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View Full Version : Theory: We're going to see more mini-codex books and free allied detachments.



The Emperor
08-03-2014, 22:15
Here's a quote of a post I made in the News and Rumor Discussion Forum regarding the upcoming release of Codex: Militarum Tempestus, a 72-page book which seemingly features an army built around Storm Troopers. Between that, the recent release of Codex: Imperial Knights, and Codex: Inquisition and Codex: Legion of the Damned before that, it's given me an idea about what we might expect from GW in the future.


I'm starting to detect a pattern here, though, not just in codex production but in the existence of "Non Allied Detachment Allies." So far we've gotten...

Codex: Inquisition
Codex: Legion of the Damned
Codex: Imperial Knights
Codex: Militarum Tempestus

In the first two cases they're digital and are only of models which already exist. In the latter two cases they're published and are of new models. In the first three cases they can be taken as allies without using up an Allied Detachment, and the same will likely hold true for the fourth as well. So what might this mean?

With the move to a weekly schedule GW's going to need a lot of releases to maintain that pace, and relying on their big name armies to do the job may not cut it, so we might be looking at a major expansion of the existing 40k Universe with "Primary" armies and "Secondary" armies, I.E. smaller army books made up of only a handful of units and which can be selected as allies without using up the Allied Detachment.

Now, most of what we've seen has been Imperial forces, but there's a good reason for that, as two of those codex books are based around already existing miniatures, so making them used up hardly any resources, while the fourth is based around a unit which needed to be updated for the Imperial Guard, anyway. The Knights, then, are the only option which was created by GW independent of supplementing their normal army books, but it's understandable as it's a model which all the Imperial armies could make use of. So that's why I think they started with the Imperium, as it's low hanging fruit, but I'm thinking they're not going to end with the Imperium. My guess is that, in order to maintain this weekly schedule, they're going to start producing mini-codex books for every faction, not just the Imperium. That most everyone else will gain access to a smaller codex force which can either form its own mini-army or be taken as a free ally for another army. This might be GW's way of introducing all those smaller forces we see in the fluff but which don't regularly appear in the armed forces of the main army books. So what might be the possibilities?

Chaos Knights
Chaos Cultists
Exodite Eldar
Harlequins
Gue'Vesa
Demiurg
Genestealer Cults
I'm thinking that the appearance of more mini-codex books along the lines of Codex: Imperial Knights and Codex: Militarum Tempestus, 64-72~ page books which feature only a handful of units, but which like the former as well as Codex: Inquisition and Codex: Legion of the Damned can be taken as allies without using up the Allied Detachment slot, will soon enough become the norm, as GW uses those books and the handful of units each book generates to fill out their release schedule.

So what do you folks think? Might we see GW releasing "satellite" army books related to most of the primary factions in the game, in the same vein as the Inquisition, Legion of the Damned, Imperial Knights, and possibly Militarum Tempestus? Books which represent smaller forces fighting for that faction in question and which is also available as a free ally?

duffybear1988
08-03-2014, 22:28
I think they will start removing units from each codex and give them their own codex as an excuse to charge us for another 25 codex. If it proves true that storm troopers end up in a separate codex to IG and I have to buy that one to use them as well then I think I might rage quit.

Shiodome
08-03-2014, 22:34
your theory seems to be "they are doing this already, from this i deduce they will do this"?

The Emperor
08-03-2014, 22:36
your theory seems to be "they are doing this already, from this i deduce they will do this"?

Nah, just that they're going to expand it a lot more, and into other forces aside from the Imperium.

Spiney Norman
08-03-2014, 22:47
Its just another example of GW straining to milk the last drops of milk from a cash cow that is seriously mal-nourished, they ceased to care about feeding the beast in order to get better quality milk or a sustainable supply of milk years ago.

The amount they are charging for the rules for a single unit differentiated only by its main gun (imperial knights) is seriously exploitative, and now they are hoiking random elite units out of codices and and charging premium rate for the rules for just that unit, it makes you wonder what the next step on the cycle is. I can't help but think the whole thing is going to implode soon.

murgel2006
08-03-2014, 22:57
Nah, just that they're going to expand it a lot more, and into other forces aside from the Imperium.
They are doing this, and have been for years at much higher prices; it even has a name: "Imperial Armour" and nobody has complained...
At least I hope to get codex Eldar Pirates and Codex Ulthwe, Codex Mimyra, Codex bla bla soon. As long as they are ...em... done better than Codex LoD, I will be ok with that. (Not buy it but be ok)

Besides the flood of codices has a nice side effect, people start to not buy all of them, so you can sometimes surprise your opponent with a nice rule, skill or equipment.

MajorWesJanson
08-03-2014, 23:13
Its just another example of GW straining to milk the last drops of milk from a cash cow that is seriously mal-nourished, they ceased to care about feeding the beast in order to get better quality milk or a sustainable supply of milk years ago.

