack rank and file. Finally, with their 2+ armor they can protect their standards better than Reavers might be able to, and the Brawler Bash missions are heavily fortitude dependent. I am intrigued by your idea of combining the units, however. Are you thinking of a possibly running a unit of ten and a unit of 6 or so?


The loremaster comes with heavy armor, so he can make use of magic armor.

TS, your loremaster set up is IMO suboptimal. A 2+ as is not as good as a 5+ with a 4++ for the same points.

Since I place the loremaster and the High Mage in the Swordmaster unit he'll have a 2++ against magical attacks, a 6++ against warmachines, and a 6++ against non-magical shooting. The two 6++ ward saves increase if I cast any spells from high magic, and between his native WS of 7, and a cast of either miasma, Iceshard Blizzard, or Hand of Glory, he can often be hit on only 5s or 6s in CC. If I was to use the ToP, I only gain the full benefit situationally, whereas a 2+ armor save combines with any and all of those wards saves. I used to run the Book/ToP Loremaster, but found that many things I am afraid of would bounce off the BotWD anyway. Are there particular matchups you are thinking of?

Thanks for your thoughts!

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
12-03-2014, 00:38
The lack of symmetry in mini-lances of silverhelms really annoys me for some reason. Units of 6 is much more pleasing. I agree that you're probably not going to get much out of 10 silverhelms.

If the Loremaster is going in with the BotWD then I agree that the 2+ is the better choice. It really only leaves you open to non-magical Killing Blow, since the bulk of what wizards need ward saves for is death snipes (BotWD protects) and miscasts (the same).

I would perhaps caution against putting the banner of flame on the white lions. 2++ vs flaming is all the rage these days. Flying nurgle prince, for instance?

iamjack42
12-03-2014, 10:20
I would perhaps caution against putting the banner of flame on the white lions. 2++ vs flaming is all the rage these days. Flying nurgle prince, for instance?

This is definitely a concern. Do you have any advice about how to balance this against the need to have some anti-regen to deal with trolls/Nurgle? Is there a better place for flaming, or should I rely on magic missiles (searing doom, boosted fireball) for my anti-regen?

SteveW
12-03-2014, 17:37
High elf ways to deal with the nurgle flying DP are not in your army. Bolt throwers or a level 4 high magic(to regularly get arcane unforging). I'd suggest running a lord section with the loremaster and a level 4 high and then adding 4 bolt throwers. You will find a roll for all of them in every fight.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
12-03-2014, 22:09
Yeah, every HE army I see these days has 4 bloody bolt throwers. There's always SOMEthing to shoot at with them.

As for regen...maybe put it on one of your silverhelm units? You only need to do one wound to knock the regen off, so just apply them wherever you need it done.

iamjack42
13-03-2014, 11:08
High elf ways to deal with the nurgle flying DP are not in your army. Bolt throwers or a level 4 high magic(to regularly get arcane unforging). I'd suggest running a lord section with the loremaster and a level 4 high and then adding 4 bolt throwers. You will find a roll for all of them in every fight.

I certainly agree that the lack of bolt throwers is a weakness with the list. What would you suggest dropping to include them? I am at minimum core and dropping below three combat blocks really reduces the main strength of the list, which is threat multiplication. As for the level 4, a loremaster makes finding power dice for even a Level 2 caster difficult. Wouldn't a level 4 be a lot of points for very little utility?


Yeah, every HE army I see these days has 4 bloody bolt throwers. There's always SOMEthing to shoot at with them.

As for regen...maybe put it on one of your silverhelm units? You only need to do one wound to knock the regen off, so just apply them wherever you need it done.

Don't have my book to hand, but I'm pretty sure that Silver Helms can't take a magic standard.