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Gradek
09-03-2014, 00:13
I am looking to start another space marine chapter and have narrowed it down to iron hands and salamanders. I like both histories/backgrounds about the same. Chapter tactics/special characters don't mean much to me as I don't play in tournaments. The paint schemes are both relatively easy to paint (although I am slightly concerned with salamanders, as I plan to use army painter primer in greenskin as the base and would worry about it being discontinued). Please help me by pointing out the pros/cons of these chapters and painting/modeling them (and concinve me that army painter won't discontinue the greenskin spray).

Minsc
09-03-2014, 00:49
Amypainters "Greenskin" is very similar GW's 'Warpstone Glow' (formerly known as 'Snot Green'). There is a very small difference in tone, but it's 95% the same.

As for Iron Hands vs Salamanders, I'd say it's up to you, since other players can only give you their own (often biased) opinion...so here is my (biased) opinion. :)

I recently started Salamanders, and when pondering on what chapter to take, Iron Hands where the first ones to go; I don't like their paint scheme (black and silver? Original...), they don't really have a specific playstyle, since their chapter tactics is just a (boring) blanket-buff across the entire codex, and I don't really like their fluff. Emo-marines that blame everything on everyone else? No thanks. If you like modelling bionic limbs and cyborg parts, Iron Hands are your go-to chapter though.
Also, it feels like more than half of every SM-player plays Iron Hands theese days. (Apart from myself, there are 2 other SM-players in my gamingcircle - both play Ironhands...)
Basically I feel that there is a bandwagon-warning on Iron Hands.

As for Salamanders; Their chapter tactics aren't as "powerful" as Ironhands, but at least it points you towards a specific playstyle (which I guess, can be both a pro and a con, depending on your own preferences.)
Green is mean, and I find their paint scheme much more appealing as well + a nicely painted Salamanders-army looks much nicer than a nicely painted Iron Hands-army imo. Swo...Flames for everyone! Remember that Salamanders have black skin though, which is quite unique amongst marines.
Salamanders also have really good fluff - if you want to play nice/friendly/human space marines, this is the chapter for you. No other Space Marines care as much about regular humans as the Salamanders do.
They also seem more uncommon now than they used to (I wonder how many SM-players that jumped the Vulkan-Bandwagon in 5th...), which imo increases their cool-level.

Pro for Iron Hands;
+ Better chapter tactics. (6+ FNP and IWND on the entire army including vehicles is ludicrously good, but it's a passive buff, so quite boring.)
+ They have their own supplement (if you're into those).

Pro for Salamanders;
+ Funnier chapter tactics. (Meltas and Flamers for everyone! Master-crafted on characters can add some nice flavour and lead to some interesting builds. Also don't forget to call your opponent a punk and tell him to make your day when he tries to flame your miniatures.)
+ Better looking paintscheme.
+ Cooler fluff/background.
+ Less mainstream.
(+ Vulkan might be alive, Ferrus Manus is 100% dead.)

So I vote Salamanders. :)

Edit; I should also yet again make it clear this these are my own (biased) views on the matter regarding Iron Hands and Salamanders.

Morrslieb
09-03-2014, 01:34
Iron Hands vs. Salamanders

+ Tougher Characters and troops altogether
+ Vehicles can take more punishment
+ Own supplement
+ Along with White Scars most popular chapter due to new rules (around here ateast)

- Salamanders are better clearing masses
- Salamander characters are better at offense due to master-crafted upgrade

This is the most unbiased answer I can give... but I vote for Salamanders, now and forever.

Gradek
09-03-2014, 13:07
I do like the flamer/melta theme (it would give me an excuse to get a predator infernus (I would go with magna melta option though).

Gradek
09-03-2014, 14:50
Also, does anyone have any experience with the FW shoulder pads? I like the Mk IV ones better than the 40k ones, but wasn't sure if they "fit" a standard tactical marine.

superdupermatt
09-03-2014, 14:59
Yes they fit plastic space marines. All FW pads are the same dimensions.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Zanzibarthefirst
09-03-2014, 21:08
I remember starting the exact same thread when the 4th or 5th edition codex come out. I chose Salamanders.

hobojebus
09-03-2014, 21:19
I dunno but i always thought the iron hands were kinda dick's.

Slayer-Fan123
09-03-2014, 21:52
I dunno but i always thought the iron hands were kinda dick's.
Dick's what? They were kinda dick's what?

Mit Gas
09-03-2014, 22:34
Personally I'd go with Iron Hands. Salamanders look great as well and I don't care about the rules much (both are decent) but boy, the iron hands are so dark, they perfectly capture Space marines and mankind in 40k in my opinion.

Unforgiving, cold, genocidal - a pure nightmare in real life but pure joy in 40k.

Plus I really liked Ferrus Manus. Also, I don't know how talented you are with the paintbrush but making a good Iron Hands force is easier than doing the same with sallies.

Minsc
09-03-2014, 22:41
Unforgiving, cold, genocidal - a pure nightmare in real life but pure joy in 40k.