The amount they are charging for the rules for a single unit differentiated only by its main gun (imperial knights) is seriously exploitative, and now they are hoiking random elite units out of codices and and charging premium rate for the rules for just that unit, it makes you wonder what the next step on the cycle is. I can't help but think the whole thing is going to implode soon.

Is there anything to support the conclusion that they are left out of the IG codex?

Losing Command
08-03-2014, 23:23
Calling it right now ; Codex Rhino. Where you can ally Rhino's to transport any army you like, and one Rhino can be Warlord :evilgrin:

Retrospectus
09-03-2014, 00:56
A few months from now, when that happens, will you be proud or horrified that you called it so early?

Losing Command
09-03-2014, 04:06
Horrified.

Hive Mind 33
09-03-2014, 06:19
Is there anything to support the conclusion that they are left out of the IG codex?
Of course not. This won't stop Spiney Norman to jump to his own wrong conclusions.

zoggin-eck
09-03-2014, 07:31
Frighteningly, I'd forgive much of the recent nonsense if they did make some new Exodite Eldar, Gue'Vesa and Genestealer Cults :)

Slayer-Fan123
09-03-2014, 07:49
I don't recognize the Militarum Tempestus off of those things listed.

Surgency
09-03-2014, 08:12
Nah, just that they're going to expand it a lot more, and into other forces aside from the Imperium.

That leap of logic is completely impressive there. I mean, its not like they've done non-imperium supplements, or added escalation things for factions other than imperial factions. :shifty:



I don't recognize the Militarum Tempestus off of those things listed.

This. When was this book printed? I don't see it on GW or FW sites.

The Emperor
09-03-2014, 08:26
That leap of logic is completely impressive there. I mean, its not like they've done non-imperium supplements, or added escalation things for factions other than imperial factions. :shifty:

Nothing like free allies who don't take up an Allied Detachment. That'd be new. Not to mention bringing smaller forces which haven't existed in codex books before to the fore.


This. When was this book printed? I don't see it on GW or FW sites.

It comes out next month.


Frighteningly, I'd forgive much of the recent nonsense if they did make some new Exodite Eldar, Gue'Vesa and Genestealer Cults :)

Yeah, it'd be neat to see a 64-72 page Codex: Exodite Eldar which can make a smallish stand-alone Exodite Eldar army, or which can alternatively be taken as a free allied option, one which is treated as Battle Brothers for both Eldar and Dark Eldar.

hazmiter
09-03-2014, 08:35
Im not too bothered with what gw do, its thier company, product etc.
The main issue that gw are ignoring, is the base cost of entering the hobby.
It used to be affordable enough that kids parents could say "yes johnny, we shall buy this for you so you can go have fun"
Now its ridiculous. Bite the hand that feeds so to speak.
On the origional post by emperor, it makes perfect sense for gw to go down this route, if it means that they sell some more stuff then
Do it they shall.
But its success depends on the affordability and utility, as well as other marketing variables.
Little johnny on the other hand will get told yes theyre pretty, heres some Lego.
Its fast becoming a hobby where there will no longer be new blood, unless they wise up and drop entry level pricings.

Spiney Norman
09-03-2014, 08:46
Is there anything to support the conclusion that they are left out of the IG codex?

If you look on the leaked WD product page the Tauros is listed as 'Militarum Tempestus Tauros/Astra Militarum Tauros' and the plastic storm troopers are listed as 'Militarum Tempestus Scions/Militarum Tempestus Command Squad'.

The current thought is that if they were included in the Astra Militarum codex as well they would have that included in their name like the Tauros does. It seems unlikely that IG would get a different set of STs, but who knows.

It might just end up being like the LotD where they remain in their core codex and get printed in their own book so everyone else can use them. Either way, it looks like GW is getting desperate for things to sell when they are producing codices for individual units.

Personally I prefer to spend my hobby money on models, not 30 books

Killgore
09-03-2014, 08:56
All this bitching but how many people 'have' to buy every mini-dex etc?

Especially if the rules appear in WD weekly like the knights did. Do you honestly need codex knights if you only want to field a knight or two? No.

Codex Black Legion and Farsight need only appeal to people who are interested in that army, they are not must buys for everyone.

So unless people have some type of obsessive gotta buy em all attitude people should lay of the criticism of GWs new approach to releases.

duffybear1988
09-03-2014, 09:54
The problem is that going by GW's track record this isn't where it will end. Very soon we could be getting codex land raider or rhino.

Plus price really is an issue. Look at the FW books as an example - for the price of 2 of these supplements you get a much bigger book with a lot more fluff, rules and units. Heck they actually have full army lists included. There is absolutely no need for these extra tacked on minidexes to cost anything like GW are charging. It's also making ot a complete pain to keep track of all the different rules that are coming out. It slows the game down even more having to check every individual rule the opponent claims they have. Even the ebook versions are a rip off.

The game is like a pig being bulked up ready for slaughter.

Majorbookworm
09-03-2014, 10:30
[QUOTE=Spiney Norman;7094246
The amount they are charging for the rules for a single unit differentiated only by its main gun (imperial knights) is seriously exploitative, [/QUOTE]

Considering that there is no separate product for the Knight with the melta gun, I doubt that it is exploitative.

Killgore
09-03-2014, 10:47
It slows the game down even more having to check every individual rule the opponent claims they have. Even the ebook versions are a rip off.



Well if people feel the need to check every rule I can imagine games would take a long time to finish. But then you could apply this to every codex GW have ever released for a 40K edition, and codexs have more rules than a dataslate.

Treadhead_1st
09-03-2014, 12:42
I'm going to repost my comment from the same thread:


However, I think that people are getting into a panic over nothing - aside from the Imperial Knight (a brand-new faction) no Supplement has provided something that was not available in it's parent Codex. The Legion of the Damned are in the Marine Codex, Crisis Suits/Riptides/Farsight are in the Tau Codex, Iron Hands are in the Marine Codex, Wraith units are in the Eldar Codex, Possessed are in the Chaos Codex, and so on. I fully expect that Storm Troopers will be in the new Astra Militarum Imperial Guard Codex, probably as an Elite unit; whilst this supplement allows Storm Trooper-equivalent units to be fielded as fully-fledged armies (so the Command Squad might not be an option in the Codex, but will be in the Supplement).

Heck, I am not sure if Scions are even a direct replacement for Storm Troopers. From the limited fluff snippet in the pictures released so far, "Tempestus Scions are a brotherhood of cold-hearted killers who operate outside..." I assume that the Scions are a new faction that operate outside of the usual chain of command - Storm Troopers do not (though they may not be under the direct command of the company commander/Lord Commissar/whatever on the field of battle, they still fall under the general control of the Departmento Munitorum and whichever commander is in charge of the theatre of operations where they will deployed). The Scions seem like a new human-elite crazy faction that reminds me somewhat of the Redemptionists. Naturally "counts-as" is going to open up while worlds of possibilities, for which I am very grateful - my Arbites might be able to fight alongside my Inquisitor and Sisters once more!

This stuff about "Codex: Rhino" and "GW are ripping Storm Troopers out of the book!" are completely unfounded hyperbole. The cost of the supplements is really the only debatable thing (in its own thread in GW General), there is no precedent thus far for any of the other things being spouted about the future.

As for the main topic of the thread at hand, I hope we do see more background-enhancing, faction-introducing supplements. There have been complaints for a long time that the background of 40K has become relatively static, rehashed every book and so on. Between the Scions and the Crimson Slaughter supplements this appears to be being addressed - although it is difficult to advance the setting past the eleventh-hour for fear of upsetting the players of certain factions, introducing more minor factions helps to provide new avenues for the background to expand without upsetting the established player-base (well, aside from entitlement issues). This can only be a good thing, and I hope that we do see things such as Harlequins, Exodites, more Chaos and possibly even other mentioned Xenos races like the Bargheshi (though the latter I see as quite unlikely, and we are more likely to see expanding sub-types of pre-existing factions).

AndrewGPaul
09-03-2014, 14:58
I think they will start removing units from each codex and give them their own codex as an excuse to charge us for another 25 codex. If it proves true that storm troopers end up in a separate codex to IG and I have to buy that one to use them as well then I think I might rage quit.

I always love a good table-flip' make sure you put it on Youtube. :)

As for "removing units from each codex", that'd be new if they do it with the Storm Troopers.

Surgency
09-03-2014, 15:13
This stuff about "Codex: Rhino" and "GW are ripping Storm Troopers out of the book!" are completely unfounded hyperbole. The cost of the supplements is really the only debatable thing (in its own thread in GW General), there is no precedent thus far for any of the other things being spouted about the future.

Nonsense. We should always get ourselves worked up and angry over random hyperbole. After all, how else is GW going to learn that we're mad, and not gonna take it anymore?

IcedCrow
09-03-2014, 15:26
A guy on the shady undernet told me gw was going to remove chaos from 7th edition next month. Told me they were going to replace them with $15 dataslates for each unit and you dont get to pick the unit; its random like football cards!

I got so angry i burned my house down with my models inside and took pictures to send to GW to let them know im super serial this time.

ashc
09-03-2014, 16:32
I doubt that it would be that the stormtroopers or equivalent wouldn't be in the new guard book because of this, but...

Ya never know! :p

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk

carldooley
09-03-2014, 17:24
I got so angry i burned my house down with my models inside and took pictures to send to GW to let them know im super serial this time.

as long as you don't ragequit the hobby and rebuild your collection, GW would likely applaud your decision.

IcedCrow
09-03-2014, 17:25
Of course i have to rebuild my collection. How else can i rage?

hazmiter
10-03-2014, 12:26
Iced crow, +1 for the amusing comment.