That sounds more like Chaos Space Marines than loyalist Space Marines too me. ;)

Ironically, the Salamanders are the opposite; friendly*, warm and value human life.
(*They are still marines, they will kill you if they must.)

hobojebus
09-03-2014, 23:10
Dick's what? They were kinda dick's what?


dick

NOUN

• vulgar slang


1 man’s penis.



1.1 British A stupid or contemptible man.

Navar
10-03-2014, 01:45
dick

NOUN

• vulgar slang


1 man’s penis.



1.1 British A stupid or contemptible man.







Apostrophe

a·pos·tro·phe1
əˈpästrəfē/Submit
noun
noun: apostrophe; plural noun: apostrophes
1.
a punctuation mark ( ’ ) used to indicate either possession (e.g., Harry's book ; boys' coats ) or the omission of letters or numbers (e.g., can't ; he's ; class of ’99 ).

Mit Gas
10-03-2014, 01:58
That sounds more like Chaos Space Marines than loyalist Space Marines too me. ;)

Ironically, the Salamanders are the opposite; friendly*, warm and value human life.
(*They are still marines, they will kill you if they must.)

Well, their whole paranoia with exchanging their own flesh with mechanics already tells us that they are not exactly all that sane. I like that though, they perfectly illustrate what's wrong (and cool!) about the Imperium of Man. No idea what they are like now as I've last read about them in their Index Astartes entry, in other words, a long, long time ago and back then nobody was interested in them. It's unfortunate that they#re now popular only because of their rules.

If I ever had a loyalist army, I'd either use them or have a successor - they are just that awesome. Sallies are really cool too, kinda like the cool and less "uber-mega-supa-cool spees mahreen whoze hev theirz own opinion about thingz" version of Space Wolves.

Navar
10-03-2014, 02:01
I find their paint scheme much more appealing as well

This is your taste and that is fine


a nicely painted Salamanders-army looks much nicer than a nicely painted Iron Hands-army

THIS on the other hand is hogwash. A mediocre painted Salamanders army looks much nicer than a mediocre painted Iron Hands army, but if painted really well then they should be about equal.

Painting black on Power Armour is HARD, but with silver trim can look really amazing. So if you are concerned about making them look good, and are not a very good painter than Salamanders are an easier choice.

I am working on an Iron Hands army (and have been for over a year, see the link in my sig for what ultimately became test minis for my Iron Hands army (I transformed the idea of a Sons of Medusa Army into a full Heresy Era Iron Hands army.)

Anyway, I feel like if you are going to do an Iron Hands army then you should be prepared to do a LOT of conversion work.

What sets Iron Hands apart is the bionics. To make them interesting exposed bionics painted silver make all the difference.

Also with that said, I don't like the "official" paint technique for their silver in the "how to paint Space Marines" guide. The Studio's Iron hands have too much blue in their silver.

So if you want to have an awesome and really unique army then an Iron Hands army with lots of bionic conversions is the way to go. Otherwise I would say Salamanders 100%.

It drives me crazy when I go to a gaming club, or see a video or blog on the internet with Iron Hands that have been spray painted black and had some silver paint slapped onto their left hands and bolters with Red eye lenses.

Also a plus for Salamanders (If you have an Airbrush) is that the Anarchy Models Stencil System (http://www.anarchymodels.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=27&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1&vmcchk=1&Itemid=1) just went live on their webstore. And they have a really cool "Dragon Scales (http://www.anarchymodels.co.uk/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/_02___Dragon_Sca_530132cbca794.jpg)" template.

Minsc
10-03-2014, 02:53
This is your taste and that is fine

THIS on the other hand is hogwash. A mediocre painted Salamanders army looks much nicer than a mediocre painted Iron Hands army, but if painted really well then they should be about equal.

Feel free to read my entire post:


[...]As for Iron Hands vs Salamanders, I'd say it's up to you, since other players can only give you their own (often biased) opinion...so here is my (biased) opinion. :)

[...]Edit; I should also yet again make it clear this these are my own (biased) views on the matter regarding Iron Hands and Salamanders.

Navar
10-03-2014, 03:02
Minsc. I am sorry that I was rude and offended you.

I did not mean to in the least.

The point I was trying to make (and obviously failed at) was that, if you really do it right, then no Space Marine force will be any better than any other.

People complain that Ultramarine armies are boring, but if you have seen someone who really took their time and really turned the "Roman" thing up to 11 then they look amazing. (Versus spray painting with "Ultramarine Blue" and adding eyes and bolter colors for that ever important 3 color minimum.

An Iron Hands army is a challenge to both model and paint, but IMHO it is very rewarding if you put the time into it.

Again, please allow me to close with another apology. I am sorry that I wasn't more clear with my post. Please believe me when I say it was not my intention to offend nor misrepresent.

hobojebus
10-03-2014, 12:57
It's not the paint that makes smurfs boring it's the fluff and the fact they are all robots not able to be individuals without then being sent into exile.