Plastic storm troopers huh.... ( grabs copy of all flesh must be eaten )

IcedCrow
10-03-2014, 12:42
I love that game (All Flesh Must Be eaten)

Cheeslord
10-03-2014, 12:59
So,... assuming this is going to happen (and I do get the impression GW management has to some degree let the creative team "off the leash" to release whatever they like - not necessarily an entirely bad thing), what can we see...

Imperial guard:
- Well, there are several noted IG regiments defined by their homeworld, e.g. Katachian, Necromunda, Mordheim (?), etc... one codex per world...
- Codex: penal legions (could squeeze some more stuff in there. Expand the penal legion rules and include those suicide bombs from way back)
- A "Codex: Dropzone" with expanded stormtroopers and more flying transports so everything in the codex can deepstrike from orbit
- Codex: Treadhead - nuff said. Tanks, with tanks as the warlord and more tanks in every slot. And Pask.

Space Marines:
- Obviously codices for all the well known chapters
- Codices for chapters about the time of the heresy (different tech/loadouts available, loyalist versions of some of the chaos chapters)
- Codex: Primarchs - a single codex with stats for all the larger-than-life primarchs, maybe with a few chapter masters for successor chapters thrown in (though they could get their own codex)
- Codex: Crusades - codices for the chapters pre-heresy
- Codex: Emperor - for recreating the siege of terra, details stats for the emperor as well as his elite space marine bodyguard.

Other Imperial stuff:
- Codex: Inquisition
- Codex Adeptus Mechanicus
- Codex Titan Legions (a logical step up from knights. The heaviest model must be the warlord.
- Codex Arbites ... who are these guys, some military wing of the administratum? Cant quite remember but rewrite them and throw them in
- Codex Custodes (see above. I think they exist)
- Codex PDF - for those worlds not blessed with a dedicated guard regiment of their own...ironically released as a PDF.

Tau:- Codices for all prominent Tau worlds
- Codex Farsight
- Codex Experimentails - Tau are always testing quirky weapons and new tech ... why not have a codex crammed ful of experimental suits and guns being field tested.
- Codex: Air Caste - lots of flying vehicles and air caste troopers with wings. I know this caste dont normally fight (except maybe piloting some vehicles), but we can rewrite continuity a bit to make them...
- Codex Manga: Tau like battlesuits. More battlesuits. More Riptide equivalents. At least one must be able to transform into a jet fighter

Orks: - Codices for all the Clans (obviously), plus Kult of Speed (as distinct from Evil Suns)
- Codex Stompas (kind of equivalent to codex knights/titans)
- Codex: Gargants - logical escalation from Stompas. Featuring the 1/2" wide "gutbuster" gun that shoots a 12" wide ball (extrapolated from Epic)
- Codex: Mekkboys:- full of wierd and whacky Ork inventions
- Codex: Ghazakull:- special units to recreate the Waaargh! Ghazakull - such as Ghazakull himself! Captive Yarrick! Doc Grotsnik!
- Codex: Grotz:- Grotz don't get enough love - they should branch out on their own with a sneaky little codex.
- Codex Snotz:- OK maybe a bit implausible. Definitely a "green tide", but one that tends to flow away from the enemy.
- Codex Angry Squigz:- the evil space marines have stolen their eggs; the squigs must hurl themselves forward to destroy the space marine base...

... I could go on but running out of lunhbreak so I'll leave it to other people to finish this list...

Mark.

duffybear1988
10-03-2014, 13:03
A guy on the shady undernet told me gw was going to remove chaos from 7th edition next month. Told me they were going to replace them with $15 dataslates for each unit and you dont get to pick the unit; its random like football cards!

I got so angry i burned my house down with my models inside and took pictures to send to GW to let them know im super serial this time.

:D give that man a cookie.

IcedCrow
10-03-2014, 13:07
I prefer chocolate chip. nom nom nom

Grocklock
10-03-2014, 13:12
The Storm trooper are in the new codex, the data slate just allows them as troops in the IG army.

GW is not in the business of bending you over a barral. They are giving you options to play the game. Look at it as the main codex as the basic game and the additional codexes as was to play them.

I cannot remember the last time they removed something from a codex to put it in its own, deamons of chaos got the own codex and additional models. Grey knights again got more models.

So if we are looking at trends of GW either we get a big codex with lots of new models called codex Storm troopers. Or we get a smaller one with Storm troopers tackle as troops in standard IG armies.

Surgency
10-03-2014, 14:20
The Storm trooper are in the new codex, the data slate just allows them as troops in the IG army.

GW is not in the business of bending you over a barral. They are giving you options to play the game. Look at it as the main codex as the basic game and the additional codexes as was to play them.

I cannot remember the last time they removed something from a codex to put it in its own, deamons of chaos got the own codex and additional models. Grey knights again got more models.

So if we are looking at trends of GW either we get a big codex with lots of new models called codex Storm troopers. Or we get a smaller one with Storm troopers tackle as troops in standard IG armies.

Don't say this to loudly, or the hordes of true (dis) believers will come streaming in here frothing at the mouth and chanting to their unholy gods

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

hazmiter
10-03-2014, 14:34
Codex custodes....
Oh by the emperor yes lets have the boys who make grey knights look like Girl Scouts!!!!!

Iced crow, all flesh is a blast to play :) nothing like a priest w a chainsaw who also happens to be a pyro.

On side note, adeptus arbites would tie in nicely with a few dexes, being a planetary law enforcement agency and all :)

The Emperor
10-03-2014, 16:33
On side note, adeptus arbites would tie in nicely with a few dexes, being a planetary law enforcement agency and all :)

I'd love to see one paired up with a codex for Chaos Cultists and Genestealer Cultists. Maybe have that release sandwiched between the other two, so your Arbites can fight it out with either cultist force.

Okapi
10-03-2014, 16:51
Sure, we can speculate that Knights might have been a part of the new Codex: IG, but is there anything substantial to back that up? Has anything actually been removed from any of the 6th edition codices? I've played variously Eldar, Space Marines, Necrons, Tau and Orks since 3rd and 4th edition, and I can't think of a single unit that used to be on either of those codices, but has since been removed (and maybe sold as a supplement).

murgel2006
10-03-2014, 17:01
Codex rhino?
I thought that at the moment it would be codex Wave Serpent?
A codex Landraider might appeal to many as well. GW will only make codices for units which are attractive to many.

In all Fairness. I would like the supplements and small codices IF I felt I`d get my moneys worth. Which is currently a slight problem.

AngryAngel
10-03-2014, 19:34
I think they will start removing units from each codex and give them their own codex as an excuse to charge us for another 25 codex. If it proves true that storm troopers end up in a separate codex to IG and I have to buy that one to use them as well then I think I might rage quit.

I really hope this release is just, they are in the guard book and this is for a whole army of just them. As if they did remove them for their own book, yeah that would annoy me. However as others have said, such hasn't happened yet.

I do wonder what the storm trooper codex will have to make it its own army, aside from that transport and of course storm troopers.

Edit: If they ever go to codex Rhino, or the like, I'll love to see how the GW defense team justifies that. I'm not saying they will do that, just a what if exercise. Like what would the nay sayers do if GW out of nowhere became balanced. I'd probably believe in miracles then.

Gungo
10-03-2014, 20:10
So far you don't need a single mini dex to field any of those armies as they were before.

Inqusition is still in the grey night book, legion if the damned is still in the space marine book, knights are in the white dwarf, and storm troopers are still in inqusition and guard books. Now if you want a primary army you need the mini codex except for legion of the damned which is allied only still and has minor changes. Your crying about rules you don't need. I don't buy every model my army makes, I don't but every rule book I can ally with why do you feel the need to buy every supplement or codex supplement.

AngryAngel
10-03-2014, 20:16
Is anyone saying you should or have to buy them all ? The OP simply was, does this seem to be the direction GW is going, and it seems to be a yes. Is it a good idea ? I guess time will tell on that one. There was one person worried on if the Stormies would be taken out of the guard book proper, which it seems to indicate that is not the case. However, the fear, however small may remain until the book drops and we see for sure. GW has been doing a lot of firsts, so I wouldn't be so quick to fault someone for being a little cautious with them.

ashc
10-03-2014, 20:21
To me, the mini-dexes are being introduced to sell minis that usually collectors of other armies wouldn't buy; you can see this with inquisition, legion of the damned and now the militarum tempestus. This is similar to the concept of dataslates too.

It also helps conveniently fill the release schedule in this ramped-up release speed thing they've done. :cool:

Menthak
10-03-2014, 20:30
You guys realise that there is nothing stopping you making your own rules? You don't have to buy the mini-dexes or wait for them to be released.

AngryAngel
10-03-2014, 20:43
Of course you don't. Guard are my, favorite army, so when I say I'll get it, it is just because reasoning. I don't expect greatness or feel I need it. This is the one army I'll get such for.

The Emperor
11-03-2014, 08:10
Is anyone saying you should or have to buy them all ? The OP simply was, does this seem to be the direction GW is going, and it seems to be a yes. Is it a good idea ? I guess time will tell on that one.

Yep, there's a possibility of GW doing some really fun stuff by taking that route. For instance, take the Gue'vesa, Tau Human Auxilliaries. That could make for a small army list which might be fun on its own, as well as serve as the source of a free allied detachment for Tau or other armies. What would be particularly interesting is the possibility that Spyrer Hunter suits from Necromunda were supposedly made by the Tau. Wouldn't it be interesting if they were expanded into military units which see combat? I.E. Full squads of Orus, Malcador, Yeld, and Jakara, supplemented by Human Auxiliaries in Carapace Armor and wielding Pulse Rifles and Pulse Carbines, and led by Spyrer Patriarch's and Matriarch's?