Look at the uriel ventrus char from the books, he was interesting because he didn't slavishly follow the rules not because he was a skirt.

Minsc
10-03-2014, 13:05
It's not the paint that makes smurfs boring it's the fluff and the fact they are all robots not able to be individuals without then being sent into exile.

Clearly you haven't read much fluff about Salamanders.

hobojebus
10-03-2014, 14:08
Clearly you haven't read much fluff about Salamanders.

Well let's see they were a legion famed for completing the mission at any cost, one of their most renowned was an assault on a underground city they attacked with 25 thousand marines and left with a thousand which meant that when Cullen was found he could not join the great crusade right away as he had to rebuild.

As a chapter they live along side the people of their home world and are well known as the most humanitarian groups.

Their black skin is due to radiation interacting with their gene seed.

Well known affinity for flamers and meltas due to coming from a volcanic world and their titanic animal being the salamander which they hunt as a rite of passage.

And of course as vulken was a master artificer his sons inherited a passion for it as well which is shown from the high amount of master crafted gear.

So no I don't know much about them clearly...

Minsc
10-03-2014, 14:35
So no I don't know much about them clearly...

Your previous statement about marines being robots doesn't really add up considering how much you do know about various chapters, in this case the Salamanders.

Bias against marines, or just uninterested in general? It's fine if you don't like marines for reason X, but making a blanket statement about them is wrong; a mole is a mole is a mole - a marine is not a marine that's a marine.

Navar
10-03-2014, 19:43
Your previous statement about marines being robots doesn't really add up considering how much you do know about various chapters, in this case the Salamanders.

Bias against marines, or just uninterested in general? It's fine if you don't like marines for reason X, but making a blanket statement about them is wrong; a mole is a mole is a mole - a marine is not a marine that's a marine.

I am fairly sure he was speaking specifically about the Ultramarines, not Space Marines in general. So his comments didn't really relate to the Salamanders.

BUT, my comments were specifically about modeling Space Marine chapters, not about all of the fluff that surrounds them.

One of the things that appeals to me about the Iron Hands is the idea of them like T-800s, marching indomitably towards their foes; no mercy; no reasoning with them, once they begin that mission it will be a purge.

Also I really like the bionics, and the belief that their flesh is weak. They have a lot of character (to me, and I am biased.)

hobojebus
10-03-2014, 19:57
I am fairly sure he was speaking specifically about the Ultramarines, not Space Marines in general. So his comments didn't really relate to the Salamanders.

BUT, my comments were specifically about modeling Space Marine chapters, not about all of the fluff that surrounds them.

One of the things that appeals to me about the Iron Hands is the idea of them like T-800s, marching indomitably towards their foes; no mercy; no reasoning with them, once they begin that mission it will be a purge.

Also I really like the bionics, and the belief that their flesh is weak. They have a lot of character (to me, and I am biased.)

I was indeed only talking about ultramarines, specifically when i said:


It's not the paint that makes smurfs boring it's the fluff and the fact they are all robots not able to be individuals without then being sent into exile.

No where did i say all space marines, i said smurfs clearly indicating the one chapter most widely acknowledged as being dull as dishwater.

Minsc
10-03-2014, 21:21
No where did i say all space marines, i said smurfs clearly indicating the one chapter most widely acknowledged as being dull as dishwater.

Ahh, point taken and I apologize.

I'm used to "smurfs" being a derogatory word for all marines in general, not just Ultramarines.

hobojebus
10-03-2014, 22:50
Ahh, point taken and I apologize.

I'm used to "smurfs" being a derogatory word for all marines in general, not just Ultramarines.

But not all space marines are blue....*brain goes splody*

Dont worry about it, and fyi i am a space wolf player who's been going since 96, i easily have 2 great companies worth of the fuzzy bastards ranging from 2nd ed lead up to failcast.

Navar
10-03-2014, 23:30
But not all space marines are blue....*brain goes splody*

Dont worry about it, and fyi i am a space wolf player who's been going since 96, i easily have 2 great companies worth of the fuzzy bastards ranging from 2nd ed lead up to failcast.

Now Space Wolves, there is a chapter with a lot of personality and a lot of fun conversion/modeling opportunities.

To the OP, at the end of the day I would say you should read some fluff, and find the chapter that appeals to you the most. Are you going to rush through, or do you think you will still be in the hobby in the next 2 years.

I am coming back to modeling after having to take a lot of time away, and my philosophy has changed a bit, so now I take the long view.

Gradek
12-03-2014, 12:31
Last question. For the paint scheme, is it acceptable to go with the green shoulder pads with brass trim (like form Horus Heresy Book II) or should they really have the black pads with green trim. I don't want confusion as to what chapter they are.

Navar
12-03-2014, 16:15
Last question. For the paint scheme, is it acceptable to go with the green shoulder pads with brass trim (like form Horus Heresy Book II) or should they really have the black pads with green trim. I don't want confusion as to what chapter they are.

I would say go with what you think looks cool.

Green Scaley shoulder pads with brass trim should not cause any confusion.