Much like the Inquisition, Legion of the Damned, Imperial Knights, etc., it wouldn't be a well-rounded list, but it'd be a characterful list, and offer Tau and maybe a few other armies some interesting units to add to their lists with fun rules and great looking models.

188953

188954

188955

Doesn't mean it's something which must be purchased, though. It's just a fun option to offer the player base.

Slayer-Fan123
11-03-2014, 08:54
The problem is that going by GW's track record this isn't where it will end. Very soon we could be getting codex land raider or rhino.

Plus price really is an issue. Look at the FW books as an example - for the price of 2 of these supplements you get a much bigger book with a lot more fluff, rules and units. Heck they actually have full army lists included. There is absolutely no need for these extra tacked on minidexes to cost anything like GW are charging. It's also making ot a complete pain to keep track of all the different rules that are coming out. It slows the game down even more having to check every individual rule the opponent claims they have. Even the ebook versions are a rip off.

The game is like a pig being bulked up ready for slaughter.
So we get a fun little codex for The Legion Of The Damned and that's how to react? Nobody made you buy it, and I think the material that came from it was worth it because you can field an entirely different army now. My dream of an over saturation of LotD squads can finally come to fruition and that's great.
As well, who cares if they release Codex: Rhino? It's my opponent they bought it, not me, and therefore they're gonna have the rules on them.

Konovalev
11-03-2014, 12:44
Aside from being digital, how are these new mini-dexes different from the supplements of 3ED et all? Codex Assassins for example.

IcedCrow
11-03-2014, 16:00
They cost a lot more which enrages people

Grocklock
11-03-2014, 16:08
I really don't think the knights where ever intended for the guard book. What happens ed is someone saw a fuzzy picture on line that said imperial knights.
Saw a big kit and speculated on which army it would go with and thought IG. (Which is an understandable line of thought as who thought they would be there own codex).
But when it comes out they have there own codex. People piggy back off of this speculation, so begin to think that it has been removed from the forth coming IG codex.

The problem now is that if GW don't put it in the codex people will start complaining that they removed it to make more money. Even though it was never in it in the first place.

IcedCrow
11-03-2014, 16:11
This highlights the whole issue with internet rumors. And illustrates how internet rumors become gospel which then become GW hate which leads to peoples' faces looking like my avatar.

Surgency
11-03-2014, 18:23
I really don't think the knights where ever intended for the guard book. What happens ed is someone saw a fuzzy picture on line that said imperial knights.
Saw a big kit and speculated on which army it would go with and thought IG. (Which is an understandable line of thought as who thought they would be there own codex).
But when it comes out they have there own codex. People piggy back off of this speculation, so begin to think that it has been removed from the forth coming IG codex.

The problem now is that if GW don't put it in the codex people will start complaining that they removed it to make more money. Even though it was never in it in the first place.

And people wonder why I don't buy wholeheartedly into every rumour that comes rolling down the hill :p

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AngryAngel
11-03-2014, 19:21
Yeah, no one said the Imperial Knights were for the Imperial Guard, if anything people said they were different just coming out a bit before them. Some people refused to listen and assumed the imperial knights and the Guard would be together.

That has nothing to do with listening to rumors and everything with controlling your own imagination and expectation. The rumors were good, and accurate, peoples imaginations putting more into them then was there is entirely on them, not the rumors.

There is absolutely zero wrong with listening to rumors and all wrong with how some handle them. As well GW do well enough to earn hate without passing the buck on rumors being what gives them a bad rep.

The Emperor
11-03-2014, 19:21
Did anyone really think the Knights were going to be part of the new Imperial Guard codex? The rumors seemed pretty clear on them having their own army list from the start. The only discussion on that subject I saw was whether the rules would be published in White Dwarf, a digital supplement, or would get a physical book. I didn't see anyone who thought it'd be in the Imperial Guard codex, though.

AngryAngel
11-03-2014, 19:26
There were a couple who wanted to claim it would be with the guard, though that was wishlisting and not part of the rumor.

IcedCrow
11-03-2014, 20:20
There was a rumor post on bols in jan or so that showed the knight and said it was the IG's new wraith knight equivalent and there was a discussion about it.

I know a few people (myself included) that were surprised to learn it was its own "thing".

AngryAngel
11-03-2014, 20:37
Well if you kept up with Warseers rumors, you would have been in the know it was never guard affiliated other then as an alliance choice. So it isn't the rumors fault, it is who you get it from.

Not meant to be hostile, in saying that, but if I get rumors elsewhere it is always buyer beware for me.

Gorthaur
12-03-2014, 01:09
I kind of like the mini codexes and supplements, however I think they overcharge for them. Regardless, i'd love to see Orks get a speed freeks or evil sunz supplement..or Goffs, same with saim hann...perfect opportunity to release a new jetbike (much needed) in conjunction with a supplement.

The Emperor
12-03-2014, 01:12
I kind of like the mini codexes and supplements, however I think they overcharge for them. Regardless, i'd love to see Orks get a speed freeks or evil sunz supplement..or Goffs, same with saim hann...perfect opportunity to release a new jetbike (much needed) in conjunction with a supplement.

Maybe Ork Freebootaz? Blood Axes would be neat, too. More militarized Orks who're more open to working as mercenaries for other factions than standard Orks.

Wayshuba
12-03-2014, 01:32
I must have missed something. The pics show the berets as Scions, not Stormtroopers. I personally believe everything will be in the IG codex, but the other one will be like the Black Legion or Iyanden codex (though they could keep that god awful ugly Taurox out of the IG codex and I wouldn't miss it).

The Emperor
12-03-2014, 01:37
Storm Troopers have been renamed as Militarum Tempestus, and Scions are one version of those units. As for Codex: Militarum Tempestus, it doesn't say it's a codex supplement, so it's probably more along the lines of Codex: Inquisition, Codex: Legion of the Damned, and Codex: Imperial Knights. Although I do agree that the Storm Troopers/Militarum Tempestus will still be in the updated Codex: Imperial Guard/Codex: Astra Militarum.

Grocklock
12-03-2014, 04:26
Yeah, no one said the Imperial Knights were for the Imperial Guard, if anything people said they were different just coming out a bit before them. Some people refused to listen and assumed the imperial knights and the Guard would be together.

That has nothing to do with listening to rumors and everything with controlling your own imagination and expectation. The rumors were good, and accurate, peoples imaginations putting more into them then was there is entirely on them, not the rumors.

There is absolutely zero wrong with listening to rumors and all wrong with how some handle them. As well GW do well enough to earn hate without passing the buck on rumors being what gives them a bad rep.


Sorry to say but yes rumours are the reason why people get all worked up over nothing. The example I talk about above. Is drawn from this very thread.

Rumours are great as they give us an insight into what's going to happen but they are not always true. Which can lead to disappointment as it spreads across he net.

There is a thread on this forum which talks about rumoured models which never materialised. I mean even the guys on here can be wrong.

And there is nothing bad about being wrong except much like at school rumours if they are off by a fraction of the truth can have a negative for the person or company involved.

IcedCrow
12-03-2014, 11:24
Well if you kept up with Warseers rumors, you would have been in the know it was never guard affiliated other then as an alliance choice. So it isn't the rumors fault, it is who you get it from.

Not meant to be hostile, in saying that, but if I get rumors elsewhere it is always buyer beware for me.

There have been plenty of warseer rumors that have turned out to be false. A rumor is a rumor.

Surgency
12-03-2014, 23:00
Rumours are great as they give us an insight into what's going to happen but they are not always true. Which can lead to disappointment as it spreads across he net.

Rumours give insight into what might possibly happen, not what is going to happen. And then only if the rumour is from a valid, credible source, which is nearly impossible to prove.

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AngryAngel
13-03-2014, 02:48
Well as the source here for the Knights and now Guard have been credible, I'd say rumors aren't always just rumors. The ones here were spot on. Dismiss it if you want to, but they've kept the community recently pretty well informed, any who chose to listen to them that is.

Grocklock
15-03-2014, 11:56
Well as the source here for the Knights and now Guard have been credible, I'd say rumors aren't always just rumors. The ones here were spot on. Dismiss it if you want to, but they've kept the community recently pretty well informed, any who chose to listen to them that is.

The guard rumour hasn't been credable as the guard book is not out yet so we don't know warher or not knights are in it of not.

Equally as discussed before just because they are not in the IG book, doesn't mean it was intended for the IG book unless GW says it was, it is still a rumour and joins the meany rumours on line which are unfounded, made up.

Surgency
15-03-2014, 21:44
Well as the source here for the Knights and now Guard have been credible, I'd say rumors aren't always just rumors. The ones here were spot on. Dismiss it if you want to, but they've kept the community recently pretty well informed, any who chose to listen to them that is.

rumor: a currently circulating story or report of uncertain truth.


fact: a thing done; the quality of being actual; something that has actual existence


Rumors are never fact, no matter how accurate the presenter may have been in the past. One of Warseers own rumour-mongers proved that a few years ago in a very public display (though i can't seem to remember his name)

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Poncho160
15-03-2014, 22:04
I think that GW don't have much choice, but to do anything but start releasing books and models for new or sub-factions, and that is because I feel that they have reached the point where they have nothing else to put into the codexes of their established armies and need to start expanding their range.

For example, what new units are they going to put into the next Space Marine Codex? They were pushing the boundaries this time, with the newly invented Centurians, but if their biggest selling army now has all it's bases covered and they have no new units to put into it, what new models are they going to sell, next time the new codex comes out in 3 to 4 years.

They have no choice but to start introducing new armies and models if they want to stay in business.

My only concern is though, how are they going to keep all these new books up to date when they introduce a new edition? They have historically been very slow at updating their rules and the problem can only get worse now they are pushing into publishing 20+ codexes.

hazmiter
16-03-2014, 01:47
Ill agree on the slow codex update bit.
However as a side note, a mini dex with 1-5 entries shouldnt be too hard to update for a new edition.
On the storm troopers note. The moment the plastic models come out i shall grab a box..., make good henchmen for my inquisitor.
However if they were to push the boundries a teensy bit for the space marines, a reclusiam and librarium mini dex wouldn't be a far stretch.

Brother Haephestus
16-03-2014, 08:50
A guy on the shady undernet told me gw was going to remove chaos from 7th edition next month. Told me they were going to replace them with $15 dataslates for each unit and you dont get to pick the unit; its random like football cards!

I got so angry i burned my house down with my models inside and took pictures to send to GW to let them know im super serial this time.

Going to one-up you. I heard that they are going to a collectible miniatures format, hence the need for the 'doesn't take up an allied' slot. You pay $60 for an infantry box and get 10 random units in it, $140 for two tanks or a knight. Rumor also has it that they will also stop marking the boxes Fantasy and 40k, so that you have to spend even more to get a cohesive army!

Oh, and this summer the paints go collectible too! $5 for an anonymous pot of color. Buy, collect, and trade with your friends!

IcedCrow
16-03-2014, 13:50
That did it i took a picture of abbadon on my neighbors porch while i burned THEIR house down.

AngryAngel
16-03-2014, 20:00
rumor: a currently circulating story or report of uncertain truth.


fact: a thing done; the quality of being actual; something that has actual existence


Rumors are never fact, no matter how accurate the presenter may have been in the past. One of Warseers own rumour-mongers proved that a few years ago in a very public display (though i can't seem to remember his name)

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Rumor, had been the existence of the Knight, and the currently approaching new guard book and models.

Fact, the Knights did come out and we've already seen pics of the new Guard releases. All we have yet to see is the new edition and our current source in 40k radios rumors will be shown pretty reliable. Yes, nothing is certain except for perhaps that everything ends. However stubborn refusal to accept that rumors can also prove to be facts is silly. Unless we're going to go back and forth talking of what rumor or fact actually mean.

You don't like rumors, great don't listen. Don't want to trust anything about any of them, also perfectly fine. However, those who choose reliable sources to listen to will be more knowledgeable about what is coming down the road. If people choose to add in wish listing to given information, then grow angry they don't work out, or that some information proves false, that is entirely on them, not on the fact that information was present and available.

Rumors can be facts that just aren't fully accepted as such yet.

Surgency
16-03-2014, 20:07
Rumor, had been the existence of the Knight, and the currently approaching new guard book and models.

Fact, the Knights did come out and we've already seen pics of the new Guard releases. All we have yet to see is the new edition and our current source in 40k radios rumors will be shown pretty reliable. Yes, nothing is certain except for perhaps that everything ends. However stubborn refusal to accept that rumors can also prove to be facts is silly. Unless we're going to go back and forth talking of what rumor or fact actually mean.

You don't like rumors, great don't listen. Don't want to trust anything about any of them, also perfectly fine. However, those who choose reliable sources to listen to will be more knowledgeable about what is coming down the road. If people choose to add in wish listing to given information, then grow angry they don't work out, or that some information proves false, that is entirely on them, not on the fact that information was present and available.

Rumours can come true, no one had denied that. Rumours are not fact, however, and cannot be fact by their very nature. Just because you don't want to accept that there is a difference between a rumour and a fact doesn't mean that the rumors you want to believe are fact.

Rumours can be proven true, but after proof of a rumour is shown, it ceases to be a rumour and becomes a fact. Until then it is only a rumour and cannot be anything more.


Rumors can be facts that just aren't fully accepted as such yet.

This is plainly false. Rumours can never be fact by their very nature. Once a rumour has been proven true, it ceases to be a rumour.

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The Emperor
16-03-2014, 20:13
Rumours are not fact, however, and cannot be fact by their very nature.

Of course they can be. If something's a fact then it's a fact. Someone not being able to verify a factual rumor for themselves doesn't make that rumor any less factual. That's like walking into a community of blind people and telling them the sky is blue. They can't verify it for themselves, and they might not believe you, but that doesn't change the fact that the sky is blue. Likewise, just because most fans didn't see the box of Bullgryns which one or two people reportedly saw doesn't mean that their existence wasn't a fact. It was an unverified fact for most people, but a fact nonetheless. A fact doesn't cease to be a fact just because someone disbelieves it.

And on that note, I think this thread's pretty much done, as nobody's actually talking about what this thread's supposed to be about. Yay for having the last word! :p